Another philosophical question

[Moadeeb]

:salam2:

Dear brothers and sisters,

I have a philosophical question you might want to answer. Subject X has two opinions about it, some scholars say it is Halal and some scholars say it is Haram and both groups back up their conclusion using Quran and sunna. Do you think muslims should be exposed to both opinions and left to choose? Or should the Halal opinion only be exposed since it would make life easier? Or should the Haram opinion only be exposed just in case it is Haram?

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[dna1987]

Salam alailkum.

This scholar from Pakistan that was visiting few weeks ago (first two weeks of Ramadan) told me:
"In such a case where there is different rulings from different mahdabs, it is better to follow the the ruling of the mahdhab you predominantly follow (eg, Hanifa mahdab). The reason being so that there is some organisation and order in your Islam, as well as discipline. It also prevents one from following something purely on their desires or 'comforts'."

He said it in Urdu, and I another guy translated.

Salam alaikum.

 

[Moadeeb]

Salam alailkum.

This scholar from Pakistan that was visiting few weeks ago (first two weeks of Ramadan) told me:
"In such a case where there is different rulings from different madhabs, it is better to follow the the ruling of the madhhab you predominantly follow (eg, Hanifa mahdab). The reason being so that there is some organisation and order in your Islam, as well as discipline. It also prevents one from following something purely on their desires or 'comforts'."

He said it in Urdu, and I another guy translated.

Salam alaikum.

Your answer actually raises another question, why should you always follow the same madhab? Actually there were no madhabs at the time of he prophet, no companions ever followed any madhab. Following one madhab only and always listening to the same school seems to be some kind of imitation. Remember all madhabs followed prophet Mohammad (PBUH), I say follow the Prophet not the madhab.

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[dna1987]

^ Not really my answer. I just repeated what I heard.

Yes, follow the Prophet (pbuh), but that's what each madhab does :S. Each one is suggesting how the Prophet (pbuh) would act or behave with respect to a certain thing.

 

[lions_den1]

:salam2:

Dear brothers and sisters,

I have a philosophical question you might want to answer. Subject X has two opinions about it, some scholars say it is Halal and some scholars say it is Haram and both groups back up their conclusion using Quran and sunna. Do you think muslims should be exposed to both opinions and left to choose? Or should the Halal opinion only be exposed since it would make life easier? Or should the Haram opinion only be exposed just in case it is Haram?

Salam

Moadeeb

PLEASE READ CAREFULY

This is my belief (not my opinion but from what the scholars have explained) If there are two valid opinions that are both supported by reliable authentic hadith and the example of the companions then it is perfectly fine to follow either one of the two opnions.

eg. After the battle of the Trench the messenger of Allah (pbuh) came home, took off his armour and had a shower. But then Jibreel (as) came and said "Have you put down your arms? We have not put down our arms!"

The prophet replied "Where to?" and Jibreel pointed towards Banu Quraiza. So the prophet told his companions "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not pray Asr salah except in the place of Banu Quraiza"

Before they could reach Banu Quraiza the sun had began to set- so some companions said we must pray Asr salah and obey Allah while other half said the prophet said we should only pray Asr prayer once we have reached Banu Quraiza. So they split.

Half prayed before the sun set where they were, while the other half missed their Asr and prayed it after they reached the place after Maghrib prayer. When this incident was citied to the prophet (pbuh) he remained silent. (ie. His silent was his consent that both parties were correct. Other wise he would have corrected the one in error)

(This incident is quite famous and can be found in Sahih Bukhari)

If you are talking about 'so called' difference of opinion reguarding music (when you said 'Subjec X') then let none of us be mistaken about the fact that music is compleatly HARAM!!
:astag:

It is sufficent to quote the messenger of Allah (pbuh) in a saheeh hadeeth that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: In my ummah there will be people who will try to allow (make halal) fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. They will remain haraam until the Day of Resurrection.’”

(Reported by Imam al-Bukhaari)

So after this only a mad man will claim that music is halal.

(For detailed fatwa about music please refer to http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng&txt=music)

 

[Ahmed ibn Ibrahim]

WaAlaikum Salaam, Brother Moadeeb,

I doubt that it's cooincidence that Br Lions_Den has quoted the above haddith. ;-) At the end of the day, it will be each individual Muslim's choice as to which scholar they listen to regarding Subject X, and they alone will be asked concerning that decision on the Day of Judegment.

