Is poker haraam if played without money?
- Thread starter Umair.
- Start date
Ershad
Junior Member
brother,I remember I had posted the video. That is true, brother. If you read my post above, I never made any conclusions that it is haram or halal. I am not a scholar so I can't really make decisions. I am just saying it is doubtful and let the decision be in such a way that it protects our deen.
It doesn't seem huge issue brother atleast not for now. Not for the brother Umair since he is not addicted to it. But, if someone vulnerable takes it for granted in Islam, he might get addicted to it. I myself know many friends of mine (non-muslims) who got addicted to online games and spoiled their lives. They were brilliant and skillful.
Just a suggestion. Not fatwa or something.
Jazakallahu Khair!
Wannabemuslim
Junior Member
Assalam alykum, i agree. i recently stoped playing all my video games, because of how much time i was beggening to waste this ramadann. , but i love chess and it will be hard for me to give that up, but i will, but not now.
Also i do think that Allah will reward us for letting go of things in the Dunya, but does it really make us better muslims? I know im going to get a lecture, but i think its best to focus on getting rid of the bigger more well known sins that are mentioned in the Quran than to worry about playing a game with your family like chess. I think that people feel discouraged from Islam when they see muslims listing Haram things and restrictions. So mabey if someone feels like they have taken out all of there major problems and sins, they can improve them selves more and stop playing chess and the like and feel peace knowing there doing something for Allah (s.w.t).
Also keep in mind theres no such thing as a perfect muslim
strive-may-i
Junior Member
:salam2:
Invaluable reminder!
May Allah Bestow you more wisdom. May Almighty Bless you...
islamirama
www.netmuslims.com
What people fail to understand stand is EVERYTHING in the world is HALAL for Muslims unless otherwise said so. So when our bad habits end upon a small list of haram things, we start whining. Are there not enough halal things in the world for us to engage in?
Two things we have to keep in mind, not just on this topic for these games but in general for all things.
first is that Islam allows recreation activities to relax the body but there is a thing call too much relaxing or wasting time. We will be asked on J_Day how we spent out time as well as how we spent our youth. We were busy playing some game for 10hrs a day?
Second, i keep hearing that well i'm not betting money so i don't see why it's haram. Same goes for p*o*r*n, well i'm not doing anything so why not? Or talking to opposite gender, well we are not doing anything. The thing is that not only does Islam forbid the haram (zina, gambling, etc) but also anything that may lead to it (playing game of chance, 2 being alone, etc). It's called taking precautions and it's Allah's way of protecting us from falling into haram.
Two things we have to keep in mind, not just on this topic for these games but in general for all things.
first is that Islam allows recreation activities to relax the body but there is a thing call too much relaxing or wasting time. We will be asked on J_Day how we spent out time as well as how we spent our youth. We were busy playing some game for 10hrs a day?
Second, i keep hearing that well i'm not betting money so i don't see why it's haram. Same goes for p*o*r*n, well i'm not doing anything so why not? Or talking to opposite gender, well we are not doing anything. The thing is that not only does Islam forbid the haram (zina, gambling, etc) but also anything that may lead to it (playing game of chance, 2 being alone, etc). It's called taking precautions and it's Allah's way of protecting us from falling into haram.
islamirama
www.netmuslims.com
So are you saying chess is ok then since it's not mentioned? I believe it's this nitpicking is what led the jews astray.
What some of the scholars have said about the prohibition of chess:
Ibn Qudaamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “Chess is like dice in that it is forbidden.” (al-Mughni, 14/155),
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The evil consequences of chess are greater than the evil consequences of dice. Everything that points to the prohibition of dice points to the prohibition of chess even more so… This is the view of Maalik and his companions, of Abu Haneefah and his companions, of Ahmad and his companions, and the view of the majority of the Taabi’een… It is not known that any of the Sahaabah permitted it or played it. Allaah protected them from that. Everything that is attributed to any of them and says that he played it – such as Abu Hurayrah – is a fabrication and lie against the Sahaabah and is rejected by anyone who knows how the Sahaabah really were and by anyone who has sufficient knowledge to examine the reports critically. How could the best generation and the best of mankind after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) permit playing something that prevents people from remembering Allaah and from praying, and is worse in this regard than alcohol when the player gets immersed in it, as we see in real life? How could the Lawgiver forbid dice but permit chess, which is many times worse?…” (al-Furoosiyah, 303, 305, 311).
Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “The evil consequences of chess are greater than the evil consequences of dice. Everything that points to the prohibition of dice points to the prohibition of chess even more so… This is the view of Maalik and his companions, of Abu Haneefah and his companions, of Ahmad and his companions, and the view of the majority of the Taabi’een… It is not known that any of the Sahaabah permitted it or played it. Allaah protected them from that. Everything that is attributed to any of them and says that he played it – such as Abu Hurayrah – is a fabrication and lie against the Sahaabah and is rejected by anyone who knows how the Sahaabah really were and by anyone who has sufficient knowledge to examine the reports critically. How could the best generation and the best of mankind after the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) permit playing something that prevents people from remembering Allaah and from praying, and is worse in this regard than alcohol when the player gets immersed in it, as we see in real life? How could the Lawgiver forbid dice but permit chess, which is many times worse?…” (al-Furoosiyah, 303, 305, 311).
