Could the moderators be so kind to explain Irja to us?
- Thread starter Idris16
- Start date
Abd_Al_Hadi
لبيك يا الله
................
No debate at all happened, I believe only a member replied and he said those with irja seems to be like non-Muslims, sadly MANY had no clue who the Murji'ah (those who are upon irja) were. But I am still waiting for the moderators to teach us since they deleted my thread because of the truth involved. Maybe someone deleted it because it was mentioned that there are todays "Salafi Scholars" who have irja, which is in fact true, and whoever denies it should provide proof.
al-Bidaayah wan-Nihaayah of al-Haafith Ibn Katheer, vol. 10/276
Wa alaykom salam warahmatollah wabarakatoh
I did say that I made a thread about it but it got deleted, so why should I make the same thread and then get it deleted again? Let the mods do the job.
Assalaam alaikum,
Brother,
It is simple. You feel that there is knowledge we need to gain. Make a new thread. Be careful with your wording and make sure it is factual. And let us know why you think it is important. InshaAllah, we will all learn. Support your thread with links that are appropriate to this site.
Brother,
It is simple. You feel that there is knowledge we need to gain. Make a new thread. Be careful with your wording and make sure it is factual. And let us know why you think it is important. InshaAllah, we will all learn. Support your thread with links that are appropriate to this site.
alf2
Islam is a way of life
Yes this is what I found on google. I am still confused =(
Moosa khan
New Member
http://mecca.com is fake site - Stay Away
Please bycot this website http://mecca.com as it is from the house of non-muslims .
Please bycot this website http://mecca.com as it is from the house of non-muslims .
Wa alaykum salam
OK, let me put the videos (the moderator who deleted my thread doesnt even bother to post about irja) . Do not forget that those who are upon irja and follow it while the truth has been presented to them is a Murji.
OK. But even better than articles would be videos! Do not forget that the Murji is basically the other extreme opposite of the khawarij. The khawarij considers major sins to make a Muslim a kafir. For example according to the beliefs of the khawarij, the one who drinks alcohol is a disbeliever, the Muslim woman who doesnt wear hijab is a kafir. Sadly I have been called khariji in the internet even though I am far from the khawarij.
Abd_Al_Hadi
لبيك يا الله
Sister, its an old group of people who believe that as long as they state that they accept Allah as their lord and savior, they're good to go. Its a lazy ideology of ancient Islam that really doesn't require you to pray, fast, or really follow Islam. A good example is the Nation of Islam. Their god is "Allah," but they don't follow Quran. Brother Idris' question is "Are they Muslim?"
The reason why the Mods would have probably delete this sort of stuff is simple. It makes Salafis look weak, because their Kings are Murji'ahs. If brother Idris posts a thread and warns us that Murji'ah are NOT Muslims, then people in Saudi Arabia will say, "Oh snapp! Our king and princes are not Muslim....lets overthrow them!!" That's where things become political.
I didn't notice the original thread. Thanks for explaining brother. Interesting topic. It might be political, but a forum is a place to discuss, so I'm not sure why this topic is deleted.
It is not about Salafis and I do not know if the Murjiah in general are considered disbelievers. I want to get rid of their thoughts. Irja should be eradicated from our way of thinking. Irja is the belief that actions are not part of iman. Also irja is not about not following the Quran, it is more about their deviated beliefs concerning actions. So I disagree with your post akh
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20885/murji'ahShaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The kind of bid’ah for which a person is regarded as being one of those who follow their whims and desires is that which is well known among the scholars of the Sunnah for going against the Qur’aan and Sunnah, such as the bid’ah of the Khaarijis, the Raafidis, the Qadaris and the Murji’is. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Mubaarak, Yoosuf ibn Asbaat and others said: The roots of the seventy-two sects are four: the Khaarijis, the Raafidis, the Qadaris and the Murji’is. It was said to Ibn al-Mubaarak, And the Jahamis? He said, The Jahamis are not part of the ummah of Muhammad
The Jahamis deny the divine attributes and say that the Qur’aan was created, that Allaah will not be seen in the Hereafter, that Muhammad was not taken up to Allaah [on the night of the Mi’raaj], and that Allaah has no knowledge, power or life, and so on, as the Mu’tazilis, philosophers and their followers said. ‘Abd al-Rahmaan ibn Mahdi said: There are only two groups to beware of: the Jahamis and the Raafidis.
These two groups are the worst of the followers of innovation, and from them stemmed the esoteric Qaraamiti groups such as the Nusayris and Ismaa’ilis. Similar to them are those who believe in the unity of the Creator and the creation, because their ideas are akin to Pharaonic ideas.
