Do you have a Curfew?

[mymohsin]

Salam Brother,

Masha allah brother I m very glad to c ur concern about ur sister I think she is lucky to have a brother who love and care for her masha allah may Allah Increase love and effection between u both more and more Ameen.

Brother to my lil knowledge I think that hanging out late night is not good for both male and female as my brothers and sisters above have mention many reasons. In Islam men and women are equal but they differ in duties.male is responsible to run household duties economicly and women is much more responsible in growing kids and so on. So women should not compare themself to men as today in western world women do and by this we have seen how harmfull the results are. rest brother Allah and u know better as u know the situation better there may Allah help and guid u in proper way.

Allah Hafiz.

 

[q8penpals]

Salaam,

If a girl stays out late and she is alone..it is simply unsafe...that is common sense.
Can you tell a girl that no.

Assalam aliekum

Why does everyone keep referring to the sister in question as a GIRL when, if she is 26 years old, she is, in fact, A COMPLETLY GROWN WOMAN!? I find that to be very degrading. A lot of the posts refer to the sister as a girl, and the brother as a man - why are you not saying BOY? When the discussion first started about curfew, I was didn't read it, thinking it had to be for high school aged-people. I have never heard of adults (male or female) needing a curfew?!

Personally, the WOMAN is 26 years old, AND the elder of the two. I don't see how her younger brother can be telling her what to do. If my OLDER brother started telling me what to do, well, I won't mention what I would have told HIM to do!

Now, this is my converted, American viewpoint, and I don't recall knowing where this brother & his sister are locatied, and I will admit that has culturally something to do with the topic. I do agree with the person that said that WOMEN are more social than MEN - I have heard that scientifically presented in many educational senses, hence the differences in learning styles of girls versus boys.

Just my humble thoughts..

Lana

 

[umm hussain]

Salaam,

If a girl stays out late and she is alone..it is simply unsafe...that is common sense.
Can you tell a girl that no.
I am not a scholar but it is not wise to be open to all experiences in life..we are told to lower our gaze. Tempatation is part of our nature.

Can men stay out later yes. why because they are men. It is that simple. Men have a need to be more socially active than women. Men want to come home to a wife and family. That is just a fact of life.

We need to clear about this discussion. Career choices is the topic of another thread.

Once again, it is an individual choice for an adult. For children, common sense tells us to use common sense.

It is unwise to engage in discussions of sexism in Islam. If we have decided to accept Islam we have decided to abide by the dictates of Islam. It is redundant to try and change that which is perfect.

I know I sound preachy. I am not attempting to upset anyone..we just so many more important issues to concentrate on.

Walaikum salam warahmatullah

With all due respect sister. Where does it dictate that a man should stay out as late as his wants and a woman should not. Evidence only from Quran and Sunnah please.

I know of Muslim families who in the name of honor kill their daughters or torture them if they have a boyfriend but if it is a boy he is left alone to be a man because he will need the experience when he marries and I think this is the basis of it. Who gives the man the right to just roam around and chat endlessly for no reason. Why not spend that time doing something beneficial or go to sleep.

I hear of some parents who do not even let their daughters attend functions at the mosque or even sporting activities at the mosque or organized by sisters yet sons can go anywhere and everywhere.

Women are sociable as well. I myself though do not find the need to go out that late anyway. I will go out during the day or can have sisters come to stay for sometime. I am married and my husband does let me have a social life and I can go and visit sisters sometimes for a couple of days but he is not going to be breathing down my neck finding out where I am or what I am doing and he stays with the children the whole time I am away and anyway it does not happen that often anyway because he knows I am not going to be doing anything 'silly' anyway and in some cases he knows the sisters husbands as well and even if he does not know them he knows I do not hang around with 'dodgy' sisters.

If I go somewhere late especially during Ramadan when invited for Iftar, he drops me off and picks me up and i do not mind at all, it is better for me.

One brother pointed out he does not want his sister to go out because he wants her to remain innocent, what exactly does that mean? Would you not want to remain innocent as well? The rule to lower ones gaze is for both men and women.

