Children punched and kicked in Muslim faith school

Kakorot

Junior Member
Culture and NOT Islam. Some older generation have this belief that if children are hit, the shaytaan will leave their body, which is complete nonesense.

Anyway, why don't they go undercover in Jewish schools or other faith schools to see if the same thing happens there too?They're always making Islam look bad.

And I think the reporter is Muslim herself.
 

abu'muhammad

Junior Member
Assalaamu alaykum,

In certain cases, the ustaad are told to be strict or over to that with children by the owners of the madrasah and for that they have to remain as such. For such some responsiblity directs upon the managers too. As well its seen that some children are quite naughty and to say, when someone who are just sent to learn and understand the important lessons then the elder children who understands the value of discipline and sincere learning needs to adhere and co-operate to those bound requirements. Later InshaAllaah with that the others will also follow them, if they are upto it. But perhaps Under such a situation the children do not behave as it needs to be at learning place, as sometimes they are not given the adequate instructions from home. Sometimes the ustaad have less options to control the class. And if it becomes a routine than it is not good. Just blaming a teacher isn’t a solution to this problem and with that there are other reasons too for all such happenings. Personally I will also instruct the teacher to be strict for my children. Within limits its necessary.
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
Brother DNA, watch the documentary bro. It wasnt beating, it was all-out UFC in the masjid.

Seriously man, the beatings were abnormal.

Nah, I could say that the kids are actually being hit but no marks are being left on their bodies, and so it's allowed. Didn't you read the fatwa from Islam-QA?! The hadith might be about praying, but the fatwa clearly states that students at school can be hit (as long as there are no marks left on their bodies) to be disciplined.

_________________________________________________________________
What is the ruling on hitting female students in order to teach them and urge them to do their homework that is required of them, and to make them get used to not being negligent?
Answer: There is nothing wrong with that. We should also point out that it is not permissible for a teacher to be harsh in hitting, or to give more than ten blows, unless the student has transgressed a law of Allaah.
_________________________________________________________________

That's pretty clear it's about homework and school issues, and not just about prayer. So for those of you that follow Islam-QA fatwas, how come you pick and choose which fatwas you want to follow?



Anyways, forgive me, I was just trolling in the last post. But I can guarantee you that there will be a lot of Muslims out there that will completely justify the hitting of these kids at the school.

Assalam alaikum.
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
:salam2:

I have just seen the documentary linked in the thread starter's post. There were two primary issues discussed in it :- Corporal punishment on children (which is clearly inhumane) and promoting hate speech against other faiths and 'other muslims'.

On the issue of corporal punishment, it is definitely not the way to teach someone the sciences of Quran. With every mistake, comes an inhumane blow or a kick. That doesn't seem to be an effective way to teach.

Firstly, it's not a proper way to treat young muslim children like that. Even though they maybe unruly and naughty (as kids are), hitting them indiscriminately is a total no-no. I think the teacher at the Kayleigh mosque seriously has some issues. And making young teens incharge of young children without an elder's supervision is a total management disaster. It just shows how little thought has gone into their Sunday school setup.

This issue of hitting and teaching the Quran in the Indian Subcontinent has been discussed earlier on this thread :- http://turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57726 ..

It seems like these schools setup by immigrant muslims are following in the same cultural manner of teaching the Quran as in their home country. It has more to do with the Indian subcontinent culture than anything.

Secondly, as one of the students mentioned in the program (who spoke unanimously to 'Dispatches'), the learning process would not get any faster or better with the increasing of whacks/kicks. Rather it would put the child in constant fear of making a mistake. How would he ever develop a love for learning and reading the Quran out of love and respect ? Rather he would dread learning it, when infact they should be inculcating a yearning in the student's heart to learn such a noble & blessed science of tajweed.

The second issue raised in the documentary however is not one that I see eye to eye with completely with the program presenter. The Deoband moulana and their teachers were way over the top with the 'kuffar' rhetoric, however the crux of their teaching/message was correct. It could be that 'Dispatches' would have edited out teachings that encouraged them to better society and give dawah, so maybe we can give them the benefit of the doubt. (The 'buzurg' narration of socializing with a 'less than fistful beard' muslim person being akin to spending time with a serpent was clearly strange and quite peculiar. Where do they come up with this stuff ?)

