Is living in a non-muslim country haraam??

[mohd_osman]

I coudn't have said it better than what Mrmuslim said.

Salaam alikom I am not a Knowledgable person but

Ok If you going to leave your country where you will go? Arabic Country ..? show me one Arabic Country following the Shariah? ok lets forget about Shariah..what about Justice? mmm lets forget about Justice... What about freedome of speech? what about discrimination..? Yes all this in Muslim countries now days.
With all of the respect to the people, who says living in Non-Muslim country is haram etc. why not they tell the leaders first to be rule with justice and follow the shairah then tell the Muslim who lives in the west to come to Muslim country.

Muslim lived side by side in Spain and it wasnt at first a Muslim country and they lived in peacefull way.
I know its hard to live now days in Non Muslim countries but its harder to live in Muslim country too. In my opinion people or Muslim follow more Islamic rules in the west than in the Muslim countries because they want to be close to thier religion.

Quote from the link posted by mohd_osman
If a Muslim were to fear that he or she will lose his/her faith by living in the West, then he or she must go back and settle down where he or she can protect his or her religion.
while living in the West, they should have a sense of mission to share the message of mercy inherent in Islam with the people around them. By doing so, we are fulfilling the prophecy of our beloved Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) who said, "This mission of Islam is going to reach every nook and corner of the world."

wa salaam alikom

 

[Imad]

Assalmo alaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

May Allah Give you a chance to understand the meaning of Hijra. If you want to stay your whole live in the West, It's your choice.



Wassalmo alaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Imad

 

[Mrmuslim]

Assalmo alaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

May Allah Give you a chance to understand the meaning of Hijra. If you want to stay your whole live in the West, It's your choice.

Wassalmo alaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,
Imad

walikom salaam
Well the problem ya akhee is you dont want to accept that there are problems in our islamic countries, again I am not against going to Islamic country I really dont know how many times I will repeat the same words, if I have chance I would go but for just your info. I was born and grow up in most Islamic country so I know what I am talking about. When we start saying and pointing out whats wrong in ourself that dosnt mean I am against it, a Muslim is like a mirror to another Muslim.

and YES if Allah have decided for me to stay in west I will be here if he decide I have to go to CHINA I will be there too.

subhanAllah we Muslim dont want to admit that we have problems with our self and with the way of shariah followed in Islamic countries.

wa salaam alikom

 

[Mabsoot]

salaam alikom

Who said you can not critize the Muslim rulers, the prophet peace be up on him said

أفضل الجهاد كلمة حق عند سلطان جائر​

The best kind of jihad is the word of right at the tyrannical ruler (the oppressive government) I am not saying fight them or start causing trouble but nothing wrong in saying whats bad in our Islamic countries.
The probelm is we as Muslim try to hide our mistakes and things happenes in Islamic countries, Islamic countries are not perfect just because they are Muslim.

Assalamu Alaykum, these issues are not for ordinary people like me and you to go about explaining.

Many people quote Ayah and hadith and often do so in the wrong way. Such as the Khawarij and also other people who adopt western style mannerisms, who dilute islam with modernism. So, we must be careful especially on some matters which are of importance and great concern to the welfare of our Ummah. -

"The best kind of jihad is the word of right at the tyrannical ruler "

these are the Noble Words of our Prophet , but the explanation of hadith is not our job.

As the Muhaditheen, scholars of Hadith such as Shaykh Abdul Muhsin al Abaad stated, this means actually speaking out infront of the Ruler, face to face. This doesnt mean someone goes behind the Muslim Rulers back and says bad words about him. This hadith doesnt mean we go out on big protests and make petitions against Muslim rulers.

You must understand that excited and emotional people with lack of wisdom will achieve nothing by critisising and lamenting their Muslim rulers.

As Muslims we must always give common courtesy and respect for the Muslim ruler. He is a Muslim afterall, his status as a ruler doesnt change the way we talk to him. However, the status (i.e. Rulership) is a responsibility for him. If he abuses it, then it is he who will be questioned by Allah regarding this on Yawm al Akhirah.

This doesnt mean they can get away with crimes against their people etc, what it is based upon is the wisdom of our Noble Prophet safeguarding his followers from the repercussions of tyranical oppression.

I will say this No they dont follow the Shariah in every aspect of the life

Can any of us say we follow Shariah 100% in every single aspect of our lives? Its impossible.

