ketchup Halal/haram?

U

umm hussain

Junior Member
It might sound silly but having been a ketchup 'fan' when having chips for some reason only last month I decided to check the ingredients and amongst them there is something called spirit vinegar and because I was a bit suspicious of the name I left it. I came back home did a bit of research to find out what spirit vinegar really is and to confirm my suspicion it is made from alcohol and this is the article:

What is Spirit vinegar?

Spirit vinegar is distilled before the acetification process has finished and contains a small amount of alcohol which changes the flavor dimension. This is the strongest of all the vinegars and is used for the same purposes as distilled vinegar.
More vinegar types.

I have been to the supermarket many times since 'discovering' this and decided to look at all the ingredients of the different types of ketchup on the shelves and ALL contained spirit vinegar, including the store own brands and the organic one as well.
 
Happy 2BA Muslim

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
:salam2:

Jazak Allah khayran Umm Hussein!! I didn`t know that. Subhan Allah. Now the question is: If we drink lots of this spirited vinegar, is it enough to cause intoxication? Based on that, we will know if it is halal or haram.

Vinegar in which there is a percentage of alcohol​

Praise be to Allaah.

It was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343). If the vinegar would cause intoxication in large amounts, then a little of it is haraam, and it comes under the same ruling as wine. If a large amount of it does not cause intoxication, then there is no reason not to sell it, buy it or drink it.



Fataawaa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 13/47
 
Happy 2BA Muslim

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
Ruling on vinegar made from wine​

Question:
Are wine and spirit vinegar halal? Considering all vinegar is made from oxidising a form of alcohol and that normal vinegar is supposed to be halal?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

Vinegar is a well known basic foodstuff, made from wine of which the composition has changed so that it is no longer sweet but is acidic or sour.

Jaabir (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What a good food is vinegar.” (Reported by Muslim, 3/1623)

When wine turns to vinegar by itself, without any deliberate treatment needed for it to be changed, it is permissible to eat, drink and handle it, according to the consensus of the scholars, because of the hadeeth quoted above.

But if the wine has become vinegar because of deliberate treatment, by adding vinegar, onions, salt etc., or by any other process, in this case the scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) differ as to whether it is permissible.

The Shafi’is, Hanbalis and some of the Maalikis say that it is not permissible to deliberately change wine to vinegar because then it is not pure. The evidence (daleel) for this is the hadeeth of Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with him) who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked whether wine could be changed to be used as vinegar. He said, ‘No.’” (Reported by Muslim).

Abu Talhah (may Allaah be pleased with him) reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was asked about some orphans who had inherited some wine. He said, “Pour it away.” He was asked, “Could they not make it into vinegar?” He said, “No.” (Reported by Muslim).

The reason for this is:

Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, has commanded us to avoid wine. Keeping it and treating it until it turns into vinegar means handling it and being involved with it by storing it and benefitting from it, and this is not permitted.

It is permitted for a Muslim to buy vinegar from someone who is selling it, unless he realizes or comes to know that it was produced by means of a deliberate process. ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “… There is nothing wrong with a man buying vinegar from the people of the Book, if they sell it, so long as he knows that they did not deliberately process it from wine.” (Al-Mughni, 8/330)

And Allaah knows best.

(Bidaayat al-Mujtahid li Ibn Rushd, 1/461; Kashshaaf al-Qinaa’ li’l-Bahwati, 1/187; Fath al-Qadeer li Ibn al-Hammaam, 8/166; al-Majmoo’ li’l-Nawawi, 1/225; al-Mughni li Ibn Qudaamah, 8/319).





Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid
 
Globalpeace

Globalpeace

Banned
Asslamo Allaikum,

Thats what I was taught! but some Hanafi scholars think otherwise by the same token there are other Hanafi scholars who think the same as I was taught...Hence the production of two different Fatawa for Brothers/Sisters to compare!

hafz said:
I have always heard vinegar is halaal its the nature of vinegar even spirit vinegar.
Click to expand...
 
American Muslim

American Muslim

Just Another Slave
ok, can someone find a definite here. You might not know it, but ketchup is a food group in the States. The issue is near and dear on this end....

It seems as if some say yes...some say no.

I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread...grrrrrrr....lol
 
Globalpeace

Globalpeace

Banned
Party at my Place?

Asslamo Allaikum,

I would like to invite all who are concerned about this matter to my place...You guys bring the Nik-Naks; I will provide the Ketchup; we will order some Samoasa, Kebaba & pakoras from somewhere...

Lets discuss this while we enjoy ourselves and dip nice lovely Samosas & Pakoras, Kebabs in 'juicy Ketchup' , Shall we?

