Making Judgments

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
Allah, the Exalted, says:

"But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-As-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.'' (9:5)

Its a common practice among muslims to judge aqeedas of other muslims and cast fatwas of kuffr on them even if they perform salah and give zakat. we hear it often that this sect is deviant because its aqeeda is not right. how can we measure the level of eeman of others and judge their aqeedas? All problems of the ummah would be resolved if we all live by the Quran and Sunnah.


May Allah guide us and unite us as one ummah
 

yakubpasha

Junior Member
Amen, brother. Muslims have even classified each other with new names such as Wahhaabis, Salafis, etc. God wants us united and we want us divided!

The key is where do we draw the line? You defined it simply and eloquently; we draw the line at the Quran and the Sunna. As for the Quran, we adhere to its definitive verses (Muhkamaat) and tolerate different interpretations of multi-meaning ones (Mutashaabihaat). And as for the Sunna, we only follow the authentic hadeeths (Saheeh and Hasan). Fatwas must not be made by opinion, but by rigorous, logical analysis of verses and hadeeths.

I agree brother, nowdays we hear this -we must not judge others and we keep saying everyone is Muslim even when they do things opposite the Sunnah/Quran or curse the Sahabis... We cant judge people saying Abdullah will go to hell but we can definitely comment on the practice. The scholars can i mean not us. We are all not Muslims, the people who follow Quran and Sunnah are, not the ones who follow half and make up some story on the rest of Deen.

We should be very careful on giving our Tafseer on the Quran, we cant read a verse and start taking meanings out of it as we are not that qualified.

Allah knows best
 

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
We should be very careful on giving our Tafseer on the Quran, we cant read a verse and start taking meanings out of it as we are not that qualified.

Allah knows best


Asslam alaikum,

i hope we would not end up having a heated debate. InshAllah. we are all here to learn from eachother.

The sole purpose of this thread was to remind myself and all brothers and sisters that we are no one to certify someone a muslim or a nonmuslim. we have ready made fatwas for all those so have bad aqeedas but we are unmindful of our nifaq. who will be in the lowest level of hellfire? it would be munafiqoon not mushriqoon.

I really admire ulemas, i am no one as compared with them in knowledge, but its my right to have my own interprations of Quran. It is easy to understand as Allah has told us. The life of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) would help me understand how to put teachings of Quran into practise. There is no intermidiary between Allah and his slave except for Muhammad(PBUH).
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
Asslam alaikum,

i hope we would not end up having a heated debate. InshAllah. we are all here to learn from eachother.

The sole purpose of this thread was to remind myself and all brothers and sisters that we are no one to certify someone a muslim or a nonmuslim. we have ready made fatwas for all those so have bad aqeedas but we are unmindful of our nifaq. who will be in the lowest level of hellfire? it would be munafiqoon not mushriqoon.

I really admire ulemas, i am no one as compared with them in knowledge, but its my right to have my own interprations of Quran. It is easy to understand as Allah has told us. The life of Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) would help me understand how to put teachings of Quran into practise. There is no intermidiary between Allah and his slave except for Muhammad(PBUH).

As salamu alaikkum, be careful with the wordings my brother. Qur'an has volumes and volumes of tafseer, and there is a reason to it. Surah Fatihah itself has a big volume of tafseer. The words La Illaha illah has volumes over volumes akhi. What we have is a close interpretation of the Qur'aan, and even the interpretations have so many mistakes and can never come close to the word of Allah subhana wa T'ala. Remember these ulema have studied all their lives, who are high at their arabic, fiqh, tafseer, etc, and then given fataawa about the deviant people. There is nothing wrong in warning people against a certain deviant sect. What we do not say is that so and so sect will end up in hellfire, so and so person will go to jahanam, etc. We have to be very careful of groups who have immensely innovated in the religion of Allah subhana wa T'ala and these things must be pointed out. We only warn people against sects that have been deemed deviant by the scholars. We have totally no knowledge compared to the ulema, and that is why Allah says which goes along the lines... when in doubt go to the people of knowledge...

I hope I did not offend you in anyway, and if I did, then I ask for your forgiveness akhi.

Wa salamu alaikkum wa rahmathullah.
 
:salam2:

a lot of these matters amplified at around 1990, in "desert storm" time period. But I think it has a lot to do with the internet, because that is when the internet started becoming more among normal people and was affordable.

anyways if you take a closer look, before 1990, there was never much expression like I am this salafy or that salafy. It is one. You just have these half learned brothers, coming with quotes and what not, vilifying others for something they may have said in the past when they were half learned too. So we are not to judge, in sha Allah brothers and sisters will come back to Sunnah wa jam3aa wa salaf assalih. And who can describe that better than Ulama.

as [FONT=&quot]Ali(RA) said:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Do not know the truth by men but rather know the truth, and you will know its of adherents."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
good news: people are going back to the classical texts for learning and interpretation as well.
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]:wasalam:
[/FONT]
 

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
As salamu alaikkum, be careful with the wordings my brother. Qur'an has volumes and volumes of tafseer, and there is a reason to it. Surah Fatihah itself has a big volume of tafseer. The words La Illaha illah has volumes over volumes akhi. What we have is a close interpretation of the Qur'aan, and even the interpretations have so many mistakes and can never come close to the word of Allah subhana wa T'ala. Remember these ulema have studied all their lives, who are high at their arabic, fiqh, tafseer, etc, and then given fataawa about the deviant people. There is nothing wrong in warning people against a certain deviant sect. What we do not say is that so and so sect will end up in hellfire, so and so person will go to jahanam, etc. We have to be very careful of groups who have immensely innovated in the religion of Allah subhana wa T'ala and these things must be pointed out. We only warn people against sects that have been deemed deviant by the scholars. We have totally no knowledge compared to the ulema, and that is why Allah says which goes along the lines... when in doubt go to the people of knowledge...

