Theatheist
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A number by definition is a number is a mathematical object used in counting and measuring. Yeah, it's a negative number. It's still a number!
Ask an atheist anything.
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A number by definition is a number is a mathematical object used in counting and measuring. Yeah, it's a negative number. It's still a number!
Welcome to the Forum,
Firstly, this thread seems to have slightly got out of control (in terms of all the posts), even I'm finding it difficult to navigate through it all. What I can see happening (as Brother Steve940 said) is nobody will budge on their side and it will carry on endlessly, resulting in arguments and insults. (Therefore, I may close this thread if I notice this).
I think what brother Steve (sorry if I'm wrong) was trying to say is like the post below,
Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.
(Qur’aan 52: 35-36)
The Qur’aan says to them: “You exist, and you cannot deny this”;
- the heavens and the earth exist, beyond any doubt. It is simply common sense, to the rational mind, that the things which exist must have a cause for their existence. The camel herder in the desert knows this.
He says,
“Camel dung indicates the presence of a camel and footsteps indicate that someone walked here. So the heavens with their stars and the earth with its mountains and valleys must indicate the existence of the All-Knowing, All-Aware.”
The great scientists who research into life and living beings also know this.
What is referred to in this aayah is know to the scientists as the law of cause and effect. This law states that a (possible) thing cannot happen by itself without another thing (causing it), because it does not possess in itself the power to exist by itself, and it cannot by itself cause something else to exist, for it cannot give to others that which it does not itself possess.
And this post after the one above,
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362027#post362027
My reply to you is in a few parts,
Firstly, as was posted earlier, in Islaam we believe first and foremost and that none has the right to be worshipped except Allaah (the Almighty). From your initial post and latter posts you reject this. So the existence of a Creator needs to be proven to you and that Creator being Allaah (the Exalted)
So therefore, I refer you to the thread below, now the thread goes in quite a lot of detail but is presented in a good manner and not huge chunks of texts to read.
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362018#post362018
For example, it includes refutation of Darwin's theory which you believe in and provides ample proof of a Creator. Like below,
The sounds then travel via the nerves to the auditory centre of the brain, so that the person or animal may understand the sounds he hears and distinguish them from one another.
Could all of this have happened at the same time by chance? The mathematical laws of probability rule that out completely.
The thread goes through it in detail - for example the bee (which Allaah tells us about in the Qur'aan). And this,
The great American scholar Christie Morrison, the former head of the Academy of Science in New York, says:
“The position of the heavenly bodies did not happen merely by chance. They are placed in a calculated manner in space. If the moon, for example, was closer to the earth by a quarter of the distance that separates us from it, the ebb and flow of the tides would become so strong that all dry land would be flooded at high tide, and as a result all creatures that live on the dry land would be drowned. If the axis of the earth was not at an angle of 23o, this would result in permanent night at the poles. Evaporation from the oceans would lead to the formation of huge icecaps, the pressure of which would cause the earth to bulge. There would be less rain, to an extent which would make life on earth impossible. The speed of the earth’s revolution would approach 1000 mph. Even if we were to imagine it spinning at a speed of only 100 mph, this would make both night and day longer, with the result that all plants and animals would burn during the day from the intense heart, and freeze at night because of the intense cold.”
In the voluminous book by Dr. Judd, Professor of philosophy at London University, there is a discussion of the different way in which universe and life could have come into being, discussed from a scientific and philosophical point of view. The summary of this detailed discussion is that the universe can only have come into being as the result of an amazing process of creation. Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), indeed spoke the truth when He said:
We will show then Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur’aan) is the truth...
(Qur’aan 41: 53)
Therefore refer to the thread which will provide you with the sufficient proof.
Kind Regards.
Firstly, this thread seems to have slightly got out of control (in terms of all the posts), even I'm finding it difficult to navigate through it all. What I can see happening (as Brother Steve940 said) is nobody will budge on their side and it will carry on endlessly, resulting in arguments and insults. (Therefore, I may close this thread if I notice this).
I think what brother Steve (sorry if I'm wrong) was trying to say is like the post below,
2 – The Second Proof: This Universe Must Have A Creator
The Qur’aan offers the disbelievers and deniers proof which rational minds have no option but to affirm and which no sound mind can possibly reject. Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), says:
Were they created by nothing? Or were they themselves the creators? Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.
(Qur’aan 52: 35-36)
The Qur’aan says to them: “You exist, and you cannot deny this”;
- the heavens and the earth exist, beyond any doubt. It is simply common sense, to the rational mind, that the things which exist must have a cause for their existence. The camel herder in the desert knows this.
He says,
“Camel dung indicates the presence of a camel and footsteps indicate that someone walked here. So the heavens with their stars and the earth with its mountains and valleys must indicate the existence of the All-Knowing, All-Aware.”
The great scientists who research into life and living beings also know this.
What is referred to in this aayah is know to the scientists as the law of cause and effect. This law states that a (possible) thing cannot happen by itself without another thing (causing it), because it does not possess in itself the power to exist by itself, and it cannot by itself cause something else to exist, for it cannot give to others that which it does not itself possess.
And this post after the one above,
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362027#post362027
My reply to you is in a few parts,
Firstly, as was posted earlier, in Islaam we believe first and foremost and that none has the right to be worshipped except Allaah (the Almighty). From your initial post and latter posts you reject this. So the existence of a Creator needs to be proven to you and that Creator being Allaah (the Exalted)
So therefore, I refer you to the thread below, now the thread goes in quite a lot of detail but is presented in a good manner and not huge chunks of texts to read.
