Erdogan, a great Islamic figure

[saif]

:salam2:

Thank you sister for posting the Biography of Erdogan and for your du'a for him for bringing islam to the turkish society. I have seen nothing going off-the-track here. People start threads like "How old are you", or "Where do you live" or "More sisters than brothers", which have nothing at all to do with Islam or muslims. We never object on those threads. Here, a sister has posted a biography of a man, who by the will of 75 Million muslims have been assigned the task to lead a muslim land, and we think we are going off-the-track? We don't want to know about the man, who is politically leading 75 Million muslims but we are interested to know, whether there are more women coming to this site or men.

Maybe some poeple just misunderstood, that you were introducing him as a scholar of Islam. I didn't see that happening. Scholars are scholars and they have their place and political leaders are political leaders and they have also their place and they are not any less important than the scholars.

Brother path_of_salaf, brother Mr.Muslim was actually calling you to the real path of salaf regarding the rulers. Google "Manhaj of correcting the rulers" and you will know, what the path of salaf in this regard is. Although, I have some differences on that manjah, so I always call it path of salafis. But at least, you being a salafi should remain true to that manhaj and shouldn't be disrespectful to your ruler in public.

Regarding the hadith, "A'maalukum 'Ummalukum", I hold the opinion, that it applies hundred percent, where will of the society is decisive about the rulers. So he can just be as good as the turkish society. And mashaAllah, I have good hopes about the turkish society. To be honest, I have more hopes from the turks than many other muslim nations.

Regarding your complain about too less Salafis and about the land being full of whatever, I would recommend to read the following quote by Sheikh ibn Uthaymeen:

"Salafiyyah in the sense of being a particular party with its distinguishing characteristics and in which the members regard everyone else as misguided, these people have nothing to do with Salafiyyah at all. As for the Salafiyyah which means following the path of the Salaf in belief, word and deed, in calling for unity and harmony and mutual compassion and love, as the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The likeness of the believers in their mutual love, mercy and compassion is that of a single body; when one part of it is suffering the rest of the body joins it in fever and staying awake” -- this is the true Salafiyyah. End quote.

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

As-salaamu `alaykum

Akhi saif, I agree on the thread issue on how there are plenty of useless threads (which I would be more than happy to delete), whereas more important topics get turned. But I have to say, no Salafi hates the Muslims. A Salafi who hates Muslims is hardly Salafi at all. Perhaps you're referring to those who ascribe themselves to the Salaf but whose actions and stances towards x, y and z issues would suggest otherwise, in the same way Ibn `Uthaymeen referred to them in the quote. What you're saying equates to "Sunnee hating Muslims", it doesn't make sense. There's a clear distinction between the pure path of the Salaf and Sahabah, and behaving rashly, carelessly and showing bigotry in the name of Salafism...

Was-salaam

 

[Asja]

As-salaamu `alaykum

Akhi saif, I agree on the thread issue on how there are plenty of useless threads (which I would be more than happy to delete), whereas more important topics get turned. But I have to say, no Salafi hates the Muslims. A Salafi who hates Muslims is hardly Salafi at all. Perhaps you're referring to those who ascribe themselves to the Salaf but whose actions and stances towards x, y and z issues would suggest otherwise, in the same way Ibn `Uthaymeen referred to them in the quote. What you're saying equates to "Sunnee hating Muslims", it doesn't make sense. There's a clear distinction between the pure path of the Salaf and Sahabah, and behaving rashly, carelessly and showing bigotry in the name of Salafism...

Was-salaam

:salam2:

I would like to ask please, does anyone have knowledge to explain me the sententces above which are in bold. InshAllah. Allah is my Witness that I do not understand.It is confusing me, becuase I have never heared for something like this before.

JazzakAllah khair

May Allah guide us all.



EDIT

Who are the Salafis and who are Muslims???

Who are now Sunnees???

Why they are mentioned in the context of two completaly diffrent things???

Who are x, y and z. Where do we belong here???