For a State to be 100% Shariah? This is impossible. The Perfect rule was only under the Prophet and first 3 generation of khulafa ar Rashidoon. They were called the Rightly Guided Khulafa were they not? This has a reason, and many Ulema have written volumes of books simply about this issue.

Like i said before, we got to stick to the Quran and Sunnah, and look into how the Muslims and Ulema in the past dealt with these issues.

We are dealing with the Islamic issue of hijrah and all rules pertaining to it. THerefore we look at the issue properly. Muslim state is always going to be a Muslim state when the majority of the people are Muslims and the Ruler is a Muslim. You will find that many of the States in Islamic history did not have 100% Shariah as you would like. Some were even worse than what we have today. Think about Imam Ahmad, Ibn Taymiyyah and others who lived under oppressive rulers. They lived in Islamic States which did not favour the True Islam, which distorted the truth. For example, for Imam Ahmad, the ruler wanted to force him to say that the Quran was Created.

I have lived in and visited many countries myself, Muslim and Non-Muslim. Nobody is perfect. But, it is definitely better to be living in a Muslim country. The latter depends on circumstances,and a lot of thought and care needs to go into these things.

Question for you my dear and beloved Brother is: What would you say is 100% Shariah?

We are already weak as an Ummah, we need to stick together and be united, and call to the Quran and Sunnah.

With regards to the brother ibnAbdullah87. Hijrah, is not black and white issue of halal and haram, the scholars have made various rulings depending on the situation of the people.

Please Remember: The Case varies between people, like many Islamic rulings its important to go to a scholar and get advice.

But, it is interesting to know exactly how you envisage a person doing hijrah? There are Very few Muslim countries where you can do hijrah too. Keep in mind Hijrah is a permanent settlement. Lifetime!

Unfortunately, I dont think, in todays climate of visas and immigration rules it is possible. Would you over stay your visa? By doing so you will be doing something illegal which is a sin.... Get a job? Are there any lifetime jobs?... Even if you have your own business, many countries have backwards legislation for foreigners, some require a sponsor. I know of cases where a business to do well only for the Sponsor to take it away from the Muslim brother, and there is nothing he can do.

The sad thing is, in the midst of all the Muslim countries in the Middle East sits Israel, which allows any Jew to settle there. They give them money, land, property and even work.

Its of great importance for ALL Muslims to return to the Book of Allah and Sunnah of his messenger, for only then can we succeed and have a stronger and united Ummah. An Ummah that will not discrimate against anyone of any Race or colour and that will deal fairly with those who have different beliefs, just as the Noblest of Muslims did in the past.

wasalam.

 

[Imad]

walikom salaam
Well the problem is you dont want to accept that there are problems in our islamic countries, again I am not against going to Islamic country I really dont know how many times I will repeat the same words, if I have chance I would go but for just your info. I was born and grow up in most Islamic country so I know what I am talking about. When we start saying and pointing out whats wrong in ourself that dosnt mean I am against it, a Muslim is like a mirror to another Muslim.

and YES if Allah have decided for me to stay in west I will be here if he decide I have to go to CHINA I will be there too.

subhanAllah we Muslim dont want to admit that we have problems with our self and with the way of shariah followed in Islamic countries, we just want to follow everything blindly, even if its against shariah laws.

wa salaam alikom

Assalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabarakatuh,

My dear brother may Allah protect me , you and all my brothers and sisters in islam. I have thought many times about the problems that i will face in islamic countries. I know there are some problems which you have to face. Allah Subhanahu wata3ala has informed us that we will be tested and that we will face some problems in this live. We have to be patient and Thank Allah Subhanahu wata3ala.

وَلَنَبْلُوَنَّكُمْ حَتَّى نَعْلَمَ الْمُجَاهِدِينَ مِنكُمْ وَالصَّابِرِينَ وَنَبْلُوَ أَخْبَارَكُمِْ

( كل نفس ذائقة الموت ونبلوكم بالشر والخير فتنة ‏وإلينا ترجعون) [الأنبياء:35]

( ولنبلونكم بشيء من الخوف والجوع ونقص ‏من الأموال والأنفس والثمرات وبشر الصابرين ) [البقرة:155]

I know this , so please be carefull with your statements. Many scholars have talked about Hijra. Alhamdullilah, alhamdullilah, alhamdullilah.

I don't want to hurt your feelings. I'am sorry. Sometimes i make errors, because my english is not on level like you and brother mabsoot and others. So please forgive me.

