Article Crimes and penalties in the Bible and Islam

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by WhiteKnight, Jan 24, 2014.

  1. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Hmm... Well I am not convinced that the Quran as a work is in itself miraculous. However, I will accept that to the 6th century Pagans of Arabia it would have seemed so. :)

    Blessing. C
  2. WhiteKnight
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    WhiteKnight Junior Member

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    It is still hard to me to believe in the Holy Trinity and the way God manifested himself as Christians believe :)
    Peace and God's blessings be upon you ;)
  3. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Understanding the Trinity is easy, explaining it to someone who has been told it is wrong is I think impossible. :)

    Suffice to say I see it about love and relationship. The Bible tells us we exist as body, soul and spirit... Yet each one of us is unique. We are also taught we are made in Gods image. Our purest attributes reflect our Creator. One of our greatest attributes is love, we are all capable of pure love, that would cause us to sacrifice ourselves for a loved one if we had to. This is unselfish love. However, to know love we have to share in it. How would a unitary being know love? Or indeed empathy. Is it enough to say, well God would just know. :)

    That's why the trinitarian view of God makes more sense to me than a unitary being. God, His Word (Yeshua) and His Holy Spirit always existed in a community of love, which is reflected in our human need to love and be loved. It's about family, and we see ourselves as part of Gods family. Which is something truly wonderful.

    See.... I never said it was easy to explain. :)

    Blessings. C
    Btw before you asked where I was from, it was rude of me not to give a translation of my native tongue. I apologise :oops: I am Welsh, but live in England at the moment. All part of the UK. :D
  4. WhiteKnight
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    WhiteKnight Junior Member

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    I wasn't told wrong about the Trinity, but I still don't believe in it. The unity of God is more ''sensible to me'', still ;). To me, unitary God knows everything about love because he loves His creatures. God is the most merciful, the most compassionate and graceful as my religion taught me :D.
    BTW, you didn't behave rudely at all. I translated that sentence through Google!Translate and got the message :) That's why your English is unmistakable and perfect ;), you live in the UK :D
    Peace be upon you :D
  5. Cariad
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    :) That's what I find about the Quran and I guess Islam there is a lot of acceptance.."just because.. God is God. Yet I also find this view of God as a rather " unknowable" God. It does not explain how God loves His creation if God has never experienced love.

    I see that God created everything we are and all we have and all this conforms to rules, nature, physics whatever all comes from God. Does God operate outside of His rules? If so then it is maybe ok to say we believe God can do everything just because He is God, but this then makes God seem capricious and rather arbitrary. I don't see God can be like this, God is just as He is merciful I don't believe God would set rules for us that He also did not apply to His own greatness. I believe God created us to His own blueprint as is the Bible claims we were made in His image, primarily for community with God.

    I was forgetting google :D if it is not overly nosey of me... Where are you from? :)

    Blessings. C
  6. WhiteKnight
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    God is the all-knowing and all-powerful and He cannot be compared to mortal humans in terms of feelings :). Only human cannot love if he doesn't experience it. But God, He is so Great and Omnipotent that we cannot say that he should experience love through sacrifice as you mentioned before in my opinion :D. He can love and have mercy without the Holy Trinity .I know it is hard to convince you :). It's a matter of doctrines as we have been saying before ;)

    Peace be upon you :D

    I'm from Egypt by the way;)
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2014
  7. Cariad
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    It's because God is knowing and all powerful that God knows our need for love. :) God being omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent does not mean God Himself cannot know what we know. A creator must know his creation better than anyone else.

    Yes, it is a matter of doctrines. :) however, I do not believe God can be contained in any one religion, God is greater than that. A religion is a means of enabling understanding, we gain that through the Spirit.

    Egypt .. :D iawn 'n glws.. Your command of the English language is excellent.

    Blessings.
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  8. MQ_Dardebi
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    I don't think I've seen much decent and calm interfaith dialogues, this one seems to be one of the few well tactful that I've read. which to good extent reflects sincere intentions of the people here, something to appreciate a lot.

    May God bless you all :)

    Cariad, you're quite capable of reasoning your faith in a very clear manner, one can not resist but absolutely admire :). WhiteKnight as well was as conscious, that too is admired. :)

    I pretty much agree on the sentiment that Allah (swt) the God because he's God, we do look at it differently, to you may seem cold, in Islam, however, we believe in reasons why it's not as cold, rather compelling enough for healthy faith to be established, presented in a simply obvious manner, and significant in it's message that's beyond all the dramas, for God is described in the message as the ultimate source for existence, and He is so due to his infinity which reflects naturally on his attributes, we firmly believe in 99 of them, all of which are empathetic with our level of understanding and even a lot of His attributes we share in finite form, and so it's not as easy in Islam to disregard this as arbitrary. If we are to exchange recommendations, there's a book by a Muslim theologian and scholar from the 11th century AlGhazali, he's quite famous till today, "The ninety-nine beautiful names" is the title, one can relate to it at this time and in it is found good ideas explaining Allah's attributes. Yeah I would recommend the only available English copy, I think :D, translated by Nazeh Daher and David Burrel.

    Looking forward for more of these discussions, with God's bless.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
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  9. Cariad
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    Thank you kindly for your encouraging words. :) To often I see Christians entering into debates with muslims and vice versa with one aim to shout each other down and arrogantly make claims that they are right the other wrong. Yet they never listen to each other, if they just looked past their jargon and dogma they would see that we are not that different, we hold to the same One True God. We should be uniting as people of faith against those with an agenda against God.

    I have enjoyed talking with WhiteKnight he is firm in his faith and also knowledgable. I am firm in mine and maybe fairly knowledgable ;) it should never be about seeking to convert someone away from their path, personally I think that's where many go wrong, muslims and Christians alike. It should be about gaining a better understanding about those who although they may not share the same point of view of God, it is still the same God. I believe God reveals Himself in ways that we can best understand, God placed me on the path I walk if God one day places me on another path, then so be it, until that time I'll bimble along on the path I now tread. :) Its arrogant to believe we have the power to turn a person from Gods chosen path.... I see that as the remit of Gods Holy Spirit alone ;)

    Peace and blessings to you. C

    Btw.. Thank you for the book suggestion... I will check it out.
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  10. WhiteKnight
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    Cariad, you've hit the nail right in the head as Americans would say ;). The main objective of this thread is to allay non Muslims doubts about Islam and to show how great our religion and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) are :D. If only Muslims and Christians all around the world would live peacefully together without discrimination and hatred :). Spreading peace across the entire globe is the core of both Christianity and Islam. Nevertheless, some of their false followers bring the teachings of both religions into disrepute by their shameful deeds and abhorrent behavior :(

    Finally, I'd like to thank my brother MQ_Dardebi for his inspiring words to us :)

    Peace be upon the both of you :)
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  11. Cariad
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    I'm thinking maybe the Brits may have coined this phrase first.... But we don't mind if the Americans like to take it as their own.. ;) it's the little things.. ;) :)
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