Arn't sunnis transgressing?

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by saif, Feb 1, 2016.

  1. saif
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    Assalamu alaikum,

    I don't really like discussing any sectarian issue on this forum but for sometime I am noticing, that the Sunnis, and especially the arab Sunnis (the big majority of whom is Salafiah) are transgressing all limits in dealing with Shia MUSLIMS (I have capitalized it because I do consider them muslims and apparently the big majority of Salafiah does not).

    Unfortunately, making terrorism halaal is a modern day fitnah among Salafiah and as I can see, shia have not made terrorism halal on themselves in response. However, what hurts me more is a silent support of killing of the shia. The terrorists are a few but silent supporters of terrorists killing the shia is very wide spread in sunnis (and of course much more so among Salafiah).

    I am here to remind all muslims that Quran teaches us, that even the enmity of a nation should not keep us from doing justice. All of us should think, aren't we transgressing in our enmity of Iran in general and shia in particular?

    The immediate reason for this thread was the following news:

    Bomb attacks near Hazrat Zainab's shrine in Syria kill 50, wound 110
    AFP — Updated about 16 hours ago

    [​IMG] Residents and soldiers inspect damage after the suicide attack. —Reuters
    DAMASCUS: At least 50 people were killed and 110 wounded on Sunday in three bomb blasts near the revered shrine of Hazrat Zainab (RA) outside the Syrian capital Damascus, state media said.
    State news agency SANA said the first blast was caused by a car bomb that detonated at a bus station near the shrine.
    It said two suicide bombers then detonated their explosive belts when people gathered at the scene.
    The eyewitnesses said the blasts caused massive damage, shattering windows and ripping a huge crater in the road.
    Smoke rose from the twisted carcasses of more than a dozen cars and a bus damaged in the blasts, as ambulances ferried away the wounded and firefighters worked to put out blazes started by the bombings.
    The shrine south of the capital contains the grave of a granddaughter of the Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and is particularly revered as a pilgrimage site by Muslims.
    It has continued to attract pilgrims from Syria and beyond, particularly from Iran, Lebanon, and Iraq, throughout the war, and has been targeted in previous bomb attacks.
    In February 2015, two suicide attacks killed four people and wounded 13 at a checkpoint near the shrine.
    Also that month, a blast ripped through a bus carrying Lebanese pilgrims headed to Hazrat Zainab (RA), killing at least nine people, in an attack claimed by Al-Qaeda affiliate Al-Nusra Front.
    There was no immediate claim of responsibility for Sunday's attack.
    The area around the shrine is heavily secured with regime checkpoints set up hundreds of metres away to prevent vehicles from getting close to the shrine of Hazrat Zainab (RA).
    According to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, members of Lebanon's powerful group Hezbollah are among those deployed at the checkpoints.
    The Britain-based monitor said 47 people were killed in the blasts, including a car bomb that targeted a checkpoint, and included non-Syrian militants without specifying their nationalities.
    Hezbollah is a staunch ally of Syria's President Bashar al-Assad and has dispatched fighters to bolster his troops against the uprising that began in March 2011 with anti-government protests.
    More than 260,000 people have been killed in Syria's conflict, which has also displaced over half the country's population internally and abroad.

    Source: http://www.dawn.com/news/1236565/bomb-attacks-near-hazrat-zainabs-shrine-in-syria-kill-50-wound-110
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  2. Mabsoot
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    assalamu alaykum

    While it attacks like those are horrific in all cases, it is wrong to make such generalisations. The shia are already a minority, but there do exist extremist elements that kill civillians. There are many sad accounts of human rights abuses and terrorism happening against Sunnis in Iraq, Syria and Lebanon. The Shabiha death squads have massacred and tortured many in Syria.
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  3. Haimi
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    Assalam!
    Im a shiaa and they aren't a true sonni. They aren't humans at all so let's skip about their religion. Because animals arent a good object to be religious.

    We've some sonni that can describe our leaders and imam with hadith better than any shiaa sheykh.