Fi amanillah

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wabaraktuh,

Imad

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

Nightwind you are right I do live in a non-muslim country but not because I wanted to and I do not have the money to leave quit yet but I am planning to leave with in the next year or year and a half inshallah but it is a good thing that you pointed that out. It would not be fare that I preach something that I myself do not do or plan to do.

 

[Nightwind]

Assalam alaikum

I am by no means saying that it is wrong to immigrate to a Muslim country.I am saying that each person needs to weigh their own life and responsibilities and consult a scholar based upon their life before they make a rash and perhaps foolish decision. Migrating for Allah must be for the right reasons. To do so for the wrong reason or to leave behind responsibilities in their own country would be a sin upon them as well.

As I recall, the sister asking the question has said that her children are older and her daughter has already threatened to leave because her mother chooses to wear hijab. How do you think that the children will reacte if their mother leaves them to move to another land? the sister needs to ask herself if she is prepared to possibly lose her children forever. The children are not small and would most likely refuse to go with the mother and may even close the door on the relationship with her forever. Even in Islam, a mother has her obligation to her children. That doesn't change just because the children are not Muslims. The daughter is only 16. She is still a minor and at the most crucial and most easily influencible age to corrupted by the world. She needs her mother more now than ever and abandonment at this point would likely fill her with pain and anger and lead her to sin. How will our sister answer to Allah in the end for having caste her daughter aside and in to sin rather than gently guiding her by example and perhaps one day welcoming her into a life of Islam? You spoke of teaching the children in your posts and raising them as Muslims. A sister can not do that by leaving them behind and she can not force them to leave their country at their ages.

This is just one of the many things that must be considered by a sister on migrating. Yes, there are many countries that are safe. BUT....remeber, a sister MUST have a wali if she is not married. If she moves alone to a foreign land, who is her wali? Most new Muslims do not have Muslim male relatives. How will she support herself in a mostly male world? So unless a sister has made these arrangements in advance, such as by contacting local masjids where she is moving and arranged for an official wali to be appointed , she is at the mercy of any man that would try to use her. And like it or not, that is the most common problem I have seen for new sisters.

Medical care is excellant in many countries, true. But such as in my case, I am fighting to survive and my prognosis so far is maybe 5 more years, IF , the treatment was successful. I am the last of my suport group with my illness to be surviving. The other 5 have died in the last 3 months. For me to try to move and begin all over with new doctors who are unaware of my case and how my treatment has been so far, that would be a certain death sentence for me. I don't have the time to wait for a new treatment protocol.To move at this stage would be suicide and we all know what Allah has said about suicide.

I have no issues about moving for Allah. I would love to do so myself. My husband is from an Islamic country and when we married we discussed moving there in time. If my health is stabilized, then insha'allah, I will someday go there with him. But I would never travel without knowing where I am going, who I am staying with, or how I will financially survive.

I am just urging caution for any sister who is unmarried to consult scholars for themselves, not website by live experts, and to carefully weigh what they will lose and what sins a move would place upon them.

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu aLaykum, i second what Nightwind has said.

Please take her advice, she has written something very wise and sensible, Alhamdulilah... and sisters remember to think things through, and be careful.

Also, sisters, please make sure you get any rulings direct from a Scholar, and not rely totally on what other brothers or sisters may tell you, even if you think they are your friends. This is because they may give you the wrong advice.

This is especially in the cases to do with family and relationships.

wasalam

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

With regards to the brother ibnAbdullah87. Hijrah, is not black and white issue of halal and haram, the scholars have made various rulings depending on the situation of the people.

Brother Mabsoot you are right and I never said anything about halal or haram at first I just posted articales about hijra and in what times that it could be wajib and I never said the sister or anyone else must make hijra I did not give any ruling. But when I felt brother mrmuslim was total bashing the idea then I felt the need to show the good of hijra and the muslim lands but I never said you have to to anyone. But if you think that you maybe leaving behind anyone obligation then tell it to one of the known scholars of the sunna and see what they advice you to do. And hijra is one of the things that wipes away your past sins but you need to inshallah make it correctly and inshallah not illegaly. Brother Mabsoot and sister Nightwind gave some good advice so take that into consideration.