If a sister is going out to be with other sisters either at a sisters house or even gatherings or even sleep overs for sisters only. I do not see the big deal. Trust is an issue. If your sister fears Allah why would she be doing anything not so 'innocent.'

If you live in a dangerous area and you fear for your sister I think you should fear for yourself as well and stay indoors at night. Unless you are going to pray Maghrib and Ishaa at the mosque

Sexism is not a part of Islam but culture and I find that culture in some cases makes some people appear more superior than others.

I used to have a curfew back in the days but it all depended on where I was going. Sometimes midnight and would probably exceed to 1am of course what I was up to was no good at that time since I was not Muslim but being a muslim now I do not see why I should have a curfew anyway because I would not be up to anything bad. I did have protective brothers but I am not going to take rules or orders from siblings ONLY from my parents.

Generally speaking though I do not think it is good for anyone to be out late. I mean for what reason especially in these kaafir countries where all the 'fun' begins at night time. I have sons and they are not going to be going out for any inexplicable reason at night time or even during the day and yes if I drop my daughter of at a friends house and pick her up and be on her back watching what she is doing. I would be doing exactly the same for the sons as well inshallah

 

[alkathiri]

Salaam,

If a girl stays out late and she is alone..it is simply unsafe...that is common sense.
Can you tell a girl that no.
I am not a scholar but it is not wise to be open to all experiences in life..we are told to lower our gaze. Tempatation is part of our nature.

Can men stay out later yes. why because they are men. It is that simple. Men have a need to be more socially active than women. Men want to come home to a wife and family. That is just a fact of life.

We need to clear about this discussion. Career choices is the topic of another thread.

Once again, it is an individual choice for an adult. For children, common sense tells us to use common sense.

It is unwise to engage in discussions of sexism in Islam. If we have decided to accept Islam we have decided to abide by the dictates of Islam. It is redundant to try and change that which is perfect.

I know I sound preachy. I am not attempting to upset anyone..we just so many more important issues to concentrate on.

i guess mirajmom is speaking frm a mother's point of view.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

I am speaking from a mother's perspective.

First, girl is not a detrogratroy term. In the States it is common to have "girls night out". The women go out with each other. Secondly, it is an unspoken rule that a woman does not go out alone, even here in the states. ( I am speaking about nights ) Married women do not go out alone unless they have to. Why would they need to?

Secondly, men are more social. I am not speaking of going out for amusement. Reflect on all cultures..the Victorian parlor, the French salon, the debates, the coffee houses...men engage in the affairs of the world..
women have too much else to do...the adage " a mans work is from son to son and a womans work is never done....

Take time and think. Do not look at the first defintion of the word social in the dictionary. I am addressing core issues not superficial. And to restate, the decision is not mine to make...the decision is individual..just beware of the consequences.

Please understand that I am pleased with the responses...I have done my job..I have made you think; now think a little deeper.

 

[alkathiri]

Salaam,

I am speaking from a mother's perspective.

First, girl is not a detrogratroy term. In the States it is common to have "girls night out". The women go out with each other. Secondly, it is an unspoken rule that a woman does not go out alone, even here in the states. ( I am speaking about nights ) Married women do not go out alone unless they have to. Why would they need to?

Secondly, men are more social. I am not speaking of going out for amusement. Reflect on all cultures..the Victorian parlor, the French salon, the debates, the coffee houses...men engage in the affairs of the world..
women have too much else to do...the adage " a mans work is from son to son and a womans work is never done....

Take time and think. Do not look at the first defintion of the word social in the dictionary. I am addressing core issues not superficial. And to restate, the decision is not mine to make...the decision is individual..just beware of the consequences.

Please understand that I am pleased with the responses...I have done my job..I have made you think; now think a little deeper.

Can i ask u something mirajmom??
The most dfficult part for a mother when her sons/daughters are in their teens..
Is that true??

i think some sisters need to experience themselves. I know some of them are mothers . Wait till your daughters/ sons reach their teens that they will understand mirajmom point...

But i do not agree with mirajmom generalization in her statement....