    Shiaa and sonni gathering together in tehran some times and one time in a day each year. By sonni and shia i mean their famous sheykh. You cannot call someone muslim who's droping bombs on yamani people or palastine or syria or afghani or pakestani people.
    By the way did you notice how safe and peaceful is iran while surronded with countries that are in war? Instead they kill our hajji in their land. Wonderful.
    Wassalam.
  4. montazer-zohour
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    Assalamo Alaykom.
    they aren't sunni... they are muslims that do every thing that Israel want. so they aren't muslims now.
    Hyllary kilntun said in her Diary that (we made Daesh). It was so clearly at the first.
    They want to show that these wilds are muslim and every one hate muslims and Islam.
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  5. a_stranger
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    To be Sunni means you should follow the Sunna of our prophet salla Allah alaihi wa Salam who taught us mercy, kindness and justice. Our prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam taught us not to kill an ant.
  6. a_stranger
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    Who are doing the massacres in Syria and Iraq since years?
  7. saif
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    saif Junior Member

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    Assalamu alaikum sister,
    Actually I wanted to remain silent on your post because I thought, I am least qualified to justify any killings done in Syria and Iraq. I have started this thread because I am by nature a self-cricital person. I am sunni myself and will remain so but that does not stop me having an unbiased look at the happenings in the world.

    So in the same spirite of self-criticism, I have following to say about Iraq and Syria. Let's start from Iraq. I don't know the ancient history but I know, how the things were in the time of Saddam Husain. He was considered to be a sunni arab defending the arabs against persians, when he was fighting against Iran. Later he was considered as kafir, when he attacked Kuwait, even though he was spreading pictures posing on a prayer rug. And finally, he was considered again a sunni martyr, when the video of his execution was leaked.

    It is a fact, that Shia had a hard time under Saddam Husain's rule. Let me remind you, that the first "arab spring", even though it was not named as such, happened in 1979, when Shia started protests against ba'ath party's rule. Not only were the protests brutally suppressed, it ultimately sparked the Iran-Iraq war. See, as long as he was fighting against shia and Iran, there was no fatwa of kufr against him. I happen to know a canadian, who spent some time in 80's in Saudi Arabia and attended many balls in the royal circles in Riyad. He told me, how Saddam was considered to be an arab hero at that time.

    I have always asked myself, why sheikh Ibn Baaz's fatwas were so timely and befitting to the royal family. Let us assume for a moment, that Ba'thists were kuffaar and I don't know of any general fatwa of takfir of Iran, then we have to accept, that the sunni world have been helping kuffaar against muslims during the Iran-Iraq war.

    Saddam was certainly wrong in attacking Kuwait but had he become a kaafir by doing that? I still remember Pakistan accused Iraqi embassy for spreading propaganda pictures of Saddam, where he was posing on a prayer rug. Let me tell you, that those propaganda pictures were successful because I could never accept his takfir by Sheikh Ibn Baaz.

    Anyways, we sunnis invited kuffaar (americans) to help us against other kuffaar (Iraqi Ba'thists) in accordance with the fatwa of Sheikh Ibn Baaz. Saddam was executed and since the majority population of Iraq is Shia, they formed a majority shia government. Now, after such a long oppression against shia, we would at least be prepared for some backlash, shouldn't we? Honestly, I don't remember to have seen that backlash to be too harsh. Saddam's structures were dismantled. Isn't it understandable? Does that justify their foundation of ISIS? Does that justify terrorist attacks on shia shrines?

    Was it a shia conspiracy, that Iraq went into shia hands? If you read again, what I have written above about iraq, you will be convinced, that it was all our own fault. We have brought americans in and they have brought democracy in. What else was to be expected? In fact, I am happy, that the majority population is ruling the country. After doing that mistake we are now worried about Bahrain and Yemen and want to hinder the shia rule by using all fair or unfair means. InshAllah Bahrain will also be one day ruled by their majority population and I will be happy for them.