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

salaam alikom

Who said you can not critize the Muslim rulers, the prophet peace be up on him said

أفضل الجهاد كلمة حق عند سلطان جائر​

The best kind of jihad is the word of right at the tyrannical ruler (the oppressive government) I am not saying fight them or start causing trouble but nothing wrong in saying whats bad in our Islamic countries.
The probelm is we as Muslim try to hide our mistakes and things happenes in Islamic countries, Islamic countries are not perfect just because they are Muslim.
Ofcourse we need to make duaa for Muslim Ummah to unite and may Allah guide us to this path and this include our rulers they are Muslim and Human. no one is perfect in this world But I disagree with you that you dont have to critize the Muslim ruler he is not a prophet that you can not critize him. If they do wrong things you need to advise them and if they dont listen you let the people know about what wrong they doing.. and Nothing wrong with that.


Brother mrmuslim do not use that hadeeth out of context the Prophet :saw2: عند which means to be with him and when you advice or critizes you need to be in from of the ruler not behind his back where he can not hear what you are saying, you need to be at the place where he runs the affairs, and we know critizing the ruler in public never brought about any benefit and the first of this umma to do so were the khawarij and it lead to the death of Uthman bin Affan (radiallahu anu), so you should read into the history of the Khawarij and see how distructive it is to critizes the muslim rulers. If the Prophet wanted people to critizes the ruler publicly he would have said An (about) I hope you know the word I am trying to you since I do not have an arabic keyboard and I am pretty sure you are much better then me in the arabic language. So I hope know that we have a better understanding of the word عند we can better understand the meaning of the hadeeth. And their are many hadeeths about the rulers and how you should act towards them.

The following hadeeth can be found in the book of 40 Hadeeth Regarding The Madhhab of The Salaf.

How The Subjects Are To advise The Muslim Ruler ​

On the authorit of Shuraih Bin Ubayd (radiyllahu anu) who said: Iyaad bin Ghanam said to Hisaam bin Hakeem: Did you not hear the statement of Allaah's Messenger

"Whover Wishes to advise the Ruler (sultaan), let him not do so openly. Rather he should take him by his hand and take him into seclusion [and advise him]. So indeed if he accepts that from him, then it is for him [in benefit] - and if [he does] not accept, then he has done that which was upon him [ by way of giving sincere advice]."

Narrated by Ahmad and Ibn Abee Aasim

[B]

The Obligation of Hearing And Obeying The Muslim Rulers Even If They Are TyrannicalAnd Oppressive​

[/B]

​

On the authority of Ubaadah bin As-Saamit, may Allah be pleased with him, who said:
The Prophet called us and we gave him the pledge of allegiance (the bay'ah). So amongst that which he said and made binding upon us was: that we pledged to hear and obey in times of invigoration and in times of weariness, and in times which we found hardship and in times of ease, even if someone wlse is given perference over us. And that we do revolt against the leaders unless you see from them open unbelief [which ejects one from Islaam] for which you have [for such a judgement] a clear evidence from Allah.
Narrated by Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim

Also on the authority of Ubaadh, may Allah be please with him, that the Prophet said:
Hear and obey [the Leader or Ruler] in that which is difficult for you and in that which is easy for you, in times of invigoration and in times of dislike and weariness and when others are given preferential treatment over you - even if they take and consume your wealth and they beat your back. Except that you do not obey them if it involves disobedience to Allaah.
Narrated by Ibn Hibbaan

Ibnul-Qayyim (died 752H) said: The Prophet , legislated for this Ummah the obligation of rejectiong the evil so that by its rejection, the goodness that Allaah and His Messenger love is obtained. ANd when rejection the evil leads to what is more evil and more hated by Allaah and His Messeneger then it is not allowed to reject it - even if Allaah hates it and detests those who perform it. And this is like rejection (inkaar) of the kings, and the ones in authority by coming out against them [ with arms etc, to fight them], for verily, that is the basis and foundation of every evil and every tribulation till the end of time. And the Companions asked permission for Allaah's Messneger , to kill the leaders who delay the prayer from its proper time, saying, "Shall we not kill them. So he said: No, so long as they establish the prayer. And he also said: Whoever sees something from his Ruler (Ameer) that he dislikes then let him be patient and let him not raise his hand from the Ruler's obedience. And whoever reflects upon the greatest and smallest trials that have befallen Islaam, then he will see that they are due to the negligence and wastage of this principle and the lack of patience upon [witnessing] evil. So one seeks to bring about its end and as a resulte of this, a greater evil is brought about. And the Messenger saw the greates of evil in Makkah and he was not able to change them. In fact even when Allaah opened up Makkah for the muslims and when it became a Land of Islaam (Daarul-Islaam) he was resolved to changin the Ka'bah and returnign it to the foundations that Ibraaheem, peace be upon him, had built it upon, but he even though he had the capacity to do that, he was perented from it by the fear that something greater would occur due to the lack of tolerance of the Quraish, since they were ne to Islaam and had recently left unbelief.