Some things to take into concideration when deciding on which road to take could be: The authenticity (first-hand account, or my mother's friend's brother's uncle's sheik once heard from a traveller kind of haddith) and relavence of the Haddith, the relavence of the Quranic verses used, how many authentic haddiths support X1 compared to X2, what feels right in your own heart, any related fatwas (though the only infallible statements come from Muhammad PBUH and the Qu'ran), comparing X1 and X2 to the bahavior of the disbelievers or wrongdoers... that's all I can think of. =)

Asalaamu Alaikum

 

[Moadeeb]

PLEASE READ CAREFULY

This is my belief (not my opinion but from what the scholars have explained) If there are two valid opinions that are both supported by reliable authentic hadith and the example of the companions then it is perfectly fine to follow either one of the two opnions.

eg. After the battle of the Trench the messenger of Allah (pbuh) came home, took off his armour and had a shower. But then Jibreel (as) came and said "Have you put down your arms? We have not put down our arms!"

The prophet replied "Where to?" and Jibreel pointed towards Banu Quraiza. So the prophet told his companions "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not pray Asr salah except in the place of Banu Quraiza"

Before they could reach Banu Quraiza the sun had began to set- so some companions said we must pray Asr salah and obey Allah while other half said the prophet said we should only pray Asr prayer once we have reached Banu Quraiza. So they split.

Half prayed before the sun set where they were, while the other half missed their Asr and prayed it after they reached the place after Maghrib prayer. When this incident was citied to the prophet (pbuh) he remained silent. (ie. His silent was his consent that both parties were correct. Other wise he would have corrected the one in error)

(This incident is quite famous and can be found in Sahih Bukhari)

If you are talking about 'so called' difference of opinion reguarding music then let none of us be mistaken about the fact that music is complatly HARAM!!
:astag:

It is sufficent to quote the messenger of Allah (pbuh) in a saheeh hadeeth that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In my ummah there will be people who will try to allow (make halal) fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection.’”
(Reported by Imam al-Bukhaari)

So after this only a mad man will claim that music is halal.

(For detailed fatwa about music please refer to http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng&txt=music)

Dear Brother,

I'm posting a general question. Yes, you think that music is Haram according to your trusted group of scholars. I believe it is Halal according to the fatwa I posted here
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19103, please read it.
However, that issue has been discussed many times in the forum so please refer to the question only.

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[frenzy fish]

Your answer actually raises another question, why should you always follow the same mahdhad? Actually there were no mahdhads at the time of he prophet, no companions ever followed any mahdhad. Following one mahdhad only and always listening to the same school seems to be some kind of imitation. Remember all mahdhads followed prophet Mohammad (PBUH), I say follow the Prophet not the mahdhad.

Salam

Moadeeb

so your trying to say that anyone can study hadith? and decide which hadith suits him/her without knowing the science of hadith and the situation that the hadith was said by the prophet SAW. if we choose the hadith that we like and what we don't (from what i understand, that is what you are implying), then this is a mockery of islam and shari'ah. do you even know how much knowledge of hadith the four imams had before they introduced the schools of thought??? its in the thousands and for it they spent a lifetime!! us jaahils today learn afew hadith and think we've become alims and begin to quote and do tafseer of hadith like it ahs no value.
may allah forgive 1st me and the rest of the ummah. ameen.

 

[Moadeeb]

so your trying to say that anyone can study hadith? and decide which hadith suits him/her without knowing the science of hadith and the situation that the hadith was said by the prophet SAW. if we choose the hadith that we like and what we don't (from what i understand, that is what you are implying), then this is a mockery of islam and shari'ah. do you even know how much knowledge of hadith the four imams had before they introduced the schools of thought??? its in the thousands and for it they spent a lifetime!! us jaahils today learn afew hadith and think we've become alims and begin to quote and do tafseer of hadith like it ahs no value.
may allah forgive 1st me and the rest of the ummah. ameen.

I'm not trying to say that anyone can study hadeeth and choose what he likes, I'm saying that you can follow any scholar who is trusted for his knowledge about hadeeth and sharia, he doesn't have to have a madhab to follow. I think you shouldn't always follow the same guy. The 4 imams were excellent scholars and there are also other excellent scholars we could listen to. Why are you so nervous?

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[Mai moslemah]

:salam2:

Dear brothers and sisters,

I have a philosophical question you might want to answer. Subject X has two opinions about it, some scholars say it is Halal and some scholars say it is Haram and both groups back up their conclusion using Quran and sunna. Do you think muslims should be exposed to both opinions and left to choose? Or should the Halal opinion only be exposed since it would make life easier? Or should the Haram opinion only be exposed just in case it is Haram?