I hope I did not offend you in anyway, and if I did, then I ask for your forgiveness akhi.

Wa salamu alaikkum wa rahmathullah.

you have not offended me at all, infact i find it to be very beneficial. you have said everything in such a kind manner that even if you had said something bad, i would have not mind it.
Borther there are different tafseers and each differs from the other. no two people can have same interpretation of a verse of quran. the interpretation of quran also changes with the time. If imam Ibn Kasseer were alive today he would have interpreted quran differntly. quran is so eloquent that we might not understand just one ayah in our entire life. but remember there couldnt be more convincing word than the world of Allah. by reading tafseer you would understand quran the way that scholar has understood it. i am not against reading tafseer, but i find it more useful to read Quran without tafseer.
if you think there are some deviant sects you should call them deviants. the only thing which i want to mention was that all our acts, our hostilities, our sympathies, our relations must be guided by the commands of Allah. when Hazrat Abu-Bakr(may Allah be pleased with him) decided to fight against muslims who refused to give zakat, then some sahabas advised him to be lenient with those muslims but Hazrat Abu Bakar replied if they even dont give the rope of an animal in zakat i would fight them. our every act should be under the guidance of Allah which he has revealed on us. if someone repents, offers salah, give zakat then leave their way free, verily Allah is forgiving and merciful. this is the only thing which i wanted to highlight. English is not my even fourth language, may be thats also one of the problems in putting my thoughts across.:)
 
...
If imam Ibn Kasseer were alive today he would have interpreted quran differntly. quran is so eloquent that we might not understand just one ayah in our entire life. but remember there couldnt be more convincing word than the world of Allah. by reading tafseer you would understand quran the way that scholar has understood it. i am not against reading tafseer, but i find it more useful to read Quran without tafseer.
:salam2:
... why did you decide to hold this position, did you ever here any of the scholars say that?

:wasalam:
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
Deviancy has demolished nations akhi...

And we have to be *realistic*...deviancy does exist amongst people who claim Islam as a religion..

It is the duty of the knowledgeable and the zealot over the well-being of the deen and its ummah to *speak* of deviancy..point it out..and provide the destructive solutions to eradicating it..without *sugar-coating*..because deviancy is not a tiny *wart* on the tip of a finger..it is a humongous *tumor* oozing *destruction*..thus..*direct* and *honest* speech should be used at all times..so that *tumor* shrinks and disappears completely!

True..we should not get so carried away as to assign people their *hereafter destinations*..because we don't know a thing beyond what Allah (swt) revealed to us.but we *must* declare what these are doing wrong..according to the conditions and outlines set by the deen and its people of knowledge

Many say *oh this sort of talk causes division*..

But if they take the time to mentally and logically penetrate into the *depths* of their statement and the reality which accompanies it...and ask themselves...

isn't *visiting the graves of "saints"* a division?..
isn't *cursing the companions and slandering the wives of rasulullah (saaws)* a division?..
isn't *rejecting the sunnah* a division?..
aren't the people blindly committed to such doomed ideologies *already* causing a division?...
if someone stands up and speaks against such wrongdoings..*is* he/she in-fact causing division?

Because really..How would a man or a woman who says

*such and such is wrong..learn tawheed*..
*such and such is an innovation return to the Qura'an and the Sunnah*..
*such and such is shirk make repentance*..
*such and such is not Islam*

Be a person *making division?*...

Isn't that person trying to plug the leaks in the *fitan dam* so the ummah is not drowned in the waters of misguidance?

How can he/she then be *condemned* for doing so?

Brother..If we all learn our deen as we should be learning it..and we practice it as Allah (swt) Commands us to..if we return to The Qura'an and The Sunnah (like you said)...*that's* when..attaching labels..and expressing criticism would raise eyebrows because *then*...the labels and the criticism would not make sense..and they would *indeed* be an effort of division worthy of condemnation..but unfortunately..this matter is far from existing de-facto..because many prefer to paddle in culture and ignorance over knowing the truth..because it would mean defying the words of *sayyid this* and *maulana that*..and that's when it becomes the duty of the Allah-Loving brothers and sisters to preach Islam..the Islam that Allah (swt) Wants to exist..the Islam Rasulullah (saaws) spread..the Islam the companions practiced..the Islam free of innovation..ostentation..and faulty ideologies..the Islam based on Tawheed..drawn from The Qura'an and The Sunnah

:wasalam:
 

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
:salam2:
... why did you decide to hold this position, did you ever here any of the scholars say that?

:wasalam:

Brother i am no one to say something like that on my own. There are many scholars who believe that every individual must learn arabic to understand quran. because one can not comprehend fully the meaning and message of Quran through translations or tafseers.one of the examples would be the verse which mentions the body of Faroh that his body would be preserved to admonish people, the body was not discovered at the time of Imam IbnKaseer, so he interpreted this ayah differently.
 

ditta

Alhamdu'Lillaah
Staff member
As-salaamu'Alaykum wa'Rahmatullaah,

I agree with sister a_muslimah86 which reflects the ruling by Saalih al-Fawzaan, refer below, but before you read that, I am just going to reiterate what sister a_muslimah86 said: if a person in the Muslim community is known to have beliefs which are contrary to the Qur'aan and Sunnah (I mean 'aqeedah) then that needs to be made known so as to protect others from learning and taking from him, for example going astray in relation to belief in Allah (subhaanahu wa ta'aala) or belief in Qadar.