I am not saying that you will go out killing the muslim rulers.

The Forbiddance Of Abusing The Muslim Rulers​

On the Authority of Ziyaad bin Kusayb al-Adawee, who said: I was with Abu Bakrah (radiyllahu anu) sitting under the pulpit of [the Ruler] Ibn Aamir as he was delivering the sermon and he was wearing a fine garment. So Abu Bilaal said: "Look at our ruler wearing the garments of the sinners!" So Abu Bakrah (Radiyllahu anu) said: Be silent!! I heard Allaah's Messenger say:

"Whoever sends scorn upon the one whom Allaah has given rulership to up the earth, Allaah will scorn him."

Narrated by Ahmad and At-Tirmidhee, whos said: this Hadeeth is Hasan-ghareeb. And Al-Albaanee said it is Hasan.

Supplication For The Rulers Of The Muslims​

On the authority of Tameem Ad-Daaree (radiyllahu anu) that the Prophet said:

"The Religion is sincere advice." we said: "TO whom?" He said: "TO Allah, to His Book, to His Messenger, to the Rulers of the Muslims and to their general people."

Narrated by Muslim

I say: "Giving sincere advice is to wish for goodness for the one being advised. And from that which is necessary in advice to the ruler is supplication for him, for his rectificaton and rectification of his subjects."

Imaam Al-Bukhaaree cited and narrated the consensus (ijmaa) of the salaf in agreeing that it is legislated to make du'aa for the Rulers.

Imaam Al-Barbahaaree (died 329H) said: "When you see a man making supplication against the Ruler (sultaan) then know that he is a person of desire. And when you hear a man making a supplication for the Ruler, for his rectification, then know he is a person of the Sunnah,

I ask the sister who started this Forum to forgive me for going off topic but I felt there was a need to do so, and I did not put this replay for only the benefit of mrmuslim but for the benefit of all of us including myself.


I hope the rest of the replies will be back on topic. This was just a side benefit

 

[Nightwind]

Thank you brothers ibnAbdullah87 and Mabsoot.Caution is always the best advice and asking a true scholar rather than relying on possibly bad advice from someone who had pure intentions is the best. No matter how much we may feel that we know, we are not experts in the deen and it would be sad if not only did someone destroy their life but did so on our advice and bring sin upon us as well for leading them wrongly.

Migrating must be done very carefully, if not, the one leaving will find their life in ruins and may end up resenting it and then blaming Islam for all their troubles. If you are liontamer,going to enter a cage of lions, you need to be prepared to be eaten and strong enough to face all the dangers you will meet. If you aren't,the lions for sure are going to win. If you examine all the obligations on you, all the necessities to survive such a move, all your finances and have a suitible wali(for a woman) and you still feel that this is the right thing for you, then by all means go and May Allah Bless you for your sacrifice. But if you feel that you can not do it, then stay in your country knowing that despite all the tempations and sin in your land, that Allah allowed you to see past it and still see the beauty of Islam. If you keep your trust in Him then nothing will ever take you away from that.

 

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom

first of all t Sister nightwind may Allah cure you and help you with your hardship, remember your sins are been forgiven while you are in your hardship,
‘As’alu Allâha rabb al-‘arsh il-‘azîm an yashfiyaka
(I ask Allaah, Lord of the mighty Throne, to heal you), may Allaah heal you of the sickness.

