difficulty with the gospel of John

[Rashadi]

According to Christians, the account in the gospel of John refers to the holy spirit while Muslims do not agree. If this was truly a recorded saying of Jesus(as) and it refers to the holy spirit, there is still a difficulty for Christians who make that claim. If I am not mistaken, the holy spirit is God as the third person in the trinity. Since the three are not supposed to be three separate gods, for that would mean Christian are polytheists which they deny, then we must take their understanding and treat the three as the same one God. Here is the recording from the gospel John which speaks of someone coming after Jesus(as):


"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".(John 26:12-14).

The first problem with the verse is that it states "he" several times and not "it" as that would describe a spirit. It also states that "he" will not speak on "his" own but whatever "he" hears" that "he" shall speak. Now I have asked this before to many of my Christian friends and they just become emotional and want to quickly squash the subject as if it's not there, but it is not easy to deny it. If this is talking about the holy spirit, and the holy spirit is God, how can it not speak on its own? Who does God listen to? Aren't all three the same? If they are the same, how can one be superior to the other and how does one of them not speak on their own? The holy spirit being God according to Christians would imply that it can and does speak on its own but that is not what the verse is indicating. Furthermore, the holy spirit was already around before Jesus(as), during his life and after him. One has to admit that there is a problem here and it is not so simple to just ignore or claim that it is the holy spirit.

I know there are different denominations and not all accept the trinity nor do they interpret it the same way, but I was taught that the three are one and the same, but that is not so based on the above verse if it's supposed to be God. Another difficulty with this whole concept of the holy spirit being in someone is how can a person who has God in them go out and fornicate, commit adultery, drink alcohol, do money scams and the many other heinous sins? There is a problem with this and I noticed it that even with my own friends who were united pentecostal, and they claim to be the "true doctrine church" while everyone else is wrong. I have seen Christians who were "born again" and "saved" yet later become disbelievers, atheists, slept with someone's husband/wife and done many other major sins. This would mean that they had God in them the whole time yet still were doing these things, and while claiming to be saved they later became disbelievers so this would mean that no person is really "saved" because no one knows what will happen tomorrow. I considered myself saved too when I was Christian and here I am today a Muslim and I use to criticize Muslims for not calling themselves saved but I learned the hard way that only God is all knowing and I don't know what will happen two weeks from now.

What about those who also have the holy spirit and I would see them in clubs dancing, drinking and doing things with the opposite sex yet on Sunday they were in church dancing, falling to the ground and claiming the holy spirit is in them. I am wondering how it is that they suddenly turn it on like a light switch that it comes and goes as they please? I mean some people are good at acting and exaggerating and that is exactly what this seems like because whether a strict born again Christian who doesn't even watch tv or the less strict ones, both act the same on Sundays by claiming to have the holy spirit yet they still do some things that not even an atheist would do. Take for example them priests who molest children, or pastors and ministers who commit fornication and adultery, don't they also have the holy spirit(God) inside them, yet here they are doing evil things. I can humbly say that without no God or holy spirit inside me, I live a decent life and stay away from the haram things because I implement Islam into my life and I submit to my Creator.

I am not saying I am perfect but I can admit I do not do those things. Since I began doing my salaats, fasting and doing Islam, I have stopped these things and those around me(my Christian friends and family) can see the change. They remind me at times "you use to do this and that, but i noticed you haven't done this or that anymore" and I remind them that I was living in ignorance before and following my desires and those of others rather than submitting myself to the will of God. So I find it strange and unbelievable that a person who is superior to others, who has God inside him still does horrible things. Some tell me that the devil is evil and he still tempts people but how can God be tempted and if the person inclines to the wispers of the devil and carries out the actions, this means God who is in him does not help him prevent the evil things. If the holy spirit is inside him at all times, then it is still unable to help the person and it even gets tempted by the devil. If it comes and goes when it feels like, this makes it again useless because it does not protect the individual from doing major and evil sins.

Furthermore, if the Christians are really "saved" as they say, why do they still say the famous lord's prayer which asks God to forgive their "sins" if they are already forgiven? Why do they even still say "we are all sinners" when they try to justify their behavior? The church I went to during my last days of Christianity didn't even believe they sinned. After I became a Muslim, I was questioned why we waste our time praying 5 times a day, and they claimed that there is no need to because when you become "saved" you no longer do those things and the holy spirit prevents from sinning yet as I mentioned above, I would see some of them doing bad things and when they would be caught they would feel embarrassed and tell others "don't judge me" but these are thye same people that judge everyone else and even tell them that everyone else is going to hell. I find this strange, the trinity has always been a problem for me and I remember it like yesterday how I would ask questioned even when I was 11 years old and the priest would tell my mom that I need to be taught manners and learn how to respect them.