Whos interested? I live near Birmingham

Boys night out to discuss some differences in opinion in Fiqh?

:)

P.S: On a serious note...I quoted 2 different opinions from the Hanafi Madhab and have also added the link to the Shaykh who runs the site & you can tell from his views after listening to him and make up your mind!

I have also quoted my teacher & the brother has also quoted a trusted opinion to indicate that Spirit vinegar is NOT Haram!

American Muslim said:
ok, can someone find a definite here. You might not know it, but ketchup is a food group in the States. The issue is near and dear on this end....

It seems as if some say yes...some say no.

I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread...grrrrrrr....lol
Click to expand...
 
Happy 2BA Muslim

Happy 2BA Muslim

Islamophilic
I have a very important question to me because it make me crazy. Please can you tell me is brandy vinegar HALAL or HARAM? That is because it is in ketchup mustard, mayonnaise and someone told me that in bred in all juices (apple or orange) there is alcohol content from 0,1% - 0,5%. Is it now haram when I drink apple juice or eating bread? Baraka Allahu fikum!

Answer: In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

The juristic rule of istihlak states that any substance that is so INSIGNIFICANT because of its quantity as mixed with an overriding halal substance(s), then it is forgiven. If we apply this rule to your question, we would say what experts have concluded in this regard, that any quantity of alcohol that does not exceed the amount of 0.5% is not intoxicating, and therefore it would not render juice or bread haram when mixed with them. The same applies to ketchup, mustard, etc.

People who misunderstand this rule are often confused with the interpretation of the hadith “whatever intoxicates in big quantity, a small amount of it is haram.” However, the hadith is only talking about the “intoxicating substance” that is not mixed with others. For example, a Muslim is not allowed to take little drops of wine and drinks them under the pretext that he won’t get drunk. But when the alcohol is mixed with other substance to the effect that it has become irrelevant (up to 0.5%) then it has become another substance that falls under the rules of either istihlak or istihalah (transformation).


Allah Almighty knows best.

Mohamed El-Moctar El-Shinqiti

IslamonLine
 
American Muslim

American Muslim

Just Another Slave
thanks...minor crisis at the thought of ketchup being haram! I don't know what we would do over here! lol. Really, thank you for the clarification.
 
virtualeye

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
Happy 2BA Muslim said:
I have a very important question to me because it make me crazy. Please can you tell me is brandy vinegar HALAL or HARAM? That is because it is in ketchup mustard, mayonnaise and someone told me that in bred in all juices (apple or orange) there is alcohol content from 0,1% - 0,5%. Is it now haram when I drink apple juice or eating bread? Baraka Allahu fikum!

Answer: In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

The juristic rule of istihlak states that any substance that is so INSIGNIFICANT because of its quantity as mixed with an overriding halal substance(s), then it is forgiven. If we apply this rule to your question, we would say what experts have concluded in this regard, that any quantity of alcohol that does not exceed the amount of 0.5% is not intoxicating, and therefore it would not render juice or bread haram when mixed with them. The same applies to ketchup, mustard, etc.

People who misunderstand this rule are often confused with the interpretation of the hadith “whatever intoxicates in big quantity, a small amount of it is haram.” However, the hadith is only talking about the “intoxicating substance” that is not mixed with others. For example, a Muslim is not allowed to take little drops of wine and drinks them under the pretext that he won’t get drunk. But when the alcohol is mixed with other substance to the effect that it has become irrelevant (up to 0.5%) then it has become another substance that falls under the rules of either istihlak or istihalah (transformation).


Allah Almighty knows best.

Mohamed El-Moctar El-Shinqiti

IslamonLine
Click to expand...

Kindly have a look at the above bold statement. What if few drops of wine I take and they go mix with the water in my stomach? I am not a scholar but my heart simply does not accept the logic of minor Najs acceptable to consume. May Allah forgive me if I am wrong.

Allah Knows the Best and I know very little.


Wassalaam,
VE
 
U

umm hussain

Junior Member
virtualeye said:
Kindly have a look at the above bold statement. What if few drops of wine I take and they go mix with the water in my stomach? I am not a scholar but my heart simply does not accept the logic of minor Najs acceptable to consume. May Allah forgive me if I am wrong.

Allah Knows the Best and I know very little.
Wassalaam,
VE
Click to expand...

I agree with you brother. You can even mix it with water or coke before you drink it. If I get a bit of brandy and mix it with coke does it then become halal.

I am not a scholar either but I would rather stay away from it considering the amount of alcohol retained in something that is cooked etc....