The Raafidis of the current age, as well as being Raafidis are also Jahamis and Qadaris, because in addition to their rafd [which has to do with their beliefs concerning the imams] they also follow the Mu’tazili school of thought, and some of them even follow the school of thought of the Ismaa’ilis and other similar heretics and those who believe in the unity of the Creator and the creation. And Allaah and His Messenger know best.
Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 35/414-415.
1. This is about Belief in the Heart
There is no difference of opinion amongst the Ulemā' that you must believe to have Īmān. There are numerous ayahs in the Qur'ān which speak about the Munāfiqīn and that their state in the hellfire is of the lowest levels because they do not believe in their hearts though they show Islām in their speech and actions.
And Allah (swt) says: When the hypocrites come to you (O Muhammedsaw), they say: "We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah." Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars indeed. They have made their oaths a screen (for their hypocrisy). Thus they hinder (men) from the Path of Allah. Verily, evil is what they used to do. That is because they believed, then disbelieved, therefore their hearts are sealed, so they understand not. [EMQ al-Munāfiqūn:1-3]
Imam Qurtubī and others have said, they come speaking words of belief but they do not have belief in the heart.
Another interesting point we can take from this ayah as well is that Allah (swt) affirms their Īmān because of what they used to say i.e. speech (…That is because they believed) and then negates their Īmān (…then disbelieved) due to the Kufr in their belief. So this can also be used as evidence for speech being part of Īmān but will be covered in the next point. And as well Allah (swt) says: Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them. [EMQ an-Nisā':143]
Similarly of the evidences that prove that belief is part of Īmān is the statement of the Messenger (saw); Every action is by intention and for every person is what he intended. It is also reported in Bukharī that the Messengersaw said: The one who says the Shahādah truthfully in his heart, Allah has forbidden hellfire for him.
There are many evidences indicating that the belief enters into the definition of Īmān, the matter of this is agreed upon by everyone even the Murji'ah.
However amongst the Murji'ah there are the Karamiyyah who have disagreement about this and they say you become Muslim just be saying the Shahādah, regardless of the Kufr beliefs you have. This Madh'hab is rejected from every angle by ration and by text.
Unfortunately in our times we do not find any group calling themselves Karamiyyah however they hold the same ideas as them and no matter what Kufr and Shirk some fall into and openly show Kufr and Shirki beliefs, the fact that they have said Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh, Īmān will be confirmed for them as they are on the Manhaj and ideas of the Karamiyyah in their speech and actions, though they do not explicitly label themselves as such, as we know ourselves and can picture this idea being prevalent today and this danger needs to be countered and warned against.
The next part will be about the tongue, proof that confession of the tongue is a part of iman.
The Definition of Īmān.. And A Clarification That It Is Belief, Sayings and Action.
There is no difference of opinion amongst the Ulemā' that you must believe to have Īmān. There are numerous ayahs in the Qur'ān which speak about the Munāfiqīn and that their state in the hellfire is of the lowest levels because they do not believe in their hearts though they show Islām in their speech and actions.
And Allah (swt) says: When the hypocrites come to you (O Muhammed
saw), they say: "We bear witness that you are indeed the Messenger of Allah." Allah knows that you are indeed His Messenger and Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars indeed. They have made their oaths a screen (for their hypocrisy). Thus they hinder (men) from the Path of Allah. Verily, evil is what they used to do. That is because they believed, then disbelieved, therefore their hearts are sealed, so they understand not. [EMQ al-Munāfiqūn:1-3]Imam Qurtubī and others have said, they come speaking words of belief but they do not have belief in the heart.
Another interesting point we can take from this ayah as well is that Allah (swt) affirms their Īmān because of what they used to say i.e. speech (…That is because they believed) and then negates their Īmān (…then disbelieved) due to the Kufr in their belief. So this can also be used as evidence for speech being part of Īmān but will be covered in the next point. And as well Allah (swt) says: Verily, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths (grade) of the Fire; no helper will you find for them. [EMQ an-Nisā':143]
Similarly of the evidences that prove that belief is part of Īmān is the statement of the Messenger (saw); Every action is by intention and for every person is what he intended. It is also reported in Bukharī that the Messenger
saw said: The one who says the Shahādah truthfully in his heart, Allah has forbidden hellfire for him.There are many evidences indicating that the belief enters into the definition of Īmān, the matter of this is agreed upon by everyone even the Murji'ah.
However amongst the Murji'ah there are the Karamiyyah who have disagreement about this and they say you become Muslim just be saying the Shahādah, regardless of the Kufr beliefs you have. This Madh'hab is rejected from every angle by ration and by text.
