Islam VS Culture

[slaveofAllah88]

:salam2: brothers and sisters,
as some might remember ive kinda come out open and started to point out things to people around me which are called islamic but are Culturic thing and its my goal to help us become a become muslim and be a muslim 1st then pakistani, indian, american etc etc

Since many people have adapted this approach where they say something that is not a part of Islam but show that its important in islam.
e.g. Marriage only within culture (some even argue that marriage only within a certain region)

Many times people say marriage in culture is important and its the only way to go cuz thats islam if we dont do marriage in culture our kids or we are not going to be good muslims!!

So i was thinking about this and after having another discussion with someone ... I thought about it and I was wondering would it right to call such innovations are marriage only within culture Bidah, cuz I feel like this is not what islam tells us. In Islam, everyone is judged in the sight of Allah (swt) based on their iman, when Allah (swt) says we are judged on Iman than how can we base our judgement on color/culture/region/nationality. I feel like this a innovation in Islam, its not part of Islam and Prophet Muhammed (Peace Be Upon Him) made this very important and clear by telling us all in his final speech that no Arab is better than a non-Arab and no non-Arab is better than an Arab.

By pointing out to people these innovations in Islam by cultures, I feel like its easier to explain the point when you tell them what they are doing is Bidah

Could someone please shed some light on this and help me be better guided.
Thank you brothers and sisters

 

[slaveofAllah88]

any thoughts or comments at all?

 

[safiya58]

:salam2:

unfurtunately culture is more important to many muslims than their religion...and you are right there are many things we practice and they have nothing to do wit Islam (forced marriages, honor killings, it is accepted in society when a man commits zina but a girl will be killed for it...!) It is not only bida but it can also be shirk... because what others will think about us comes first instead of what Allah will think about us... for example even someone knows that the prayer is obligatory for every muslim he/she is not praying cuz it is not regarded as bad in the society not to pray... sametime he/she avoids the major sins (like zina...) which are a tabu in the society.... but he/she doesn´t do it for the sake of Allah but bec he/she thinks "what will others think......" this is so sad....

 

[slaveofAllah88]

:salam2:

unfurtunately culture is more important to many muslims than their religion...and you are right there are many things we practice and they have nothing to do wit Islam (forced marriages, honor killings, it is accepted in society when a man commits zina but a girl will be killed for it...!) It is not only bida but it can also be shirk... because what others will think about us comes first instead of what Allah will think about us... for example even someone knows that the prayer is obligatory for every muslim he/she is not praying cuz it is not regarded as bad in the society not to pray... sametime he/she avoids the major sins (like zina...) which are a tabu in the society.... but he/she doesn´t do it for the sake of Allah but bec he/she thinks "what will others think......" this is so sad....

:salam2:
beautiful answer thank you for replying

 

[FreedomFighter]

:salam2:

its mostly the pride that comes from the culture, and they dont want to mix their culture coz they want it to remain pure and they are too proud of it. but in Islam thats not the case. this is a good answer:
sametime he/she avoids the major sins (like zina...) which are a tabu in the society.... but he/she doesn´t do it for the sake of Allah but bec he/she thinks "what will others think......" this is so sad....

 

[slaveofAllah88]

:salam2:

its mostly the pride that comes from the culture, and they dont want to mix their culture coz they want it to remain pure and they are too proud of it. but in Islam thats not the case. this is a good answer:
sametime he/she avoids the major sins (like zina...) which are a tabu in the society.... but he/she doesn´t do it for the sake of Allah but bec he/she thinks "what will others think......" this is so sad....

:salam2:
true I think then the sister is right its shirk

 

[Isra]

As Salamu Alaikome

I noticed something else as a new Muslim...........sometimes its not just the race but the age that can cause problems if someone wants to marry. For example if the woman is older than the man. I believe it must be the culture that is causing the problems because it cant be Islam. Our prophet (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Salam) was the perfect example and he married a woman much older than he as his first wife. Then he married a woman much younger than he after his first wife passed. So this is our perfect example of what is acceptable in Islam yet people today have a huge problem with differences in age or race and especially if the woman is much older or younger. This is NOT Islam and we all need to keep in mind the example of our Prophet (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Salam) if we have any doubt about what is really Islam. He was our example and we should put all other ideas aside and live our lives in Islam way to the fullest.

This is just my opinion and may Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong.

