Serious How to glorify our Lord.

Discussion in 'Muslim <---> Christian Dialogue' started by a_stranger, Feb 24, 2016.

  1. a_stranger
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    a_stranger Junior Member

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    Peace for all,
    Please ponder in the creation around you, heavens, earth, sun, moon, people, animals, plants, mountains, oceans .............etc. Try to feel the greatness, power,
    majesty of the creator. How can a creature be comparable or part of this absolute holiness.
    Then understand:

    Subhana Rabbika Rabbil 'izzati 'amma yasifun. Wa salamun 'alal-Mursalin. Wal hamdu lillahi Rabbil 'alamun.


    Translation:

    Thy Lord is Holy and clear of all that is alleged against Him (by the non-believers); and He is Exalted. May God's blessing be upon all Messengers. All praise truly belongs to Allah Who is the Sustainer of all the worlds.



    a. Subhan Allah: i.e; Holy is Allah, free from all defects

    b. Alhamdu Lillah: i.e; All praise belongs to Allah

    c. Allahu Akbar: I .e., Allah is the Greatest
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  2. a_stranger
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    Subhan Allah
    The words of tasbeeh, “Subhaan Allah”, incorporate one of the greatest fundamental meanings of Tawheed and one of the basic principles of belief in Allah , may He be glorified and exalted, which is declaring Him to be above any fault, shortcoming, corrupt notions or false idea.
    So tasbeeh of Allah means declaring that one’s heart and mind are far removed from thinking that there is any shortcoming in Him, or attributing any evil to Him, and declaring Him to be far above any fault that is attributed to Him by ignorants.
    159. Glorified be Allah [Subhaan Allah]! (He is free) from what they attribute unto Him!”

    [al-Saffaat 37:158-159]

    “He is Allah, beside Whom Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the King, the Holy, the One Free from all defects, the Giver of security, the Watcher over His creatures, the All‑Mighty, the Compeller, the Supreme. Glory be to Allah! (High is He) above all that they associate as partners with Him”

    [al-Hashr 59:23]
  3. a_stranger
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    A man came to Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) and said:

    Laa ilaaha ill-Allah” we know: there is no god other than Him. “Al-hamdu Lillaah” we know: all blessings come from Him and He is the One Who to be praised for them. “Allahu akbar” we know: there is nothing greater than Him. But what does “Subhaan Allah” mean?

    He said: This is a word that Allah has approved for Himself, and has enjoined His angels to say, and inspired the elite of His creation to utter.
  4. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Dear a_stranger, I struggle to understand who these words - above all that they associate as partners with Him” - were meant for. :( that you post in christian / muslim dialogue I fear you may be applying this to christians. But it's not so. We KNOW our almighty God has no partners. We have always known this truth our scriptures tell us so.
  5. a_stranger
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    Dear Cariad ,
    First I apologize for any misunderstanding but this concept of tawheed (oneness of Allah ) is very important and essential to know our creator , we need it badly to have pure sincere hearts.
    You said in a post :(I believe Yeshua showed a small part of that God to me, and I believe one day at Gods will I will know in full what I now know in part. )
    Your words remind me of a verse in Quran it is translated as follows:

    (15) 15 - Yet they attribute to some of His servants a share with Him (in His godhead)! Truly is man a blasphemous ingrate avowed!

    I believe that Quran if understood purify our hearts absolutely and full them with the light of Allah ( the one God).
    With deep respect
  6. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Dear Sister,
    I can understand your view, but I do not understand why such things are in the Qur'an if the Qur'an is said to be Gods word. Does God not know all? The Bible does not show Yeshua to have "a share" with God, and christians do not believe God "shares" his glory with a creation.

    This is what I find a confusion for me. Because it appears like a reaction towards a misconception of God/Son as revealed in the Bible. We are clear God is One, God does not share His glory with creation. (Although His glory is reflected in creation ... But that is different thing altogether. ) Gods word is God not a creation of God. God did not create His word, it always existed as God existed. If it did not how would God bring creation into being by His word. Yeshua is Gods word.