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=362018#post362018
For example, it includes refutation of Darwin's theory which you believe in and provides ample proof of a Creator. Like below,
xviii) The formation of the ear
No reasonable person could imagine that the formation of the ear in man and in a number of other animals could have come about by accident. The ear has a drum which picks up sound waves and vibrates. These vibrations are carried to three tiny bones which are arranged in an amazing fashion. The pressure on both sides of the eardrum should always be equal; for that reason there is a tube behind the ear which connects to the nasal cavity. The internal part of the ear is connected to a bone which is shaped like a shell. Its function is to analyse noises and distinguish between tones; it also controls the sense of balance. If it were not for this, we would not be able to take even one step without tripping and falling.
The sounds then travel via the nerves to the auditory centre of the brain, so that the person or animal may understand the sounds he hears and distinguish them from one another.
Could all of this have happened at the same time by chance? The mathematical laws of probability rule that out completely.
The thread goes through it in detail - for example the bee (which Allaah tells us about in the Qur'aan). And this,
*!*!*!i) The size, dimensions and orbit heavenly bodies
Fred Hoyle, professor of astronomy at London University, says in his book The Nature of the Universe that there are some heavenly bodies whose size is so astoundingly vast that it almost defies imagination, and that in relation to one these bodies the earth would look like a grain of sand.
The great American scholar Christie Morrison, the former head of the Academy of Science in New York, says:
“The position of the heavenly bodies did not happen merely by chance. They are placed in a calculated manner in space. If the moon, for example, was closer to the earth by a quarter of the distance that separates us from it, the ebb and flow of the tides would become so strong that all dry land would be flooded at high tide, and as a result all creatures that live on the dry land would be drowned. If the axis of the earth was not at an angle of 23o, this would result in permanent night at the poles. Evaporation from the oceans would lead to the formation of huge icecaps, the pressure of which would cause the earth to bulge. There would be less rain, to an extent which would make life on earth impossible. The speed of the earth’s revolution would approach 1000 mph. Even if we were to imagine it spinning at a speed of only 100 mph, this would make both night and day longer, with the result that all plants and animals would burn during the day from the intense heart, and freeze at night because of the intense cold.”
In the voluminous book by Dr. Judd, Professor of philosophy at London University, there is a discussion of the different way in which universe and life could have come into being, discussed from a scientific and philosophical point of view. The summary of this detailed discussion is that the universe can only have come into being as the result of an amazing process of creation. Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), indeed spoke the truth when He said:
We will show then Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur’aan) is the truth...
(Qur’aan 41: 53)
Therefore refer to the thread which will provide you with the sufficient proof.
Kind Regards.
Theatheist
New Member
First off, it's naturalism. Not naturelism. Naturalism.
Naturalism is a philosophy grounded in scientific inquiry. It was made by us. It constantly expands and develops as our understanding of the cosmos develops.
And they ask me questions which I can't all answer because they either don't ask a specific question, or I don't have TIME to answer. I do have to do other things than play about on the internet, you know!
Theatheist
New Member
Oh my word. This is just... Astonishing.
First off, it's called an Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy. Notice the last word you missed off? It's fallacy.
The original quoted text was merely you berating me and my character rather than making an argument to refute what I said.
You basically regressed into name calling. How very silly.
You should be more like the other people on this forum. They debate with a degree of decorum.
Theatheist
New Member
Nobody claimed that my arguments were divine. Not even once.
Theatheist
New Member
Right, I've got to go and do things now. I'll respond to the questions next time I am online, which will most likely be on Sunday, because I'm going away for a few days and I won't have access to a computer.
Atheist,
we do not allow debates and baseless arguments. This is a Muslim website and not a fre for all speach website. The problem is that many people do not read our rules before they open threads. This website is intended to clear msconceptions Muslims and nonmuslims have about Islam. We have permitted you to open a thread like this even though there have been atheist, satanist etc who have asked the same question like you did. We are in no need of knowing about atheism as there is not much to ask about as all you beliefs are just bunch of own opinions and ideas with no proof.
We have devine book that tells us everything about our life, future and what happens hereafter. Allah say " that every soul shall taste death"so we know that nothin is forever and when we die it will be a reality. Woe yo those who desbelief in their own Creator who fashoned us and gave us everything we have.
I am surprised that a person intelligent of science like you can denie a creator?
So this thread will be closed, you are welcome to stay with us and ask questions that you have about Islam.
Than you
we do not allow debates and baseless arguments. This is a Muslim website and not a fre for all speach website. The problem is that many people do not read our rules before they open threads. This website is intended to clear msconceptions Muslims and nonmuslims have about Islam. We have permitted you to open a thread like this even though there have been atheist, satanist etc who have asked the same question like you did. We are in no need of knowing about atheism as there is not much to ask about as all you beliefs are just bunch of own opinions and ideas with no proof.
We have devine book that tells us everything about our life, future and what happens hereafter. Allah say " that every soul shall taste death"so we know that nothin is forever and when we die it will be a reality. Woe yo those who desbelief in their own Creator who fashoned us and gave us everything we have.
I am surprised that a person intelligent of science like you can denie a creator?
So this thread will be closed, you are welcome to stay with us and ask questions that you have about Islam.
Than you
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