Islam VS Culture

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
:salam2:

it was my idea that it could be shirk...! but I think you didn´t understand me well...cuz I was not talking about intermarriage only but about the whole culture thing... I know that shirk is very evil and one has to be carefull with blaming others of this. that´s why I said (when your culture is more important to you than your deen, when you care about what people will think but not about what Allah will think about you) it could be shirk. I didn´t say it is shirk! I also believe that many of us don´t really know what shirk exactly means... but Allah knows best otherwise I agree with you... when we meet brothers and sisters who didn´t understand the truth right we should try our best to make them reaalize the truth by talking and sharring the knowledge given to us by Allah with them... if Allah wants they will be guided...

:wasalam:

I understood what you meant actually sister..and I spoke of intermarriage because that is essentially the topic of the thread so I had to relate my perspective back to it :)

The doors & actions leading to shirk are determined and clear so we actually *do know* what shirk means ukhti..the topic is quite lengthy so I will not be able to discuss it thoroughly here but I trust you can research it :)

I am sorry if it seemed as though I was putting you under the spotlight..because I wasn't :)..I just wanted to express that sometimes we get passionate about the justice and soundness of Islam and we may use some of its verdicts to apply over the matters we experience in life which might not fit their context..

Someone might out of *ignorance* put their culture first..but they might still be Allah-loving people and do not associate partners with Him and so on...so they would be alhamduliallah safe in this aspect..they just need to be *corrected* kindly and *educated* on prioritizing *culture*

I do agree with you that if we were to follow a "culture"...then it should be that within the bounds of Sharia which Allah (swt) decreed..though I do not like to use the word "culture" for Islam..because culture can have its faults..and Islam has none..but I used it for lack of a better word...

I enjoyed reading your story as well sister..alhamduliallah that Allah bestowed the mercy of knowledge and understanding upon you so you'd see the beauty of your deen..mashallah! :)

:wasalam:
 

mohamedan

New Member
salam warahmatullah,

v r already following a culture, a universal culture , the best art of living, a very simple and sophisticated religion applicable in every condition from the moment v open our eyes n close. i therefore find no more room to accomodate any man made alterartions based on hypothesis. v r already following best wat else remained???????? !!!!!

jazakAllah khair

shahrukh
 

misbah ul haya

Junior Member
Asalam u alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakakatuh
I have to say something about this sensitive issue:
``There are six things which are considered to be equal while marrying. These are: islam, family, independence(slaves as were in time of nabi s.a.w),occupation, honesty and money.
Religion of Imam Malik (r.a)says ; two things are important i.e; islam and health(not suffer from leprosy, mental disorders and others like these). According to imam malik(r.a) family, independence, occupation and money are untrustful.
Religion of imam sha’afi (r.a)says that family, religion, independence and occupation could be taken into consideration.
Hanafis say that islam,family, independence, occupation, honesty and money are considered.’’ (translated in English from an urdu book; ISLAMI FIQH by MUHAMMAD TUFAIL HASHMI)
After considering opinion of all our great leaders we make a judgement that considering family while marrying is not bida’a or unislamic but to make it an obligation is not right. Also there is a hadeeth whose original text I couldn’t find it was about marriage: ‘while marrying family, money, beauty and knowledge are considered. You prefer knowledge.’ Note it please nabi s.a.w said you prefer knowledge but did not forbade looking at other things like family.
But actually decision lies in situation because holy prophet s.a.w also said(this hadeeth is also not in original text but is understood as) if you find any Islamic person offering you for marriage do accept his proposal because if you didn’t do it fitna will spread.
People who tightly hold their customs are totally wrong because islam itself is a culture and way of life. one who follow any Pakistani ,Indian, Arabic or any other regional culture are not following islam.
I personally condemn this culture of marrying in same tribe, or nation telling you a real life scenario I know a girl with whom i have blood relation.she is married in an illiterate family though she has done masters just because there was nobody educated in her tribe. And know she is living a miserable life………..may Allah subhanahu wa ta’ala help her and make jannah easy for her in reward to her hard life.ameen
and about nation people who are muslims by birth but never lived in their country cannot manage to marry with their own countrymen,and also those who have reverted to islam, it may become difficult for them to live in muslim society if we will stick to our customs
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
:salam2:
Mashallah brothers and sister, for sure you have clear my misconception and thank you for that and have helped me increase my knowledge

Jazak Allah Khair

Coming to the issue: I think my brother Misbah ul Haya said it all, during marriage culture, family etc could be looked at but it should not be the main thing... 1st comes the deen, 2nd Health and rest are if you want.