Unfortunately in our times we do not find any group calling themselves Karamiyyah however they hold the same ideas as them and no matter what Kufr and Shirk some fall into and openly show Kufr and Shirki beliefs, the fact that they have said Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh, Īmān will be confirmed for them as they are on the Manhaj and ideas of the Karamiyyah in their speech and actions, though they do not explicitly label themselves as such, as we know ourselves and can picture this idea being prevalent today and this danger needs to be countered and warned against.
The next part will be about the tongue, proof that confession of the tongue is a part of iman.
mohammadyunus
Junior Member
This is what i found out -
There arose a disagreement on the question that "Who is Kafir?" after the Mushajarat between Sahaba. The Khawarij declared most of the Sahaba to be Kafir saying that they have been involved in bloodshed. It was the core principle of the Khawarij to declare the one who commits major sins to be a Kafir.Then came the ahlul Irjaa or the Murjiaa. Irjaa literally means "to postpone or to delay". They said that we can not declare the one who has committed a major sin to be a Kafir. They said that all the believers who after becoming Muslims have not committed Shirk shall go to paradise eventually after getting their due punishment in hell for their sins. Majority of the Muslims of that era were Murjiaah in this sense. The Mu'tazilla claimed that the one who commits major sins is neither a Muslim nor a kafir but rests in a state between these two known as "al manzilu bayna manzilatain". So the Murjiaah took the middle path between the Khawarij and the Mu'tazilla. (see al milal wal nihal of allama sheristani for details)
Later one , this position turned into a proper theological school of thought. Some later murjiaah claimed that faith is just verbal affirmation and actions have nothing to do with faith. So if a person has verbally attested the Shahadah , he is a Muslim no matter what he does. Faith neither increases nor decreases and is something not dependent on action. The kings and majority of the scholars of the gulf states are labelled as Murjiaah because they have resorted to only rituals in Islam and do nothing practical for the establishment of Caliphate and have abandoned Jihaad so they too in a sense believe that faith is only verbal attestation and has nothing to do with action.
There arose a disagreement on the question that "Who is Kafir?" after the Mushajarat between Sahaba. The Khawarij declared most of the Sahaba to be Kafir saying that they have been involved in bloodshed. It was the core principle of the Khawarij to declare the one who commits major sins to be a Kafir.Then came the ahlul Irjaa or the Murjiaa. Irjaa literally means "to postpone or to delay". They said that we can not declare the one who has committed a major sin to be a Kafir. They said that all the believers who after becoming Muslims have not committed Shirk shall go to paradise eventually after getting their due punishment in hell for their sins. Majority of the Muslims of that era were Murjiaah in this sense. The Mu'tazilla claimed that the one who commits major sins is neither a Muslim nor a kafir but rests in a state between these two known as "al manzilu bayna manzilatain". So the Murjiaah took the middle path between the Khawarij and the Mu'tazilla. (see al milal wal nihal of allama sheristani for details)
Later one , this position turned into a proper theological school of thought. Some later murjiaah claimed that faith is just verbal affirmation and actions have nothing to do with faith. So if a person has verbally attested the Shahadah , he is a Muslim no matter what he does. Faith neither increases nor decreases and is something not dependent on action. The kings and majority of the scholars of the gulf states are labelled as Murjiaah because they have resorted to only rituals in Islam and do nothing practical for the establishment of Caliphate and have abandoned Jihaad so they too in a sense believe that faith is only verbal attestation and has nothing to do with action.
2. Speech is part of Iman
Speech is part of Īmān.
Speech here is the statement of the tongue testifying the Shahādah of Tawhīd, Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh-Muhammedu-Rasūlullah. And we know we must say the Shahādah to enter into Islām and if one does not say the Shahādah he cannot enter Islām. There is something else which can be evidence of the Islām of someone other then saying the Shahādah and that is the Salāh. So if we see someone praying we bear witness that he is Muslim even though we do not know if he has said the Shahādah or have never heard him say the Shahādah. As the Messengersaw said: Whoever prays our prayer, faces our Qiblah and eats our slaughtered meat he is Muslim. [Agreed upon] Also by reciting the Salāh you are also saying the Shahādah of Tawhīd as it is included within the prayer.
Another evidence of speech being a part of Īmān is the Invitation of the Messengersaw to his uncle Abu Tālib as mentioned in Sahīh Muslim and others. When Abu Tālib was in his death bed, the Messenger saw went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Messenger saw said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and I will testify for you on the day of judgment." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, "I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so."
