Marrying from prison - over the phone

[IbnAlAawam]

Marrying from prison - over the phone

TWO Super Max inmates who converted to Islam married Muslim women using a three-way telephone hook-up involving the prisoner, his bride and an imam.

Guy Staines, a convicted murderer and former jackaroo, was converted to Islam by the Super Max ringleader Bassam Hamzy.

Soon after, he began an illicit relationship with a female prison psychologist whom he converted to Islam.

She was forced to resign last year when their relationship was discovered.

They then married over the phone. Staines called the woman from the Super Max and an imam joined them on a party line, where they swapped wedding vows according to the Koran.

Although the marriage has no status under NSW law, it is recognised by Muslims.

Another Super Max inmate to marry over the phone was Peter Buchanan, an Aborigine who was also converted by Hamzy.

Hamzy arranged contact between Buchanan and a Muslim woman who was a single mother.

He provided them with sums of money totalling about $600.

After their telephone wedding, Buchanan confessed to his new wife that he was a convicted rapist.

Buchanan was released from jail on parole last year after completing his 13-year sentence.

 

[UmmOf3]

Salaam aleikum

The things women do.....

But really, on a more serious note, is a phone-marriage really valid, islamically? Where were the womens wali? Are they sure he was there?

 

[justoneofmillion]

assalamu aleikum that is what am wondering about too allhamdulillah they emraced islam but what is this imam doing!and how long have they been muslim for before marriage?

wassalam

 

[MubarekMuslimah]

I dont know if I should say alhamdulillah they converted and got married or "oh my gosh they just married convicted murderer/rapist over the phone without knowing!!"

And yeah, is the marriage valid?? Surely, sorry to be graphic but its a must, how will they consumate the marriage when the husband is in prison? Doesnt the marriage have to be consumated within 3 days or some similar time to stay valid?? maybe I have that wrong. Plus yes - Walis, dowry etc etc? how well did they know each other before they got married??

I guess though what we should all be saying is ALHAMDULILLAH for the men repenting and accepting Islam and for getting married! It is Allah swt's will after all.

 

[Happy 2BA Muslim]

Salaam aleikum

The things women do.....

But really, on a more serious note, is a phone-marriage really valid, islamically? Where were the womens wali? Are they sure he was there?

:salam2:

I don`t know about this one Sis, but a Sheikh needs to be asked for sure.

Here is a similar situation from Islam Q&A:

Conducting marriage contract by telephone

Question:
I want to get married to a girl but her father is in another country, and at present I cannot travel there for us to be all together, because of financial and other circumstances. I am also in a foreign country. Is it permissible for me to phone her father so that he can say, “I offer you my daughter So and so in marriage,” and I can say, “I accept,” with the consent of the girl and in the presence of two Muslim witnesses who are listening to what he and I say by means of speakers attached to the phone? Would this be considered as a valid marriage contract according to sharee’ah?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

I put this question to our Shaykh al-Mufti al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz, who replied that if what is described is genuine (and there is no cheating involved), then it achieves the purpose of meeting the shar'i conditions of nikaah and the marriage contract is valid. And Allaah knows best.

Shaykh Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz

 

[UmmOf3]

Salaam aleikum

A marriage does not have to be consumated, if there is a mutual agreement between the spouses.

dowry is easy to transfer, even if one is in jail. And also, it can be agreed to be payed later. And also, sadly, many reverts sell ourselves too short, by demanding 1 dollar and a verse from the Quran... So no need to be a huge dowry anyway.

I feel sorry for the last one, who did not know he was a rapist until after she married him...

 

[UmmOf3]

:salam2:

I don`t know about this one Sis, but a Sheikh needs to be asked for sure.

Here is a similar situation from Islam Q&A:

Conducting marriage contract by telephone

Question:
I want to get married to a girl but her father is in another country, and at present I cannot travel there for us to be all together, because of financial and other circumstances. I am also in a foreign country. Is it permissible for me to phone her father so that he can say, “I offer you my daughter So and so in marriage,” and I can say, “I accept,” with the consent of the girl and in the presence of two Muslim witnesses who are listening to what he and I say by means of speakers attached to the phone? Would this be considered as a valid marriage contract according to sharee’ah?

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

I put this question to our Shaykh al-Mufti al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz, who replied that if what is described is genuine (and there is no cheating involved), then it achieves the purpose of meeting the shar'i conditions of nikaah and the marriage contract is valid. And Allaah knows best.