All I was doing was asking and questioning the trinity, but they couldn't answer this. I now realize of course they couldn't answer because even the doctors of the religion have been unable to explain it. They insist that "it is a mystery that is difficult to explain, it was a long process" and the most popular of all "you have to have faith". If it were so simple and truly a teaching of Jesus(as), there would have been no need for all the violence, bloodshed and killings of others. It had to be imposed by force and pressure. There were all kinds of different "Christians" that existed in the early centuries and had they not been exterminated by those who had the power to get rid of them, who knows what all we would have today. Even after this, new denominations and sects have emerged over the centuries and it hasn't gotten better. If the holy spirit was so helpful and guiding the Christians, it could have prevented all the bloodshed throughout the history of Christianity but it hasn't taught the Christian world one new thing in almost 2,000 years.

It has not helped clarify which version of the Bible is correct, which denomination is the "true" one and many other important issues. I don't see what new thing it has taught and I see a difficulty with the verse in the Gospel according to John. Even if the Christian insists that it is not Muhammad(saaws), one still has to notice the difficulty with it and it can't be talking about the holy spirit. Either way a Christian tries to interpret the verse, he has to either admit that Christians are polytheists and worship three separate gods or he must deny the trinity and accept that God is one and Jesus(as) and the holy spirit are not the same as God nor equals. Of course the Muslim understanding is very clear and the trinity is denied by God himself in the Quran and warns the Christians about it.

I apologize if I have offended anyone but it is my duty as a Muslim to at least deliver the warning and let Christians and others know. Anyone who is honest, sincere and seeking the truth about God, will come to realize that Islam is the truth and we are all born with fitrah. If a person puts aside prejudices and uses the fitrah while sincerely searching for God, will be guided and will recognize that Islam is that fitrah that all are born in. I can't imagine a person who is not influenced and indoctrinated by anything from the parents and surroundings will come to realize that there is only one Creator and He is unique and the one to worship. The difference between Islam and everything else is that Muslims worship the Creator rather than the creation. Anything other than God(Allah Subhana wa Ta'ala) is false to worship and is therefore part of creation. Whether it is a human, animal, moon, sun, starts, trees, nationalism, etc, anything else is false to worship.

In the Quran God tells us about himself in the most beautiful way and anyone sincere and honest will realize that this is true.

"In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
Say: He is Allah, the One!
Allah, the eternally Besought of all!
He beget not nor was begotten.
And there is none comparable unto Him."

May Allah guide us all to the straight path, amin

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Brother, I can you give me some info about the Gospel of Barnabas?

 

[Rashadi]

I have heard of it but I was told that it has mistakes in it. But I be more than happy to know more about it and feel free to share it InshaAllah

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

I have heard of it but I was told that it has mistakes in it. But I be more than happy to know more about it and feel free to share it InshaAllah

What I heard this one is closer to the original Injil (Allahu a'alam) but apparently the Christian rejected this one. Hope someone can help.

 

[Rashadi]

Asy Syu'ara(26):193 Nazala bihir RU_HUL AMIN


193 With it came down the Spirit of Faith and Truth

in the beginning of John, there was someone asking to Almasih Iisa Ibn Maryam 'Alaihi Salaam "Are you John?" then he replied "no," Are you Elia? then he replied "no," ARE YOU THE LAST PROPHET?, then he replied "NO."

QUESTION, Reply the Capitalised words. Who is the SPIRIT of TRUTH? For me if the Christians really believe this, then they must followed MUHAMMAD Shalallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam, because he was receiving the words of Allahu Ta'ala through the SPIRIT OF TRUTH (Ruhul Amin), nonetheless Jibril 'Alaihi Salaam is Ruhul Amin and Ruhul Qudus.


The big problem to Muslim who already read the Bible, they realised that the Church fathers were someone like Constantine, Eusebius, Arius. Then you go on having the Athanasius creed and some meeting before that and after that.

Christians never ask about Gospel of Nazorean, separate from Gospel of the Ebionites and Gospel of the Holy Twelve.

The Christian Bible only include the story of Jesus when he was 30 Years old. That's weird, because in there you won't find about "how he look like."

