America's Arrogance

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
WASHINGTON — President Bush secretly approved orders in July that for the first time allow American Special Operations forces to carry out ground assaults inside Pakistan without the prior approval of the Pakistani government, according to senior American officials.
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Pakistan’s Military Chief Criticizes U.S. Over a Raid (September 11, 2008)
Times Topics: Pakistan
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The classified orders signal a watershed for the Bush administration after nearly seven years of trying to work with Pakistan to combat the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and after months of high-level stalemate about how to challenge the militants’ increasingly secure base in Pakistan’s tribal areas.

American officials say that they will notify Pakistan when they conduct limited ground attacks like the Special Operations raid last Wednesday in a Pakistani village near the Afghanistan border, but that they will not ask for its permission.

“The situation in the tribal areas is not tolerable,” said a senior American official who, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on condition of anonymity because of the delicate nature of the missions. “We have to be more assertive. Orders have been issued.”

The new orders reflect concern about safe havens for Al Qaeda and the Taliban inside Pakistan, as well as an American view that Pakistan lacks the will and ability to combat militants. They also illustrate lingering distrust of the Pakistani military and intelligence agencies and a belief that some American operations had been compromised once Pakistanis were advised of the details.

The Central Intelligence Agency has for several years fired missiles at militants inside Pakistan from remotely piloted Predator aircraft. But the new orders for the military’s Special Operations forces relax firm restrictions on conducting raids on the soil of an important ally without its permission.

Pakistan’s top army officer said Wednesday that his forces would not tolerate American incursions like the one that took place last week and that the army would defend the country’s sovereignty “at all costs.”

It is unclear precisely what legal authorities the United States has invoked to conduct even limited ground raids in a friendly country. A second senior American official said that the Pakistani government had privately assented to the general concept of limited ground assaults by Special Operations forces against significant militant targets, but that it did not approve each mission.

The official did not say which members of the government gave their approval.

Any new ground operations in Pakistan raise the prospect of American forces being killed or captured in the restive tribal areas — and a propaganda coup for Al Qaeda. Last week’s raid also presents a major test for Pakistan’s new president, Asif Ali Zardari, who supports more aggressive action by his army against the militants but cannot risk being viewed as an American lap dog, as was his predecessor, Pervez Musharraf.

The new orders were issued after months of debate inside the Bush administration about whether to authorize a ground campaign inside Pakistan. The debate, first reported by The New York Times in late June, at times pitted some officials at the State Department against parts of the Pentagon that advocated aggressive action against Qaeda and Taliban targets inside the tribal areas.

Details about last week’s commando operation have emerged that indicate the mission was more intrusive than had previously been known.

According to two American officials briefed on the raid, it involved more than two dozen members of the Navy Seals who spent several hours on the ground and killed about two dozen suspected Qaeda fighters in what now appeared to have been a planned attack against militants who had been conducting attacks against an American forward operating base across the border in Afghanistan.

Supported by an AC-130 gunship, the Special Operations forces were whisked away by helicopters after completing the mission.

Although the senior American official who provided the most detailed description of the new presidential order would discuss it only on condition of anonymity, his account was corroborated by three other senior American officials from several government agencies, all of whom made clear that they supported the more aggressive approach.

Pakistan’s government has asserted that last week’s raid achieved little except killing civilians and stoking anti-Americanism in the tribal areas.

“Unilateral action by the American forces does not help the war against terror because it only enrages public opinion,” said Husain Haqqani, Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington, during a speech on Friday. “In this particular incident, nothing was gained by the action of the troops.”

As an alternative to American ground operations, some Pakistani officials have made clear that they prefer the C.I.A.’s Predator aircraft, operating from the skies, as a method of killing Qaeda operatives. The C.I.A. for the most part has coordinated with Pakistan’s government before and after it has launched missiles from the drone. On Monday, a Predator strike in North Waziristan killed several Arab Qaeda operatives.

The article continues to 2nd page.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/washington/11policy.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
 

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
:salam2:
I intended to post this under "news and current affairs" but accidently posted here. Perhaps a moderator can move to the appropriate section?

