Does the lamb represent anything in Islam?

[Ladybug3478]

Hello,

What does the lamb represent in Islam? Does it represent sacrafice? Does it also represent Jesus? What if anything besides an animal does the lamb represent?

Thanks

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

I don't think it represents anything. May I enquire why you're asking? I believe in some pagan cultures it symbolised sacrifice. But such representations of this nature do not exist within Islaam.

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaam,

Brother Al-Kashmiri, the lamb represents Jesus to Christians. They believe they no longer have to sacrifice animals to God (as the Jews did in the Torah) because Jesus' believed crucifiction stands in place as the eternal sacrifice.

In Islam there is no symbols like this. Prophets are messengers but not put into place to forgive our take on our sins. In Islam every person will answer for their sins. Which makes abundantly more sense to me than the Christian view of one man taking on the sins of the world.

Wasalaam

 

[Bawar]

In Islam every person will answer for their sins. Which makes abundantly more sense to me than the Christian view of one man taking on the sins of the world.

In a sense, how nice it would be if that was true, that someone has already paid for our sins and we could live irresponsibly as some do (not that i do not like to be responsible), unfortunately. Could this belief be responsible for it?

The whole point of living here for each one of us is to write our own history and be accountable for it. Only thinking and capable individuals are expected to do so.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

Baarak Allaahu feeki ShyHijabi!

I couldn't remember if it was Jesus it represented, or if it was a pagan symbol. But I believe you've reminded and corrected me jazaakillaahu khayran. It was I believe, a pagan symbol that like many other practices, found it's way into Christianity after the Nicea Council. An excellent book on this subject was published by two brothers who graduated from SOAS, London.

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaam,

Brother Bawar, I think a lot of the Christian belief system (salvation basically equaling a get-out-of-jail free card) is reflected in the repeated sins Christians commit. I saw a bumbper sticker that said, "Not perfect but forgiven." So basically the Christians believe once you are "saved" that nothing will make you unsaved. You go out and kill, rape, steal and you still get to go to heaven. I find the whole belief system ridiculous frankly.

Brother Al-Kashmiri, Do you have the title of that book? I would like to read it, I am always interested in keeping abreast of how Christianity was distorted and edited by the Nicean Council. What I find even more interesting is how most Christians don't even know what the Council was and how they twisted the true message and inserted the idea of the trinity. And you were right about the lamb representing sacrifice to pagans(they sacrificed bulls, goats, etc as well)....the Christians just carried this belief as well from the Jews. So I wasn't correcting you, just adding some more info.

Wasalaam

 

[Bawar]

Wa alaikumussalam sister Sarah!
"Not perfect but forgiven."

This is scary. It is like letting a tiger out of the cage in the middle of a crowd of people. Anyeone can be the victim.

 

[mhamzah]

Salaam,

Brother Bawar, I think a lot of the Christian belief system (salvation basically equaling a get-out-of-jail free card) is reflected in the repeated sins Christians commit. I saw a bumbper sticker that said, "Not perfect but forgiven." So basically the Christians believe once you are "saved" that nothing will make you unsaved. You go out and kill, rape, steal and you still get to go to heaven. I find the whole belief system ridiculous frankly.



Wasalaam

:salam2:


Sister please don't generalise like that. Christians don't believe that, that you can go to Church on sunday and sin the rest of the week. We often complaint (and rightly so) that any bad action done by any Muslim does not represent Islam. Surely we would like to hear that.

This is not what they believe (there might be some, I don't know). That's not the language of the Quran, it does not generalise when refering to the Jews and Christians, that is why you will see phrases like 'Among them are', 'Some of them' or 'A party among them' or 'those who'.

Not all of them are alike: of the people of the book are a portion that stand (For the right): they rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration. (3:113)

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

mhamzah I don't think that is what the sister meant; she wasn't generalising, she was speaking about their creed and what can be logically and rationally deduced from it. The point is, their belief in the salvation of `Isa and them being forgiven, in essence denotes that they can do what they want. It is a rational deduction made from this creed of theirs. While some Christians will see it wrong to do these bad deeds, a number of them don't, or at least think they're automatically forgiven when they commit them.

ShyHijabi, the book is called "Before Nicea The Early Followers of Prophet Jesus", by Abdul-Haq Al-Ashanti and Abdur-Rahmaan Bowes, published by Jamiah Media, 2005. Prior to print it was an e-book but now only parts of it can be found in pdf format. I still have the e-book somewhere which I can try to locate inshaa' Allaah... If you have trouble finding it let me know.