But islam is a culture itself, we all a part of the bigger family, its the family of Islam, we are a ummah, all blk white yellow born grey red (lol) , whatever color someone is thats not the basis of marriage in islam.

We can truly see how we have deviated away from the path of the Sunnah and have added these things to Islam.
Its sad cuz i know in Pakistan the muslims have acrquired this from Hindus, who have so many cast and they only marry within the cast and its considered really bad to degrade yourself to a lower cast.

We should teach people real islam and through out this evil mentality that we have gain from the pagans.

Islam is one, if a girl is pious muslim a guy is pious Muslim, there should not be other factors stopping them from being together.

aslam o alikum
 

misbah ul haya

Junior Member
:salam2:
Its sad cuz i know in Pakistan the muslims have acrquired this from Hindus, who have so many cast and they only marry within the cast and its considered really bad to degrade yourself to a lower cast.

We should teach people real islam and through out this evil mentality that we have gain from the pagans.

Islam is one, if a girl is pious muslim a guy is pious Muslim, there should not be other factors stopping them from being together.

aslam o alikum
asalam u alaikum
first i wanna clear that im a sister not brother. wel brother shaheerpak about educating people there is no use(im not talking about all) only thing left is prayer that may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala turn their hearts towards islam.ameen. im saying this because unfortunately i belong to such family where they consider their caste most important thing.i know what these people think about people of other caste though both are muslims.
wasalam
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
asalam u alaikum
first i wanna clear that im a sister not brother. wel brother shaheerpak about educating people there is no use(im not talking about all) only thing left is prayer that may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala turn their hearts towards islam.ameen. im saying this because unfortunately i belong to such family where they consider their caste most important thing.i know what these people think about people of other caste though both are muslims.
wasalam

:salam2:
Brother Misbah ul Haya (i said brother before too :p ) I would have to disagree with you, i had a conversation with mom regarding this subject it was kinda intense I tried to be polite and not get irritated and she understood somewat, i dont think everyone is going to listen but if we provide the correct Quranic verses and hadith then even if they dont agree it will give them something to think about.
other than that Allah (swt) knows best
:wasalam:
 

alhamdullilah

Stranger
Assalamualaykum,



Excuse me for laughing at this post. I'm not somali, but I know it is not a well kept secret, its not a even a secret let alone 'well kept' :rolleyes: all you have to do is have a very sociable somali friend to hang around with (which I do) and its not just about the race, somali people don't even like somali's from different tribes/areas from their own, for example, 'oh that one is from north somalia, not south like me *raises eyebrow disapprovingly*' or 'that person over there is from my tribe, the wife of my dads 20th cousin once removed'. Its quite impressive how they keep track of absolutely everything and how they're all very well connected ..amusing even!

To be fair, people from my own race are quite notorious for these habits aswell, but its not something Ive ever managed to keep up with (or even tried to).

I'm not happy that the ignorance in my culture amuses you brother/sister. And i'm sorry that you missed my point (which was not to attack any particular culture, let alone mine); how do we deal with this, how do we find a solution. My point was that since our minds have been deeply corrupted by racism through our various cultures (not just somali), our only chance is to try and guard our kids (inshallah if allah blesses me with some) from the racial vibes that penetrate their thinking. We have to change the enviroment we raise our kids in, in order to change our ummah and unify it.

So, bro/sis what was your point again.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
I'm not happy that the ignorance in my culture amuses you brother/sister. And i'm sorry that you missed my point (which was not to attack any particular culture, let alone mine); how do we deal with this, how do we find a solution. My point was that since our minds have been deeply corrupted by racism through our various cultures (not just somali), our only chance is to try and guard our kids (inshallah if allah blesses me with some) from the racial vibes that penetrate their thinking. We have to change the enviroment we raise our kids in, in order to change our ummah and unify it.