Thank You!
:wasalam:
 

carpy321

Junior Member
:salam2:

America has always been a problem in the world. Mainly due to his family. George W bush's farther went into iraq to find "weapons of mass destruction" doing so killing Unarmed muslims. George W bush then went in for the same reason stating sadamme hussain and his regeme is a threat to humanity as he is killing innocent people.. there is no weapons.. and george w bush has as many peoples lives on his head as saddame hussain had..
Many people argue wether the jihad out in iraq and afghanistan is right or wrong im not one to judge but in the holy quran it does clearly state that we are permitted to kill only to save our lives family or home before we do we must get the unbeleivers to try and embrace islam for years we have been trying this..
While america democrecy remains muslims will struggle to practise islam and praise allah. its been this way ever since i reverted. i can c this and im only 18 yet some people are so taken in by what western culture offers to think any the wiser
many people dont agree with my views but ure right.. america is a problem.
if anyone would like to discuss what i have just said
REMOVED
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2: Predators!gosh i wish the mujahedeen had the same weaponry these fools won t stand a week there before leaving pants off back to their island wallah! But sooner or later this is going to change in the future there is no other way and Americans are going to suffer big deal if they don t leave the world alone with their hegemony and stop policing it.Muslims living in the west must stop chasing for the hype of this world much, make babies show them Islam and let the ball role if they wanna have any weight on the political ground, the rest will come with the help of Allah swt to ride the world of these blood thirsty tyrants and their pet like slaves and apologists.

wassalaam
jameel
 

carpy321

Junior Member
:salam2:
The western society are scared.. they no that islam brings us power beyond all beleif.. for if allah swt be for us, who can be against us? islam grows hugely day by day..
Imagine if each muslim had a ring of "islam" around them and the western socity had theres the whole world could see islam is everywhere.. so there scared.. frightend.. they want to be the dominate people..

there will come a time wen western society crumbles and the world turns to islam and praises allah!!
 

karachi girl

New Member
assalam-o-alaikum

White House refuses to comment on rules of engagementWASHINGTON, Sept 12: The United States continues to refuse to talk about US military actions inside Fata with the White House saying that it does not want to comment on rules of engagement with the enemy.

But unnamed Pentagon officials, in interviews to CNN, BBC, Fox News and other channels, confirmed that President Bush had authorised cross-border operations, involving both drones and ground troops, inside Pakistan.

And a former Pentagon expert on Afghanistan, Col David Hunt, told Fox News that a particular unit of the US Marine Corps Special Operations called ‘Detachment One’ conducted last Wednesday’s ground attack in South Waziristan that killed 20 people, including militants and civilians.

Also on Friday, yet another US missile attack was carried out, this time in North Waziristan.

The issue was raised at the White House on Friday as well when reporters asked deputy spokesman Tony Fratto under what authority did President Bush order cross-border operations in Pakistan.

“I’m aware of the reports that you’re talking about. It’s not a story that I’m going to comment on,” he said. “And I’m not going to comment on rules of engagement with the enemy.”

His comments, particularly those about “rules of engagement with the enemy” can be interpreted as an indirect confirmation of media reports that recent US attacks were not “knee-jerk” reactions, as the Pakistan Embassy in Washington says, but are part of a new strategy for combating terrorists.
The official said that President Bush’s order included authorisation to conduct military raids against militants inside Pakistan without prior approval from Islamabad.

Another official told AFP news agency that the US-led coalition ground troops in Afghanistan had been “given the green light to undertake unilateral cross-border operations against militants in Pakistan”.

Lisa Curtis, a former senior adviser on South Asian issues in the State Department, told reporters that Pakistan’s inability to dismantle “terrorist safe havens” in Fata had caused the US administration to decide “that ‘enough is enough’ and they needed to take these steps in order to try to take care of the problem on their own”. The move, she said, could be attributed to Pakistan’s attempt to forge peace deals with militants in the tribal areas recently that followed heavy casualties suffered by US-led coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Col. David Hunt, a former Pentagon expert on Afghanistan, in an interview to Fox News, claimed that US intelligence sources, particularly CIA, had warned Pakistan before last Wednesday’s attack by US ground forces.

“We didn’t ask permission. We told them we were coming,” he said.