    I don't want you to think I'm being pedantic with this. But please understand just as you see Tawheed as important and essential to your understanding of God. I wish to make you understand that how God revealed Himself through previous scriptures is crucial to my worship and my salvation also. I appreciate your kindness and patience in explaining things.

    Blessings
  7. a_stranger
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    Dear Cariad please can you make the following statement clear , I find it very confusing :do you believe in that:

    The Bible states that Jesus is "the image of the invisible God...by him all things were created...."4 Jesus was crucified for blasphemy -- for clearly identifying himself as equal to God -- which he was.
  8. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Yes dear, I do. Man has not seen God in His heavenly form and glory, but we have seen His image in Yeshua, not in the physical body of Yeshua but rather in His actions and teachings. When the early disciples worshipped Yeshua, they were not sinning because they were worshiping God. Yeshua accepted their worship as He did the worship of others. He never castigated people when they worshipped Him. By Him all things were created ... As Gods word all things were created, Yeshua is Gods word. The Pharisees of the day clearly believed Yeshua showed He was equal with God by His words and actions.. If they did not, they would not have charged Him with blasphemy.

    I see this from the Bible, not just the Gospels in the New Testament but also through the teachings of all the prophets in the Old Testament. You don't see this or see it this way or maybe even understand how it can be so as it is opposite of what you have been taught and yourself believe as truth. Well, maybe it's not Gods will that you see or understand this. As it's not Gods will I see and understand Islam and the Qur'an. Maybe God reveals Himself differently to some, I don't know. I do know there is only ONE true God and I believe we share that One same God but that we perceive Him differently due to our respective scriptures.

    All the stuff about claims of Bible corruption which muslims make today I don't believe is a belief always held. But relatively recent.. Like Middle Ages time. I don't believe your prophet thought the previous scriptures were corrupted or that the Qur'an is clear on the charge either.
  9. a_stranger
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    I ask Allah for forgiveness (astagfur Allah ), dear Cariad ,Allah ( The one true God) sent his messengers to show people how to worship and glorify God ( they were the perfect example). Your argument made me understand Quran better. I understand now why Quran concentrate on sincerity and purity of hearts why we should feel his power in creation , sustaining, life and death .........etc, satan played his role in deviating hearts of creatures from the true creator to his creature. Now you do'nt have a true relation with God. When hearts are spoiled with falsehood how can it be directed to God sincerily .Please read Quran with a heart and try to understand the message. I am sure you will be a true follower of Jesus :Yeshua:Issa peace be upon him and a sincere servant of GOD.

    GOD BLESS YOU DEAR.
  10. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    Do not call Yeshua a creature please. I don't mind that you can't understand or choose not to. I see that because you don't know Yeshua, He is nothing like Isa you have in the Qur'an. There are none of Yeshuas teachings in the Qur'an.. I know this I looked for them.

    All I know is God promised mankind's solution to sin would come from the seed of woman, The prophets taught that the Messiah would be that promised seed. Yeshua said He is the promised Messiah come to take the sins of mankind. he said He came to die that we may live and He was the way to God the Father and eternal life. Only one wishes to turn the souls away from eternal joy with God and that is Satan the father of lies and ruler of this world of sin. What better way to turn those from God than to deny the very means that God gave for mankind to once more be made righteous in Gods sight.. Belief on Yeshua. When I see accounts attributed to Yeshua in the Qur'an that have no provenance at all and originally from unknown authors that were not even alive when Yeshua was so they knew Him not. It makes big doubt in my mind. When I see dangerous theology that God can just forgive any sin He wish to if we are just repentant it makes me wonder is it even YHWH the God of Abraham we share! Yet I do not even like that thought in my head, and prefer to think yes it is the same one almighty God we share and we just perceive that God differently.