Knowing his beliefs (the person) would be determined from what he says (through whichever medium) would it not?

I agree though that declaring someone a kaafir is very dangerous but if a person or group believes something in relation to Allahs Names or Attributes (hypothetically) that is contrary to the Qur'aan and the Sunnah of the Prophet :saw:, what would you call that? (Just an example, would you mention his good qualities along with these major bad qualities?)

But as the ruling states, if the person is wrong in relation to a Islamic Jurisprudence matter then that person should be advised with the correct characteristics, obviously you don't start throwing out remarks declaring someone a disbeliever if he errs in this.

We should adopt the middle way, not the lenient way and not the extreme way.

It may look like the ruling is long and that the question doesn't relate, but Masha'Allaah it does, you just have to read it, Insha'Allaah.

I have taken it from the thread below (refer to link) and the footnotes are by Jamaal bin Fareehan al-Haarithee who recorded the summer lessons given by al-Fawzaan of 1413H - 1992, (after working on it) he presented it to al-Fawzaan, who then examined it and made corrections to it, and then gave written permission for publication in 1417H.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41405

Question

It has become widely spread amongst the youth in these days: That one is required to take Muwaazanah (balance between good and bad qualities) when criticising. So they say: “When a person is criticised for his innovation, and his errors are clarified, you are required to mention his good qualities. This is for the sake of fairness and balancing between his good and bad qualities.” So is this methodology for criticising correct, and am I required to mention a person’s good qualities when criticising.

Answer

I have already answered this question previously. However, if the person being criticised is from Ahlul-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, and he has erred in matters that do not violate the Creed, then yes, this person’s good qualities and traits should be mentioned. So his faults will be covered by his aiding of the Sunnah.

But if the person being criticised is form the people of misguidance and deviance or from the people of destructive and doubtful ideologies, then it is not permissible for us to mention this person’s good qualities, if he does have good qualities. This is since if we mention his good qualities, this would mislead the people, and so they would have good thoughts about this deviant individual or this innovator, or this pretender or this partisan (hizbee). And they would then accept the ideologies of this deviant or that partisan.

Allaah, Mighty and Sublime, has refuted the disbelievers, criminals and hypocrites and not mentioned any of their good qualities.

(No one is void of good qualities. Even the Jews and the Christians have good qualities. So based on the principle of those who profess Muwaazanah, we are required to mention the good qualities of the disbelievers every time we talk about them! No one with sound intellect, let alone a student of knowledge, would make such a statement. So think about it, may Allaah grant us all correctness. Therefore, the methodology of the Salaf when criticising is that they would not mention the good qualities. And if they did mention the good qualities (of people whom they are criticising), then it was for the sake of warning the people not to be deceived by them, and not for the sake of, as is commonly said: “Let us not forget his efforts and accomplishments.” And here is one of the strongest examples, in which there can be found guidance and light for the one who reflects:

The Messenger of Allaah :saw: said about the Khawaarij:

“There will come from the loins of this person a people that will recite the Qur’aan but it will not pass their throats. The will shoot out from the Religion just as an arrow shoots out from hunted game. They will kill the people of Islaam and leave alone the worshippers of idols. If I were to live to their time, I would surely kill them just like the killing of the people of ‘Aad.”

(Saheeh al-Bukhaaree: 3166)

And in another narration, he :saw: said:

“Each of you will look down upon his prayer as compared to their prayer, and to his fasting compared to their fasting.”

(Saheeh al-Bukhaaree: 3414)

And in another narration, he :saw: said:

“So wherever you find them, kill them.”

(Saheeh al-Bukhaaree: 3415)

I say: By Allaah, besides whom there is no deity that has the right to be worshipped, the Messenger of Allaah did not mention the merits of these people in order to praise them or to be dazzled by them, but rather he only did this so that the people could be warned about them so that they won’t be deceived by their outward deeds. The Salaf understood this and applied it in their lives, and so it became a methodology that they adhered to.

Just look at Imaam Ahmad (rahimahullaah) and how he eliminated
Al-Karaabeesee when he professed the belief that the recitation of the Qur’aan was created. Imaam ‘Abdullaah bin Ahmad (rahimahullaah) reported in his book “As-Sunnah” (1/165):

“I head my father say:

‘Whoever says my recitation of the Qur’aan is created, this is an evil and vile statement, and it is from the statements of the Jahmiyyah.’

So I said to him:

‘Husayn al-Karaabeesee says it.’

So he replied:

‘He has lied. May Allaah destroy him, the filthy one.”

And Imaam Ahmad said even worse about Al-Haarith al-Muhaasibee, as ‘Alee bin Abee Khaalid reported:

“I said to Ahmad:

‘The shaykh – referring to a Shaykh that would accompany me – is my neighbour. And I forbade him from going to a man, yet he would love to hear what you have to say about him – he is Haarith, the short one (i.e. Haarith al-Muhaasibee). You would see me accompany him for many years, but then once you told me:

‘Do not sit with him and do not speak to him.’

So I didn’t speak to him after that until now. But this Shaykh (companion of mine) still sits with him, so what do you say about him?’

Then I noticed that Ahmad had turned red and that his veins and eyes swelled with anger, and I had never seen him like this before. Then shook out of it and said:

‘That man?! Allaah will deal with him and He has already dealt with him. No one is aware of that individual except for he who has experience and knowledge of him. Avoid him, avoid him, avoid him! No one is aware of him except for he who has experience and knowledge of him. That man sits with Al-Maghaazilee and Ya’qoob and so and so, so throw them all under the views of Jahm. They are destroyed due to (accompanying) him.’