I know it is difficult sometimes to accept that things we love can be haram or makrooh so therefore we choose to follow a fatwa that supports what we like. It is best to stay away from doubtful matters. If someone passes a fatwa on something that doesnt 'feel' right in my humble opinion it is best to stay away because scholars do get things wrong sometimes

Speaking from experience I have noticed there are some scholars who do not know issues pertaining to everyday life. They are very knowledgeable in Quran and Sunnah but know nothing about current events or about how other people live so they pass Fatwas that do not apply to what you are asking about and vice versa some know a lot of current affairs and next to nothing about Quran and sunnah and I think they both do not help the Ummah much, there has to be a balance. They just make a general rule. Someone can pass a fatwa whilst sitting in a private jet or 'mansion.' I have many examples but do not want to go off topic.
 
Wulf

Wulf

Junior Member
:salam2:

So...If I drink a brewed Softdrink, made from Hops and barley, with an Alchohol content of 0.1%, ( By my calculations one would have to drink 32.3 gallons of the stuff, non stop, to get drunk). Apart from the risk of drowning, is this OK?

It looks like beer, smells like beer, and tastes like beer.

:wasalam:

Robin
 
Karima

Karima

Junior Member
Asalamualikum,

Ketchup...what about artificial sweetners? And sugar-free gum? There is a sugar-type alchohol....in these items....

How about the gasses that houmous, fava beans, etc. puts off after consumption inside the body?

Salam
 
virtualeye

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
Karima said:
Asalamualikum,

Ketchup...what about artificial sweetners? And sugar-free gum? There is a sugar-type alchohol....in these items....

How about the gasses that houmous, fava beans, etc. puts off after consumption inside the body?

Salam
Click to expand...


That is why it is told in Islam that in the bad times near judgmentday, a pious man will be equal to the Most Pious people in the old times. Why is that? Because it is very difficult to control our Nafs and to avoid it from many kinds of tasty foods which contain Haraam things. It is very difficult to keep ourself at simple meal and be grateful to Allah when there are thousands of chocolates, beverages and other eatables out in market,right? And same applies to other fitnahs of current time.

For a toughest day to come (i.e. Judgement Day) there have to be many fitnahs to come. What do you think if all these products in the market are Halaal then where are the fitnahs?


More and more suspicious foods in market do not mean that they have become part of your life and are Halaal now.

Wassalaam,
VE
 
U

umm hussain

Junior Member
Happy 2BA Muslim said:
What is the Muslim’s attitude towards the differences of opinion amongst the scholars?

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8967
Click to expand...

Brilliant article, i especially would like to bold some extracts from it.

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow the errors and mistakes of the scholars, for that combines all kinds of evil. Hence the scholars said: whoever follows that concerning which the scholars differed, and takes the easiest of their fatwas, becomes a heretic, or close enough. Ighaathat al-Lahfaan, 1/228. Heresy means hypocrisy.

and

If the Muslim has enough knowledge to enable him to compare the views of the scholars based on the evidence and to decide which is more likely to be correct, and he can tell what is more correct and more likely to be correct, then he must do that, because Allaah has commanded us to refer disputed matters to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“(And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger, if you believe in Allaah and in the Last Day. That is better and more suitable for final determination”[al-Nisa’ 4:59]

So he should refer the disputed matter to the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and whatever appears to him to be more correct, based on the evidence, is what he should follow, because what is obligatory is to follow the evidence, and he may refer to the words of the scholars to help him understand the evidence.

and

It is not permissible for the Muslim to follow whatever scholarly opinion suits his desires if it goes against the evidence, or to seek fatwas from those who he thinks are going to be lenient in their fatwas.
 
virtualeye

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
Wulf said:
:salam2:

So...If I drink a brewed Softdrink, made from Hops and barley, with an Alchohol content of 0.1%, ( By my calculations one would have to drink 32.3 gallons of the stuff, non stop, to get drunk). Apart from the risk of drowning, is this OK?

It looks like beer, smells like beer, and tastes like beer.

:wasalam:

Robin
Click to expand...

AssalaamuAlaikum,

Brother Robin,

You are newly convert to Islam speically living in the western life. So I just want to share there there might somethings in your life which you might feel difficult to leave or adopt. Whenever such a thought comes to your mind then please remember that we are passing through one of the worst era when most of the predictions by our Prophet (SAW) have come true. You might get it if you look back and compre the last 1400 years progress as compared to the progress in the last 100 years.


Wassalaam,
VE
 
almouchie

almouchie

Junior Member
salam
first time I have heard about this in ketchup
we have many local brands, i will be interested in checking thou

i dont understand this, how is a small percentage 0.5% alcohol in food permissible
many food, meat, steak, & many other cooking type of food, use alcohol to fry , it will disappear , but still it is not permissible to eat food cooked with alcohol
 
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