Col Hunt said US authorities decided to send troops into Fata after they concluded that they “cannot solve what’s going on in Afghanistan without solving the border region along the Pakistan-Afghan border”. Meanwhile, The Washington Post noted that the number of missile attacks by pilotless Predator drones in Pakistan had more than tripled in the past year.

The Post reported officials involved in the operations called the attacks part of a renewed effort to cripple Al-Qaeda’s central command. The drones were targeting top Al Qaeda members in the hope that they could lead authorities to Osama bin Laden, the report said.

http://www.dawn.com/2008/09/13/top2.htm
so depressing news ,feeling so sad 4 my country
 

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
:salam2:

Very depressing news indeed!

What can you expect when leaders do not serve the interest of the people. Pakistan military although boast in public "it will do everything to protect Pakistan's sovereignty". will just sit there and watch. So will the politicians.



:wasalam:
 

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
:salam2:

as a muslim and as an american, i am very troubled by what the US did in pakistan without pakistani approval. i'm not upset about this because it happened to a muslim nation, i am upset because it could happen to any nation. pakistan is it's own sovereign nation and has the right to deny certain activities to take place without it's permission. sadly my country really only sees itself as the only sovereign nation in the world. i could guarantee that if there was an attack on china's soil and that person fled to the US, america would declare war on china if they sent their planes and missiles to catch their suspect. why? because america is a sovereign nation. the american people would be outraged, so how can we expect for others not to be when we do it to them?
:wasalam:
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:

as a muslim and as an american, i am very troubled by what the US did in pakistan without pakistani approval. i'm not upset about this because it happened to a muslim nation, i am upset because it could happen to any nation. pakistan is it's own sovereign nation and has the right to deny certain activities to take place without it's permission. sadly my country really only sees itself as the only sovereign nation in the world. i could guarantee that if there was an attack on china's soil and that person fled to the US, america would declare war on china if they sent their planes and missiles to catch their suspect. why? because america is a sovereign nation. the american people would be outraged, so how can we expect for others not to be when we do it to them?
:wasalam:
:salam2:Akhi America messing with China! i d on t think so even for an example you should mention another country!These tyrants don t have Enough guts to Attack countries like Russia or China...they prefer showing their prides on small countries without weapons like Afghanistan and were the population is harmless,China would send them back to the stone age if they dared .

wassalaam
jameel
 

leon

Junior Member
Slow Now

Wow you all

Glad to see you are all fired up....but slow down now...........

I mentioned an article about someone shooting at the HOLY QU'URAN with a shotgun etc and how mad i was..................next moment the post replies stream in that i must ignore it and not look at such video clips etc etc etc..........

Now this post im reponding to fires you all up to critisism and anger about the so called mighty U.S.A...........and yes i wont get into this subject further tahn what already was stated and extracts from media posted etc...

Leave them be.............who are we to judge..............all we need do is believe in our faith and pray for them.............Allah is most forgiveing , mercifull and understanding and most definitly not blind , so as to see what they are up to...

They are the ones who will be standing before Allah on judgment day............so be rest assured thier time will come.......

So as a relative new convert to Islam............come brothers and sister..leave the politics to the politicians and the terrible wars to the soldiers......we are are servants of Islam...............lets serve Allah and strengthen our faith and spread it the world over......thats the only way of winning...........

Salam
 

TheKnowledgeSeeker

A Believer In Heart
Assalamu Alaykum

They deserve to be betray because they team up with Kufars to capture Muslims. Does not Islam tell to protect those who come to us for protection whether they might be Muslims or NonMuslims? This is what i been taught. I personally i wouldn't help someone capture someone else even it they are crime when i know for a fact the hardship they will go through. These crimes will be beat and God knows what else would be done to them.
 

carpy321

Junior Member
:salam2:
just a few things

america would never declare on countries like china and russia your right.. they work there ways with countrys that will be an " easy win" thats what they thaught iraq and afghan ect would be.. and look! our brothers out there are still fighting back for this country! in the last week 4 troops have died out in iraq.. thats huge specially wen iraq is " secured".

yes we should all pray to allah but we all just cant sit there and watch america do w/e.. if u saw sum1 in the streets beating a brother.. punching. kicking.. what would u do?? ud go and help!! why not do that with the brothers in iraq afghanistan? instead we all stick with our westernised lifes trying not to get involved in case something happens to us like we get accused of being an extremist! its about time we all thaught together and did something!