Then the shaykh (‘Alee bin Abee Khaalid) said:

“O Abu ‘Abdillaah! But he narrates Hadeeth, and he is pious and fears Allaah!”

So Imaam Ahmad become angry and began to say:

“Do not let his piety and gentleness deceive you.”

And he said:

“Don’t be fooled by the way he lowers his head, for he is an evil man. No one is aware of him except for he who has experience with him. Do not speak to him, he has no honour. Will you sit with everyone that narrates Hadeeth from the Messenger of Allaah, but yet is an innovator? No! There is no honour for him, nor are the eyes blind (to what he does).”

I say: So where is this so-called “justice” from Imaam Ahmad? He did not even mention one good quality of Al-Karaabeesee or Al-Muhaasibee, even though Al-Karaabeesee was one of the oceans of knowledge, as is stated in his biography. We have indicated this previously. Also refer to Tareekh Baghdad (8/64) and as-Siyar of Adh-Dhahabee (12/79). May Allaah have mercy on Imaam Ahmad. If he were alive in our time, he would not be safe from being accused of being too harsh or of being a government agent or of being a secularist or all the other terms that the partisans (hizbees) use when they are overwhelmed by proofs. This is because he was neither an apologist nor a supporter of the people of innovations and desires. Raafi’ bin Ashras (rahimahullaah) said:

“From the consequences of a person being a sinful innovator is that his good qualities are not mentioned.”

(Sharh ‘Ilal at-Tirmidhee: 1/353)
Likewise, the Imaam’s amongst the Salaf would refute the Jahmiyyah, the Mu’tazilah and the people of deviance and not mention any of their good qualities while doing so. This was since their good qualities were outweighed by their misguidance or their disbelief or their heresy or their hypocrisy. So it is not proper that you refute a deviant or an innovator and then mention his good qualities, such as by saying: He is a good man, he has good qualities, he has such and such, however he has erred!!

We say to you: Your praising him is worse than his deviance, since the people will rely on your praise for him. So if it circulates and spreads around that you praised this deviant innovator, then you have deceived the people and this is opening the door to the acceptance of the ideologies of the misguided ones.

(I will present here, my brother, a real-life incident that confirms the extent of the danger of deluding people by praising the people of innovation. This event was reported by Imaam Adh-Dhahabee and others:
Abul-Waleed Al-Baajee said in his book “Ikhtisaar Firaq-ul-Fuqahaa”, whilst talking about the Judge Abu Bakr Al-Baaqilaanee:

“Once when I asked Abu Dharr Al-Harawee, who inclined towards the Ash’aree beliefs, ‘Where did you adopt these beliefs from’, he informed me: ‘I was once walking with Abul-Hasan Ad-Daaraqutnee when we came upon the judge, Abu Bakr Ibn At-Teeb – the Ash’aree. So Ad-Daaraqtunee embraced him, I asked him: ‘Who is this person for whom you did that which I didn’t believe you would do, since you are the defender of the Religion: The Judge, Abu Bakr Ibn at-Teeb.’ So from that point on, I always went to see him and ended up following his (Ash’aree) beliefs.’”

(Tadhkirat-ul-Huffaadh (3/1104-1105) and Siyar A’alaam an-Nubalaa (17/558-559)

I say: So you see from this story that when Ad-Daaraqutnee did that he did with the Ash’aree Al-Baaqilaanee, praising him, calling him the “Imaam of the Muslims” and so on, those who him were deluded by it and adopted the Ash’aree beliefs because of that. This is the same case with everyone that praises the people of innovations and desires, for he will cause great amounts of people to enter into their belief, especially if he is regarded as one of the righteous and pious individuals, and Allaah knows best.)
And if the one who being refuted is from Ahlul-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, then the refutation should be done with good manners. And he should be cautioned about his errors in matters of Fiqh, the derivation of rulings and matters of legal judgement. So we say: “So and so has erred in such and such issue and the correct view is such and such based on this proof...may Allaah forgive him...This was his Ijtihaad (legal judgement)...etc” This was the refutations were done between the Fiqh scholars of the four madhaahib and others.

This does not destroy his position in knowledge, if he is from Ahlul-Sunnah wal’Jamaa’ah. The members of Ahlul-Sunnah wal’Jamaa’ah are not infallible, they commit errors also. Perhaps one of them was not aware of the proof or he fell short when deriving a ruling. So we don’t remain silent with his error, rather we clarify it whilst making excuses for him. This is base on the Prophet’s :saw: saying:

“When the judge makes a ruling, exerting his judgement, and is correct, he gets two rewards. And when he makes a ruling, exerting his judgement, and is incorrect, he gets one reward.”

(Saheeh al-Bukhaaree (6919) and Saheeh Muslim (1716)

As for matters related to Creed, then it is not permissible for us to praise the misguided ones and those who oppose Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah, such as the Mu’tazilah, the Jahmiyyah, the heretics, the apostates –

(Someone might say – “Why do you talk about the Mu’tazilah, the Jahmiyyah, the Zanaadiqah, the Ash’arees, the Khawaarij and the Murji’ah and always mention them when speaking about the issues of Creed, when these groups have ceased to exist and its adherents have died out?”
As the saying goes:

“They have been consumed by time.”

