apocalypse77
Junior Member
of course all of us wants to move on with our lives
the problem is, some of us dont even want to look at the past and learn from our mistakes and continue making the same mistakes. again and again
Destruction of Buddhist Sculpture in Afghanistan
- Thread starter TheHumbleWun
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the problem is, some of us dont even want to look at the past and learn from our mistakes and continue making the same mistakes. again and again
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Salaam,
Firstly the statue existed in that country before Islam existed therefore you can argue it was put their by the natives of the land. In other words it was built by people in their "own country." If there are Muslim children there then there are Muslim parents who will Inshallah raise their child to not worship statues. There are many, many statues in other lands (Muslim lands included) and we don't go out and blow them all up just in case some illiterate, uneducated Muslim begins to worship it.
If a Muslim child begins to worship a statue of Buddah then the problem runs much, much deeper than what we think. Where are the imams? His parents? The muftis? Is this child being raised all alone and with no Muslims to guide him?
Here's the irony, I am a member of a message board where all religious groups have open dialog so we learn about each other's beliefs. I put the question forward tonight and one very wise Buddhist came forward and very politely explained their feelings. He said that Buddhism teaches that no earthly thing is permanent rather that everything eventually will decay and dissappear. He said that maybe the people who constructed the statue would be pleased that the destruction reinforced their belief in impermanence of all earthly things. And that it would please them that it opened a intellectual conversation on the matter.
What a graceful and civilized response...and to think...not once did he say they should blow up some buildings of Muslims to get even. However when we felt someone had offended us, what were our actions?
In the end I feel anything that repels people from Islam is not a good thing. I do NOT want to stand before Allah swt and find out my actions and/or words have turned one person away from Islam.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
apocalypse77
Junior Member
Your respond reminds me of a phrase my dad once told me. "Some non muslims tend to behave even more islamic than muslims themselves"
Documentary on Buddhism:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6317066305444907870&q=Buddhism+and+Islam
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Buddhism:
http://truthisproven.blogspot.com/2007/02/muhammad-s-in-buddhist-scriptures-part_19.html
Objections by Buddhists and replies to them:
http://truthisproven.blogspot.com/2007/02/objections-by-buddhists-and-replies-to.html
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6317066305444907870&q=Buddhism+and+Islam
Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in Buddhism:
http://truthisproven.blogspot.com/2007/02/muhammad-s-in-buddhist-scriptures-part_19.html
Objections by Buddhists and replies to them:
http://truthisproven.blogspot.com/2007/02/objections-by-buddhists-and-replies-to.html
chaandani
Goofy Member
Assalaamu alaikum.
if i may, i dont nessecarily agree with the destruction of the statue as it was a piece of art, a source for research and while it stood - a sign of religious tolerance. i honestly dont believe anyone would be ignorant enough to bow before the statue without first asking who it was and why it was there. and i can easily see the desctruction of the staute turning people AWAY from islam. but whats done is done and reconstructing it will never restore its true value so i honestly dont understand why they are bothering. like someone said, theres other places that are much more in need of money then to reconstruct a statue and those places (i.e. hunger, education, etc) should be dealt with first and foremost.
wassalaam
if i may, i dont nessecarily agree with the destruction of the statue as it was a piece of art, a source for research and while it stood - a sign of religious tolerance. i honestly dont believe anyone would be ignorant enough to bow before the statue without first asking who it was and why it was there. and i can easily see the desctruction of the staute turning people AWAY from islam. but whats done is done and reconstructing it will never restore its true value so i honestly dont understand why they are bothering. like someone said, theres other places that are much more in need of money then to reconstruct a statue and those places (i.e. hunger, education, etc) should be dealt with first and foremost.
wassalaam
podolski11
PAIN
i think it was the talibans right to destroy them cause they were ruling the country n well it was found on their country so they owned the statues...im sure they would have thought about all the money they could have got from this so called tourism but they placed Islam first n now we r saying wat they did was wrong....how illeterate n ignorant can some of us get ...they did it for the sake of Islam n we here r discussing wat they did was wrong ...i find it really weird in the Quran it says not to have those statue stuff n we r opposing it ...there r some *modern muslims* we have here who r saying Islam is the right religion n on the other hand dont want to accept what the Quran says ...n the reason why we dont blow up those monuments n statues in the other countries is simple ,there is no Islamic law there so we have no rite to blow them cause we dont own that country....