So, bro/sis what was your point again.

Hmm I see you may have been a little offended at my post, but really I meant no offence. I guess I laughed at the thought of the antics of my friends rather than your post in particular (your post triggered some amusing things I remember about them) I didnt attack your culture :confused: lol, I said its actually quite impressive how well documented everything is, thats aside from any point about racism or ignorance which no somali person I know of personally, is actually guilty of mashaAllaah.

'Asabiyyah is a major issue and its certainly not amusing, I dont believe anyone race is more or less guilty of it than another race, theyre all the same, and no, I don't find it funny, if you knew anybody who knew me they would instantly tell you its one of the things I utterly despise and will speak against at most opportunities regardless of the consequences.

And ofcourse, I agree, the next generation have to be fully trained to emulate every aspect of the very first generation (The Sahabah) which will inshaAllaah see these problems come to an end.

Assalamualaikum.
 

alhamdullilah

Stranger
I apologize for getting offended, I understand constructive criticism, i just didnt see the "constructive" part. I'm sorry for that.
 

Rashadi

Junior Member
:salam2: brothers and sisters,
as some might remember ive kinda come out open and started to point out things to people around me which are called islamic but are Culturic thing and its my goal to help us become a become muslim and be a muslim 1st then pakistani, indian, american etc etc

Since many people have adapted this approach where they say something that is not a part of Islam but show that its important in islam.
e.g. Marriage only within culture (some even argue that marriage only within a certain region)

Many times people say marriage in culture is important and its the only way to go cuz thats islam if we dont do marriage in culture our kids or we are not going to be good muslims!!

So i was thinking about this and after having another discussion with someone ... I thought about it and I was wondering would it right to call such innovations are marriage only within culture Bidah, cuz I feel like this is not what islam tells us. In Islam, everyone is judged in the sight of Allah (swt) based on their iman, when Allah (swt) says we are judged on Iman than how can we base our judgement on color/culture/region/nationality. I feel like this a innovation in Islam, its not part of Islam and Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) made this very important and clear by telling us all in his final speech that no Arab is better than a non-Arab and no non-Arab is better than an Arab.

By pointing out to people these innovations in Islam by cultures, I feel like its easier to explain the point when you tell them what they are doing is Bidah

Could someone please shed some light on this and help me be better guided.
Thank you brothers and sisters

It is definitely wrong from an Islamic point of view. Nationalism or tribalism is just another form of racism but given anther name. It is Shaytan who likes to divide and those who do so are following his foot steps. As far as culture goes, so long it does not contradict with Islam it is okay. But there are many things people do which have no basis in Islam are purely based on ignorance or ethnic custom. It is definitely wrong but it wouldn't be shirk since it is not associating partners with God. I don't think it would be an inovation either because it is something that has always existed.

Wleykom salam,
 

slaveofAllah88

Slave of Allah (swt)
aslam o alikum brothers and sisters,
as the topic progress i have a lil confusion, I know there is Shirk khafi (not sure if i spelled it right) which is shirk in which you do things to show off like pray to show you, zakat , fasting etc you do it for others but not for islam, i think its called Riya in arabic.

So these cultural practices aren't they on the same line, cuz people do things not listenning to what Allah has commanded us but to show off to the world, e.g. wedding many times they dont want to marry outside culture cuz what would the people around us think, But they dont consider the fact that Allah (swt) made us all equal unless its our deen which makes us better than others

So is this a type of shirk then, I know no one is associating partners with Allah (swt) but Riya is that a shirk too ?
i know i read about this shirk somewhere please correct me if im wrong
thank you
 

safiya58

Junior Member
aslam o alikum brothers and sisters,
as the topic progress i have a lil confusion, I know there is Shirk khafi (not sure if i spelled it right) which is shirk in which you do things to show off like pray to show you, zakat , fasting etc you do it for others but not for islam, i think its called Riya in arabic.