So there is no reason to mention them. Our response is, and with Allaah lies the success: Yes, these sects existed in the past, and their followers and founders have died out ages ago. However, their ideologies still prevail, and their beliefs have not come to an end. Rather, the followers of these ideas and beliefs, who have been influenced by these groups, are still present among us today.

So their ideologies and beliefs are passed on from generation to generation, and they have people who continue to pass them on. As for the beliefs of the Mu’tazilah, then it is still in existence today and in fact it is widely spread amongst those who ascribe to Islaam. This is since the Shee’ah, in all of their various sects and denominations, even the Zaydees among them, adhere to the beliefs of the Mu’tazilah. As for the Ash’arees, then it is a sect that exists in groups amongst a majority of the Muslims today. As for the belief of Irjaa, is can be found also in the Hanafees who believe that Eemaan (Faith) is just tasdeeq (affirmation) and qawl (speech). So actions, according to them, do not fall into the fold of Eemaan. Even though this Irjaa is of a lesser nature, it is still from Irjaa of the well-known people of rhetoric. And as for the apostates, such as those who believe in wahdat-ul-wujood and other than them, then they exist today as well, since the followers of ‘Ibn Arabee can be found today and they are from the extreme Sufis.

So based on this, when we mention these groups, we are not talking about the actual groups of old, but rather we are talking about the groups that exist among the Muslims today. And this is something that is not hidden from the students of knowledge. So it is only those who are unaware of the realities or those who wish to confuse the people and spread false beliefs that condemn us when we mention these groups. So it is upon such people to ask before they condemn. This is just a short discussion on the matter, but in reality this topic is vast, and Allaah knows best. I will present some examples below that make it clear that the ideologies of these destructive groups are present still today:

1) Sayyid Qutb said in his book “In the Shade of the Qur’aan” (4/2328): “The Qur’aan is present and in existence just like the earth and the heavens.” This is the belief that the Qur’aan is created, and this is the view of the Jahmiyyah and other deviant groups.

2) He also said in the afore-mentioned book (6/4002) while interpreting Allaah’s statement: “Say: He is Allaah, the One” (Surah al-Ikhlaas: 1): “This indeed refers to the oneness of existence. So there is no reality except for His reality, nor is there a true existence except for His existence. So everything else that exists, its existence stems from that actual existence.” This is the belief of wahdat-ul-wujood.

3) Muhammad Qutb said: “The matter requires us to call the people to Islaam all over again, not because, this time, they reject saying ‘Laa Ilaaha IllaaAllaah, Muhammad Rasoolullaah’ with their mouths, as the people during the first stage of strangeness would do, but because the people during this time reject the main requisite Laa Ilaaha Ilaa Allaah, which is: Judging by the Legislation of Allaah.” (Quoted from the book “Our Current Situation” pg. 29)

I say: This is declaring the masses to be disbelievers, in the absolute sense. If this is not so, then how can he judge that the people reject Allaah’s Rule. And how can he liken them to the Days of Ignorance prior to Islaam, without going into detail or making exceptions for those who in fact implement Allaah’s Legislation, and who have no constitution except the Book of Allaah? These kinds of general statements are oft repeated by these writers, as if they don’t acknowledge the existence of the huge Salafee Islamic state located in the heart of Arabia. And it is as if they don’t acknowledge the existence of Muslims in various other regions that are from the followers of Hadeeth, supporters of the Sunnah and adherents to the beliefs of the Salaf.

The strange thing is that thee people, or some of them, were living in this Islamic state (The Kingdom of Saudi Arabic) at the time they made such statements, which contain grave deception for the readers, such that an average person is led to believe that there cannot be found an Islamic state today that professes Laa Ilaaha Illaa Allaah, implementing its requisites and ruling by Allaah’s Laws. And it leads the reader to believe that there cannot be found any individuals or groups that adhere to Tawheed on the face of this earth. And this is deceiving, misleading, and deluding the readers. So let the student of knowledge take not of this phenomenon that is widespread amongst these type of writers, may Allaah guide them to what is correct!
4) One of those who ascribes himself to the Da’wah said: “From the outward display of sins is when a person boasts about his sins in front of his colleagues. So he begins to speak aloud, saying he did such and such, and he goes into detail about many of his sins. This kind of person will not be forgiven (!!), unless he repents, because the Prophet :saw: ruled concerning him that he will not be pardoned: ‘Everyone from my ummah will be pardoned except for those who outwardly profess their evil.’ And what is worse and viler than this is when some of them say: ‘I have unlawful relations’ or ‘I have girlfriends’ or ‘I go on dates.’ This person is filled with sins. Some of these people even record sins on tapes! There is no honour for these people since they are apostates by doing this!! They record how to beguile a girl and get her to commit lewd acts. This is apostasy from Islaam! This person (who records this) will be in the Fire of Hell forever unless he repents!!” (From the tape “A Gathering on the Platform”)

And with regards to some of the singers, whose tapes are spread around by the youth – tapes which call to filthiness and which delude the young boys and girls, he said: “I am certain that the person who does this act, the least that can be said about him, is that he takes sins lightly. And there is no doubt that belittling a sin, especially if it is a major sin and the scholars have unanimously agreed on its prohibition, constitutes to disbelief in Allaah. So the likes of these people, there is no doubt that their actions are apostasy from Islaam. I say this with a tranquil and calm heart.” (The tape: “The Youth – Questions and Problems).