Who am I and million of others Muslims. Am I and we not enough Muslims becouse we call ourselfe Muslims only or should we call ourselves with some other, specific names Astagfirullah???

Where is our Ummah today established upon the truth of Quran and Sunnah???

Why do we call ourselfes with diffrent names.

Muslim is the one who foolows Quran and Sunnah and teachings of righteous Schoolars(who are also teaching according with Quran and Sunnah without bringing inovations in Islam). Is this so hard to understand. Islam is not hard, but easy Allhamdulilah. It is simple and logical. What is hard to understand here???

All good I said is from Allah only, all wrong I said is from me only.

May Allah guide us all.Ameen

Assalamu Allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

 

[saif]

As-salaamu `alaykum

Akhi saif, I agree on the thread issue on how there are plenty of useless threads (which I would be more than happy to delete), whereas more important topics get turned. But I have to say, no Salafi hates the Muslims. A Salafi who hates Muslims is hardly Salafi at all. Perhaps you're referring to those who ascribe themselves to the Salaf but whose actions and stances towards x, y and z issues would suggest otherwise, in the same way Ibn `Uthaymeen referred to them in the quote. What you're saying equates to "Sunnee hating Muslims", it doesn't make sense. There's a clear distinction between the pure path of the Salaf and Sahabah, and behaving rashly, carelessly and showing bigotry in the name of Salafism...

Was-salaam

:salam2: akhi al Kashmiri,

I didn't mean anything else than what you have said. I have edited my post to avoid any further misunderstanding.

How can I criticize striving to remain on the path of the Salaf. But I do criticize the same behaviour, which respected sheikh ibn Uthaymeen has also criticized: thinking, only we are the correct muslims and all others are either kuffaar or ahl al bid'a.

Most muslims believe in the shahadah and they have nothing to do with discussions of the sufis like wahdat ul wujood etc. To me they have all the right being loved and respected as muslim brothers and sisters. Just because sufis were more effective in spreading Islam in certain places is not the fault of normal people. What I condemn is the contempt in the behaviour for other fellow muslims. And then when they quote that hadith about 73 sects, call themselves the saved sect, and see those fellow muslims going to hell..... I can just shake my head.

It is good, that scholars have made lists of the basic beliefs and I see no problem in discussions to get to the correct beliefs. However, slight differences among muslims do not make them deserve to be treated with contempt. I found it very nice that in another thread brother islamicfajr has explained the difference between different groups of muslims, thereby criticizing others in a nice fashion. From the very start, when it says, for example, "Deobanis are a group of muslims, which...", then I get the feeling they are dealing with their differences in a brotherly manner, recognizing others as their muslim brothers. I am not calling upon being careless about the differences.

Although it is true, that basic beliefs are the most important part of our deen but alhamdulillah most of the muslims have so small differences, that the animosity towards other muslims, which I sometimes see in TTI, has really no ground. As a small example, I was given a small booklet of basic beliefs on my return from Hajj, written by the same respected Sheikh ibn Uthaymeen. Among other things, he also mentioned the order of coming of khulafa i rashideen as a basic tenet of belief. Although, I understand that ijma' of muslims have some sanctity but i would have thought deen was completely delivered, when the Prophet asked for wittness on his last Hajj, if I have delievered the deen to you. So I differ in my opinion, if it is basic belief. Will you now call me kaafir? In another thread I have admired asharis for being careful about fixing the meaning of verses about hands and eyes of Allah, where as I have no doubt, that they also read those verses and believe in their truthfulness. Does that make me deserve to be treated with contempt, as if I was a non-muslim? I know, your answer is no. So you may consider one position to be the truth, and I would never start a fight on that. It is the contemptuous behaviour with other fellow muslims, which sadens me.