#2 I am not debating with any one here about moving or migration to islamic country, I am with making duaa and advise the rulers but that was in the past now days try and go and advise one of the rulers.
I wont comments no more about this topic but take a look by your self its in a Islamic country

this just one Example :
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/74C68E51-8C24-4BF7-AEC7-1E0BF4BDA061.htm
banning the Hijab and cover in Tunisia in schools and university

last but not least as brothers and sisters said its better to ask an scholar and before all this do you Istikhara and ask Allah s.w.t for the best decission

wa salaam alikom

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

This discussion about the rulers needs it's un forum since this forum is not about the muslims rules. And for the record the rulers of the past the tyrannical once were more harsher in their punishments just look at the what happend with Imam Ahmed like brother Mabsoot pointed out or what happened to Imam Malik, or when Ibn Taymiyyah but you never heard that they critized the ruler or went against him even though they were right and the rulers were not follow the sharia 100%. Just because times change does not mean that we can know leave the sunnah and if we can not advice the rulers then we do not oppose the sunnah and speak out against them it is not an excuse make dua like you said you said you like the idea of making dua and stay patient. Allah will not change are situation if we oppose the sunnah of His Messenger. Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah is for all times and will never get out dated until the hour is established.

 

[Mabsoot]

Assalamu Alaykum,

Well Tunisia is not exactly an "Islamic" Country nor does it aspire to be one. Likewise many brothers have problems in neighbouring countries

But, Muslims can easily live in many Islamic countries without feeling threatened by anyone.

You will find good and bad people everywhere. Its common sense to take caution and not expect everyone to be honest and Islamic. i.e. having love for each otherm and being trustworthy and caring as Muslims should.

However, i got to say the people in Every Muslim country, including Tunisia and others will definitely be the most welcoming, warm hearted and kind people you will get to meet.

Well i have been lucky and blessed by Allah to have lived in and visited a lot of countries, Muslim and non Muslim. Each one is unique and different. The people are always different in many ways. From culture, hospitality to religious observance

I got to say that the Muslim countries always stood out from the rest. The People were always loving and friendly. Sure, there will be some who have bad character, but thats to be expected anywhere. On the whole, people were super. I definitely do not get to see people like that here in England. I live in a non-Muslim area in England. People here are not as friendly, too afraid to make conversation, the culture here is so different. There is no such thing as hospitality and friendliness to strangers or even neighbours in the UK. Everyone keeps themselves to themselves.

Even the local Christians in a village i lived in, in Lebanon were really hospitable, kind and friendly. Ok, Lebanon doesnt have an Islamic government, but the people are Islamic and many Sunni Areas there.

Maybe i can share some pics and videos i made of the Mosque where the famous scholar, Ibn Hajar al Askalani used to teach and also perhaps video about Islam in Lebanon which i made.

What we see here in the news, is so different to the reality there. People do get along and work together, its not a problem.

The UK and USA in particular are not "Safe" places for Muslims anymore. Our rights are slowly being taken away. Everyday politicians and people say bad and stupid stuff against Muslims.

Wasalam

This discussion about the rulers needs it's un forum since this forum is not about the muslims rules. And for the record the rulers of the past the tyrannical once were more harsher in their punishments just look at the what happend with Imam Ahmed like brother Mabsoot pointed out or what happened to Imam Malik, or when Ibn Taymiyyah but you never heard that they critized the ruler or went against him even though they were right and the rulers were not follow the sharia 100%. Just because times change does not mean that we can know leave the sunnah and if we can not advice the rulers then we do not oppose the sunnah and speak out against them it is not an excuse make dua like you said you said you like the idea of making dua and stay patient. Allah will not change are situation if we oppose the sunnah of His Messenger. Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah is for all times and will never get out dated until the hour is established.

Assalamu Alaykum,

yes these issues are to do with something called "Manhaj", basically how we go about doing things as Muslims. i.e. should we try overthrow Muslim rulers ? Do we call a Muslim a non-Muslim for a small sin? Do we deal out our own vigilante justice etc.

Please Read the Following Book by Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal,

foundations_of_the_sunnah.pdf It has detailed story of the life and trials of Imam Ahmad, how he was imprisoned in Iraq for his beliefs and how he stayed firm in his beliefs. Also, it talks about the Muslim Rulers please see Chapter 5 Pg 120.

wasalam.

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

After reading foundations of the sunnah by the Imam and defener of the sunnah Imam Ahmed then read from page 30 on this pdf
By Imam of Hadeeth Mohammaed Ibn Ismael Al-Bukhari (May Allah have mercy on him)

Read the section called Dealing With The Rulers starts on pg 29

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/ghazali1/CreedBukhari.pdf

But read the trial of Imam Ahmed first it is inspiring and shows true patients upon the truth which has not been seen since then.