    We can never know who is right or wrong, obviously we cannot both be right because Islam is diametrically opposed to christianity on many quite important facts. These differences have the power to effect our eternal destination. Now as you feel positively absolutely sure you have the truth in Muhammed and Islam I feel the same way about my faith in Yeshua and christianity. I often read the Qur'an because one must always be sure to leave no stone unturned when it comes to truth. I wonder have you ever read the Bible. Or even know what Yeshua said about Himself. :(

    Anyway I don't want a post to you to be harsh as you are a kindness and not deserving of harshness. I apologise if some points I make seem that way, but I try to explain what I feel. Instead of concentrating on our differences and how I perceive Yeshua as being wrong, maybe best if we concentrate on similarities.. That we both love God and seek to do His will.

    Peace and God bless.
  11. cabdixakim
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    Greeting @Cariad

    Remember all this began with you,strangely, objecting why such phrases as " Glory be to Allah( High is He) above all that they associate with Him as partners" are found in the Qur-an ... and as if you now speak for each individual who associates partners with Allah you claim no one associates partners with Him(be it the readers of the bible or the ordinary christian)

    What's the word of God as understood in the bible?... you said something like " if the word did not exist always as God did, how did God made creation using it" meaning that the "word" is what God uses to create... but you then claim that Yeshua is the word of God into creation; so a counter-question; how did God make creation when the word was inform of Yeshua?

    if Yeshua is God and YHWH a God, are they not two? Because the Jews(old testament people) worship YHWH only and you worship who? Yeshua or sometimes both?... and if they're the one and the same, why is a Jew different to a christian since both should believe YHWH in Yeshua or Yeshua in YHWH?

    The messiah came as the solution of the sin carried my man as you say, I wonder why a woman has to give birth now( a fact considered to be the punishment) for a sin supposed to have been over-ruled 2000 years ago?

    But anyway, I have tried asking you these and similar questions before but to no avail so lets look at it this way...

    " God loves man but man fell for and carried a sin which as per Law of God must be punished. No one could be fit enough to fulfill such a law and so God put his word which was equal to him into creation and came down to earth to live alongside man out of love and die by the cross to fulfill the law_ while in all this he is in heaven but it was his word which was going through all that in the form of the christ..."

    This description is how I take (after I've read all that you write critically) what you believe is so bound to your heart that you can't put into words...

    But that description is fictional as it has no bases in neither the OT nor the NT(that of it considered to be words of Jesus) and it does not befit One Almighty God! And this is why the muslims keep saying the bible and the previous scriptures have been interfered with and their messages distorted... This is not what middle-age muslims came up with... it's found in the Qur'an and the prophet(p.b.u.h) believed so...(that answers your last paragraph).
  12. a_stranger
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    Dear Cariad :

    ((All I know is God promised mankind's solution to sin would come from the seed of woman, The prophets taught that the Messiah would be that promised seed. Yeshua said He is the promised Messiah come to take the sins of mankind.))
    I agree each prophet taught the solution to sin:
    First :Feeling sorry.
    Second : Ask for forgiveness .
    Third : have a firm will not to do it again.

    Please think if there were many dangerance criminals presented in front of a judge then he decided to set them free and kill his only innocent son . What would you say ?

    Justice requires that each soul is asked for what that soul earned on earth ( Quran ).No one can pay for us.I am sure this is the true message of all the prophets peace be upon them all while opening the doors of forgiveness widly after sincere repentance.

    No need dear for apologize I think that you have a pure tender heart. I should apologize, sometimes I become harsh:mad:.

    Yes I read the bible , but since my heart was directed to my creator with sincerity , it hurts me to see people think wrong about the one who created us , and turn away from him . No differance in the message . I read the history of christainty and I am sure that this idea of trinity was introduced later otherwise it is the same message of Islam.
    With love and respect.
  13. a_stranger
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    Islam taught me how to be sincere to my creator , how can I turn away??
  14. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    The word was not in the form of Yeshua? The word was made flesh (according to Gods will) IN Yeshua. not the Body of Yeshua the essence of Yeshua is the word.