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Asalaamalikum,

To answer some of you, I live in Washington D.C., USA, and I have lived here pretty much all my life for about 17 years now- I still try to preserve some of my parents culture as well.

No, I don't live in a bad neighborhood (alhamdulillah), but in general, living in a kuffar society I believe it's not good especially for sisters to be out late. That does not mean it's okay for brothers to stay late, but generally I think it's not safer for sisters, I hope you all agree.

I wish someone could find a hadith on this or something similar in line. I guess lowering you're gaze is a good one and the fact that men are more easily tempted to lust for women, especially in a kuffar society and at night, where alcohol becomes abundunt and kuffar men & woman wonder around.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Yes, teenagers are a pain. By professional education, I specialized in adoloscents. They are the strum and drung of the German world. The turbulent years. They think they have started to think.
On a postive note...teenagers have the best sense of humor. They are not scared and are honest. I love them. One second they want to fly the next they want to commit suicide. Think of Romeo and Juliet. At my age I would tell Romeo to leave me alone and let me get some sleep.
However, children need structure. Structure gives children, teenagers included, safety. Once they know, and it is a battle, what the rules are and the parent is serious about the rules, they will listen. Mean what you say and say what you mean. You respect the teenager and they will respect you.

When we live in societies that are non-Mulsim it is very difficult. We are strangers. We live in a world that is constantly at battle.
Yes, we all have a right to have experiences. I would not be writing if I had not suffered at my own foolishness of youth. I have lived in the western world 44 of my 51 years of life. I was the only Muslim girl in my college. I know what the temptations are. I know the added pain that comes with living in a world that is non-Mulsim.

I am not attempting to change anyone. I am the simple voice of experience.
I am generalizing. But that too is o.k. Each person has to live and discover what are the parameters they will abide by. You can not force anyone to whatever they do not wish to do.

In whatever I have written please know my intention is pure. I love Islam and Muslims. You are my family.

 

[American Muslim]

In general, I find myself an ardent supporter of the West and it's ideals. So, I am kicking myself in the butt when I say that the Western ideal of complete and total equality are hogwash. The idea that you might be protective of a sister, even an older one, is perfectly understandable.

I did grow up in a chaotic, inner city environment. I've got to say, the world is not a safe place. Yes, I know that it is unsafe for men as well. And yes, I know that women are capable of defending themselves is also true to a degree. I know women that I probably could not take in a fight. But they are the exception, not the rule. If a man is truly intent on assaulting a woman, she will probably be on the ground bleeding.

I am in no way advocating violence against women. I am merely pointing out that different rules apply. I know when I was younger, I could have been beaten, robbed or killed. But I would have been unlikely to have been raped.
Sorry to bring up a horrible subject. Yes, rapes happen. And they happen alot more frequently than reported. It is understandable to be concerned for the safety of a member of your household.

I am not talking about the situation where the husband drops the wife at the home of a friend, or going to an event at the masjid.

Sorry if I have given offense to anyone.
wa salam

 

[jabba]

Asalaamalikum,

To answer some of you, I live in Washington D.C., USA, and I have lived here pretty much all my life for about 17 years now- I still try to preserve some of my parents culture as well.

No, I don't live in a bad neighborhood (alhamdulillah), but in general, living in a kuffar society I believe it's not good especially for sisters to be out late. That does not mean it's okay for brothers to stay late, but generally I think it's not safer for sisters, I hope you all agree.

I wish someone could find a hadith on this or something similar in line. I guess lowering you're gaze is a good one and the fact that men are more easily tempted to lust for women, especially in a kuffar society and at night, where alcohol becomes abundunt and kuffar men & woman wonder around.

NO one can give you proof because it doesn't exist. This topic is completely CULTURAL
"lower your gaze" applies during anytime not just at night....it doesn't apply to the topic.

 

[amyaishazouaoui]

:salam2:

why dont you spend time with your sister and take her out if she wants to. Take her to the movies or out for dinner or something

Its good to have a close relationship with your siblings. Me and my brother are close, we had our moments Yeah he doesn't get the whole islam thing but he's cool with it and will take me out everywhere i need to go. We do so much together, even though he lives 250 miles away from me!!!