I say: Declaring sinners to be disbelievers and interpreting the spread and distribution of sins amongst the people as being a belittlement of sins that leads to disbelief, this shows hastiness in labelling people disbelievers due to major sins and a lack of showing restraint. And this is from the methodology of the Khawaarij, as they declare people to be disbelievers due to major sins. As for the example he gave of a person manifesting his sins and evil relationships with sinners, then this kind of talk shows that these things are probable but do not consist of clear proof. Perhaps the thing that causes the person to do this is ignorance. This is why we must remind them and not declare them disbelievers. And this is the way of Ahlul-Sunnah wal’Jamaa’ah. Furthermore, belittling something and taking it lightly does not constitute a mockery of it. In fact, everyone that commits a sin, whether major or minor, doesn’t do so unless he first considers it trivial and belittles it. So someone who takes something lightly doesn’t necessarily ridicule it. And who is the one that is free from sins?! And Allaah knows best.
5) Another person said, whilst asking a question and then responding to it and the same time: “Do you think that the evils that are present in our communities today are just sinful matters? Many people assume today that interest is just a sin or a major sin, and that drugs and alcohol are sins, and that bribery is just a sin or one of the major sins... No doubt O brothers!! I have looked into this matter and it become clear to me now that: Many people in our societies have made interest lawful, and refuge is sought in Allaah. Did you know that now the interest-based banks in our country has reached two million customers? I swear this to you by Allaah! Does each individual from these millions know that interest is Haraam, but yet still deals with it even though it is a sin?! By Allaah!! So then, from the danger that is present today, due to the vast amount of widespread sins is that many people have made these major sins permissible and lawful, and we seek Allaah’s refuge! (From the tape Tawheed First (!!).

I reply with the same answer I gave in the previous example. However, this example is more dangerous for the one who made this statement, in my understanding, since in his grave exaggeration, he claims that what occurs in this society from interest, alcohol and bribery, all of these are not just disobedience or major sins. And he swears by Allaah to this! Being determined that the one who commits sins is deeming it to be permissible, without hearing from anyone of them that they clearly assert interest to be lawful, or dealing with bribes to be lawful or using drugs and alcohol to be lawful – to positively deem these people to be disbelievers without hearing these statements come from them or having a reliable proof that bears witness that they in fact deem these acts to be permissible, and to instead only have assumptions, is a clear proof that the weak restraint and lack of consideration this individual has. This is the methodology of the Khawaarij and the Muta’zilah. So my advice to him and those like him is to recant from making such general assertions that are more dangerous for them that for others. Turning back to the truth is better than persisting in falsehood.
A third person, who has a doctorate in ‘Aqeedah said whilst holding in his hand a flyer from a hotel in one of the Gulf states: “In this hotel, it clearly states, that they serve alcoholic drinks, in addition to other things it has...So this is a clear call to alcohol and to naked and intermingled dancing whilst drinking alcohol. We seek Allaah’s refuge from this disbelief.” (From Cassette No. 272/2 of The Explanation of al-‘Aqeedat-ut-Tahaawiyyah)

And he said in a book of his: “Disbelief and apostasy has appeared in our newspapers, evil has spread in our circles and we are called to fornication on our radios and television sets. And we have made interest lawful.” This book was prepared and printed with various different titles. In Pakistan, it went by the title: Removing the Grief from the Scholars of the Ummah.” In America, it goes by the title: “Kissinger’s Promise.” And Egypt, the book was titled: “Facts surrounding the Gulf Crisis.”

Regardless, you have seen how this individual has taken it upon himself to make the statement that we have made interest permissible. But we, all praise be to Allaah, do not deem interest as being permissible, nor does our society. Nor do we consider simply distributing alcoholic drinks to some of the neighbouring regions as being open disbelief that expels one from the fold of Islaam. Rather, that which we worship Allaah with, is that those things mentioned by these individuals that ascribe themselves to the Da’wah – all of these things are sins, apart from disbelief. In fact all of these acts are a lesser form of disbelief (i.e. minor disbelief), meaning that they are acts of disobedience and major sins that negate the completeness of Eemaan of the person commits them, but not the foundation of Eemaan, as the Prophet :saw: said:

“A fornicator does not fornicate whilst being a believer at the time he fornicates. And a thief does not steal whilst being a believer at the time he is stealing...”

No doubt the Eemaan (Faith) that is being negated here is the completeness of Eemaan (i.e. so the sinner does not have complete Eemaan, meaning his Eemaan is deficient). And there are many more examples of this in our Religion. We ask Allaah to grant us understanding of our Religion and to guide these people and their likes to the truth. My dear brother, O you who strives for this Salafee methodology! After seeing these examples of the ideologies present in some of the callers today, not to mention the youth that are deceived by them, and who sit in front of them, taking their ideas and beliefs, which destroy the Creed of the Salaf.
After seeing all this, will you still say: “Why do you talk about these groups that have come to an end”, when their deviant and corrupt beliefs and methods still exist and their misguidance is still present?? So reflect, may Allaah guide you, on the importance of Tawheed and of implementing it, and on warning about all of the deviant groups in every time and place, and on returning back to the methodology of the Salaf as-Saalih (righteous predecessors), in light of the Book and the Sunnah, and Allaah knows best.)

The origin of this misconception – that of making a balance between a person’s good and bad qualities when criticising him – was stated by some of the youth and a treatise what written about it, so this overjoyed some of the youth. I came across this treatise in which the author claims that this Muwaazanah is required. And I came across the treatise of Shaykh Rabee’ bin Haadee al-Madkhalee (hafithahullaah) –

(He is referring to the book “The Methodology of Ahlus-Sunnah wal’Jamaa’ah in Criticising Individuals, Books and Groups.” It was released in a new format in its second edition and contains several important additions. We advise the student of knowledge to read it.)
– in which he comprehensively refutes this treaties whose author claims that Muwaazanah is necessary. In this book, he clarified the incorrectness and the spreading of falsehood found in this view (of Muwaazanah), and he explained the methodology of the Salaf in criticising and that they refuted misguided individuals and didn’t praise them, because if they had praised them, this would have been seen as a contradiction.