So these cultural practices aren't they on the same line, cuz people do things not listenning to what Allah has commanded us but to show off to the world, e.g. wedding many times they dont want to marry outside culture cuz what would the people around us think, But they dont consider the fact that Allah (swt) made us all equal unless its our deen which makes us better than others

So is this a type of shirk then, I know no one is associating partners with Allah (swt) but Riya is that a shirk too ?
i know i read about this shirk somewhere please correct me if im wrong
thank you

:salam2:

dear brother hope this will be helpfull for you:


Glimpses from the book "Riyaa: Hidden Shirk"


In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful


by Abu 'Ammaar Yaasir Qaadi


Linguistically riyaa comes from the root "ra`aa" which means to see, to behold, to view. The derived word 'riyaa' means "eyeservice, hypocrisy, dissimulation; dissemblance."

From a Sharee`ah point of view, "to perform acts which are pleasing to Allah, with the intention of pleasing other than Allah". Thus riyaa originates in the heart.

....from page. 25...

Mahmood ibn Labeed reported that the Allah's Messenger said, "The thing that I fear most for you is the minor Shirk; Riyaa" (Ahmad in his Musnad)

Aboo Sa`eed reported that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) came to us while we were discussing about Dajjaal and said, "Should I not inform you of that which I fear for you even more than the dangers of Dajjaal? It is the hidden Shirk; A person stands to pray, and he beautifies his prayer because he seeas the people looking at him." (Sunan Ibn Majah vol. 2, #3389)

Aboo Moosaa al-Ash`aree reported that Allah's Messenger delivered a sermon to them one day and said, "O People! Fear this Shirk (meaning riyaa), for it is more inconspicous than the crawling of an ant." (Authenticated in Saheeh al Targheeb wat-Tarheeb, no. 33)

...from page 45...."The causes of Riyaa"

The primary cause of riyaa is a weakness in Eemaan. When a person does not have strong faith in Allaah, he will prefer the admiration of people over the pleasure of Allah.

There are three symptoms that are indicative of riyaa, and it is essential that a believer avoid all of them.

1] The love of Praise---as mentioned in a hadeeth of the first three people being thrown into the hellfire; the scholar (who taught for fame), the martyr (who faught for fame), and the person who gave his money in charity (so people would say he is generous). All three of these people desired the pleasure of people over the pleasure of Allah. The person who desires the praise of people must feel some pride in himself, for he feels himself worthy of being praised. There is a danger, therefore, of him becoming arrogant and boastful.

Aboo Hurayrah quoted Allah's Messenger (saaw) as saying: "Allaah, Most Great and Glorious said: Pride is My cloak, and greatness is My robe, so whoever competes with Me, with respect to either of them, I shall cast him into Hell" (Saheeh Muslim, vol. 4 #6349, Sunan Aboo Dawood, vol. 3 #4079)

Aboo Hurayrah quoted Allah's Messenger (saaw) warning about a person's adoration of himself: "There are three destructful things: desires that are followed, greediness that is obeyed, and a person's self-admiration and conceit; and this is the worst of the three"

Allah also warned against falling into the category of those Christians and Jews whom the Qur`an mentions:

"Do not assume that those who rejoice in what they have done, and love to be praised for what they have not done, think not that they are absolved from punishment, (but rather) for them is a painful torment." (Al-Imran : 188)

2] Fear Of Criticism

No one likes to be criticised. The dislike of criticism regarding religious practices may be divided into two catagories:

a] The first catagory is that of a person who neglects a commandment of Allah in order to avoid the criticism of his peers. However, the true believers are described in the Qur`an as follows: "...They do not fear the criticism of those who criticize. And this is the blessing of Allah; He gives it to whomsoever He wishes. Verily, Allaah is Self-Sufficient, all Knowing. " (Al-Maa`idah : 54)
b] The second catagory is that of a person who obeys certain commandments of Islaam, not for the sake of Allaah, but because he fears people will look down on him and criticise him if he does not do it. For example, a man may make his formal prayers in the mosque because he does not want people to crticise him for praying at home, or to think that he is not praying at all.