 

[Mrmuslim]

Salaam alikom

correct islam is not sufizm or democrat-liberal islamic ideology !!! correct islam is ahl sunnah wal jamaa !!!

we dont need harun yahya's so called scientific explanations againist the athesit/darwinist people. quran and sunnah is enough for us. who are we? we are ahl ul hadith

Salam Alikom,
And I didn't say anything against the sun-nah, my point is did we do anything to teach people the correct sun nah? we just try to judge people and tell them they are wrong which very easy to do. Do we spend the time to teach people the correct sun-nah starting with our family, friends etc ?

i will not argue with my brothers and i know that they will not argue with me...if we are salafi Muslims why will we argue with each other?

but we always meet with innovators. and i think you only defend heretic, anti-sunni groups without a info.

I am defending anti sunni group ? I just asked have you done anything to help them? each and every group of Muslims have mistakes now days, even people who call them self salafi they have their own mistakes, Sheikh Bin Baz even advised not to use the word Salafi too much. Because we as Muslims should on on the sun-nah of the prophet peace be up on him and Quran, using this word by it self make people misunderstand the True Islam. We understand what Salaf means but people dont. We should teach the sunnah and show them the Biddah first.
May Allah guide us and them.

 

[justoneofmillion]

:salam2:These sectarian issues are the main reason that is keeping me more and more alienated from speaking about Islam with muslim!I de rather talk about it with non Muslims with a virgin mind.

People keep arguing about peanuts ,on whose right whose wrong ,vain talk instead of bringing up some practical benefit to the Ummah and a compassionate contribution to humanity.I ve heard some much people forgetting their humanity while claiming righteousness, neglecting mildness while claiming to love. So much distress caused by people s most creative acrobatics to define the angles to the walls of their self inflicted apartheid mentalities, that i wonder sometimes if The book was revealed for it be buried or for it to be lived.

Mind you am a muslim.If i wasn t one i de be really wondering about the marketing frame we are using in this regard.From one side we denounce the consume tendencies of some societies ,yet we adopt them by consuming words without their meanings and making publicity for personalities,we think are infallible astagrfirullah.And some people if they do not do that, think they are lesser Muslims or if they don t belong to a group or another than others will despite them what is this?you call this Islam,beware that only Allah swt can look into hearts,and he won t let a soul bear unjustly what it can not,out of his mercy!exactly the same soul that be alone in front of him.We are not here to judge but to give advice.We are not here to condemn but to extend the word of mercy and compassion.We wont leave nothing constructive to the future generations if we carry on stigmatizing instead of contributing to the healing.

Let s not fool ourselves by giving the few good deeds we might have collected to those we ve wronged , oppressed or unjustly accused, cause we won t get em back in the day of judgment.And we don t hold the keys to heaven he does! it is Shirk to pretend or act otherwise.

Indeed you dont see love without it s action,You don t see the air you breath without acknowledging it s life sustaining power,and certainly you won t see Allah swt without acknowledging your duty of respecting his creatures and all his creation.I don t know folks but the more am with some Muslims the more i wanna take refuge in Allah swt from them and let him talk to me through his word,instead of hearing some disheartening remarks i de rather exchange quantity with some quality.

I mean no harm and i ll never claim superiority. Am just acknowledging maybe that sensitivity is neither a weakness nor sin and that insight not a path closer to fire but an open arm to give love the least necessary reason to be.Allah swt guide us all.

Wassalaam
Jamil

Wassalaam
Jamil

 

[Asja]

:salam2: akhi al Kashmiri,

I didn't mean anything else than what you have said. I have edited my post to avoid any further misunderstanding.

How can I criticize striving to remain on the path of the Salaf. But I do criticize the same behaviour, which respected sheikh ibn Uthaymeen has also criticized: thinking, only we are the correct muslims and all others are either kuffaar or ahl al bid'a.

Most muslims believe in the shahadah and they have nothing to do with discussions of the sufis like wahdat ul wujood etc. To me they have all the right being loved and respected as muslim brothers and sisters. Just because sufis were more effective in spreading Islam in certain places is not the fault of normal people. What I condemn is the contempt in the behaviour for other fellow muslims. And then when they quote that hadith about 73 sects, call themselves the saved sect, and see those fellow muslims going to hell..... I can just shake my head.

