Madhhab?

[alkathiri]

Assalamualaikum warahmatullah

:salam2:

Globalpeace, nice work alhamdulilah...
Junaid hasan, though u were sarcastic, u do have a good point, Alhamdulilah...

According to wikipedia,

Shafii school is followed by approximately 28% of Muslims world-wide, being the second largest School in terms of followers...

Hanafism has the most followers of about 49% of the total Sunnis living in the world today

Conclusion: Most people follow mazhab with only the 2 school consisting of 77% muslims ( well thats according to wikipedia)

 

[junaid hasan]

jazakallahu khairan brother for yoour information

 

[AbuKhalid]

Brother Jnuaid said :" but problem is who has a lot of time to research the hadith and find the mistakes of those 4 imams? "

The point is not to spend time researching mistakes of 4 imaams. If u really have no time to learn your religion, point is, at least if someone tells u or u came across a conflict in opinions between your madhab and the other one, you have to take the proof from the other and ask the knowledgeable "Big Olamas". Everyone does that ... a christian who has blind faith and never question, will not get answers. A soofi who prays to the graves, and only reads the books of their own shaykh will always be doing that wrong action.

to find their mistakes we hve to be better then them,otherwise its not so easy to find their mistakes.

Keep in mind that the imaams did not deliberately make those "mistakes" but it happens thru ijtihaad and they are rewrded no matter what. Now, the situation is different, the "big Olemas" has told us already where the "mistakes" lie and what is the stronger evidnece. So do not mistake it to mean we are better.

and we have to also have knowledge about all 4 imams and for that we have to spend whole life yas you brothers are did. Mistake or misconception brother. we always start with what we have. I'm not telling any one to abandon 100% their madhab, no one does that! I hope that level of understanding can be reached, otherwise it would be no pooint discussing an issue with "ideas out of the blue".

 

[Assaalik]

Assalaamu 'alaikum

Now that I got you agree that qualifications are indispensable, we can proceed to list what they are. No doubt many will be excluded, maybe even yourself.
Take any mas ala for example; the time for Asr salat. In order for someone to know what is the time for Asr according to the primary sources they must again have all the relevant information, they must know what was abrogated what abrogates, what is figurative etc... All that is a life worth of scholarship. They must have a mastery of Arabic and pre-Islamic Arabic poetry in order to be familiar with the subtle nuances of the language. All what I have mentioned so far is just a sample of the indispensable qualifications needed to know the time for Asr. Again I'm sure everybody on this forum has now been excluded from this high and noble station. As for those who are true to themselves and do not let their whims deceive them prepare yourselves for taqleed. And as for blind following, the only way to avoid a so called "mistake" is to posses those same qualifications otherwise how could you know if the Imams proof came from some source you are not familiar with.
And who decides what opinion to take, your nafs?
Just resorting to a dictionary can be classified as "blind following", or taking Imam Bukharis word for the authenticity of a hadeeth. Do you think you can produce what Imam Bukhari produced? Mastery of hadeeth is just part of the qualifications.

Wa salam

 

[Assaalik]

Assalaamu 'alaikum

Imam Shafi’i stipulated as the requirements of the mujtahid:

لا يحلّ لأحد أن يفتي في دين الله إلا رجلا عارف بكتاب الله بناسخه ومنسوخه ومحكمه ومتشابهه وتأويله وتنزيله ومكيه ومدنيه وما أريد به, ويكون بعد ذلك بصير بحديث رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبالناسخ والمنسوخ ويعرف من الحديث ما عرف من القرآن, ويكون بصيرا باللغة بصيرا بالشعر وما يحتاج إليه للسنة القرآن, ويستعمل هذا مع الإنصاف, ويكون بعد هذا مشرفا على اختلاف أهل الأمصار وتكون له قريحة بعد هذا, فإذا كان هذا فله أن يتكلم ويفتي في الحلال والحرام, وإذا لم يكن هكذا, فليس له أن يفتي.

It is not permitted for anyone to give fatwa in the religion of Allah except a man who knows the Book of Allah, what is abrogated of it and what abrogates it, and what is unambiguous and clear and what is ambiguous and unclear, and what is has an explanation other than its literal meaning, and what the circumstances surrounding the revelation of the individual ayats, what was revealed at Makkah and what was revealed at Medinah, and what it means. After that, he must be knowledgeable about the sayings of the Messenger of Allah (on whom be grace and glory from Allah), what is abrogated of it and what abrogates it, and he should know about the hadith what he knows about the Qur’an [that is, the different types of statements of like general and specific and literal and figurative and so on some of which he indicated above and which number twenty in all according to our ulama], and after that he must have mastery of the Arabic language, and be knowledgeable about poetry [the pre-Islamic and early poetry which is authoritative in defining the meaning of the words and expressions used in the Qur’an and hadith] and what is needed [from it ] for the [explanation of the language of] Qur’an and the sunnah, and he should use it [that is, adduce it as reference or authority] impartially. In addition [to the foregoing requirements] he should be apprised of the differences of opinion among the authorities of the different cities; furthermore, he should possess natural genius (qarihah / قريحة). So if that is the case[ that is, if a person possesses the above-mentioned qualifications], he may speak about, and give juridical decision (fatwa) concerning what is lawful and what is unlawful; otherwise, he must not give decisions (fatwa).