In any case, Muslims have a different outlook towards life and have to abide by different set of rules that non muslims don't have to.Therefore we need to have our guard up, not to get swayed by the 'popular culture' or 'commonly practiced'. Thus we are against women and men dressing immodestly or listening to music etc etc. I think 'Dispatches' presented this segment of the program in a partially sinister manner, by terming such beliefs/views as 'extremists' (by portraying them to the teaching of the 'same mosque/madrassa' that hits children).

Darul Uloom network is going to be in some scrutiny over the next months/years. Strange way of teaching from an equally strange sect/brand of Islam. (though the whacking part seems to be mainly from Indian culture)

Quite surprised to know that Deobandis operate about half of the mosques in Britain. I thought they were mainly concentrated in Birmingham and Bradford.
 

BrotherInIslam7

La Illaha Illa Allah
Staff member
Some older generation have this belief that if children are hit, the shaytaan will leave their body, which is complete nonesense.

:salam2:

I thought that I wouldn't come across anything stranger than some sentiments mentioned in the program for quite a while, before I read this.

I dont quite understand how they can come to such a conclusion. Quite unsettling that muslims would ever believe such things.
 

dna1987

Muslim Guy
Theres no way of telling if there were marks left on the body or not actually, more over that is definitely not the primary concern of the teacher smacking them, 99% of the time they haven't even bothered looking up any ruling on the matter. In theory, ofcourse its okay, Islaam doesn't permit excessive beating and there are guidelines for discipline, but the application of this can be in some cases non-existent.

Assalam alaikum.

I agree with you that 99% of the time, the teachers probably wouldn't have read up on the ruling. And no, I don't think it is okay to beat the kids at all. However, you have just mentioned that there is no way to tell if there are marks left or not, so how can anyone pretend that they know there are marks left on the body? The teacher hitting them would know the best. Anyways, I posted the Islam-QA link that shows it is permissible to hit children to discipline them...for those that love fatwas from that site.

Plus, if Islaam permits discipline in the way of smacking without leaving a mark, then that is what parents/teachers should stick to and I can see measures like cold showers being disallowed actually. Based on the consequences that come with it in that the child could fall sick, if you're not allowed to leave a mark then its got more to do with the symbolic act of showing you're displeased with a child, then causing any sort of physical harm.

As I said the very first time, a cold shower is still a lot better than getting a physical beat-down (that means a bad one). And bad physical beatings that leave marks, which are clear-cut forbidden in Islam, occur a lot more in the Subcontinent and the Middle East than psychologically-damaging-and-therefore-possibly-being-disallowed cold showers.

Assalam alaikum.
 

Salam2You

Lil' Muslimah
Salam alaikum brothers and sisters!

Most of you haven't noticed BBC's aim of propaganda, let alone the discipline in mosques, BBC don't have a right whatsoever of sneaking a camera into someone's business!

How dare they.. May Allah bring guidance to the extreme imaam, but may Allah punish the people who have the guts to use propaganda on Islam, yet again.

P.S. If your teachers, mum or dad hit you, the place you've been hit won't get burnt in Hell fire
Astaghfirullah..
 

Salam2You

Lil' Muslimah
^ Ive heard that saying alot of times. Can you provide the evidence please?

+ it was Channel4

Salam2You brother!

I know I've heard it before, it couldn't be a fabrication because I know I've seen it somewhere...

+ O it's channel 4 hehe, I thought it was BBC because they had a show Panorama, which had propaganda against Islam in an episode..

InshaAllah someone can provide evidence with the parents quoted.

Anyway...Media is absorbing people's minds so easily these days!
 

Ibn Uthaymin

Junior member
The reason I asked is because when I was small I went to the mosque. The teacher would beat us (it wasn't as extreme as the documentary) and we were told what you quoted. It seems that people use that to justify their actions. I wanna know if its based on the religion or culture.

One more thing, I don`t think the documentary was propaganda. It was sheer truth.
I mean the Muslim community has serious problems, we shouldn't deny that.

The only thing that was blown out of proportion is the usage of the word "Kuffar". Its not a contemptuous word. Its just means disbeliever/ unbeliever in Arabic
 
Top