It is good, that scholars have made lists of the basic beliefs and I see no problem in discussions to get to the correct beliefs. However, slight differences among muslims do not make them deserve to be treated with contempt. I found it very nice that in another thread brother islamicfajr has explained the difference between different groups of muslims, thereby criticizing others in a nice fashion. From the very start, when it says, for example, "Deobanis are a group of muslims, which...", then I get the feeling they are dealing with their differences in a brotherly manner, recognizing others as their muslim brothers. I am not calling upon being careless about the differences.

Although it is true, that basic beliefs are the most important part of our deen but alhamdulillah most of the muslims have so small differences, that the animosity towards other muslims, which I sometimes see in TTI, has really no ground. As a small example, I was given a small booklet of basic beliefs on my return from Hajj, written by the same respected Sheikh ibn Uthaymeen. Among other things, he also mentioned the order of coming of khulafa i rashideen as a basic tenet of belief. Although, I understand that ijma' of muslims have some sanctity but i would have thought deen was completely delivered, when the Prophet asked for wittness on his last Hajj, if I have delievered the deen to you. So I differ in my opinion, if it is basic belief. Will you now call me kaafir? In another thread I have admired asharis for being careful about fixing the meaning of verses about hands and eyes of Allah, where as I have no doubt, that they also read those verses and believe in their truthfulness. Does that make me deserve to be treated with contempt, as if I was a non-muslim? I know, your answer is no. So you may consider one position to be the truth, and I would never start a fight on that. It is the contemptuous behaviour with other fellow muslims, which sadens me.

Assalamu Allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Jazzak Allah khair dear brother for saying the truth and helping us to understand what has been said in posts above.

I hope brother Al-Kashmiri has red your reply and learnt from your knowledge InshAllah.

May Allah reword you with all what is good.Ameen summa ameen

Wa Allaicumu Sallam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

 

[Al-Kashmiri]

:salam2:

I would like to ask please, does anyone have knowledge to explain me the sententces above which are in bold. InshAllah. Allah is my Witness that I do not understand.It is confusing me, becuase I have never heared for something like this before.

JazzakAllah khair

May Allah guide us all.



EDIT

Who are the Salafis and who are Muslims???

Who are now Sunnees???

Why they are mentioned in the context of two completaly diffrent things???

Who are x, y and z. Where do we belong here???

Who am I and million of others Muslims. Am I and we not enough Muslims becouse we call ourselfe Muslims only or should we call ourselves with some other, specific names Astagfirullah???

Where is our Ummah today established upon the truth of Quran and Sunnah???

Why do we call ourselfes with diffrent names.

Muslim is the one who foolows Quran and Sunnah and teachings of righteous Schoolars(who are also teaching according with Quran and Sunnah without bringing inovations in Islam). Is this so hard to understand. Islam is not hard, but easy Allhamdulilah. It is simple and logical. What is hard to understand here???

All good I said is from Allah only, all wrong I said is from me only.

May Allah guide us all.Ameen

Assalamu Allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Wa`alaykum us-salaam warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh

Sorry for not clarifying this earlier and thank you for being patient with me. I was trying to show brother saif why that statement is not safe, and the reality of what it could mean, despite his intentions. He understood and edited his post, walhamdulillaah (hence I should've edited mine). My post was not a form of bigotry to anyway, or a defense of the characteristics saif addressed. However, I've noticed that lately, our brother saif has been mentioning this issue and what it relates to, in various threads, and I wonder why (I can't say I've looked over the threads well enough to discern why)?

Regarding your edited text in red, then I'm sorry, I cannot clarify every single point of yours, because I believe that if you simply understand what I meant, the whole red text of yours would be void. Nothing was mentioned in opposing contexts.

Simply put, I was informing the brother that criticising the 'salafi', is the same as criticising any sunni muslim. So I was telling the brother that it is better to use another term/method, for what he was saying, indirectly criticises all of our celebrated imams and sahaabah since the Muslim scholars of the past such as Adh-Dhahabi, described the scholars, devout Muslims as 'salafi', so would he be criticising them too?