 

[palestine]

As Salamu Alaikome

I noticed something else as a new Muslim...........sometimes its not just the race but the age that can cause problems if someone wants to marry. For example if the woman is older than the man. I believe it must be the culture that is causing the problems because it cant be Islam. Our prophet (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Salam) was the perfect example and he married a woman much older than he as his first wife. Then he married a woman much younger than he after his first wife passed. So this is our perfect example of what is acceptable in Islam yet people today have a huge problem with differences in age or race and especially if the woman is much older or younger. This is NOT Islam and we all need to keep in mind the example of our Prophet (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Salam) if we have any doubt about what is really Islam. He was our example and we should put all other ideas aside and live our lives in Islam way to the fullest.

This is just my opinion and may Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong.

asalamu alaykum wrwb...sister i agree with everything you've said except the age part. alhtought the prophet s.a.w married an older and a younger woman he also adviced one of the sahabah to marry a woman younger than him rather than older because he will be able to play with her and do activities with her that way. however from my personal opinion i do not think that a especially if you are a young adult woman that you should marry a man older than you by 20 or 40 years. it's not that we hate older people but i know of many women who have married men older than them by 40 years or 20 years and so on and they do not get along well because they do not understand one another due to the fact that they are in different levels of life. for example: my father is around 74 years old and my mom is 48....by the time i was nine, my dad would not let us really talk much in the house as talking and laughing bothered him. he could not stand even a little bit of noise. and now that he is much older and vulnerable to many diseases( he now has diabetes and blood pressure) he does not allow his grand children( my sister's children) to come to our house and if they do they have to sit quietly and kids do not sit quietly and he gets angry easily if they make noise. i don't mind someone who is 5-10 yrs older but above that i find it unagreeable because of the fact that i want someone who will be able to take the noise and play with children(i'm not saying older spouses dont' do this but it's not common among them). we all need someone who understands us and age can make a difference in that as well. for example: an 18yr old girl might still have a childish heart and wants to go do some type of activity or so on...the older spouse(maybe 40 yrs old) might find it unacceptable and foolish...there fore they are not on the same level. i hope you understand what i mean. but none the less if a girl want so marry a guy who's much much older than her then that is her right and her decision and no one should refuse for her to do so. there was this woman who married a man about 20-48 years older than her...soon after they got married he immediately died because he was ill b4 they got married....she had to raise the children by herself and suffer.
asalamu alaykum wrwb and hope i did not offend you. as for marrying outside the race...i really do enourage it. diversity is needed in our ummah. after all we should love one another despite our cultural backgrounds.:salam2:

 

[Abdullah_77]

salaam

Culture technically means a way of life. Deen means roghly the same thing. If your deen is Islaam, and if you say you're Muslim then your only culture/deen should be the way of life muhammad ar-Rasuulullah(sallalaahu 3aleyhi wa sallim) taught. For example if you converted to Islam you shouldn't have converted to be 'An Arab" or "A Pakistani"..you should have converted to be a Muslim.

What you say akhi is completely true. One of Muhammad's(salallahu aleyhi wa sallim)'s most famous hadith was the hadith that an arab is no more important than a non arab and a non arab is no more important than an arab yet only thorugh piety and good deads. Its very sad to hear today in our ummah astaghfirullah that we still have all the racial tension between the different tribes . Its like we're living still in some ways in the days of Aljahiliyyah. Islam was sent to cure this evil; racsism-the disease that can grow very easly the hearts of man. Muhammad(sallalahu aelyhi wa sallim) was sent to unite mankind into one ummah. Its sad we still have some in our ummah who are trying to break it apart and its sad we still have some in our ummah astaghfirullah trying to keep our ummah from uniting.

May Allaah(subhaanahu wa ata'ala) cure all diseases in our hearts
amin

 

[slaveofAllah88]

salaam

Culture technically means a way of life. Deen means roghly the same thing. If your deen is Islaam, and if you say you're Muslim then your only culture/deen should be the way of life muhammad ar-Rasuulullah(sallalaahu 3aleyhi wa sallim) taught. For example if you converted to Islam you shouldn't have converted to be 'An Arab" or "A Pakistani"..you should have converted to be a Muslim.

What you say akhi is completely true. One of Muhammad's(salallahu aleyhi wa sallim)'s most famous hadith was the hadith that an arab is no more important than a non arab and a non arab is no more important than an arab yet only thorugh piety and good deads. Its very sad to hear today in our ummah astaghfirullah that we still have all the racial tension between the different tribes . Its like we're living still in some ways in the days of Aljahiliyyah. Islam was sent to cure this evil; racsism-the disease that can grow very easly the hearts of man. Muhammad(sallalahu aelyhi wa sallim) was sent to unite mankind into one ummah. Its sad we still have some in our ummah who are trying to break it apart and its sad we still have some in our ummah astaghfirullah trying to keep our ummah from uniting.