Wa salam

 

[acedoc]

Weak Hadiths

brother there is nothing in madhab which is not related with quran and hadiths.all the imams has proof from hadiths and quran.there is nothing from their own in madhab.if you can then give a example which is not related with sunnah but the imams use it as the rules of madhab.In madhab there is nothing called innovation.




brother there is a big different between this 2 words : fabricated and weak hadiths.
there is nothing called weak hadiths.
the speech of prophet muhammed (sw) is more valueble then this world.
a hadiths is never weak but the chain(sanad or how many people quote it) is not always strong like many other hadiths.

and what means fabricated?
you know that better then me.

and as you said allah give us wisdom to recognize the truth from fabricated hadiths. ameen.

Audu Billah a min Shaitan ar rajeem:

I did not make up word the word "weak" or Daeef hadith it is a category assigned by scholars of hadith. For example see below example.... theere are whole books on WEAK hadiths to steer muslim s away from it. Case-in point: if we ignore the credentials of hadiths which muhatditheen have spend their lives to verify or discredit then we are simply following "the imams" (as you put it) blindly.

Here is an example of weak of book on Daeef (which literally means weak) hadiths:

Question:
I want to make sure whether the following hadeeth is sound: It was narrated from Ma’qil ibn Yasaar (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever says three times each morning, ‘A’oodhu Billaah il-samee’ il-‘aleem min al-shaytaan il-rajeem (I seek refuge with Allaah the All-Hearing, All-Knowing, from the accursed Shaytaan), and recites the last three verses of Soorat al-Hashr, Allaah will send seventy thousand angels to send blessings upon him until evening comes, and if he dies on that day he will die a martyr. And whoever says that in the evening, will be given a similar status.

Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

This hadeeth was narrated by al-Tirmidhi in: Book of the virtues of the Qur’aan, Chapter: One who recites a letter of the Qur’aan, what reward he will have. No. 2922. Also narrated by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad, no. 19795

Its isnaad includes Khaalid ibn Tahmaan of whom Ibn Hajar said: He is sadooq but was accused of being a Shi’i then he became confused.

Taqreeb al-Tahdheeb, 1644.

It was classed as da’eef (weak) by al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him). See Da’eef Abi Dawood, 2922.

May Allah gide us all towards the True Knowledge instead of simply arguing here.

 

[Abdullah101]

‘A’oodhu Billaah il-samee’ il-‘aleem min al-shaytaan il-rajeem

Audu Billah a min Shaitan ar rajeem:
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.

This hadeeth was narrated by al-Tirmidhi in: Book of the virtues of the Qur’aan, Chapter: One who recites a letter of the Qur’aan, what reward he will have. No. 2922. Also narrated by Imam Ahmad in his Musnad, no. 19795

Its isnaad includes Khaalid ibn Tahmaan of whom Ibn Hajar said: He is sadooq but was accused of being a Shi’i then he became confused.

Taqreeb al-Tahdheeb, 1644.

It was classed as da’eef (weak) by al-Albaani (may Allaah have mercy on him). See Da’eef Abi Dawood, 2922.

May Allah gide us all towards the True Knowledge instead of simply arguing here.

:salam2: bro,

This not to refute your claims but add to cause I happen to study this particular Hadith from my scholar directly.

The answer above mentions sahaba Khaalid ibn Tahmaan, but does not mention about another sahaba named Ma' qal bin Yasar who also narrated this same Hadith.

If this Hadith mentioned "Khaalid ibn Tahmaan of whom Ibn Hajar said: He is sadooq but was accused of being a Shi’i then he became confused." than of course to the ordinary Muslim thinks this is "weak" but it does not mention the other Sahaba like Ma'qal bin Yassar who also narrated this according to Abu Isa At Tirmidhi.

I hope you get my point. If ordinary Muslims like us really want to argue regarding the Hadith, do not just take one source from one scholar and use it against another just to prove ur point. How about the other Hadith by other sahaba I mentioned like Ma'qal bin Yassar?