Shaykh Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz

I know, but another fatwah I read, elaborated the matter, saying that one can not really really trust 100%, if its not people who know eachother in real life also, this must be remembered. Othervice it can easilly be used for forced marriages, for instance.

When its related to visa-aplications, the European Fatwah Council said that it does not have to be valid for aplications for visa's, so here in European Union and for those countries attached through Schengen, like my country, it is not valid marriage, it can not be registrated in court either, because one can not really really know, if it is the persons involved, or not.

 

[justoneofmillion]

assalamu aleikum, i was thinking about it the other way around i mean besides the mahram wali obligatory presence, if i was a prisoner for such a long time and i see other prisoners getting married after becoming muslims cause i think they have visits too, then of course i would become "muslim" i do not know if the method this imam is using is a 100% a reliable and secure one! however i was just asking because there should be some regulation or fatwa on this a lot of people are becoming muslim in prison and this may become a phenomenon of greater amplitude!

wassalam

 

[Amirah84]

Salaam aleikum

A marriage does not have to be consumated, if there is a mutual agreement between the spouses.

dowry is easy to transfer, even if one is in jail. And also, it can be agreed to be payed later. And also, sadly, many reverts sell ourselves too short, by demanding 1 dollar and a verse from the Quran... So no need to be a huge dowry anyway.

I feel sorry for the last one, who did not know he was a rapist until after she married him...

:salam2:

I think what we need to consider is that Allhamdulillah these brothers accepted Islam and that is the most important thing and we should be happy for them. Also they are our brothers. In terms of dwelling on their past sins and exposing them, then that's not to be done by us. Here is a similair question and answer below. Hope that's helpful.

Question:
As-salam wai lai kum,
When helping brothers/sisters to find suitable Muslim partners, what questions can be asked, and what is forbidden to ask ?
Can one ask about their past when they were non-Muslim or not practicing Muslims ?
Can one ask ones wife/sister to describe in detail the appearance of an intended wife or describe in detail to them regarding a brother ?
Was Salam

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

If you want to look for a wife for someone, or a husband for a woman, then you can ask him about his wishes, such as the desired age, level of education, employment situation, country and origin and position of the family, and whether he has any preferences about her general appearance, such as skin colour, height, etc. The most important characteristic to ask about is a person’s level of commitment to Islam. This kind of useful question is fine.

But asking for details of a person’s past and wanting to know what sins they might have committed when they were ignorant about Islam – this is not right at all. Allaah covers people’s sins and loves to see them covered (i.e., not dragged out into the open). So long as a person has repented, his sins have been wiped out. Islam deletes whatever came before, so why should we ask questions that will only embarrass people? Allaah accepts people’s repentance without their having to confess or expose their sins to any other person. A number of the Sahaabah had committed adultery and murder repeatedly, or had buried infant girls alive, or stolen things, but when they entered Islam they were the best of people. No one needs to be reminded of a shameful past; it is over and done with, and Allaah is the All-Forgiving, Most Merciful. What matters when considering a person for marriage is how that person is now: is he righteous or not? Has he cut all ties with his past and his wrong deeds, or not? If he is clearly living a good and righteous life now, then it is wrong to dig up the past. If there is any fear of anything that could have future implications, such as certain diseases and so on, then there are medical tests which can give the answer and put your mind at rest.

As far as giving a detailed description of a prospective wife to someone is concerned, this can be done in writing: one of her mahram relatives (i.e. a blood relative to whom marriage is permanently forbidden) or a woman who knows her can write down a description, then a trustworthy person can deliver it to one who is seriously considering a marriage proposal. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “No woman should describe another woman to her husband as if he can see her.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 4839)

The wisdom behind this prohibition is the fact that a husband might like the sound of what he hears, so he may divorce the one who described the other to him, or there may be temptation to do wrong. (Commentary on the above hadeeth in Fath al-Baari).

We ask Allaah to help us all to do that which He loves and will earn His pleasure. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid





Sister Amirah

 

[Daud McGuire]

salam everyone

Aint that biddah? Thats sounds like a takeaway marriage.

Call this number and we will get you hitched, just £1.90 a minute. Imams on the line as we speak. Prison, space, the desert a jungle, doesnt matter you can complete your dean by the drop of a call.