    Now towards Syria. Remember, King Abdullah of Jordan once spoke of a shia hilal in formation, when Iraq went into shia hands. If you look at the map and look at countries starting from Iran then Iraq then Syria and then Lebanon, they indeed form a hilal of countries with shia majority or shia strength. When arab spring started, some sunni countries became too greedy to break this shia hilal. Breaking all norms, they encouraged khurooj against an established government. Of course Asad's response was too harsh but what else were you expecting? How do the sunnis deal with a khurooj of that kind in their own countries?

    Usually, the sunni scholars do not encourage hizbi jihaad. But here they made an exception. They encouraged different fasaadi groups and we are now reaping the results in the form of Fasaad fil Ard. How do you think the ISIS fasaadis could get all those toyota vehicles? Of course, they were most probably imported in Turkey to spread among those fasaadis.

    I summarize: We have no one else to blame but ourselves.
    May Allah forgive us and show us the straight path, ameen. May Allah punish all those who are spreading mischief on earth on this earth and in hereafter.

    Wassalamu alaikum.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2016
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  8. a_stranger
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    Assallamu alaikim
    I like to remind you that at the time of Saddam Hussain both Sunni and Shiaa had a very hard time. No body in Iraq not Shiaa not Sunna like to be ruled by Iran . This government was imposed on Iraqi people by US army not democracy .
    I agree with you that we all muslems did great mistakes , we all need to return to the pure Islam which promote justice, kindness, mercy, as was practiced by our prophet and his companions . We need a spiritual revolution to change .
    Now what is happening in Syria and Iraq is tragedy for all , no human can be happy with that.
    Wa alsalam
  9. saif
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    Assalamu alaikum
    Thank you for agreeing with my post. It is true, that Saddam Hussain was harsh on everybody (shia or sunni). However, my point was, and it remains valid, that a vast majority of sunni arab world was supporting him in his war against Iran. Was it arab nationalism against a'jam or was it sunnis against shia? I think, it was a mix of both.

    Americans did not impose "irani" government on Iraqi people. They made Iraqi Governing Council for an interim period. The country has since then seen 3 general elections and it was the iraqi people, who chose their leaders. If they happen to be shia, we should happily accept that. Even now Iran is not governing Iraq. Iraqi people are too proud of their nationhood to accept that. Iran is only helping the iraqis stop the sunni jihadi boys called ISIS.

    Wassalamu alaikum
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  10. Haimi
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    Iran maybe is doing that right?
    Do you even go to Karbala in arbaeen when around 20 million people iare gathering?l together?
    And may i ask where are you from and where do you live at this moment my dear sister?
  11. Haimi
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    I will pray for you because of the time that you spent on this post.
  12. Haimi
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    I will call and bring the prophet muhammad rasulallah (sawaw) in the judgement day (Alghiama) to Hokm, and judge between what we said in this topic. Vallaho a'alam, vallaho kheyrol a'alemin.
  13. Arfatzafar
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    Killing of any innocent person regardless of his religion and sect is prohibited in Islam but reality can't be overlooked that whichever religion or sect has upper hand over others is violating the basic laws concerning humanity.
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  14. Arfatzafar
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    Killing of any innocent person regardless of his religion and sect is prohibited in Islam but reality can't be overlooked that whichever religion or sect has upper hand over others is violating the basic laws concerning humanity.
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  15. Pure-heart
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    It is the media that want you to think so, otherwise most of the killing, torture masacares are done by Shia militant.
  16. Pure-heart
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    VIDEO: Iraq Shia militiaman cuts burnt corpse 'like shawarma'
    #IraqatWar
    Iraqi militia 'Rambo' - known as Abu Azrael – mocks strength of Islamic State as he cuts the charred body of a dead man hung upside down

    'Where will you run to? We will chase you until you are ground and become nothing but flour' (Screengrab/YouTube)

    Mamoon Alabbasi
    Friday 28 August 2015 18:23 UTC
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    Saturday 29 August 2015 9:08 UTC
    2092 7910googleplus6 20.3K
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    Abu Azrael; Shia Militia; Popular Mobilisation Units; Angel of Death
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    A video circulating on social media purportedly shows a renowned Iraqi Shia militiaman standing next to a charred body. The body is hung upside as the militiaman raises his sword and cuts a slice from the corpse of the unidentified dead man. The video has sparked wide debate in Iraq.