Al-Dhahabi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “With regard to chess, most of the scholars say that it is haraam to play it, whether that is for money or not. If it is played for money then it is indisputably gambling. Even if it is not played for money it is still gambling and haraam, according to most of the scholars… al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) was asked about playing chess, is it forbidden or permissible? He (may Allaah have mercy on him) replied that if it makes a person miss praying on time or he plays for money, then it is haraam, otherwise it is makrooh according to al-Shaafa’i and haraam according to others…” (al-Kabaa’ir, 89-90).
With regard to the views of the Sahaabah:
‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) was asked about chess and he said, “It is worse than dice.”
“Dice” refers to what is used nowadays for playing backgammon, which is played on a special table. It was narrated in the ahaadeeth that it is haraam.
Abu Dawood (4938) narrated from Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever plays dice has disobeyed Allaah and His Messenger.” (Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 4129)
Muslim (2260) narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever plays dice is like one who has dipped his hand in the flesh and blood of a pig.” Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “This hadeeth is quoted as evidence by al-Shaafa’i and the majority of scholars to prove that playing dice is haraam. The phrase ‘dipped his hand in the flesh and blood of a pig’ refers to eating it, and this simile is used to show that this is haraam because it is haraam to eat that.”
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/14095
Wannabemuslim
Junior Member
Wa salam good points. I dont have many people to play chess with so i will quit. Jakaz Allah khair, may Allah (s.W.t) reward you for your good intentions But let me put out a hypathetical scenario.
Say that your a revert, or born muslim, you have very little imam, You try to the best of your knowlegde to follow the quran and sunnah. you grew up with chess in the home, mabey when ever you felt bad or was having a bad day you played the game. Mabey one day you get more interested in islam and want to get more faith, so you end up on this forum.
This person sees this thread and the hadiths people are telling him to stop now playing chess and that if he plays the game he is disobeying Allah (s.w.t). What do you think this persons initial reaction will be? Mabey he will be pious and out of love for Allah (S.W.T) stop playing the game. But if he was very ignorant on the fundamentals of islam, he might go a different way, he might feel deprived without chess and begin to question if islam is really going to give him any happiness. Expecially if everyone around him plays the game and he lives in a non muslim community
I think we need to be more patient with muslims that dont have much understanding of islam. I myself dont know enough about islam. If i was here 4 months ago when i joined i might get depressed after reading that i cant play chess. But i learned more about islam some from very patient good brothers on this site , so i can easily get rid of haram stuff like chess now with a push in the right directipon
Say that your a revert, or born muslim, you have very little imam, You try to the best of your knowlegde to follow the quran and sunnah. you grew up with chess in the home, mabey when ever you felt bad or was having a bad day you played the game. Mabey one day you get more interested in islam and want to get more faith, so you end up on this forum.
This person sees this thread and the hadiths people are telling him to stop now playing chess and that if he plays the game he is disobeying Allah (s.w.t). What do you think this persons initial reaction will be? Mabey he will be pious and out of love for Allah (S.W.T) stop playing the game. But if he was very ignorant on the fundamentals of islam, he might go a different way, he might feel deprived without chess and begin to question if islam is really going to give him any happiness. Expecially if everyone around him plays the game and he lives in a non muslim community
I think we need to be more patient with muslims that dont have much understanding of islam. I myself dont know enough about islam. If i was here 4 months ago when i joined i might get depressed after reading that i cant play chess. But i learned more about islam some from very patient good brothers on this site , so i can easily get rid of haram stuff like chess now with a push in the right directipon
Assalaam walaikum,
I am not saying anything. Esteemed scholars are the ones who made a distinction between chess and backgammon. There was an error in translation. Backgammon uses dice and chess does not. Thus, many believe backgammon to be a game of chance. Chess does not use chance.
I am not saying anything. Esteemed scholars are the ones who made a distinction between chess and backgammon. There was an error in translation. Backgammon uses dice and chess does not. Thus, many believe backgammon to be a game of chance. Chess does not use chance.
abdul-aziz
Junior Member
:salam2:
STOP; wait a minute. let's think this through.
You asked a question on a site that people refer to Quran and Sunnah. When the best answer they gave you; you right away rejected it and went even further to put it down badly.
The last thing I would want to do is put down the Ulema, as Allah, swt, described them at a very high level based on their daily actions of worship. I wouldn't even dare to put anything negative on someone who probably spends most of his night praying and through out the day thikr and prayer. On top of that they make duaa for all muslims.
To answer your initial question we first have to understand the 3 types of values of things.
Some action is either a Good Deed, a Bad Deed, and then there is something that falls in the middle of those called Mubaah. It doesn't attribute to good or bad.
Most of the scholars feel when something is Mubaah, it should not be promoted or an action to spend a lot of time in. So they would advise in staying away from it.