A Muslim will find about the characteristics of Almasih Jesus Ibn Maryam and how he look like in Al Hadits. Also of Muusa 'Alaihi Salam.

When you think that TRINITY is from reality of God. Then I say that it was fruit of Philosophy thinking. After Nuh 'alaihi Salaam's time, the people were worshipping Wadd, Suwa', Yaghuts, Yauq and Nashr. These people were the Pious people in their time who had died, so the simplest thinking of UMMAH at that time was that they were worshipping them so that those Pious will pray to Allahu Ta'ala, or so that they will be near to Allah as they ask help to them. Or they will ask Allah's mercy by using the position of those Pious men, they thought.

As time goes by, the worship getting worse, that was worshipping the LEADERS of their nation, as they thought that God will strengthen their nation by doing so. This was in the time of Pharaoh or Fir'aun which began before Muusa 'alaihi Salaam and after Yusuf 'alaihi Salaam, in Egypt.

Then there was the worship of SACRIFICING virgins, as these came from the thinking that ADULTERY is a sin, and a virgin must be sacrifice to God, so that He won't be jealous again of people who had many concubines, because He already got His. They thought God liked virgins.

Then came the Greek who liked to worship God and family of God.

The conclusion is that every Kafir people liked to affirm "God has families,"
so many of them,
for example: Osiris(father), Isis (mother), Horus(son). Horus even got twin brother: Seth (Syaithan).
Father of Krishna, Devaki and Krishna.
God the Father, Mary, Jesus.
God the Father, Holy Ghost, Jesus.
Zeus (father), Hera (mother), Apollo (son).
Father of Budha, Maya, and Budha.

What is "Laa ilaha illallah."?
In Arabic the way to write Laa ilaha illallah is " لا اله الا الله "
See the ا (alif) in the word Allah there? The Alif could be erase, but why was it written in there? Because it is Alif lam makrifat, means that what Muslim meant by the word "Allah" is definite, not indefinite and not abstact (Nakirah).

That means Allahu Ta'ala is only the Creator, the Cherisher, the Sustainer, and the One God who owns the Asma'ul Husna which He made known through His Kitab, and through His messengers, and which He keep inside His knowledge which is Ghaib (not known but by Him).

If the writing is like this " لا اله الا لله " the alif before the lafazh Allah is erase, then it is becoming Allah the abstract, which won't be Al Ilah, the word Allah was derived from Al Ilah " ال اله" not "اله" the rule in Arabic is that when the word written the form of Nakirah means abstract, while when written in the form of Makrifat (with Al : ال) means that it is a DEFINITE noun (Isim).

So forever, Islam will never worship duality of Allah as one or Oneness of Allah in duality, or Trinity of Allah in 1 or oneness of Allah in Trinity.
Only Allah the Al Ilah, Ilah means 1 God, if 2 God: Ilahaini.


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

You know you reminded me of something interesting. There Nazoreans and many other groups did not believe Jesus (as) was God, they did not believe in no trinity and most of the info we hear of them comes from Christian churches who hated them. It is logic that they will declare them as hereitcs.

 

[Rashadi]

Na'am, I have crossed 1 of their webistes and in that site, the story of Ashhabul Kahfi in Al Kahfi(QS.18) is preserved in there in 2 verses.

And so too what Paul said, he said "I believe on Demi God, if really there is a God up there, He must of forgive me."


Assalamu'alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh.

These people were the true followers of Jesus(as) and it was those who call themselves "Christians" who got rid of these people and called them "heretics". At one point the members of the Jesus movement had sworn not to eat until they kill that kafir Paul, and the successor of Jesus in Jerusalem(Yacoub al zadik) had told him to make tawba and ask for forgiveness. This kafir was preaching a whole different religion in the Roman empire while the true followers of Jesus(as) were being persecuted in Palestine. Those true followers of Isa were known as "Nasara" and they were a group of Israelites who lived their lives in devotion to Allah(swt). Yahya(as) also belonged to this movement and they were followers of Musa(as). They didn't convert to anything and the reason these followers of Paul killed them and later declared them as heretics is because they didn't believe the religion that "Christians" followed. In the last century or so, a lot of new information has been discovered such as the dead see scrools and the Nag Hamadi scrolls. These writings paint a totally different picture and it shows how there were diversed believes and that all the other groups were killed, and their writings were mostly destroyed. Most of the things that christians say of these people is not true but it is fabricated against them in order to get Christians to reject them.