    The militiaman - who goes by the nom de guerre of Abu Azrael (or father of the Angel of Death) but whose real name is Ayoub Faleh Hassan al-Rubaie - claimed in the video that the body belonged to a dead fighter sent by the Islamic State group (IS) to the city of Baiji.

    "Those [fighters] were sent by the supposed elites of IS [who boast of their strength] but end up like shawarma," Abu Azrael said as he cut part of the dead man's leg.

    The video, which could not be independently verified, was shared by fans and critics of Abu Azrael alike.

    Towards the end of the video, members of the anti-IS Shia militia - known as the Popular Mobilisation Units (PMU) - chanted "Where will you run to? [We will chase you until you are ground and become nothing] but flour."

    The chant, which Abu Azrael said in a separate video that it is derived from Shia religious heritage, has come to serve as a signature battle cry of the PMU against IS.

    Abu Azrael has become well-known after he was portrayed by his supporters as a Rambo-like figure in the fight against IS.

    Although the PMU is revered by many Iraqis for its role in fighting back advancing IS militants – who are notorious for committing numerous atrocities – critics view the sectarian nature of some in the Shia militia as resembling that of their foes, with civilians bearing the brunt of conflict.
    - See more at: http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/v...an-cuts-burnt-corpse-shawarma-814719537#.dpuf
  17. Pure-heart
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    WATCH: Shia Muslim Militants Burn Sunni Alive
    Published 8:03 am EST, May 31, 2015 3 Comments By Sam Prince 2.1k
    Share 343 Tweet Share Email Follow Next

    A graphic video purportedly out of Iraq alleges to show Iraqi Shia militants burning a hog-tied Sunni over a fire while he screams for help.

    The Islamic religious divisions of Sunni and Shia are a major driving force behind the unrest in Iraq. Sunnis are puritanical in their interpretation of the Quran, while Shia venerates imams much like Catholics venerate saints. Sunnis view this veneration as idolatry and paganic.

    The video was not shared by the Shia militants, as the Arabic translation of the video caption reads:

    Brigades of Imam Ali Choi civilian arm of the Tigris in the area northeast Alگrmh show its crimes in front of the camera. Where is the world reporting of this terrorism?!

    We are reporting it right here. However, any backstory as to who the now presumed dead Sunni is and his affiliation with other militant factions in Iraq is unknown. Still, that does not excuse the way his execution was carried out by this alleged Shia faction.
  18. sister herb
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    When sunnis make something evil like terrorism, we say very often that they haven´t understood what Islam is teaching and condemn their acts as acts of misguided individuals (or groups). Shouldn´t we think alike when shias make some evil acts? Does Shiite (or what ever we call about it) teach to attack against civilians any more than sunnism or are they too misguided with some political motives?
  19. Pure-heart
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    Sure , most of Shia are peaceful kind people , like most of the Sunnies, still there are militant ( related to Iran ) very well trained and armed doing masacares since years in Iraq and Syria . The media is talking about the crimes of Daesh ignoring the crimes of those militants while their crimes exceeds many times in numbers and brutality crimes of Daesh. I condem the crime done by any one , but truth should be said. Since ignoring them encouraged them to do more.
  20. Pure-heart
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    Iraq: Pro-Government Militias’ Trail of Death
    Attacks on Sunnis in At Least 3 Provinces
    Languages
    Available Inالعربية English
    Print

    EXPAND Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki speaks during a news conference in Baghdad July 26, 2014
    © 2014 Reuters
    (Baghdad) – Government-backed militias have been kidnapping and killing Sunni civilians throughout Iraq’s Baghdad, Diyala, and Hilla provinces over the past five months. The killings and abductions mark a serious escalation in sectarian violence at a time when the armed conflict between government forces and Sunni insurgents is intensifying.