Look after your family, coz when u need them they will be there.

 

[TheKnowledgeSeeker]

Assalamu alaykum,

I am guess you are being unfair! First of all i have a brother who is older then me two who is just like you. We are three girls and we the girl like total hate being outside during night unlike my two older brothers who love being outside during night but when my relatives female visit we take then out during nights because that is when you usually see the beauty of the world you live in but is total not safe unless you are with male family.
Anyways don’t sweated that is something Muslim family have trouble with. The Muslim brothers (fathers, brothers, husband, ..) don’t trust the world even to let the sisters go out cos they are male and know what they are capable of doing and that is Allah said that women are not to be outside without male family is with them . AND It is just that we as Muslim don’t recognize how much we are blessed and lucked Allah made us. Allah bless us with sisters/daughters who are not going to go out and come back with big bellies. Go with your sister to be her protect and it is a chance for you two to create close relationship.


:tti_sister: -May Allah keep us all safe!

 

[Aapa]

Salaam sister,

Lower your gaze does apply to this topic. The desire to be going out is wanting the life out there. The person wants to partake of that life. I am not putting a value judgement. I am simply stating if that is what you want to do..remember there are consequences of this. The consequences include the increase in the heart of worldy things. Islam is not austere. Islam is reasonable. It is simply you put a child in a candy store and they will want to try a little bit of everything.
The bottom line is simple: if you select to pursue your desires do so; but be prepared for the consequences of your pursuit. Some maybe good some not good. But be adult to understand that your are responsible.
The Prophet's (swas) wives would only go out in groups to relive themselves twice a day before they had indoor facilities..Bukhari.

 

[hqudrat]

:salam2:
let me ask you a question,the brothers u are hanging around with are they ur brothers (blood relation)? ideally,woman shld guard her modesty in islam.if you don't have anything to do outside like day to day activities and you are not in masjid then u should be at home.May Allah forgive each and everyone of us.



:tti_sister:

 

[Globalpeace]

Catch my drift???

Asslamo Allaikum Brother,

A male perspective, off course…

The point that you have raised gets talked about by teenage Muslim Girls ALL THE TIME; its like a broken record….My brother stays out late, why can’t I?

I hear this all the time….

We need to understand that whether we like it or not , OUR MUSLIM GENERATIONS are being brought about in a Non-Muslim environment with little or no Islamic education or upbringing and we need to handle it….

Young girls and boys are taught Gender-equality and anyone over the age of 30 knows that its utter rubbish….

Off course Islamic education is the answer but we can’t “Appear” to be hypocritical in our ways and judgements, I know that most people are sincere but actions speak louder then words!

Now your sister is not a teenager and this isn’t a HALAL/HARAM issue; you are both adults and this can be dealt with in several ways:

1) You can explain as to WHY YOU NEED to stay out long? I didn’t say WANT; I said, NEED!

2) On certain occasions she can perhaps hitch along….I know that its not fun hanging out with your sister and I would have never said that 10+ years ago (trust me!)

3) If you simply WANT to stay out with friends then we can reasonably argue that she wants to do the same!

This is an Islamic sociology issue; deal with it like you would deal with any other family issue.

I have no idea how you decide other family issues but IF other things don’t get decided strictly according to Qur’aan/Sunnah then evaluating this issue strictly with Qur’aan/Sunnah can “Appear” seriously hypocritical....

I hope you catch my drift, Insha'Allah.

Asalaamalikum,

My sister (who's older) and I argue sometimes when I come home late. I tell her that I am just hanging out with some brothers and I am not doing anything haram. We usually go to a cafe, sit around talk about marriage, work, Islam, and other personal things.

Out of respect for my family, I usually try to come home early. I tell my sister that it's not good for women to come home late, even if they are with their girl friends. I tell her it's different.

Do you think I'm being sexist, bias, or unfair? Or am I correct? Like to hear some views on this subject matter and if any of you brothers/sisters have curfews.