I usd to have doings with the military i soon left after becoming muslim.. i no for a fact.. they beat.. torture. urinate..starve and more to all our brothers out there.. and lets not mention what they do to our sisters..
Im sorri if any1 is offended by my views
[email protected]
:wasalam:
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

First America is never at war. Think. Viet Nam was a conflict; Desert Storm; fighting the enemy...the invisible enemy...to make a penny. I do not recall Congress waging war..this is simply conflict resolution. We keep killing and killing and killing and lying and lying and lying ...arrogance has a flip side: ignorance.
We have to keep ourselves informed and uplift each other. We have to support each other. We have to remember we are one soul. When they rape one Muslim woman..they have raped your mothers and sisters and wives.
I can write no more. forgive me.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

I will not make any comments as my father and my uncles and my family made an Islamic country.

FYI:

WASHINGTON - Orders President Bush signed in July authorizing raids by special operations forces in the areas of Pakistan controlled by the Taliban and Al Qaeda and undertaking those raids without official Pakistani consent, have roots stretching back to the days following the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

In an address to a joint session of Congress nine days after 9/11, President Bush said, "From this day forward any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime."

But even before that declaration, two key steps had been taken: One, Congress had authorized the use of US military force against terrorist organizations and the countries that harbor or support them. Two, Bush administration officials had warned Pakistan's leaders of the dire consequences their country would face if they did not unequivocally enlist in the fight against radical Islamist terrorism.

What Mr. Bush's July orders signify is that, after seven years of encouraging Pakistan to take on extremists harbored in remote areas along its border with Afghanistan and subsidizing the Pakistani military handsomely to do it, the US has become convinced that Pakistan is neither able nor willing to fight the entrenched Taliban and Al Qaeda elements. Indeed, recent events appear to have convinced at least some in the administration that parts of Pakistan's military and powerful intelligence service are actually aiding the extremists.

"We've moved beyond the message stage here. I think the US has had it with messages that don't get any action, and that is why the president authorized this," says Kamran Bokhari, director of Middle East analysis for Stratfor, an intelligence consulting firm in Washington. "This says loud and clear, 'We're fed up.' "

Even before the July order, the US had undertaken covert operations in Pakistan's tribal areas. Moreover, the CIA over the past year has stepped up missile attacks by the unmanned Predator drones it operates to hit targets in the region. That increase has coincided with a deterioration of the war in Afghanistan, where the Afghan Army and NATO forces have come under increasing attack from militants crossing over the rugged and lawless border from Pakistan.

But Bush's orders, first reported in The New York Times Thursday, mean that operations against insurgent sanctuaries will become overt and probably more frequent. A Sept. 3 ground assault involving US commandos dropped from helicopters targeted a suspected terrorist compound. Missile attacks by the CIA's unmanned drones, including one Friday reported by Pakistani officials to have killed at last 12 people, are also on the rise.

Precedence for the orders authorizing the attacks on terrorist havens can be found in President Bill Clinton's authorization of retaliatory attacks in 1993 (against Iraqi intelligence facilities) and in 1998 (against terrorist camps in Afghanistan and Sudan), and in President Ronald Reagan's bombing of Libya, legal scholars say.

The administration has debated the use of commando raids in Pakistan for years, but the tipping point came in July, as relations with Pakistan's civilian and military leaders deteriorated, intelligence sources say. The "kicker," according to one source who requested anonymity over the sensitivity of the issue, was two July events: the bombing of India's embassy in Afghanistan's capital, Kabul, an act that US intelligence officials concluded was aided by Pakistani intelligence operatives; and a July 13 attack on a US military outpost in eastern Afghanistan that killed nine US soldiers. The outpost attack was carried out by Taliban militants who had crossed over the nearby border from Pakistan.

The evolution of operations in Pakistan from covert to overt actions is reminiscent of a trajectory followed in some aspects by the Vietnam War, some analysts note.

Patrick Lang, a former Middle East analyst for the Defense Intelligence Agency, says the evolution in Pakistan is similar to what occurred in Cambodia during the Vietnam War, when US operations against Vietcong sanctuaries there were initially covered up.