    Human Rights Watch documented the killings of 61 Sunni men between June 1 and July 9, 2014, and the killing of at least 48 Sunni men in March and April in villages and towns around Baghdad, an area known as the “Baghdad Belt.” Witnesses and medical and government sources said that militias were responsible in each case. In many cases, witnesses identified the militia as Asa’ib Ahl al-Haqq (League of the Righteous), commonly referred to as Asa’ib.

    “The government seems to think that if people blame militias for killings it can wash its hands of the matter,” said Joe Stork, deputy Middle East and North Africa director. “In fact, the government needs to rein in these militias and call a halt to killing people just because of their sect.”

    As the government has lost control over large portions of the country in the wake of an offensive by the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham (ISIS, now renamed the Islamic State) and allied Sunni insurgents, Prime Minister al-Maliki has been forming new security forces made up of militias and is taking little or no action as they kill people, Human Rights Watch found. The government should hold those responsible for these killings to account.

    In March, media reports said that Prime Minister al-Maliki had met with senior security advisers and told them that he would form a new security force consisting of three militias to police Baghdad – Asa’ib, Kita’ib Hezbollah, and the Badr Brigades, which is run by Transport Minister Hadi al-Ameri. A government official who provides national security advice to the prime minister’s office told Human Rights Watch in June that while Asa’ib fighters “take orders” from the militia’s military leader, Qais al-Khalazy, “ultimately they’re loyal to Maliki, who gives Qais orders.”

    In four of the killings documented by Human Rights Watch in Baghdad, in June and July, witnesses said that men in civilian clothing driving military vehicles without license plates kidnapped the victims, who were all Sunni males ranging in age from their early 20s to late 50s, from the Sha`ab, Baya`a, Za`afraniyya, and Ghazaliyya neighborhoods. In each instance, their bodies were found a few hours or days later with bullet wounds to their heads. In another instance in June, two men in civilian clothing, with their faces loosely covered, drove up to a well-known café in the Sha`ab neighborhood and shot the two Sunni owners in the head in front of café customers and in view of a military checkpoint 10 meters away, a witness told Human Rights Watch.

    Baghdad’s forensic medical authority confirmed three other killings in Baghdad that Human Rights Watch had documented through interviews with witnesses and relatives of the dead men. Three forensic doctors told Human Rights Watch they believed militias carried out the three killings, based on what they said was a similar pattern of killing and their observations of militia activity in Baghdad.

    Witnesses Human Rights Watch interviewed said that Asa’ib conducts illegal “arrests” in numerous areas in Baghdad and Diyala provinces. One man described to Human Rights Watch how Asa’ib fighters kidnapped him from a mixed Sunni-Shia neighborhood in west Baghdad. He said had he not convinced his kidnappers he was Shia “that would have been the end of me.” When they released him, they identified themselves to him as members of Asa’ib. The sister, wife, and father of another kidnapped man, a Sunni, described how they witnessed militiamen take the man from his shop in a mixed Sunni-Shia neighborhood, on May 28. They said he has been missing ever since.

    Sectarian killings have markedly increased since ISIS took over Mosul on June 10. “Sunnis are a minority in Baghdad, but they’re the majority in our morgue,” a doctor working in the Health Ministry told Human Rights Watch. He and three other doctors said the number of Sunnis in the morgue who died violent deaths had increased significantly since June 10.

    In nearly all the cases Human Rights Watch documented, witnesses described men who dressed similarly and used the same tactics. Without exception, everyone Human Rights Watch interviewed said they believed militias, particularly Asa’ib, were responsible and that they “control” security forces in areas of Baghdad and Diyala provinces. Two government officials with knowledge of security forces separately told Human Rights Watch that the government pays militiamen who now control security forces in many areas throughout Iraq.

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