Allah (swt) revealed ayah prohibiting this, ‘It is not fitting, for the Messenger and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.’ [Surah at-Tauba 9:]
And Allah (swt) also revealed to the Messengersaw, ‘You cannot guide whoever you so will, it is Allah who guides whom He wishes.’ [Surah Qasas 28:56]
Abu Tālib never rejected the Messengersaw in his heart and he used to believe in him and aided his Da'wah in Makkah and despite showing belief via this and the way he dealt with the Messenger saw he never said the Shahādah and Allah (swt) confirmed no Īmān for him.
Another Evidence that speech is part of Īmān is the Hadīth of the Messengersaw; I have been ordered to fight the people until they say Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh and Muhammed saw is the his messenger, and establish Salāt, and pay Zakāt, and if they do these things their blood and wealth is protected except by the Had of Islām.
Imām Nawawi says regarding this Hadīth in his Sharh 1/212: In this is that the condition of Īmān is to say the two Shahādah's with belief in them, and to believe in everything that the Messengersaw came with.
Ibn Taymiyyah in his Fatāwa 7/609 states: Whoever does not say the two Shahādah's with capability (Qudrah) he is a Kāfir by the agreement of all Muslims, whoever does not say it, is not Muslim, he is Kāfir both inner and outer according to the agreement of all the Ulemā' of the Salaf and the Majority of the scholars of the past.
And evidences regarding this condition are covered in our book The Conditions of Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh, available in English so please refer to that, we mentioned it here so we can understand how the same evidences and the statements enter into the definition of Īmān.
Speech is part of Īmān.
Speech here is the statement of the tongue testifying the Shahādah of Tawhīd, Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh-Muhammedu-Rasūlullah. And we know we must say the Shahādah to enter into Islām and if one does not say the Shahādah he cannot enter Islām. There is something else which can be evidence of the Islām of someone other then saying the Shahādah and that is the Salāh. So if we see someone praying we bear witness that he is Muslim even though we do not know if he has said the Shahādah or have never heard him say the Shahādah. As the Messenger
saw said: Whoever prays our prayer, faces our Qiblah and eats our slaughtered meat he is Muslim. [Agreed upon] Also by reciting the Salāh you are also saying the Shahādah of Tawhīd as it is included within the prayer.Another evidence of speech being a part of Īmān is the Invitation of the Messenger
saw to his uncle Abu Tālib as mentioned in Sahīh Muslim and others. When Abu Tālib was in his death bed, the Messenger saw went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Messenger saw said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and I will testify for you on the day of judgment." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, "I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Allah (swt) revealed ayah prohibiting this, ‘It is not fitting, for the Messenger and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.’ [Surah at-Tauba 9:]
And Allah (swt) also revealed to the Messenger
saw, ‘You cannot guide whoever you so will, it is Allah who guides whom He wishes.’ [Surah Qasas 28:56]Abu Tālib never rejected the Messenger
saw in his heart and he used to believe in him and aided his Da'wah in Makkah and despite showing belief via this and the way he dealt with the Messenger saw he never said the Shahādah and Allah (swt) confirmed no Īmān for him.Another Evidence that speech is part of Īmān is the Hadīth of the Messenger
saw; I have been ordered to fight the people until they say Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh and Muhammed saw is the his messenger, and establish Salāt, and pay Zakāt, and if they do these things their blood and wealth is protected except by the Had of Islām.Imām Nawawi says regarding this Hadīth in his Sharh 1/212: In this is that the condition of Īmān is to say the two Shahādah's with belief in them, and to believe in everything that the Messenger
saw came with.Ibn Taymiyyah in his Fatāwa 7/609 states: Whoever does not say the two Shahādah's with capability (Qudrah) he is a Kāfir by the agreement of all Muslims, whoever does not say it, is not Muslim, he is Kāfir both inner and outer according to the agreement of all the Ulemā' of the Salaf and the Majority of the scholars of the past.
And evidences regarding this condition are covered in our book The Conditions of Lā-Ilāha-Ilallāh, available in English so please refer to that, we mentioned it here so we can understand how the same evidences and the statements enter into the definition of Īmān.
I am glad the moderators didn't delete this thread, if they do not like this thread they should explain to me. I hope you are interested in finding out what iman means in islam and in that way you can learn about Irja and the Murji'ah. I want to post about 'actions is part of iman' later. It is the controversial part of iman since we Muslims have different approach concerning it. After that insha'Allah I want to make sure everyone knows our iman can increase and decrease. Barak-Allahu Fikom.
Ershad
Junior Member
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3558 - Maybe this also helps