(Reference Pg. 56-66)

Wa-alaykum-us-Salaam wa'Rahmatullaah.
 

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
Deviancy has demolished nations akhi...

And we have to be *realistic*...deviancy does exist amongst people who claim Islam as a religion..

It is the duty of the knowledgeable and the zealot over the well-being of the deen and its ummah to *speak* of deviancy..point it out..and provide the destructive solutions to eradicating it..without *sugar-coating*..because deviancy is not a tiny *wart* on the tip of a finger..it is a humongous *tumor* oozing *destruction*..thus..*direct* and *honest* speech should be used at all times..so that *tumor* shrinks and disappears completely!

True..we should not get so carried away as to assign people their *hereafter destinations*..because we don't know a thing beyond what Allah (swt) revealed to us.but we *must* declare what these are doing wrong..according to the conditions and outlines set by the deen and its people of knowledge

Many say *oh this sort of talk causes division*..

But if they take the time to mentally and logically penetrate into the *depths* of their statement and the reality which accompanies it...and ask themselves...

isn't *visiting the graves of "saints"* a division?..
isn't *cursing the companions and slandering the wives of rasulullah (saaws)* a division?..
isn't *rejecting the sunnah* a division?..
aren't the people blindly committed to such doomed ideologies *already* causing a division?...
if someone stands up and speaks against such wrongdoings..*is* he/she in-fact causing division?

Because really..How would a man or a woman who says

*such and such is wrong..learn tawheed*..
*such and such is an innovation return to the Qura'an and the Sunnah*..
*such and such is shirk make repentance*..
*such and such is not Islam*

Be a person *making division?*...

Isn't that person trying to plug the leaks in the *fitan dam* so the ummah is not drowned in the waters of misguidance?

How can he/she then be *condemned* for doing so?

Brother..If we all learn our deen as we should be learning it..and we practice it as Allah (swt) Commands us to..if we return to The Qura'an and The Sunnah (like you said)...*that's* when..attaching labels..and expressing criticism would raise eyebrows because *then*...the labels and the criticism would not make sense..and they would *indeed* be an effort of division worthy of condemnation..but unfortunately..this matter is far from existing de-facto..because many prefer to paddle in culture and ignorance over knowing the truth..because it would mean defying the words of *sayyid this* and *maulana that*..and that's when it becomes the duty of the Allah-Loving brothers and sisters to preach Islam..the Islam that Allah (swt) Wants to exist..the Islam Rasulullah (saaws) spread..the Islam the companions practiced..the Islam free of innovation..ostentation..and faulty ideologies..the Islam based on Tawheed..drawn from The Qura'an and The Sunnah

:wasalam:



sister, I hope you are aware of the fact that a portion of the army of Hazart Khalid bin waleed(May Allah be pleased with him) belonged to followers of Musalima Kazab, who declared himself as a prophet. when Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed, got even with Kazab, then he took all those followers of Musalima Kazab who repented with him to fight against Persian and Byzantine armies. he never questioned there Aqeeda, eventhough he could have got into a big trouble if these weak muslims had deserted the ranks of muslim army after watching armies of two supper powers of the world then. when some people after the death of Muhammad(PBUH) refused to give zakat they were forced to give the due amount but Hazrat Abu-Bakar(May Allah be pleased with him) never issued fatwas against them. He(May Allah be pleased with him) warned and forced them to come back to islam, not discarded them from islam. He demanded Zakat not issued fatwas against them. Enjoin good and forbid evil, is something which elevates us as a ummah. Enjoin and forbid, what? Not our impulses or whims, it has to be Quran and Sunnah. If Allah enjoins us to leave those who repent, perform salah, pay zakat then who am i to question some ones Aqeeda?

sister if we use hiqma and logic to convice our loved ones than why cant we be patient with some misguided mulims. suppose, if your brother belonged to some deviant sect, how would you have dealt with him? would you have called him kafir, mushriq or bidatee? No, sister even if you had considered him a kafir, mushriq, bidatee you would have never said it infront of him. you would have convinced him with hiqma, reason and logic.

we should not pick and chose while invoking the fatwas. we know there are mushriqs, bidatees, sinners but there are also some munafiqs as well among us. All those who say bad things about wives of Muhammad(PBUH) we must treat them the way we treat someone who says something bad about our mothers. we are sympthatic to people who call Isa(ASW) as a son of Allah and uzair(ASW) as son of Allah which could be the worst lie said against Allah. we try to win over them with reason and logic through da'wa. but this thing ceases to be applied when treating some deviants muslims. I think there should be no discrimination, all human are equal before Allah and we should treat them this way.