Dear podolski11,
Quran doesn't say that you have to destroy others' religious symbols! Rather it says exactly the opposite:
22.40: (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
So, please think twice before supporting this kind of acts.
Quran doesn't say that you have to destroy others' religious symbols! Rather it says exactly the opposite:
22.40: (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, "our Lord is Allah". Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
So, please think twice before supporting this kind of acts.
junaid hasan
Banned
in pakistan or other muslim countries there are church of hindus , and a lot of statues. But people are not allowed to destroy this because its the right of other religions.But some of brother and sister says here that people didn´t warship this buddha´s statue.SO why the muslim need that?Why need those muslim who lived near this statue?
If it was against the will of buddhist who lived in the near of this statues then it would be not allowed.
If someone had problem with destroying this statue then they could cut the whole statue and bring in their own country.
If we try to understand this verse without context then can anybody entlighten me why prophet mohammad(sw) destroy the more then 300 statue of mushriks?
assalam alaikum...you mey have diesagreement with Taleban desicion that is you'r opinion but i would never alow some other countreys to treat with higher value(respect) some old rock and be disrespectfull to my afghan people(nation) read post #10 that is the truth about how came to that decision
ShyHijabi
Junior Member
Salaam,
Because they were in the Kabba and it needed to be restored to it's original use. Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) did not go to the the surrounding areas and begin destroying those statues as well so neither should we. We're talking about a sacred place versus the side of a cliff that holds no value in Islam.
Wasalaam
~Sarah
TheHumbleWun
Banned
Salaam,
Do you think America will allow a a carved face of Salahuddin on Mount Rushmore (or any place that is significant and people can see a big statue)? Or how about Hitler? Let's take for example, people worshiped them and lived in the US. Also, let's say they were already made centuries ago. What about if it was not made long ago, but people wanted to build it now? Do you think they will allow this?
It's one thing if you build a statue and put it inside your temple and you worship it and another that is so noticeable and does not have significance in a predominately Islamic country.
podolski11
PAIN
good point.....and i didnt know the prophet Muhammad pbuh said not to destroy other statues if they r in ur country
MOSABJA
Junior Member
Mullah Umar claimed that he had a dream about destroying those idols .I dont know whether he really had seen a dream or not .
But destroying statues was perfectly alright it is SUNNAH of Prophets.Regarding the argument that quran say"there is no compulsion in religion"
Certainly the Taliban did not force any non muslim to revert to islam .
Then some one wrote that should muslims in minority destroy the statues
I would say that situation is different when muslims are in Minority and when Muslims have established Shariah .
According to Shariah non Muslims in Muslim land have the right to practice religion but as HAZRAT UMAR(R.A) GAVE CONDITIONS OF CITIZENSHIP TO NON MUSLIMS THAT
1) they will not preach there religion to Muslims.
2) They will not display signs of there religion(statues e.t.c) .
3) they will not give call to prayers loudly.
In view of these traditions Taliban did right by destroying the statues bcz they were seen as Huge signs of shirk. Non Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely as there is no compulsion but they are not allowed to PREACH,DISPLAY HALL MARKS OF SHIRK.
As far as hurting Buddhists is concerned that is not an argument as there are many drug addicts in world by banning opium you would hurt them too...
The othere argument that no one was worshiping that statues I think them being hallmark of shirk is enough for them to be destroyed.
But destroying statues was perfectly alright it is SUNNAH of Prophets.Regarding the argument that quran say"there is no compulsion in religion"
Certainly the Taliban did not force any non muslim to revert to islam .
Then some one wrote that should muslims in minority destroy the statues
I would say that situation is different when muslims are in Minority and when Muslims have established Shariah .
According to Shariah non Muslims in Muslim land have the right to practice religion but as HAZRAT UMAR(R.A) GAVE CONDITIONS OF CITIZENSHIP TO NON MUSLIMS THAT
1) they will not preach there religion to Muslims.