Further I would not be able to tell you if these activities are relative to what is stated in the Quran as haraam. I would suggest you ask your local sheik.
so be patient and ask Allah for guidance on all matters.
wa Allah ya'lam
Assalaam walaikum,
Each person has to decide what they are going to do and not do. If we all did that which is perfect we would not be here.
If we are unsure we seek guidance. Hence, we go to the scholar.
When we gain all the evidence we need to make a decision we make it. We have to live with the consequences of our decisions. Nobody else can.
For some playing poker is a mental game to stimulate the mind for mathematical combinations and permutations. As is chess. It is used to discipline the mind to concentrate. It is the intention. For many people with reading disorders card games are a useful tool. They help with many pre-reading skills. So before we condemn the whole world..lets take a deep breathe and see a wider picture.
Each person has to decide what they are going to do and not do. If we all did that which is perfect we would not be here.
If we are unsure we seek guidance. Hence, we go to the scholar.
When we gain all the evidence we need to make a decision we make it. We have to live with the consequences of our decisions. Nobody else can.
For some playing poker is a mental game to stimulate the mind for mathematical combinations and permutations. As is chess. It is used to discipline the mind to concentrate. It is the intention. For many people with reading disorders card games are a useful tool. They help with many pre-reading skills. So before we condemn the whole world..lets take a deep breathe and see a wider picture.
It is absolutely clear that when the Qur'an and sunnah spoke about gambling they were speaking about using money to bet.
If we allow it to apply to when no money is involved then any recreational activity and pretty much all the rest of our life becomes haram unless you just live in a box.
This includes stuff where any sort of effort is used but the outcome isn't certain. You may say going to a job interview is haram because you may be wasting your time there. You can say going to the gym is haram, you can say going to sleep is haram because you may not wake up for namaz time, using deodrant is haram because you might smell bad anyway. You may say going for a walk in the park is haram because you might be wasting your time.
So I think people need to think for themselves on this, I have respect for scholars but they cannot be always right. If we were to rely on everyone of knowledge, we would have contradicting views as there are people of high position in the field of science and physics where they basically marvel at God's creation and claim there isn't a God.
Moral of the story: Not every smart person is always right.
If we allow it to apply to when no money is involved then any recreational activity and pretty much all the rest of our life becomes haram unless you just live in a box.
This includes stuff where any sort of effort is used but the outcome isn't certain. You may say going to a job interview is haram because you may be wasting your time there. You can say going to the gym is haram, you can say going to sleep is haram because you may not wake up for namaz time, using deodrant is haram because you might smell bad anyway. You may say going for a walk in the park is haram because you might be wasting your time.
So I think people need to think for themselves on this, I have respect for scholars but they cannot be always right. If we were to rely on everyone of knowledge, we would have contradicting views as there are people of high position in the field of science and physics where they basically marvel at God's creation and claim there isn't a God.
Moral of the story: Not every smart person is always right.
Tabassum07
Smile for Allah
:salam2:
I'm just wondering how people can play chess for 3 hours. I used to play it when I was little, and each game would last 20 minutes max.
I'm just wondering how people can play chess for 3 hours. I used to play it when I was little, and each game would last 20 minutes max.
islamirama
www.netmuslims.com
It isn't really far fetched. Someone will probably say that with a scholarly opinion and view to back it up sooner or later. I don't think there will be a halal thing left in a few years with all these fatwas!
islamirama
www.netmuslims.com
Bro, Like i said before. All things in life are halal unless otherwise stated so.
But even halal things can become haram as well depending on your intentions and actions. For example, if all you do online is watch *!*!*!*! then obviously the scholars will say the use of internet for you is haram and when you stop that and start using it for beneficial purposes than it won't be haram anymore. So somethings are set as haram/halal and others are conditional depending on the circumstances/situations.
Assalaam walaikum,
We have been given the outline of the behaviors and their consequences. We must take individual responsibility. We can not limit the actions of others. That is the choice they make.
Yes, chess can take many hours. Think of the championship games. It is a test of war strategy. It develops the mind to focus on the move and what effects that particular move will have on the battlefield. It sharpens the mind.
Why are people boxing themselves in. When you label something as haraam be very sure. Think it out. What else are you labeling that is innocent.
If you make a choice to do something or not to do something understand it is your decision. You are using your faculties. You are responsible. That is the issue. Are you willing to assume responsibility for your behavior given the evidence for the consequences of that behavior. For example: you pray..the consequences of prayer are beneficial to your being.
Let's not be arrogant in thought.
We have been given the outline of the behaviors and their consequences. We must take individual responsibility. We can not limit the actions of others. That is the choice they make.
Yes, chess can take many hours. Think of the championship games. It is a test of war strategy. It develops the mind to focus on the move and what effects that particular move will have on the battlefield. It sharpens the mind.
Why are people boxing themselves in. When you label something as haraam be very sure. Think it out. What else are you labeling that is innocent.
If you make a choice to do something or not to do something understand it is your decision. You are using your faculties. You are responsible. That is the issue. Are you willing to assume responsibility for your behavior given the evidence for the consequences of that behavior. For example: you pray..the consequences of prayer are beneficial to your being.
Let's not be arrogant in thought.