How does Yeshua fulfil the law

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by Cariad, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Yeshua said He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfil it.. How does Yeshua accomplish this? Firstly what is the "Law" is it simply a list of do's and don'ts.. And by keeping the do's and avoiding the don'ts we are assured of Gods favour. Yet, we cannot keep the law, no matter how hard we try it is not possible for mankind to keep every jot of the law perfectly. As God is perfect then we would have to keep to the law perfectly if it is to have any benefit to us in eternity.

    The law is a manifestation of the perfect holiness of God, and was given to us (humanity) to show how utterly unable we are to meet God's standard by our own means, strength or works. It shows us our sinfulness as a contrast to God's holiness. Old Testament saints who were called righteous relied upon the grace of God for their right standing with God... not their success at keeping the law. Because we know they sometimes failed in this.

    When Jesus is said to have fulfilled the law, it means that He perfectly kept the law of God, and never sinned. This was therefore... as Christians believe, a manifestation of and testimony to His deity. Obviously something no other man could possibly do as only God is unblemished by sin.

    He didn't come to abolish the law means that the law remains the law and is (still) perfect. Even after we enter the New Covenant in Jesus' blood which places believers under grace not under law, therefore in a sense abolishing the law for believers, the law remains as a testament of God's holiness and our inability to meet His standard. Something that remains true even after conversion.

    Christians understand that Yeshua never sinned, and therefore that He is God.. In essence and nature (something I know is awful for muslims to hear) but I explain how from a Christian perspective we see His being sinless was the reason for the Virgin birth, without this the crucifixion is meaningless. As a result of His sinless being, it also means His sacrifice was a full (infinite) payment for sin, and therefore that the just punishment for transgression of the law (of all believers) was fulfilled too. He fulfilled the law for us, because we couldn't. He didn't come to abolish the law, because He didn't just say "the law no longer applies", He came to pay the penalty for the breaking of the law.

    For example as a way to understand this is to compare it to the difference between cancelling ("forgiving") a debt, and paying the debt. In one, payment is made which fulfills the obligations of the debt, and in the other payment is withheld and the obligations of the debt are not met. This is an important point because it shows that God's justice is not violated in dispensing mercy and forgiveness to believers. God remains just while at the same time able to show mercy to sinners. Something that is present in no other belief system outside of biblical christianity.

    That's how we see Yeshua fulfilled the law, He didn't simply abolish it.
  2. cabdixakim
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    cabdixakim Junior Member

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    Greetings,

    The last paragraph seems to be solely based on Logic so I've the rights to take my share of the logic offered :)

    yes, paying the debt and cancelling it out have separate meanings and are two different things in essence even though their end result is the same from the perspective of the debtor!

    But according to the Creditor, they both imply the same according to your reasoning: as for the creditor, there is no fulfillment of obligations In both cases.

    If any thing here is your reasoning: in order for the creditor to feel that his obligations towards the debts which ssomeone owed him has been fulffilled, he must give out a value equal to the debt and anything less means no obligations of debt to him. In other words, the creditor offers a credit and when the debtor is subdued by the debt, the creditor settles the scores by giving out more! the giver Is him and the payer back is also him! :)

    upto here I'm on track except for one thing: I can see that the creditor must give out more, to whom is he paying the extra, merciful credit (to cancel out his credit) to? To himself? Then doesn't that mean there is no obligations of the debt fulfilled since there is no payment,as this would mean "take the money from the pocket then get it back to the pocket"

    If it is not to himself...

    Then let me take an example that applies to the context other than the extra credit: to cancel out the debt in this instance, the creditor chooses to Destroy an asset equal in value to the debt, then fashion it back together and keep it close to him as ever as he did before!

    Now I understand you but the creditor And the asset sound to be two different things to me, one absolutely superior than the other!

    And thus my question In all these:Why does the creditor feel that fulfillment of the obligations of his debt can only be done through his cancelling out? So that every debtor after this famous debt has the tendency of willingly abandoning His debt whenever he feels overburdened Regardless of how enormous or little the debt is? And so that every debtor after this famous debt enjoys the fortune of keeping up with , no, perfectly fulfilling the Credential rules In advance? Then what's the need for the rules in the first place? If no one could fulfill them then what was the need for them? And does that mean debtors must not necessarily abide by the rules? If not then, why the sacrifice? Or the sacrifice was just meant for the perfection of the fulfillment? Then,doesn't that give a platform to every debtor to
    imperfect his commitments towards the rules and hence that leads to many unpaid debts as a result of the guarantee given of "breaking the rules is imperfection, abiding by them is also imperfection"? Since the sacrifice gave a sense of 'nothing they do has grave consequences',and the lack of deterrent it creates, which debtor will abide by the rules when in his mind, breaking them is always more rewarding considering the sacrifice. You got not pay the debt And the end
    is as sweet for you as one who paid it perfectly!

    Assming that I understood perfectly your post and the fulfillment of the law, that's my humble take of your last paragraph only!
    Last edited: May 10, 2015
  3. Um Ibrahim
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    Um Ibrahim Alhamdulilah :)

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    Cariad, so basically you are saying that Jesus died for all of humanity's sins, correct? How can that be possible? Why are people still committing sins then? And what is the purpose for heaven and hell if Jesus, peace be upon him died for our sins? What does it even mean when you say "died for our sins?" I'm just trying to understand from your pov.
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  4. Cariad
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    My dear, yes He died for you for all people, for all times. It is not dying for a sin committed, only we personally can answer for our own sins, the wrong that we do... for this sin we have a penalty to pay, God in His infinite mercy and love pays this penalty on our behalf... Only God can do this. Yeshua died for SIN, to pay this penalty. Sin is what separates mankind from God, Yeshua is the bridge that crosses the chasm of sin, we have Yeshua we can cross the bridge and be repentant before God.

    People will always continue to sin because it is our nature to do so, it's not possible for us to be sinless. We always have choice, we try our best to make good choices always but some times we will fail and fall to sin. At end days Yeshua ( bible say) will return in judgement of the living and the dead. Ask why people already dead need to be judged.. Yeshua says He holds the keys to death and Hades. Hades is like a Hell, in this case death means spiritual death, because the judgement is after this life is ended. The dead are those of no faith in Yeshua, like God the Father commanded us, "Yeshua, my son with whom I am pleased Hark unto Him". I can find verses if you need but I do not think there is big interest in Bible verse here so I won't bother, but that is gist of the command from God. Then Yeshua tells us He is the Way, (the way to God) He is the Truth (Gods truth) and He is the life ( eternal life). If we do not have faith in Gods provision of a Saviour we are dead in our sin. If we remain dead in our sin and are unrepentant we will not be with God. If we have no faith in God and are not repentant before His power and Glory... Then we deserve Hell. We must have faith and a repentant heart then Heaven is assured for us. Yeshua say so.

    Sin is a very big thing in the Bible, never is it said to be like a mistake. We know God hates all sin, and we cannot presume to know what degree God sees sin. Little, big.. All same as all is sin, God may judge minor sin less harshly but still it is a sin in His eyes. God has to be just, because God is Holy and must live up to His Holiness. God always is according to His nature. If God does not apply penalty then divine justice is compromised, the death of Yeshua as lamb of God, penalty is paid and Gods need for justice is served and Gods grace and mercy is fulfilled.

    God is perfect, God solution for our problem is perfect. God knows best. It doesn't matter that you don't believe this of God, it is how God reveals Himself to us in the Bible. Starting with Adam, and through all the prophets to Yeshua. God gives you a different way. It does not make the same sense to me as it does to you, maybe we view sin differently.

    Blessings

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