3] Greed for people's possessions

If a person covets what other people possess, whether it is rank, money or power, then he will wish them to envy him similarly. For example, if he is jealous of a position of a certain person in society, he will try by every possible means to attain the same position. Such desires lead people to spend their lives putting on a show for other people so that they will admire their rank, money, or power.

These three catagories are implied in the following statement of the Prophet Muhammad (saaw). Aboo Moosaa related that a person came to the Prophet (saaw) and asked: "A person fights to defend his honor (i.e. to avoid criticism), another to prove his bravery (i.e. to be praised for it), and a third to show off (i.e. so that his position can be seen); of these three, which one fights in the way of Allah? " He (saaw) answered:

"Whoever fights to make the word of Allaah prevalent [i.e. to bring honor to Islaam, and to establish it in the land], he is the one who fights in the way of Allaah" (Saheeh al-Bukhari vol. 4 #65)

Some scholars advised:

"Remove the causes of riyaa` from yourself by considering the opinion of people as important to you as animals and small children. Do not differentiate in your worship between the presence of people or their absence, or between their knowledge of your actions and their ignorance. Rather be concious of the infinite knowledge of Allaah alone."

....lastly, from page. 77...(summarized)

The Ways to Avoid Riyaaa

1] Increasing knowledge of Islaam
2] Du`aa
The prophet (sallallaahu `alayhi wa salam) taught the specific du`aa for riyaa:
"Allahumma innaa na`oothu bika an-nushrika bika shay`an na`lamuhu, wa nastagfiruka limaa laa na`lamuh. [O Allaah, we seek refuge in you from committing shirk knowingly, and ask your forgiveness for (the shirk that we may commit unknowingly"]
3] Reflecting upon Heaven and Hell
4] Hiding one's good deeds
5] Reflection upon's oneself's shortcomings
6] Accompanying the Pious
7] Knowledge of Riyaa`
 

yakubpasha

Junior Member
:salam2: brothers and sisters,
as some might remember ive kinda come out open and started to point out things to people around me which are called islamic but are Culturic thing and its my goal to help us become a become muslim and be a muslim 1st then pakistani, indian, american etc etc

Since many people have adapted this approach where they say something that is not a part of Islam but show that its important in islam.
e.g. Marriage only within culture (some even argue that marriage only within a certain region)

Many times people say marriage in culture is important and its the only way to go cuz thats islam if we dont do marriage in culture our kids or we are not going to be good muslims!!

So i was thinking about this and after having another discussion with someone ... I thought about it and I was wondering would it right to call such innovations are marriage only within culture Bidah, cuz I feel like this is not what islam tells us. In Islam, everyone is judged in the sight of Allah (swt) based on their iman, when Allah (swt) says we are judged on Iman than how can we base our judgement on color/culture/region/nationality. I feel like this a innovation in Islam, its not part of Islam and Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) made this very important and clear by telling us all in his final speech that no Arab is better than a non-Arab and no non-Arab is better than an Arab.

By pointing out to people these innovations in Islam by cultures, I feel like its easier to explain the point when you tell them what they are doing is Bidah

Could someone please shed some light on this and help me be better guided.
Thank you brothers and sisters


Asak Brother,

I agree with you, culture is taking over religion.. Something socially unacceptable is given more priority than something that is not unacceptable by ALLAH.

best example is back biting, its so ok to say things about other Muslims, even though this is such a BIG sin.. Worst part is this even happens in Halaqas after the Religious talk is over..

As far as marrying, we should go for deen first, but there is no harm i guess in choosing people from the same race etc.. I am 100% open to marrying some one from other races( i am not advertising that i am available :) ) Its easier for the parents to get along with the inlaws/son in law/daughter in law because they can speak the same language...

Not everyone speaks english fluently, a lot of them are not 100% fluent in it and wouldnt like their sons/daughters to spend their entire lives with some one from a different race and in the process their kids will loose the language they speak and the relationship may be a little formal..

Just to give you an insight into how the mothers/fathers feel about marrying people from other races GENERALLY
 
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