2) They will not display signs of there religion(statues e.t.c) .
3) they will not give call to prayers loudly.
In view of these traditions Taliban did right by destroying the statues bcz they were seen as Huge signs of shirk. Non Muslims are allowed to practice their religion freely as there is no compulsion but they are not allowed to PREACH,DISPLAY HALL MARKS OF SHIRK.
As far as hurting Buddhists is concerned that is not an argument as there are many drug addicts in world by banning opium you would hurt them too...
The othere argument that no one was worshiping that statues I think them being hallmark of shirk is enough for them to be destroyed.
First the faces were already gone on the statues, so there were no human about them. So why the purpose of destroying them, when there are millions of statues everywhere in the world. Remember the talibans were just doing islamic things from their point of view, they were corrup, abusive and aggresive. I now refer to them, stopping women to even have medical care, schooling.
Women may learn about their religion and whatever will be of use to them in their lives as wives and mothers. Then if a woman is able and circumstances are suitable, she may learn other things too. There is no reason why she should not learn the profession of teaching, whether she teaches in women’s schools or in her own home.
A woman may also learn medicine and nursing, especially in the field of women’s diseases (gynaecology), so that she can be a women’s doctor or a women’s nurse, and women will not be forced to go to male doctors.
They (talibans) had food everyday, their horses had electricity when people were starving and couldn't even heat their homes.
Why they need to destroy something that is a livelihood for some. So now should we also destroy the pyramids, museums that have old coffins with faraos and mumies. Because it is unislamic. I think we shouldn't focus on the small things, think of first having a good imaan, then how you do threat your family, neighbours. Just doing your own jihad is a hard journey. Then if we need to destroy all statues, then we will never achive the most fundamental, imaan.
Women may learn about their religion and whatever will be of use to them in their lives as wives and mothers. Then if a woman is able and circumstances are suitable, she may learn other things too. There is no reason why she should not learn the profession of teaching, whether she teaches in women’s schools or in her own home.
A woman may also learn medicine and nursing, especially in the field of women’s diseases (gynaecology), so that she can be a women’s doctor or a women’s nurse, and women will not be forced to go to male doctors.
They (talibans) had food everyday, their horses had electricity when people were starving and couldn't even heat their homes.
Why they need to destroy something that is a livelihood for some. So now should we also destroy the pyramids, museums that have old coffins with faraos and mumies. Because it is unislamic. I think we shouldn't focus on the small things, think of first having a good imaan, then how you do threat your family, neighbours. Just doing your own jihad is a hard journey. Then if we need to destroy all statues, then we will never achive the most fundamental, imaan.
TheHumbleWun
Banned
Asalaamalikum,
Jazakallah khair brother. You summed it beautiful with the proof of sharia law. If you (non-Muslim) live in a Muslim country you abide by the rules, likewise, if you (Muslims) live in a non-Muslim country you abide by the rules, period.
Blowing up the Budha statues was ironic. They been there for so long and nobody worshipped them. I think they were better off blowing up their OWN shrines that they commemorate their various Sufi saints and do dodgy Shirk and Bid'ah in.
Afghanistan is over-run by mysticism and backwards cultural interpretation of Islam. The Taliban did nothing but re-inforce that. They did not have the Shariah. Yes, they stopped people smoking spliffs and producing more opium. Congrats. At same time, they did not address core issues such as establishing Tawheed and erradicating Bid'ah. -
Instead, you had Mullah Omar flashing his cloak to everyone and telling them it was from the Prophet Muhammad
as well as visiting Shrines to do shirk. infact, they have a whole city named after a Shrine, Mazar-i-Sharif!!
Anyway, I think some of the people here are confused as to who the Taliban as a group were, lets allow them to carry on day-dreaming.
Also, I dont think ANYONE should be summing up Shariah law on this forum. This is something that the Scholars who have knowledge of Islam do!!
wasalam.
chaandani
Goofy Member
That's a good thought, but those aren't comparable to the statue. Hitler for one killed millions of innocents, while Buddha did not. Assuming people *did* worship Hitler though - I think it would be a unamious decision that a Hitler statue would not be appropiate - anywhere - not just in one country because what he did affected millions upon millions of people.