Narrated by Ma'qal bin Yassar from Prophet Muhammad s.a.w," Whoever recites three times every morning I seek refuge with Allah the All-Hearing, All-Knowing, from the accursed Shaytaan), and recites the last three verses of Soorat al-Hashr, Allaah will send seventy thousand angels to send blessings upon him until evening comes, and if he dies on that day he will die a martyr. And whoever says that in the evening, will be given a similar status.

Just be careful before you erase traditions of Rasullullah. Do you have enough prove beyond a reasonable doubt to do so?(I do not blame you but it should let you look out for more daleel first). This is what me less confident of searching for opinions from the internet!

Ulamas used this Hadith to encourage Muslims to memorise the particular Quran verse, recite it everyday and fully understand its meaning. For those who oppose this Hadith are discouraging fellow Muslims to do so. Which is better? Who will be responsible? You choose.

This is just plain differing opinions from Salafi followers and Mathab followers.
Why? Different criterias of choosing which Hadith is valid and not. There will always be differing opinions. That I can accept.

I apologise and I do not intend to offend anyone. Since I studied about the Hadith above , I have to share with you all.



Always seeking for truth

 

[AbuKhalid]

Brother Abdullah101, I dont get your point ... u just mentioned the exact same hadeeth in your explanation. The hadeeth was narrated by Ibn Yasaar and has Khaalid ibn Tahmaan in the chain. But u made it seem like there are 2 ahadeeth: one includes Ibn Tahmaan and one with Ibn Yasaar in the chain. So maybe that is why you said:

"The answer above mentions sahaba Khaalid ibn Tahmaan, but does not mention about another sahaba named Ma' qal bin Yasar who also narrated this same Hadith." It makes me believe that u thought acedoc quoted another hadeeth by Ibn Tahmaan, when in fact it is the same.

But do not take offence, as I am intending to clarify inshaAllah. If i'm wrong, it is my brothers and sisters duty to correct me.

Also you said "Ulamas used this Hadith to encourage Muslims to memorise the particular Quran verse, recite it everyday and fully understand its meaning. For those who oppose this Hadith are discouraging fellow Muslims to do so. Which is better? Who will be responsible? You choose." I have to agree with u that the ulama have done that, maybe u studied this subject if u learnt mustalahul hadeeth too. But we know it is better to use the authentic hadeeth concernnig memoring Quran and we know there are many.

What I really wanted to say is that we have to agree that it is not up to us to say which hadeeth is good/bad or which mistakes the imaams make etc... This has been done by our scholars, past and present. So what we can do is to learn from them and from their books.

So if the salafis say "do not take that ruling from such and such imaam", it is because we take from the Big Olemas unlike the madhabis (generally speaking) who do not benefit from them. They only take from others who stick to their madhab. Like I said, follow an imaam, if u have no scholars in your area to learn from, but at least .. where scholars (not me or "salafi aka big olemas by brother junaid) have said a mistake was made, leave it for the sake of Allah rather than persisting on it.

 

[Abdullah101]

For Salafi Bro

:salam2:

What I really wanted to say is that we have to agree that it is not up to us to say which hadeeth is good/bad or which mistakes the imaams make etc... This has been done by our scholars, past and present. So what we can do is to learn from them and from their books.

I agree on ur above point brother like I said before this is just plain differing opinions from Salafi followers and Mathab followers.
Why? Different criterias of choosing which Hadith is valid and not. There will always be differing opinions. That I can accept.

So if the salafis say "do not take that ruling from such and such imaam", it is because we take from the Big Olemas unlike the madhabis (generally speaking) who do not benefit from them. They only take from others who stick to their madhab. Like I said, follow an imaam, if u have no scholars in your area to learn from, but at least .. where scholars (not me or "salafi aka big olemas by brother junaid) have said a mistake was made, leave it for the sake of Allah rather than persisting on it.

On your point above unless you can prove with evidence that mathab followers do not benefit from Big olamas of course I don't agree.
Which big Olamas does the mathab do not benefit from? The reality is the followers of each mathab learn all the opinions of the 4 imams in order to understand how the opinions differ. If you implying mathab followers are following blindly from 1 source, I do not know who told you that.

See, I do not disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. If you want to prove something, put all evidence on the table and let people decide. What I see always is the mentality if the salafi opinion is right that means opinion of the mathabs must be wrong. What a one sided affair. Do Salafi 's need to be hostile to Mathab to be a good Muslim? Followers of the Mathab don't need to be that to be a good Muslim you know.

Anyway thanks for your points bro I appreciate it.

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

:salam2:

This topic has been exhausted and is now going in circles.

The answer to the initial question has been answered in the first few posts.

May Allah SWT guide us to the right path, and keep us on it!!!

THREAD CLOSED
:salam2: