I do not think we should continue on talking QUOTE]
salaam alikom
Jazaaki Allah Khayran sister nightwind,
and brother IbnAbdullah, and Mabsoot. but I have to say this what you mentioned is not an evidence in any way that we cant not criticize the ruler there is no prove in shariah about this, or its against the shariah, a ruler is a wali of Muslims but that dosnt mean he is above the law in any way.
ضرب الرسول صلى الله عيه و سلم أروع الأمثلة للخلق العظيم و من أهمها العدل في التعامل. و قد صار على نهجه الصحابة و على رأسهم عمر بن الخطاب و الذي سماه الرسول صلى الله عليه و سلم بالفاروق لأنه كان يفرق بين الحق و الباطل و كان العدل من أهم سماته منذ أن دخل في الإسلام. و لقد خطب عمر في الناس عندما تولى الخلافة قائلا: (إن رأيتم في إعوجاجا فقوموني. فيندب له رجل من عامة المسلمين يقول: لو وجدنا فيك اعوجاجا لقومناك بحد سيوفنا. فما يزيد عمر على أن يقول: الحمد لله الذي جعل في رعية عمر من يقومه بحد سيفه.)7 و هذا يدل على قمة المساواة و العدل. فلقد أعطى عمر بن الخطاب الرعية الحق في أن يقوموه بالسيف إن لم يستقم بعكس ما هو قائم حيث أن معظم الحكام لا يسمحون إلا بتبجيلهم و تعظيمهم واضعين نفسهم في مرتبة أعلى من بقية البشر. كما أن عمر بن الخطاب في وقت خلافته خطب في الناس في وجود الولاة ليعرفوا حقوقهم و واجباتهم قائلا: (إني لم أستعمل عليكم عمالي ليضربوا أبشاركم، و يشتموا أعراضكم، و يأخذوا أموالكم و لكن استعملتهم ليعلموكم كتاب ربكم و سنة نبيكم عليه الصلاة و السلام، فمن ظلمه عامله بمظلمة فلا إذن له على يرفعها إلى حتى أقص منه. فقال عمرو بن العاص: ياأمير المؤمنين أرأيت إن أدب أمير رجلا من رعيته أتقصه منه؟ فقال عمر: و مالي لا أقصه منه و قد رأيت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم يقص من نفسه؟
we have the greates example in our prophet peace be up on him and then in his companion and one of the greates companion is omar bin khattab, who said in his speech Radi Allah Anahu when became Ameer to his people; he said
(If you saw any kind of distorting in me stright me up so a man from among general Muslims said: If we find that you distorting we will stright you up with our swords upon this Omar bin Khtab said : Thank God for making among my people who would stright me with his sword).
And this indicates the summit of equality and justice. But most of leaders now days would not allow only to good things about them , putting themselves on a higher level than the rest of humanity.
where are our rulers when
- A mosque of 400 years old was destroyed in India, At least they could force India to rebuild the mosque I think they have enough power to force India..!
- when Danish news paper printed pic of the prophet peace be up on him
- when Muslim women were getting raped and killed in Bosnia
ذكــــر القلقشـندي صــاحب كـتـاب ( مـآثـر الإنـافـة ) في سبب فتح عمورية على يد المعتصم عـام 223هـ : ( يحكـى أن صاحب عمورية من ملوك الروم كانت عنده شريفة من ولـد فاطـمة رضي الله عنها ، مأسـورة في خلافة المعتصـم بن الرشـيد ، فعذبها ، فصاحت الشـريفة : وامعتصماه ، فقال لها الملك : لا يأتي لخلاصك إلا على أبلق – خيـول فيها سواد وبياض – فبلغ ذلك المعتصم فنادى في عسكره بركوب الخيل البلق ، وخـرج وفي مقدمة عسكره أربعة آلاف أبلق ، وأتى عمورية وفتحها ، وخلص الشريفة ، وقال : اشهدي لي عند جدك أني أتيت لخلاصك ، وفي مقدمة عسكري أربعة آلاف أبلق ) .
where these rulers you talking and saying not to criticize them from El moatsim bIllah المعتصم when typical woman captive in the hands of the Roman screamed "وامعتصماه" OhMotsim ( she was shouting his name to help her from romans) he heard this from one of his soldiers while he was seated on the bed and he rised from his bed and ordered the army to get ready and he went to Amuriyah and opned the city and saved the woman
Even Hajaj most brutal rulers of Muslims in Iraq who was known at his time that he killed and oppressed Muslims he has sense to save Muslims when they are needed, when Muslim women in a ship were captured by Meade el-Deeble "(one of the oldest Indian peoples) and took the Muslim women in thier Battleship , one of the owmen screamed Oh Hajaj Oh Hajaj and it reached to him that, he replied Yalbekee ( Meaning I am coming or answering her back) and he send an army to save these women.
نسوة مسلمات في سفينة، عرض لهن قوم من "ميد الديبل " (من أقدم الشعوب الهندية) في بوارج فأخذوا السفينة بما فيها، فنادت امرأة منهن، وكانت من بني يربوع: يا حجاج! وبلغ الحجاج ذلك، فقال: "يالبيك" فأرسل إلى "داهر" ليسأله تخلية النسوة، فقال: إنما أخذهن لصوص لا أقدر عليهم، فأغزا الحجاج "عبيد الله بن نبهان"، "الديبل" (مدينة شهيرة على ساحل الهند)، فقتل، ثم أمر "بديل بن طهفة"، فلما قتل ولى الحجاج "محمد بن القاسم" في أيام "الوليد بن عبدالملك"، فغزا السند
What you said and Brother Mabsoot said is just your opnion, I agree with you we should make dua for them and we should unite as Muslim etc...BUT no where in Shariah says you can not criticize a ruler.
I know what our Imams went through like Imam Ahmed bin hanbal may Allah have mercy on him, but that dosnt mean you can not criticize.
I will ask the Imam about this issue inshallah but I would say this
"الخلاف في الراي لا يفسد للود قضية
A difference of opinion does not spoil amity , we are brothers in islam and may Allah guide us to his straight path.
wa salaam alikom
Is living in a non-muslim country haraam??
- Thread starter seekingtruth2
- Start date
Karima
Junior Member
Asalamualikum,
I have to ask, "Is it soup, yet?"
This long thread of discussions has been a feeling of a lot of thought and energy to guide us to the right path...in any form of decisions in our lifetime on earth.
I would like to say that this post summed it up well: by Nightwind.....
Sallam
I have to ask, "Is it soup, yet?"
This long thread of discussions has been a feeling of a lot of thought and energy to guide us to the right path...in any form of decisions in our lifetime on earth.
I would like to say that this post summed it up well: by Nightwind.....
Sallam
seekingtruth2
Junior Member
as salaamu alaykm
First i want to say jazak allah khair to all who replied and gave so much thought to my questions. I appreciate all of you my brothers and sisters in Islam.
Please let me respond to those who want to act like by asking a question of this importance here in this forum is just stupid. It is not. People's replies in this forum have ALWAYS been well thought out and supported by either the quran or sunnah. So yes, to ask a question here can actually be a wise decision and often leads to not having to ask the various scholars and waste their valuable time just because you cannot find information right away in either the quran or sunnah because your not looking in the right place. The information I was looking for was received when the brother quoted from the quran.
And no sister I am not so ignorant as to just rush off blindly into the middle east without much thought and planning and would NEVER do so at the expense of my children, however I thank you for your concern. All I said was that if this is supported in the quran then I need to give this some thought and possible planning. As we all know depending on what your planning plans can take years to fulfill.
Please consider your words and possibly ask questions before you so quickly put down other people as well as a forum as good as this one.And I believe most people in matters of importance consult more than one source for their information their mosque included before making any conclusions. And what the brother said about raising children in the west does bear weight with me as I am hoping for a good marriage with a muslim man and more children so thank you brother for those words of advise. I have seen first hand what the influence of the west can do to an impressionable child, you make a wonderful point here.
Oh, one more point to you, just because someone says something would be "cool" like seeing for themselves a place where the majority of the populace actually practices their religion also does not make them uneducated, I hold to my wording on this one.....It would be so cool to see!!!!
I sincerely apologize for sounding harsh in any way I did, however, feel the need to express myself and defend myself.
Once again thank you to everyone who replied, your words are always taken into consideration.
Also sister I am so sorry to hear of your illness and I will keep you in my prayers daily.
salaam
First i want to say jazak allah khair to all who replied and gave so much thought to my questions. I appreciate all of you my brothers and sisters in Islam.
Please let me respond to those who want to act like by asking a question of this importance here in this forum is just stupid. It is not. People's replies in this forum have ALWAYS been well thought out and supported by either the quran or sunnah. So yes, to ask a question here can actually be a wise decision and often leads to not having to ask the various scholars and waste their valuable time just because you cannot find information right away in either the quran or sunnah because your not looking in the right place. The information I was looking for was received when the brother quoted from the quran.
And no sister I am not so ignorant as to just rush off blindly into the middle east without much thought and planning and would NEVER do so at the expense of my children, however I thank you for your concern. All I said was that if this is supported in the quran then I need to give this some thought and possible planning. As we all know depending on what your planning plans can take years to fulfill.
Please consider your words and possibly ask questions before you so quickly put down other people as well as a forum as good as this one.And I believe most people in matters of importance consult more than one source for their information their mosque included before making any conclusions. And what the brother said about raising children in the west does bear weight with me as I am hoping for a good marriage with a muslim man and more children so thank you brother for those words of advise. I have seen first hand what the influence of the west can do to an impressionable child, you make a wonderful point here.
Oh, one more point to you, just because someone says something would be "cool" like seeing for themselves a place where the majority of the populace actually practices their religion also does not make them uneducated, I hold to my wording on this one.....It would be so cool to see!!!!
I sincerely apologize for sounding harsh in any way I did, however, feel the need to express myself and defend myself.
Once again thank you to everyone who replied, your words are always taken into consideration.
Also sister I am so sorry to hear of your illness and I will keep you in my prayers daily.
salaam
q8penpals
Junior Member
I have visited many countries with majority Muslim populations, many mosques, and rule with "shariah" law (at least mostly). In my opionion, NONE of them are "true" Muslim countries. In most of the Arab Gulf states, ethnic discrimination is rife and blatant in everything from hiring practices to how police enforce laws - even when they are Muslims, but from different (read - East Asian) countries.
Also, many of the middle east countries - even when women wear headscarves, they are defnitely not dressed in 'hijab" - I dressed more modestly in the US BEFORE becoming a Muslim that many "born Muslim" women in these areas.
Many of the far east Muslim countries put way too much of their culture into their practice of Islam ("honor" killings as a huge example). The practice of female circumsision (genital mutilation) is rife in some African nations that have large Muslim populations (many Muslims do this to their daughters because it was done to them, to their mothers, etc, and it is NOT part of Islam).
Think Taleban - Afghanistan was supposed to be an Islamic/Shariah run country and look how it was perverted?
Just in the newspaper today, Turkey is struggling with "honor" killings also.
Egypt seems pretty close, but look at the Egyptian actresses, the belly dancers in all the night-clubs, and the alcohol that flows freely down the throats of many Muslims?
In my experience, and humble opinion, there are no "true" Islamic countries today.
Lana
Also, many of the middle east countries - even when women wear headscarves, they are defnitely not dressed in 'hijab" - I dressed more modestly in the US BEFORE becoming a Muslim that many "born Muslim" women in these areas.
Many of the far east Muslim countries put way too much of their culture into their practice of Islam ("honor" killings as a huge example). The practice of female circumsision (genital mutilation) is rife in some African nations that have large Muslim populations (many Muslims do this to their daughters because it was done to them, to their mothers, etc, and it is NOT part of Islam).
Think Taleban - Afghanistan was supposed to be an Islamic/Shariah run country and look how it was perverted?
Just in the newspaper today, Turkey is struggling with "honor" killings also.
Egypt seems pretty close, but look at the Egyptian actresses, the belly dancers in all the night-clubs, and the alcohol that flows freely down the throats of many Muslims?
In my experience, and humble opinion, there are no "true" Islamic countries today.
Lana
:salam2:
I couldnt agree more with you.
If anything I have very disappointing views on Saudi law after having lived their for 5 yrs.
There is no form of Sharia Law ANYWHERE out there today. No country or muslim has the right to take selective aspects of Sharia law & distort the rest to their own liking. Insha'Allah they will be answerable to Allah (SHW) for this.
WaAliekum Assalam
P.S: Nice post Mr.Muslim.
HEre's my 2c worth
If all the Muslims in Non Muslim countries moved to the Muslim countries, how are we going to invite people to revert to Islam. Didn't the Prohet SAW convert people by them watching the way he lived his life. Shouldn't we do the same?
ON the subject of Islamic countries, this is something that happened to a relative of my fathers. They went as part of a Jammat group to Visist with some very learned Imam in Egypt. When they got off the plane they were interogated for 2 days based mainly on their appearance and dress (these were all men, no women in the groupt at all). They all had beards, wore clothing that very much resembles the way the saudi men dress, except they wore the hats, not the scarf on their heads. And all this in an Islamic country.
If all the Muslims in Non Muslim countries moved to the Muslim countries, how are we going to invite people to revert to Islam. Didn't the Prohet SAW convert people by them watching the way he lived his life. Shouldn't we do the same?
ON the subject of Islamic countries, this is something that happened to a relative of my fathers. They went as part of a Jammat group to Visist with some very learned Imam in Egypt. When they got off the plane they were interogated for 2 days based mainly on their appearance and dress (these were all men, no women in the groupt at all). They all had beards, wore clothing that very much resembles the way the saudi men dress, except they wore the hats, not the scarf on their heads. And all this in an Islamic country.