"We initially crossed into Cambodia as covert forces, but that changed," says Mr. Lang, who was part of special forces that carried out the Cambodia operations. By 1970, cross-border operations against enemy sanctuaries were being carried out in the open. Looking at the evolution in operations in Pakistan, the national security analyst says, "We are letting [Pakistanis] know this could evolve into bigger things."

Adds the intelligence source who requested anonymity, "The message is to the new civilian leadership and the military, 'We have bought all these toys for you – if you don't use them and do things in these areas that are causing us problems, we'll do them for you.' "

The new orders reflect flagging confidence in Pakistan's civilian and military leadership to address the problem of the Taliban and terrorist havens, which are thought to harbor Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and his deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. For seven years the Bush administration focused its Pakistan policy on President Pervez Musharraf and his assurances that he was battling the militant sanctuaries. But Mr. Musharraf was forced to resign last month after suffering a crushing electoral defeat earlier in the year, and the US appears to have little confidence in the new civilian and military leaders.

"Musharraf was a one-stop shopping center for US relations with Pakistan, but that no longer exists," says Stratfor's Mr. Bokhari. Senior State Department officials have met with Pakistan's new civilian leaders, he notes, while top Pentagon officials have met with the military leadership including Army chief of staff Gen. Ashraf Parvez Kayani, the top military commander.

"The sense I get is they were given the runaround, and they came away from all these meetings convinced the leadership structure has become much more complex at a time when the Taliban are becoming stronger and the situation in Afghanistan is deteriorating," Bokhari says. "The feeling was the US couldn't sit by and see how the leadership sorts itself out."

Bush's orders authorizing cross-border incursions into Pakistan mean in a sense that the rules governing US special operations have shifted from yellow to green. The military will no longer need a presidential "finding" for each operation – and that, military analysts say, means the handling of forays into Pakistan will fall increasingly into military rather than CIA hands.

That has some intelligence officials worried that the consequences of stepped-up US operations in Pakistan – in terms of Pakistani public opinion and the stability of the government – will get short shrift. According to intelligence sources, officials from the National Intelligence Council recently briefed the Bush administration's national security team on the potentially dire consequences of US actions that could destabilize the government of a country with nuclear weapons.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0915/p02s01-uspo.html?page=2
 
my country is nothing but a chicken ....the US airstrikes are now usual in pakistan territories and the only thing u hear the govt spokesperson say in the news is * we will protect pakistans sovereignty at all cost* ........what a bunch of P******..........if Mccain becomes president we r gonna b their next target.......and they arent going to attack us, theyll jz kill us by making us fight between each other like they always do b4 entering a country and then theyll bring all their NATO troops too for the so called *peace process*
 

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
Wow you all

Glad to see you are all fired up....but slow down now...........

I mentioned an article about someone shooting at the HOLY QU'URAN with a shotgun etc and how mad i was..................next moment the post replies stream in that i must ignore it and not look at such video clips etc etc etc..........

Now this post im reponding to fires you all up to critisism and anger about the so called mighty U.S.A...........and yes i wont get into this subject further tahn what already was stated and extracts from media posted etc...

Leave them be.............who are we to judge..............all we need do is believe in our faith and pray for them.............Allah is most forgiveing , mercifull and understanding and most definitly not blind , so as to see what they are up to...

They are the ones who will be standing before Allah on judgment day............so be rest assured thier time will come.......

So as a relative new convert to Islam............come brothers and sister..leave the politics to the politicians and the terrible wars to the soldiers......we are are servants of Islam...............lets serve Allah and strengthen our faith and spread it the world over......thats the only way of winning...........

Salam
:salam2:

You do have a point in your post. Surely, it is better for us to be patience and be steadfast in our faith. However, it becomes very difficult just being a bystander, thus expressing frustration is only natural.
I don't see any negativity in threads like this, after all it is under news and current affairs mostly dealing with politics.

It is one thing to be steadfast in our faith, it is another thing to remain ignorant. We should be steadfast also we should be aware.


:wasalam:
 

leon

Junior Member
WOW AGAIN

To all that responded..................thanks

Its true this is an open discussion and everyones view with regards to this is welcome...........obvisiously we all are not alike...........although we believe in the same religion..........atleast trhats a bonus point by me.......