 

[Nightwind]

Assalam alaikum

Thank you for your kind thoughts MrMuslim. Insha'allah I hope to spend a long life and see my beautiful children grow and one day marry. But if Allah chooses to take me home to Him, I am at peace fully with whatever may be. I know that he is filled with Mercy and has given me many more years than I would have had without His help. I guess that as a poet and writer I have had to learn to sum up my emotions and look inside myself. You might be suprised what you find if you look deep enough. We have much more strength than we ever realize there in our souls.

 

[Mrmuslim]

salaam alikom again

I didn’t say anything about people of the Islamic countries... we talking about ruler you can criticize them there is nowhere in shariah where it says don’t, we don’t have to create a fitnah between people but that doesn’t mean you can not criticize a ruler.

As the people of Islamic countries and I have been to some, as mabsoot said they are most welcoming and generous people you will find, they will open their house and hearts for you, specially when they know that a NEW brother or sister came to Islam, they get more generous .

The link I posted it was about government not about people and we are not talking about people we are talking about rulers.

Yes the situation for muslim in west are bad, but Allah s.w.t can change this by day and night and why ( the Ummah) is below of all nations because our sins and not following the shariah.

Allah said (( ان الله لا يغير ما بقوم حتى يغيروا ما بانفسهم ))
surely Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition; and when Allah intends evil to a people, there is no averting it, and besides Him they have no protector. 013.011

We can not blam everything on Non Muslim and say oh they doing this and that why dont we look @ what we as Muslim doing , what our ruler doing to us. and whats going on in the Islamic countries, Shariah dosnt say if the ruler is killing and oppressing people make Duaa for him, if you want to yes go head but its not a wajib,

if i do anything wrong people can advise me or criticize nothing wrong with it.
the propeht peace be up on him never said in any hadith that you can not criticize a ruler, we need to obey them as long as they follow the shariah but we dont have to obey them anything against shariah. as you dont have to obey your parents if they try to misguide you or to disobey Allah s.w.t

situation in the west may be bad, its all because of ignorance of the people of the true message of Islam, and when they get to know it they open thier heart for it.

As for the brother who was asking about the families who are returning back to the west after they moved back to thier own islamic country I dont know whats in thier hearts but I know they are Muslims and follow the religion of Allah and pray in the mosque and keep up with good work.

As for the part where a brother said, I like the idea of making Dua. I didnt say IDEA i said yes we should make dua for the ruler but that dosnt mean we can not criticize them.

at the end make you smile
وجد الحجاج على منبره مكتوباً : " قل تمتع بكفرك إنك من أصحاب النار " سورة الزمر آية 8

فكتب تحته : " قل موتوا بغيظكم إن الله عليم بذات الصدور " سورة ال عمران آية 119

the Hajaj (ruler of Iraq) found on his minber a verse of Quran written
Enjoy yourself in your ungratefulness a little, surely you are of the inmates of the fire. 039.008

so he wrote another verse under the one was written by people.
Die in your rage; surely Allah knows what is in the breasts.003.119


wa salaam alikom



wa salaam alikom

 

[Imad]

Assalmo alaikoem warahmatullahi wbaraktuh,

Jazakumullaho gairan. May Allah heal you all, amien. Sister Nightwind do your best reading the Quraan. bidni Llah it will have a great influence on the sickness. The Quraan is schifauoen lima fi sodoer ( It a healing for what is in the breasts). Some scholars have pointed out that de Quraan has also Healing effects for the physical body.

May Allah return me, you and all muslim sisters and brothers in a state of Ihsaan to Him, amien.

Fi amanillah.

Wassalmoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh,

Imad

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

I do not think we should continue on talking about the issue with the rulers in this forum, we are not getting anywhere it seems. I said my part and brought proofs from the messenger, sahaba and the Imams of the past that it is not permissable to speak out against the rulers as did brother Mabsoot. I really hope you take the advice it will be to your own benefit and a benefit to the rest of the muslims to take to the principle of not speaking out against them. If I miss quoted anything or said something that is wrong then may Allah forgive me. This prinicple does not change just because times have changed. Inshallah if anyone wants further clearifactions start a seperate forum that is specific to the issue of the rulers and if you can contact a known scholar of the sunnah to explain to you. I don't think the sister that started this forum seeking advice would like it for us to deviate from her question. I am the one who probably start by bringing up issues that lead to the change so forgive. :salam2:

 

[ibnAbdullah87]

Let me correct myself this whole time I have been saying forum but what I meant to say was thread.