I am not a debator at all. My only intention is to seek true knowledge of islam. i hope i have not offended anyone.
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
sister, I hope you are aware of the fact that a portion of the army of Hazart Khalid bin waleed(May Allah be pleased with him) belonged to followers of Musalima Kazab, who declared himself as a prophet. when Hazrat Khalid Bin Waleed, got even with Kazab, then he took all those followers of Musalima Kazab who repented with him to fight against Persian and Byzantine armies. he never questioned there Aqeeda,
Why would Khalid ibn Al-Waleed question their 'aqeedah..if they *repented?*..a man of his wisdom (raa)..would *realize* the connotations of doing so at such a critical time especially..and notice that he took them into the army *after* they repented..which leads one to yet another point..that Al-Waleed (raa)...did *something* to make these people *repent* (i.e. get even with Musailima..like you stated)..which indicates what?..it indicates..seeing a threatening problem..and ending it by all means necessary

Enjoin and forbid, what? Not our impulses or whims, it has to be Quran and Sunnah. If Allah enjoins us to leave those who repent, perform salah, pay zakat then who am i to question some ones Aqeeda?
That's pretty much what I said in the last segment in my reply akhi...if all Muslims unite upon Tawheed..through the Qura'an & the Sunnah..there wouldn't even *be* a need to question the 'aqeedah of others..there would only be a need of *maintenance* and *implementation* of it in religious and even social affairs (where applicable)

sister if we use hiqma and logic to convice our loved ones than why cant we be patient with some misguided mulims. suppose, if your brother belonged to some deviant sect, how would you have dealt with him? would you have called him kafir, mushriq or bidatee? No, sister even if you had considered him a kafir, mushriq, bidatee you would have never said it infront of him. you would have convinced him with hiqma, reason and logic.
Of course..I wouldn't walk up to my brother and say *look here KAFIR!*...I will sit him down..point-out his deviancy..and tell him of what is correct and accepted by Allah (swt)..but I wouldn't use *the apologetics methodology*..as I believe it is *the worst* approach for da'awa..it only makes the dae'ee seem *ashamed* and *inconfident*..but I digress..I will also be *honest* and tell him that he's upon a path of deviancy or worst yet..upon kufur..not because I am being extreme or harsh..but because what he might be practicing or believing can be in-fact *a kufur*..and for me to go and say otherwise or get picky with vocabulary so "I don't hurt his feelings"..can actually make *me* a *munafiqa* and/or a *liar*..and I think even a *deviant* person would have the sense to reject *me* and what I am calling to if he/she senses that I am being a somewhat of a sycophant in my call to him/her..and if he/she rejects my da'awa..then what did I exactly accomplish?..nothing!

we should not pick and chose while invoking the fatwas. we know there are mushriqs, bidatees, sinners but there are also some munafiqs as well among us. All those who say bad things about wives of Muhammad(PBUH) we must treat them the way we treat someone who says something bad about our mothers. we are sympthatic to people who call Isa(ASW) as a son of Allah and uzair(ASW) as son of Allah which could be the worst lie said against Allah. we try to win over them with reason and logic through da'wa. but this thing ceased to be applied when treating some deviants muslims. I think there should be no discrimination, all human are equal before Allah and we should treat them this way.
No akhi..alhamdulillah..da'awa through reason and logic has not ceased to be applied..mashallah many Muslims (scholars or not) take this approach...and they are very successful in having people accept the truth...and setting *reason & logic* aside..why do you think they're successful?..it's because they set aside sympathy..drop "the apologetic" approach..and arm themselves with honesty and knowledge..thus worrying only about removing the filth of deviancy and replacing it with goodness of the message they set out to deliver

I am not a debator at all. My only intention is to seek true knowledge of islam. i hope i have not offended anyone.
You have not akhi..on the contrary..you opened a venue for a good dialogue..because da'awa for deviated peoples should be *top priority* for us Muslims..so we may succeed..and make others (specifically new Muslims) do so as well..it's only our duty for our deen and its followers!

:wasalam:
 

thariq2005

Praise be to Allah!
As salamu 'alaikkum...

I suppose sister a_muslimah86 summed pretty much all that I wanted to say, and added many wonderful points akhi. I have no need to speak anymore now :) Comprimising your deen as a D'aee is the last thing you would want to do, because there is nothing in Islam that we should be ashamed off. A D'aee can always be straight forward yet be nice.
 

Muhammad Saleh

Junior Member
As salamu 'alaikkum...

I suppose sister a_muslimah86 summed pretty much all that I wanted to say, and added many wonderful points akhi. I have no need to speak anymore now :) Comprimising your deen as a D'aee is the last thing you would want to do, because there is nothing in Islam that we should be ashamed off. A D'aee can always be straight forward yet be nice.

I am just a learner i dont have fixed ideas or notions regarding any issue. We can have difference of oppinion regarding things which are ambigous but we should not be having any oppinion when something is clearly mentioned in Quran and sunnah. we have to submit or else we cease to be muslims. None is perfect, we make mistakes but thing which matters the most is our niyya(intentions). Allah would never forsake those who are pure in their intentions. Shah Walliullah(a religous scholar from the sub-continent) was the first one who translated Quran in Farsi, there were many ulemas who opposed and issued fatwas against him but now we can have a copy of Quran in every language.

Brother i never intented to say that we should compromise on our deen to appease others. The message of Quran and sunnah is based on forthrightedness. However we should diffrentiate between arrogants and ignorants. I consider myself ignorant regarding many things but if dont sumbit when truth becomes evident then i become arrogant. The ayah mentioned below highlights this fact. that even Iblees was given a chance to prove his ignorance but he doomed himself by being arrogant.

15:30. So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together

15:32. ((Allah)) said: "O Iblis! what is your reason for not being among those who prostrated themselves?"

15:33. (Iblis) said: "I am not one to prostrate myself to man, whom Thou didst create from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape."

15:34. ((Allah)) said: "Then get thee out from here; for thou art
rejected, accursed.

some of us, while doing dawa dont diffrentiate between ignorants and arrogants. we have to convince ignorants and argue with arrogants with hiqma. By branding everyone belonging to a certain sect or country as kafirs, is ignorance on our part.
 
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