    No they are not two? I don't follow what you mean... Do you think the physical being of Yeshua is like a god? How does that work? God is spirit with no substance as His Gods word the same. So maybe we need to think on is it possible for God to cause His divine word to be flesh to suit His purpose and do His will among men? Well, the Bible tells me that God is above all creation and there is nothing like unto Him. That with God anything is possible. So, for me I don't see why such a thing is not possible for God. Jews rejected Yeshua... Well not all, some. Even today some jews accept Yeshua was sent as their saviour.

    Birth pains were a consequence of the first sin of disobedience to God as for man is to toil and be main breadwinner with responsibility on his shoulders on this world. It shows the holiness of God that all sin even when forgiven carries a consequence to ourselves. After we pass from this place such things are no more.

    Sorry, I was having an off day. I took offence at your tone. I should not have, as I see you were only repeating Deedat.

    English is not my first language, and I have other issues that at times I have difficulties making my point clear. I apologise for that... but not for by belief bound to my heart... God alone will judge me for that. I think you understand what I believe well enough.

    I believe you are mistaken. In your belief that this concept is not in the Bible and also your belief that the Bible was interfered with and the message distorted. If I believed that was possible I would have to be an atheist.. For a God that chose not to protect ALL His revelations would not be a God I would trust. I don't think you have the answers, but you think you do :) but that is fine it's a state found in mankind a great deal. I don't profess to have the answers either.. (In case you think me claiming to be like a super person or something akin) I do know what feels right in my heart and what makes logical,sense to me if God is as Holy as God says He is.

    Peace.
  15. Cariad
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    Cariad Junior Member

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    But there is more to it than that. The prophets knew that sin against God also meant atonement on their part. Sin not only has a consequence to man but also to God. You think that God can just deny His holiness as our creator God and just say ok.. You are sorry I forgive you. I agree with what you say sorry... Forgiveness... And try not to do again.. But that is for us. What of Gods holiness? That is what Islam does not address for me.

    No that is not good analogy. Maybe better one the judge out of love pay the penalty instead. You are thinking (we believe) that God killed Yeshua. That is not so Yeshua came to die, it was His will as His will is Gods will. Only God can pay an infinite penalty for infinite sin against Him.

    The atonement for sin before God was a big deal for the Old Testament people's. God decreed this... So they did it. Each year particular animals were killed and their blood offered for atonement for sin of the people and of the nation. Christians belief Yeshua to be the final once and for all atonement needed. We still have to seek forgiveness, be repentant and avoid the sinning just the same. Just that Gods holiness has been justified.

    Thank you :D the Miss angry face does not suit.

    The trinity has nothing to do with the Bible. :) do not get distracted by a man made doctrine. Read Sermon of the Mount I think that sums up Yeshuas teachings in like a nut shell. :)
  16. Cariad
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    Indeed, I feel the same about christianity. No one is asking you to turn away.. Nor should you. :(

    Peace and gods love shine upon you. :)
  17. Pure-heart
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    Dear Cariad if we study Islam with a heart : the holiness of our creator becomes very clear. Through sincere prayers, purifying intentions, pondering, having Taqwa ,remembrance of Janna: Praradise and hell hearts become transparent to his holiness.
  18. Cariad
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    I do not understand what you mean by Taqwa. Janna you mean paradise ya? Or heaven. What is hell heart? And why you think my prayers as a christian may not be sincere from my heart?

    Gods holiness is not understood by prayers we offer Him but Gods holiness demands our worship. It is or should be always upper most in our minds when offering worship.
  19. Pure-heart
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    I shall try to explain according to my study of Islam :
    "Worship (Al-'Ibadah) is a comprehensive term covering everything that Allah loves and is pleased with - whether saying, or actions, outward and inward."
    [Majmu' al-Fatawa (10/149)]
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  20. Pure-heart
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    Imam Al-Qurtubi (d. 671H) - rahimahullah - said:

    "The root of 'ibadah is humility and submissiveness. The various duties that have been prescribed upon the people are called 'ibadat (acts of worship), since what is required is that these acts of worship must be done with humility and submissiveness to Allah - the Most High."
    [Al-Jami' li-Ahkamil-Qur'an (1/225), and (17/56)]
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