As for Mount Rushmore, I don't like that momument and I could care less if it was destroyed considering its history. (It was carved into a mountain considered 'holy' to some Native Americans against the Native Americans will). But at the same time, it is art and it does hold a considerable amount of history. I can see where your arguement may hold true here. Yes, the American people would probably be upset with Salahuddin addition (or any addition for that matter) to the carving. I'm not sure that they would be upset if people were worshipping it though - since at one point it was a place similar to that. But yet, it still remains, correct?
I understand the reasoning behind destroying the statue, and I personally don't agree with it, but this happened back in like 2004, so what's done is done! Why are we debating it?
Salaam,
We are debating it because we are so misguided as an ummath we can not even agree on a small thing. We are debating over a beaten horse. We are debating because we have not asked a scholar. We are debating because we are insecure. Who cares about a statute. Here I go again. I have written several posts asking members to write a letter to a detainee. I have had two responses. We have Muslims locked up for being Muslims. We have a young brother who is locked up. His sin was his family was doing charity work in Afganistan. He needed surgery and was not given the medical attention he needed. His mother and sister are on charity in Pakistan. His mother is Canadian. He is being detained in the Washington, D.C. area. I do not believe this young man who has lost his father and brothers is 20 yet. Please someone tell me why you can not write a letter to this youth and let him know he is not alone in this world. What is to fear? Yet we can debate nonsense and become critical of each other forgetting that often it is best not to engage in nonsens. Please forgive me.
We are debating it because we are so misguided as an ummath we can not even agree on a small thing. We are debating over a beaten horse. We are debating because we have not asked a scholar. We are debating because we are insecure. Who cares about a statute. Here I go again. I have written several posts asking members to write a letter to a detainee. I have had two responses. We have Muslims locked up for being Muslims. We have a young brother who is locked up. His sin was his family was doing charity work in Afganistan. He needed surgery and was not given the medical attention he needed. His mother and sister are on charity in Pakistan. His mother is Canadian. He is being detained in the Washington, D.C. area. I do not believe this young man who has lost his father and brothers is 20 yet. Please someone tell me why you can not write a letter to this youth and let him know he is not alone in this world. What is to fear? Yet we can debate nonsense and become critical of each other forgetting that often it is best not to engage in nonsens. Please forgive me.
Blowing up the Budha statues was ironic. They been there for so long and nobody worshipped them. I think they were better off blowing up their OWN shrines that they commemorate their various Sufi saints and do dodgy Shirk and Bid'ah in.
Afghanistan is over-run by mysticism and backwards cultural interpretation of Islam. The Taliban did nothing but re-inforce that. They did not have the Shariah. Yes, they stopped people smoking spliffs and producing more opium. Congrats. At same time, they did not address core issues such as establishing Tawheed and erradicating Bid'ah. -
Instead, you had Mullah Omar flashing his cloak to everyone and telling them it was from the Prophet Muhammad
infact, they have a whole city named after a Shrine, Mazar-i-Sharif!!
Anyway, I think some of the people here are confused as to who the Taliban as a group were, lets allow them to carry on day-dreaming.
Also, I dont think ANYONE should be summing up Shariah law on this forum. This is something that the Scholars who have knowledge of Islam do!!
wasalam.
Salamu alaykum,
i agree akhi with u 100%. I would have said myself that destroying something that is used as shirk to Allah as being a good deed, because of the hadeeth "who sees an evil, he should stop it with his hand, and if not then by his mouth and if not then by his heart, even though that is the weakest form of iman". But alhamdlulillah ,ur right. They destroyed something that other people use to worship and commit shirk, yet the taliban have statues over graves that they themselves praise and have not destroyed them. I believe that it was done just to anger the west, not as a result of tawheed. Barakallahu feek
Oh didnt the taliban kill scholars of ahlissunna wal jamat? Cause if heard soemthing like that....
Allah knows best
Assalamu alaykum
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