Salam

Moadeeb

Salam alikom..I have wrote about that question in another forum..I will post it here for you , it is long but informative

I was reading a book called "bearing true witness" by DR. LAURENCE B. BROWN, MD

One of the interesting topics he discussed is the problem he faced as a convert which is differences btw scholars. I will Quote from the book because I think this topic need to be understood


" one day I met a Moroccan brother on the streets of Cambridge, England, while walking to the Friday congregational prayer (Salat aj-Jum’ah). We fell into discussion of this point, whereupon he pointed to a building and said words to the effect of, “You see this building? Well, I’m a structural engineer. And I can tell you that all buildings are designed to have a certain degree of flexibility. This is necessary, for all buildings must be able to flex with the wind, with tremors or earthquakes, even with temperature changes. If a building is too rigid it will prove brittle, and the least little stress will lead to fractures, structural disruption, and eventual collapse. The same is true with religion. There has to be flexibility in a religion, and in Islam that flexibility is to be found in scholarly differences.”



the scholars of Islam do agree on all of the important issues – it is only the small, subsidiary issues upon which there is disagreement. For example, the scholars agree on the requirement of five daily prayers and the conditions of prayer, such as ritual purity of person, place, and clothing, most of the integrals of the prayer itself and the conditions that validate and invalidate the prayer, etc. However, scholarly disagreement does exist over some small, subsidiary issues.



It is a disturbing truth that during periods when Muslims were being starved, raped, tortured, and/or slaughtered in Palestine, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Kashmir, Burma, etc., Muslims in American and England were arguing about whether they should line up for prayer by the tips of their toes, by the ankles, or by the heels of their feet.



Having said all that, a person naturally assumes there to be only one correct answer to any one question, and desires to rectify any differences that do exist. Sometimes this is possible, and sometimes not, but 100% of the time it is simply not necessary, for the essentials of the Islamic religion are clear and agreed upon by ijma (consensus) of the Sunni scholars, and disagreement over the small subsidiary elements is easily excused on the basis of the Islamic teaching that actions are judged by intention (authentic hadith relates that the prophet taught, “Actions are by intention, and every person will receive what he intended.”), in combination with the relative insignificance of such differences.



Mistakes may be made, but in the Islamic religion the qualifications of the person making the mistake comes into consideration. Mistakes made by scholars stand to be excused by Allah Most High, whereas mistakes in legal judgment made by laity stand to be punished. The above does not imply that a person can not, or should not, question the evidence to support any scholar’s particular judgment. No…such questions are usually well received, so long as the student asks in the process of seeking knowledge, and not in an attempt to challenge or disprove the scholar



But what if a mistake is made?



So if scholars determine fiqh according to their abilities (without shirking their duties and without overstepping the limits of their scholarship), and if laity follow the fiqh laid down by respected scholars (following the opinion of those scholars whom they judge most knowledgeable and trustworthy, and not making a mockery of the process by seeking the opinion they desire, wherever they can find it), then everybody would be correct in process, nobody would be blameworthy, and all can be relaxed, happy, and at peace with both their family in faith and Allah.



Islam teaches that Allah assigns a scholar the reward of one good deed for exerting him- or herself in arriving at a judgment, and the reward of another good deed for being correct. Hence, scholars are rewarded with two good deeds if correct in judgment, and one good deed if incorrect, simply for having fulfilled the responsibility of asserting the knowledge with which they were entrusted "

 

[Mai moslemah]

One example of scholars differences is the Four imams who established the four Islamic school of fiqh

But the 4 imams had great tolerance btw each other, sadly those who follow them does not have that much of tolerance and open mind

In Amr khaled program about coexistence he had an interview with a specialized scholar of Islamic jurisprudence, Dr. Osama Refa'y, the Mufti of A'kkar in Northern Lebanon, Amr khaled asked him this question:

Mr. Amr Khaled:

Speaking of differences, I would like to refer to the many youths who sometimes accept only one opinion and absolutely refuse to listen to other opinions.


Dr. Osama Refa'y:

This is one form of fanaticism. Fanaticism may be a blind-folded support to one school or may take the form of relentless opposition to other schools or sects.


The four Imams agreed upon all the issues related to the fundamentals of the Islamic creed, while they disagreed upon the branches of Islamic jurisprudence . Nevertheless, their disagreement is necessary and a mercy from Allah (Glorified and Sublime be He) on this ummah. When a man came to write a book on the differences of the jurisprudents, Imam Ahmad asked him to call it the “Book of Abundance”.


Now, let us return to our major point; the reasons of the disagreements between the Imams. There are three main reasons:

First, the nature of the human soul that varies from one person to the other. Indeed, people are different in their abilities, cultures, and styles.

Second, the nature of the texts of the Glorious Qur'an and sunnah (the Prophet’s tradition), which may hold more than one meaning.

Third, the differences which exist in customs and traditions.

To further apprehend the nature of the differences between the four imams, let us reflect on the Prophet’s (SAWS) words when he said that the buyer and the seller have the option of canceling or confirming the deal unless they separate.