Never the less.....to those who made the comments of dont just sit there doing nothing and if you dont know whats happening in places like Afghan/Iraq etc.............well not exactly in those words..........brothers and sister's dont assume someone doesnt know about anything or isnt doing anything if you do not know them in person or even know what they do for a living..........?????

Ive seen more wars than most of you have seen movies.........and been working in Iraq for the past 3 years ....away from my family........helping the Iraqi private sector reconstruct there International Trade........Agriculture..........etc etc........

So dont assume some of us just sit and watch and read whats happenig in the world where theres war..........maybe ive taken this to far and appologise if i did.........

So about poverty/homeless/torture/killings etc etc etc...............ive seen enough to last me a life time ............thats why all i have the power to do is pray and pray for those in need..........

God bless you all and your families.......

SALAM
 

carpy321

Junior Member
To all that responded..................thanks

Its true this is an open discussion and everyones view with regards to this is welcome...........obvisiously we all are not alike...........although we believe in the same religion..........atleast trhats a bonus point by me.......

Never the less.....to those who made the comments of dont just sit there doing nothing and if you dont know whats happening in places like Afghan/Iraq etc.............well not exactly in those words..........brothers and sister's dont assume someone doesnt know about anything or isnt doing anything if you do not know them in person or even know what they do for a living..........?????

Ive seen more wars than most of you have seen movies.........and been working in Iraq for the past 3 years ....away from my family........helping the Iraqi private sector reconstruct there International Trade........Agriculture..........etc etc........

So dont assume some of us just sit and watch and read whats happenig in the world where theres war..........maybe ive taken this to far and appologise if i did.........

So about poverty/homeless/torture/killings etc etc etc...............ive seen enough to last me a life time ............thats why all i have the power to do is pray and pray for those in need..........

God bless you all and your families.......

SALAM

salam..

rite im struggling here.. your saying dont " assume" pple arent doing anything if u dont no them.. what do u expect us to do sit there naming every1? its a genral things some brothers and sisters do where as a huge majority doesnt.
Yes uve seen the wars.. so dont u think u shuld help end it?? by helping the economy in iraq ect grow atm is feeding income into the USAs hands therefore funding them to have more wars.. cos thast whats guna happen. the US of A is going to take a huge chunk of iraqs money and more brothers and sisters r going to suffer.. so yess u did a good thing but did u think about the bad it could cause?

Helping our brothers and sisters rebuild isnt the way because its just guna get nocked down again next air strike... itsl ike a moth.. it jst sits there flying into the lite bulb.. again.. again.. and again.. but if u switch of the light what happens?? its got nothing to fly into so it stops.. so if we stop america the airstrikes stop so our brothers and sisters can rebuild themselves
 

leon

Junior Member
COOL

salam..

rite im struggling here.. your saying dont " assume" pple arent doing anything if u dont no them.. what do u expect us to do sit there naming every1? its a genral things some brothers and sisters do where as a huge majority doesnt.
Yes uve seen the wars.. so dont u think u shuld help end it?? by helping the economy in iraq ect grow atm is feeding income into the USAs hands therefore funding them to have more wars.. cos thast whats guna happen. the US of A is going to take a huge chunk of iraqs money and more brothers and sisters r going to suffer.. so yess u did a good thing but did u think about the bad it could cause?

Helping our brothers and sisters rebuild isnt the way because its just guna get nocked down again next air strike... itsl ike a moth.. it jst sits there flying into the lite bulb.. again.. again.. and again.. but if u switch of the light what happens?? its got nothing to fly into so it stops.. so if we stop america the airstrikes stop so our brothers and sisters can rebuild themselves

Thanks for your honest and such careing reply...............im just confused at your comment about stop the U.S.A.........???? then let Iraqi's do the rebuilding themselves...

Well on paper it all seems easy ,but in real life its extremely difficult as to what you are suggesting..........

Anyway im not going to sit around debateing with you and others who think like you....we are all entitled to our views and opinions , and after all thats what makes TTI so interesting...

All i ask is think realistic without being extreme before posting comments of what should and shouldnt be done against persons or countries...........

On that note i love and leave you all...........take care of youselves and each other..........God bless and protect each and everyone of you out there.......

Salam
 
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