May Allaah(subhaanahu wa ata'ala) cure all diseases in our hearts
amin

:salam2:
inshallah our ummah will be cured -- ameen.
We all have to take part in taking steps to make sure our generation realizes Islam is above all, yes same culture is sometimes nice cuz you might get along better but thats not the criteria.

So my knowledgable brothers and sisters, the Question in my mind is
Could this cultural innovations be called Bidah or as one of the sister sugguest even SHIRK :astag: cuz i dont want to say something wrong.

thank you for all the beautiful answer my brothers and sister
and sister Tree 2008, you are right age should not be a barrier but bro/sister Palestine I think we have to remember that a consent from both guy and girl is required in Islam, so if they both agree and want to be together than i dont think the society should look at it negatively.

We should always follow Quran and Sunnah and inshallah we all will be together in Jannah - ameen

 

[BinteShafi]

So my knowledgable brothers and sisters, the Question in my mind is
Could this cultural innovations be called Bidah or as one of the sister sugguest even SHIRK :astag: cuz i dont want to say something wrong.

Asslam u Alaikum wr wb brother,

The issue you have pointed should be condemned without any doubt. We have unfortunately similar problems not only in marriage but also in many other daily life issues.

Culture is given precedence over religion due to various reasons. Many times our elders choose to do such acts out of lack of knowledge. Going against the tradition that has been inherited from many past generations is not easy for them (our elders). This tradition has not been developed overnight rather is the result of contribution of many factors developed over a long period of time e.g. living together with Hindus for many centuries. As per my observation, the our elder's fear (of the consequences of any decision which go against their tradition) is not Religious rather Social. I have not seen any parent denying marriage out of family/region/culture/language/status with the assumption "That couple's kids will not be good Muslims" rather their fears are more like "She/He will not adjust in our family.....you both won't be able to get along etc.....What the society/people will think/say about us....in our culture marriage is not between two persons BUT between two families etc etc"

I would not call this Bidha/innovation in religion....though in many people's opinion it should be called so. In my humble opinion a lay man is not authorized to use such terms for an act about which Scholars have not given any Fatwa/Opinion. My suggestion is that you should ask scholars of Islam...and then act accordingly....and Allah knows the best.

Jazak Allahu Khayra,

 

[alhamdullilah]

I was just having a discussion with a friend of mine as we came back from friday prayer on marriage and marrying a non-somali woman. We are all just human, with all our flaws and all our tendencies. So he admitted that he would not marry a non-somali, and I said that i probably would lean toward my own ethnicity as well but that if I met a beautiful, intelligent, pious girl from another race I would jump at the chance to marry her (hey I had to raise the stakes). But he completely refused that scenario even, and started talking to me about how he wanted his kids to be able to identify with a certain group and have a home with the somali community, and if the kid was half nonsomali that he might be made fun of or feel alienated.

I had to admit he had a point, especially considering how racist my culture can be (yes its a very well kept secret ); until I thought about it some more and realized that thats the reason unity of UMMAH before unity of ETHNICITY is so important. I explained to him that if his child was half somali and half mermaid but all muslim, that the child would always have a community that supports him and looks past race/species (just a joke). Ofcourse my friend is hard headed so he completely disagreed , but thats besides the point.

But until we can have a generation of muslims that don't grow up with deep rooted racist ideals, and instead establish deep rooted unity within the ummah, I can understand where he is coming from. But then again, change starts with us/me.

 

[a_muslimah86]

:salam2:

This topic is quite preoccupying isn't it???

I think most people put intermarriage under the con list because they are *scared* or *threatened* by the undiscovered aspects of one's life/personality/culture/etc.

Nonethelss..to go as far as calling it a bida'ah or a shirk...I think is a bit too far and too dangerous..because *calling matters a bida'ah*..may actually turn to one!..and when you say *shirk*..you're using a term which is *grave* in Islam and it entitles some very deep explanations and meanings (shirk is eternal torment!..that's one little peek onto how *grave* this term is)..so one has to be VERY CAREFUL..because we'll be *playing judge* on a very LARGE & DANGEROUS scale!

You may say it is *un-Islamic* to prevent or discourage intermarriage..I think that would fit excellently..but bida'ah and shirk each have their own definition and conditions and we should stick to them...