 

[jabba]

Salaam sister,

Lower your gaze does apply to this topic. The desire to be going out is wanting the life out there. The person wants to partake of that life. I am not putting a value judgement. I am simply stating if that is what you want to do..remember there are consequences of this. The consequences include the increase in the heart of worldy things. Islam is not austere. Islam is reasonable. It is simply you put a child in a candy store and they will want to try a little bit of everything.
The bottom line is simple: if you select to pursue your desires do so; but be prepared for the consequences of your pursuit. Some maybe good some not good. But be adult to understand that your are responsible.
The Prophet's (swas) wives would only go out in groups to relive themselves twice a day before they had indoor facilities..Bukhari.

this issue is completely CULTURAL as no one has provided any ISLAMIC evidence that is otherwise!
we are not talking about 10 yrs old children in a candy store we are talking about adults in their 20's that aren't spending time at bars or clubs anyway....
Why are some people trying to make things haram that clearly aren't?

 

[Globalpeace]

Asslamo Allaikum,

Please feel free to critique my last post? Interested in your views, Insha'Allah.

Mirajmom is responding to my response which has misteriously vanished into thin air................
I had said lowering you gaze has nothing to do with women staying out late at night, we should lower our gaze all the time, both men and women!
I also said this issue is completely CULTURAL as no one has provided any ISLAMIC evidence that is otherwise!
P.S we are not talking about 10 yrs old children in a candy store we are talking about adults in their 20's that aren't spending time at bars or clubs anyway....
Why are some people trying to make things haram that clearly aren't?

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

Let me reiterate for the last time. There are reasons why it is unsafe for women to be out, anywhere. It is not limited to culture.
This discussion is not about safety. This discussion appears to be about women wanting to go out. It does not matter where they go they want to go. Let us not be hypocritical. I am simply saying if you want to hang go hang...but know it is not safe.
The sister that is stuck on culture. Explain to me what you mean? Even in this post-modern world young women who go out too often are still labeled as bad little girls. And we know young women go out to meet men...some things do not change...it can be at cafes, bars, seminars, grocery stores, etc. Let's get real here.

 

[Globalpeace]

12 Year olds!

W-Salam Aapa,

Let me steal the thread

We know exactly what you are talking about and I think both of them (brother & sister) are adults to talk it out, Insha'Allah.

BUT...

Q) How do you tell a 12 year old that she can't hang out with her friends but her brother can and go out play sports etc, travel out of town to play games?

Your comments on Islamic upbringing in London/NewYork/Chicago?

Salaam,

Let me reiterate for the last time. There are reasons why it is unsafe for women to be out, anywhere. It is not limited to culture.
This discussion is not about safety. This discussion appears to be about women wanting to go out. It does not matter where they go they want to go. Let us not be hypocritical. I am simply saying if you want to hang go hang...but know it is not safe.
The sister that is stuck on culture. Explain to me what you mean? Even in this post-modern world young women who go out too often are still labeled as bad little girls. And we know young women go out to meet men...some things do not change...it can be at cafes, bars, seminars, grocery stores, etc. Let's get real here.

 

[TheHumbleWun]

Asalaamalikum,

hqudrat - When I was younger I use to hang with the wrong crowd. Now I try to hang out with my cousin and friends that are pious Muslim brothers (non-blood related).

GP- you made some good valid points. It's not a need for me to go out and stay out late, I don't have to hang out with the brothers, but it's the only time I have because I work pretty much 9-5pm (but I do have some weekends, and I also have a younger brother who has Down Syndrome to take care of, so we have to share/plan our time in this house accordingly).

Besides experiencing and living in a non-Muslim society do you think human nature plays a part too? Or is this just my desires? I mean Islamically, is it normal or abnormal to be out late with friends sometimes?

I know what you mean about hanging with your sister all the time lol. I love my sister and I want the best for her and I'm sure she wants the best for me. I don't know how sister amyaishazouaoui does it, driving 250 miles lol j/k

mirajmom - you are keeping it real, I agree, it's not limited to just culture.