 

[Ladybug3478]

As-salaamu `alaykum.

I don't think it represents anything. May I enquire why you're asking? I believe in some pagan cultures it symbolised sacrifice. But such representations of this nature do not exist within Islaam.

Hello Al-Kashmiri,

I ask this because of my dreams. I mean I know Muslims sacrifice lambs and sheeps etc... I'm basically trying to figure out messages from my dreams - that's all. Can you go to the post 'Wierd Dreams' toward the end to see what I'm talking about and let me know your thoughts?


Much appreciated.

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello Abdalilah,

Do you know Abraham and Ismael's dream in detail? Is there anything in detail (other than the dream instructed them to do so) about the dream?

Thanks

 

[BigAk]

The crucifixion and atonment is an ancient story of a god of Persia named Mithras who was born 600 BC. Mithra was also known to be the lamb of god who died to take away the sins of the world. This Persian god was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind. He was born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. Google it.

What a coincident huh??

.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

The crucifixion and atonment is an ancient story of a god of Persia named Mithras who was born 600 BC. Mithra was also known to be the lamb of god who died to take away the sins of the world. This Persian god was slain upon the cross to make atonement for mankind. He was born on the twenty-fifth day of December, and crucified on a tree. Google it.

What a coincident huh??

.

Jazaak Allaahu khayran.

The book I mentioned in my earlier post has some detail on this.

Ladybug, have you thought about contacting scholars who know about dream interpretation?

Was-salaam

 

[BigAk]

As-salaamu `alaykum

mhamzah I don't think that is what the sister meant; she wasn't generalising, she was speaking about their creed and what can be logically and rationally deduced from it. The point is, their belief in the salvation of `Isa and them being forgiven, in essence denotes that they can do what they want. It is a rational deduction made from this creed of theirs. While some Christians will see it wrong to do these bad deeds, a number of them don't, or at least think they're automatically forgiven when they commit them.

ShyHijabi, the book is called "Before Nicea The Early Followers of Prophet Jesus", by Abdul-Haq Al-Ashanti and Abdur-Rahmaan Bowes, published by Jamiah Media, 2005. Prior to print it was an e-book but now only parts of it can be found in pdf format. I still have the e-book somewhere which I can try to locate inshaa' Allaah... If you have trouble finding it let me know.

Kashmiri.. I am very interested in the e-book version.. Please see if you can find it.. I have an iPod that is basically attached to my body and I'm constantly thirsty for new books. Jazak Allah khair. I await your response.

.

 

[ShyHijabi]

As-salaamu `alaykum

mhamzah I don't think that is what the sister meant; she wasn't generalising, she was speaking about their creed and what can be logically and rationally deduced from it. The point is, their belief in the salvation of `Isa and them being forgiven, in essence denotes that they can do what they want. It is a rational deduction made from this creed of theirs. While some Christians will see it wrong to do these bad deeds, a number of them don't, or at least think they're automatically forgiven when they commit them.

[\QUOTE]

Salaam,

Thank you brother, this is what I meant. I am not generalizing but rather drawing a deduction from them the Nicean creed, something all Christians must state they belive in order ot be Christian. (trinity, salvation through believing Isa died for their sins, etc.,) Christians teach that this salvation covers everything and that no matter what happens, they go to heaven if they are "saved."

Don't believe me? Ask any Christian of any denomination if salvation is eternal, everyone of them will affirm it. I didn't say they all kill, steal and other stuff, I said they believe that no matter what that salvation removes that sin and they go to heaven. And salvation is a one time deal.

Wasalaam

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello,

Thanks so much. There is a lot to learn. Yeah, I heard of such things about the stories being remade but, kind of coughed it up to maybe people don't understand. But, I see maybe it is that I don't understand and I need to really research this.

Thanks

 

[mhamzah]

[\QUOTE]

Salaam,

Thank you brother, this is what I meant. I am not generalizing but rather drawing a deduction from them the Nicean creed, something all Christians must state they belive in order ot be Christian. (trinity, salvation through believing Isa died for their sins, etc.,) Christians teach that this salvation covers everything and that no matter what happens, they go to heaven if they are "saved."

Don't believe me? Ask any Christian of any denomination if salvation is eternal, everyone of them will affirm it. I didn't say they all kill, steal and other stuff, I said they believe that no matter what that salvation removes that sin and they go to heaven. And salvation is a one time deal.

Wasalaam[/QUOTE]

:salam2:

Sorry sister, my apologises. I got that one wrong.