Personally..if I met a person against intermarriage and wanted to earn the ajer of ridding them of this prejudice..I would use the term *un-Islamic* backed up by hadiths and verses..first regarding racial/ethnic/class equality..then zoom it down unto hadiths and verses regarding marriage..keeping logic..ration..and calm steady..with the possibility *I might need to have more discussion sessions with this person* very much in mind..

*If you have a bad weed in your yard..you don't go and cut off the stem..you dig deep and locate all of its roots..then you pull them out gently & slowly to fully ensure that it won't grow back*

The same thing should be done with someone who has prejudices & biases about intermarriage..you just have to discuss..and repeat..discuss..review your points..and repeat..until you get somewhere

 

[BinteShafi]

:salam2:

This topic is quite preoccupying isn't it???

I think most people put intermarriage under the con list because they are *scared* or *threatened* by the undiscovered aspects of one's life/personality/culture/etc.

Nonethelss..to go as far as calling it a bida'ah or a shirk...I think is a bit too far and too dangerous..because *calling matters a bida'ah*..may actually turn to one!..and when you say *shirk*..you're using a term which is *grave* in Islam and it entitles some very deep explanations and meanings (shirk is eternal torment!..that's one little peek onto how *grave* this term is)..so one has to be VERY CAREFUL..because we'll be *playing judge* on a very LARGE & DANGEROUS scale!

You may say it is *un-Islamic* to prevent or discourage intermarriage..I think that would fit excellently..but bida'ah and shirk each have their own definition and conditions and we should stick to them...

Personally..if I met a person against intermarriage and wanted to earn the ajer of ridding them of this prejudice..I would use the term *un-Islamic* backed up by hadiths and verses..first regarding racial/ethnic/class equality..then zoom it down unto hadiths and verses regarding marriage..keeping logic..ration..and calm steady..with the possibility *I might need to have more discussion sessions with this person* very much in mind..

*If you have a bad weed in your yard..you don't go and cut off the stem..you dig deep and locate all of its roots..then you pull them out gently & slowly to fully ensure that it won't grow back*

The same thing should be done with someone who has prejudices & biases about intermarriage..you just have to discuss..and repeat..discuss..review your points..and repeat..until you get somewhere

Beautifully said...Jazaki Allahu Khayra dear sister.

 

[Idris16]

he also adviced one of the sahabah to marry a woman younger than him rather than older because he will be able to play with her and do activities with her that way.

:salam2:
Wasn't it a virgin girl prophet Muhammad SalaAllahu Alayhi Wasalam recommended to marry?

 

[slaveofAllah88]

:salam2:
thank you for very beautiful answers, especially my sisters BinteShafi and a_muslimah86 you two said it really beautiful Inshallah i will not call it something that might be displeasing to Allah (swt) to get my point across, but as you guyz recommended

And i think we all should work on this cuz its a important subject, our Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) made racism subject so important, that was his final speech about racism cuz he didn't want people to fall into this bad act.

I know im putting alot of emphasizes lately on culture, but I think we all should, all of us muslims should correct ourselves.

Alhumdulilah, Islam is spreading cause of its beauty, cuz of wisdom cuz Allah (swt) has ade Islam a guidance to those who see Allah (swt) sign, and Inshallah islam will continue to grow.

But my reverts brother and sister go through so much, Its not easy to leave your family and friends (in many occasion) totally change your life style. When our new brothers and sisters enter Islam in many occasions instead of giving them a hug with open arms (symbolic plz lol) alot of muslims pass along comments that they are not as good as born muslims WHICH really GRINDS MY GEAR.

Sorry to say but alot of muslims are more focused on making non-muslim revert than actually helping them after they revert, Please embrace our new Muslims and make them feel at home.
and show them that in Islam we are all brothers and sisters, and marriage is a big issue cuz of many people that revert like every human being want to get married and start a life BUT when us born muslims put culture before ISLAM thats not right we better change our ways, this is not Islam and we all need to get out of this

So all my brothers and sisters who are getting the message please talk to people around you and change Muslims to the real Islam.
:salam2:

 

[safiya58]

:salam2:

This topic is quite preoccupying isn't it???

I think most people put intermarriage under the con list because they are *scared* or *threatened* by the undiscovered aspects of one's life/personality/culture/etc.

Nonethelss..to go as far as calling it a bida'ah or a shirk...I think is a bit too far and too dangerous..because *calling matters a bida'ah*..may actually turn to one!..and when you say *shirk*..you're using a term which is *grave* in Islam and it entitles some very deep explanations and meanings (shirk is eternal torment!..that's one little peek onto how *grave* this term is)..so one has to be VERY CAREFUL..because we'll be *playing judge* on a very LARGE & DANGEROUS scale!