Abu-Hanifa and Malik considered that the contract is fulfilled upon oral agreement. Meanwhile ash-Shafi'y and Imam Ahmad stipulated the physical separation of both contractors in order to consider the contract fully fulfilled. Abu-Hanifa then asked ash-Shafi'y, 'What if both of the contractors were in the same boat in the middle of the sea, how come they get separated physically?' ash-Shafi'y then reconsidered his view of the hadith based on Abu-Hanifa's logical interpretation.’

 

[Moadeeb]

Sister Mai,

Thank you for your elaborate answer, very well presented. Yes, we do need to have more tolerance and more respect to scholars who have a different opinion especially if it is not about a basic issue.

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[uskupi]

assalam alaikum...madheb's (the four of them ) are like 4 fields of flowers for the muslims and they can pick up wich flower they wish ...that is my opinion about madhab.Muslim can choose any opinion is near to his understanding about the geven issue...and that is the beauty of islam

 

[a_muslimah86]

:salam2:

and what if you don't want to follow any of these madh'habs
are you a kafir then???

 

[uskupi]

assalam alaikum ... no you are not kafir ,actualy it depends what opinion(or to be more precise fatwa) of those madhabth you are not folowing ,,,

 

[Moadeeb]

:salam2:

and what if you don't want to follow any of these madh'habs
are you a kafir then???

Not following a specific Madh'hab certainly doesn't make you a kafir. Lots of Muslims don't read about Madh'habs, they just follow the Islamic belief and actions. Companions never followed a specific Madh'hab, there were no Madh'habs at their time.

Salam

Moadeeb

 

[IslamIsLight]

Dear Brother,

I'm posting a general question. Yes, you think that music is Haram according to your trusted group of scholars. I believe it is Halal according to the fatwa I posted here
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19103, please read it.
However, that issue has been discussed many times in the forum so please refer to the question only.

Salam

Moadeeb

salam aleikum
brother u can believe whatever u want to believe, but Qardawi is not the only scholar on the Earth
I won't start with this issue again

waaleikum salam

 

[Moadeeb]

salam aleikum
brother u can believe whatever u want to believe, but Qardawi is not the only scholar on the Earth
I won't start with this issue again

waaleikum salam

Who said he is? But what about the question I posted? Won't you participate?

 

[a_muslimah86]

Not following a specific Madh'hab certainly doesn't make you a kafir. Lots of Muslims don't read about Madh'habs, they just follow the Islamic belief and actions. Companions never followed a specific Madh'hab, there were no Madh'habs at their time.

Salam

Moadeeb

aha!
i've always felt weird about the madh'hab talks that i hear..because i have certain opinions concerning the issue
and i honestly don't follow one..
for the simple reason that you wrote..
that the companions and early muslims did not follow any and found the answers to their deen through the Qura'an and the Sunnah
and i mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE (SCHOLAR AND FOLLOWER WISE)
but..
Mohammad Ibn Abdiallah (saw) is the only man worth following to the letter
and should somebody come and say to me..well these are knowledgeable scholars..who studied the hadith..and the Qura'an..and all that..which is completely understood..and i totally acknowledge and respect the scholars' efforts towards the deen..
but i would still say..
Allah has given us common-sense and the potential to sit down..*research*..ask questions..and clarify what puzzles us
so anybody can acquire that knowledge if they have the intent and work towards it!

should my words offend anyone..again i would like to say..i did not mean to do so..but i am entitled to have opinions..and entitled just as much to express them!

 

[Moadeeb]

aha!
i've always felt weird about the madh'hab talks that i hear..because i have certain opinions concerning the issue
and i honestly don't follow one..
for the simple reason that you wrote..
that the companions and early muslims did not follow any and found the answers to their deen through the Qura'an and the Sunnah
and i mean ABSOLUTELY NO DISRESPECT TO ANYONE (SCHOLAR AND FOLLOWER WISE)
but..
Mohammad Ibn Abdiallah (saw) is the only man worth following to the letter
and should somebody come and say to me..well these are knowledgeable scholars..who studied the hadith..and the Qura'an..and all that..which is completely understood..and i totally acknowledge and respect the scholars' efforts towards the deen..
but i would still say..
Allah has given us common-sense and the potential to sit down..*research*..ask questions..and clarify what puzzles us
so anybody can acquire that knowledge if they have the intent and work towards it!

should my words offend anyone..again i would like to say..i did not mean to do so..but i am entitled to have opinions..and entitled just as much to express them!

Sister,

I would say that you have a lot of truth in what you are saying but still a muslim always needs a scholar to back up what he is doing. Believe me verses and hadeeths are not always clear as people might think. You always need someone who has enough knowledge about the matter to guide you. However, you needn't follow a specific scholar or school of thought, although sometimes we usually find a scholar we trust and follow most of the time. However, it shouldn't be always that guy. That's what I think.

Salam

Moadeeb