However, saif was merely referring to some people who use this term, but show opposition to it's meaning in some way or fashion (which is what i meant by x, y and z), usually a sectarian one. That's all fine or dandy with us, but when expressed in a bad way, it creates stereotypes, clouds the truth and creates more confusion and harm than good. I think we have seen plenty of discussions that allude to this, which is why it's time to move on.

If there is anything you still don't understand from my speech, maybe Saif can help you, because it seems that he doesn't disagree with a letter from that particular post of mine. Hence, your questions could theoretically apply to him in the same way they apply to me...

And akhi saif, I would reply to your post but you have already responded on my behalf, "I know, your answer is no." The contemptuous behaviour drives me too. Sometimes I feel certain people need flogging for it.

Anyway, I feel this needs a closure now. But it depends on whether the next post is related to Erdogan or not...

Was-salaam

 

[Asja]

Wa`alaykum us-salaam warahmatullaahi wabarakaatuh

Sorry for not clarifying this earlier and thank you for being patient with me. I was trying to show brother saif why that statement is not safe, and the reality of what it could mean, despite his intentions. He understood and edited his post, walhamdulillaah (hence I should've edited mine).

Regarding your edited text in red, then I'm sorry, I cannot clarify every single point of yours, because I believe that if you simply understand what I meant, the whole red text of yours would be void. Nothing was mentioned in opposing contexts.


If there is anything you still don't understand from my speech, maybe Saif can help you, because it seems that he doesn't disagree with a letter from that particular post of mine. Hence, your questions could theoretically apply to him in the same way they apply to me...


Was-salaam

Assalamu Allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Jazzak Allah khair dear brother

Dear brother when I have red your post, I was not even close in understanding it as much as I tryed, and this is the reason of editing my post and adding the questions I wanted to ask for better understanding.

Allhamdullilah brother Saifs post was very usefull for me and helped me to understand the isue better. InshAllah for that what I do not understand I will ask brother Saif as he is able to explain everything in the way that leaves no confussion and more questions after it. And Allah knows the best.

I am glade to hear that opinions of my two dear brothers in Islam are having the same message and that they are in agreement. May Allah bless you both and reword you for your efforts in being better Muslims and helping to others.Ameen summa ameen


EDIT:

In my opinion and I think that many would agree with me, Erdogan is great leader who knows how to stand for his country, but other countries as well, and protect its interests. He has been very succesfull in international politics, as in the political so as in the economic plan. This has brought many benefits to Turkey but elso to huge part of Muslim world. We dont have the right to judge him how good Muslim he is or not. This right belongs to Allah only and He will judge us all. However we have right to point on his mistake and evaluate his polotics actions and decisions.

Regarding the photo where Erdogan shakes hand with the Israel P.M. and the statemant that it shows everything in the negative contest, I will dissagree with it, becouse to leaders of every country(in this case Erdogan who is the leader of one "Muslim country") is aloowed to conclude contracts with the leaders of other countries which are refered on political, economical, international,legal questions etc.

Do not judge book by its cover

And Allah knows the best

May Allah guide us all and have mercy upon us.Ameen

Wa Allaicumu Sallam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

 

[safiya58]

thank you very much...your subject is enough i think.

erdoğan is not an islamic leader or scholar, he is a "democrat/liberal islamic" politician. also a confidence man. he has one god : money, more money !

and his origin is sufii/naqshibendi...

i live in turkey, my country's population nearly 75 million. unfortunately most of the people are ignorent. there is no prayer no islamic rituel. but everyone say "i am muslim" secularism is in everywhere... there is no salafi population except a few little groups. turkish people's creed is quburi/sufi superstitions :-(

:salam2:

may there are people in turkey who fall in the category you have described and who have gone astray. (May Allah guide them.) Still you can not generallize. There are also very pious muslims among the turks. We don´t have to call us salafi. We are muslims following the sunnah.

 

[rightpath_357]

Wow!!!!! That's a lot of infromation sis!!!!

JazakAllah Khair for posting!!!!!