You may say it is *un-Islamic* to prevent or discourage intermarriage..I think that would fit excellently..but bida'ah and shirk each have their own definition and conditions and we should stick to them...

Personally..if I met a person against intermarriage and wanted to earn the ajer of ridding them of this prejudice..I would use the term *un-Islamic* backed up by hadiths and verses..first regarding racial/ethnic/class equality..then zoom it down unto hadiths and verses regarding marriage..keeping logic..ration..and calm steady..with the possibility *I might need to have more discussion sessions with this person* very much in mind..

*If you have a bad weed in your yard..you don't go and cut off the stem..you dig deep and locate all of its roots..then you pull them out gently & slowly to fully ensure that it won't grow back*

The same thing should be done with someone who has prejudices & biases about intermarriage..you just have to discuss..and repeat..discuss..review your points..and repeat..until you get somewhere

:salam2:

it was my idea that it could be shirk...! but I think you didn´t understand me well...cuz I was not talking about intermarriage only but about the whole culture thing... I know that shirk is very evil and one has to be carefull with blaming others of this. that´s why I said (when your culture is more important to you than your deen, when you care about what people will think but not about what Allah will think about you) it could be shirk. I didn´t say it is shirk! I also believe that many of us don´t really know what shirk exactly means... but Allah knows best otherwise I agree with you... when we meet brothers and sisters who didn´t understand the truth right we should try our best to make them reaalize the truth by talking and sharring the knowledge given to us by Allah with them... if Allah wants they will be guided...

 

[safiya58]

:salam2:

I want to share my personal experience about this matter. I´m a born muslim but I was not taught about Islam... I was taught that there are "harams and halals" and many things we practice ( I allready mentioned in my post before) was so wrong to me... that´s why I was in doubt if Islam is the right religion.. I was not smart enough to understand that all the evil people are following is not Islam but culture... When I attented first time an islamic school and had my first lesson about islamic law I was sooo overwhelmed bec of the the beauty and justice of this religion... Alhamdulliah that I´m a muslim

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

it was my idea that it could be shirk...! but I think you didn´t understand me well...cuz I was not talking about intermarriage only but about the whole culture thing... I know that shirk is very evil and one has to be carefull with blaming others of this. that´s why I said (when your culture is more important to you than your deen, when you care about what people will think but not about what Allah will think about you) it could be shirk. I didn´t say it is shirk! I also believe that many of us don´t really know what shirk exactly means... but Allah knows best otherwise I agree with you... when we meet brothers and sisters who didn´t understand the truth right we should try our best to make them reaalize the truth by talking and sharring the knowledge given to us by Allah with them... if Allah wants they will be guided...

Assalamu Allaicomu dear sister Safiya

This can not be called SHIRK at all dear sister Alhmadulillah,becasue shirk means to belive that beside Allah exist one or more Gods who deserve to be praised.

But I agree that puting culture before Islaam is very wrong and it can be called biddah(inovations) Astagfirullah. But Allah knows the best

May Alah bless you dear sister

 

[al-fajr]

Assalamualaykum,

I had to admit he had a point, especially considering how racist my culture can be (yes its a very well kept secret ); until I thought about it some more and realized that thats the reason unity of UMMAH before unity of ETHNICITY is so important. I explained to him that if his child was half somali and half mermaid but all muslim, that the child would always have a community that supports him and looks past race/species (just a joke). Ofcourse my friend is hard headed so he completely disagreed , but thats besides the point.

But until we can have a generation of muslims that don't grow up with deep rooted racist ideals, and instead establish deep rooted unity within the ummah, I can understand where he is coming from. But then again, change starts with us/me.

Excuse me for laughing at this post. I'm not somali, but I know it is not a well kept secret, its not a even a secret let alone 'well kept' all you have to do is have a very sociable somali friend to hang around with (which I do) and its not just about the race, somali people don't even like somali's from different tribes/areas from their own, for example, 'oh that one is from north somalia, not south like me *raises eyebrow disapprovingly*' or 'that person over there is from my tribe, the wife of my dads 20th cousin once removed'. Its quite impressive how they keep track of absolutely everything and how they're all very well connected ..amusing even!

To be fair, people from my own race are quite notorious for these habits aswell, but its not something Ive ever managed to keep up with (or even tried to).