Muslim World Inflamed Over Rushdie Knighthood
- Thread starter Abu Hannah
- Start date
abdallahbilal
Long Live Palestine
I guess everyone has the right of not being insulted. And yes, morality condemns insulting people and condemns murder. If "human rights" does not grant me dignity, then it's not the solution.
Waterdrop:
We take the existence of language as a matter of fact in everyday life. We use it to think and speak and write. We take it for-granted because we are so familiar with it, because its there, in our heads and in our mouths, at our fingertips, all the time.
Oddly we are only often half aware of what we are saying, half conscious of our thoughts and the meanings that arise from them. Nor do we always listen carefully to what other people say. Also we may not always consider the possible effects of our thoughts and words, which may spread way beyond the user.
The Qur'an wasn't delivered as a set of images scratched into a cave wall. It wasn't numeric, or sculptural, it wasn't found in the patterns in the stars .
The message was conveyed in beautifully structured rhyming and harmonic language.
Why do you think that was? Is language special?
We take the existence of language as a matter of fact in everyday life. We use it to think and speak and write. We take it for-granted because we are so familiar with it, because its there, in our heads and in our mouths, at our fingertips, all the time.
Oddly we are only often half aware of what we are saying, half conscious of our thoughts and the meanings that arise from them. Nor do we always listen carefully to what other people say. Also we may not always consider the possible effects of our thoughts and words, which may spread way beyond the user.
The Qur'an wasn't delivered as a set of images scratched into a cave wall. It wasn't numeric, or sculptural, it wasn't found in the patterns in the stars .
The message was conveyed in beautifully structured rhyming and harmonic language.
Why do you think that was? Is language special?
It all depends on what your idea of an insult is. If someone tells me that they don't believe in a Christian God and calls him all sorts of insults and blasphamy i'd just laugh and tell them that God will judge them and that would be that. Take the Denmark cartoons for instance. People wanted to kill others. Only you can control yourself, others can't.
YOUR morality condems insulting, mine doesn't care for it but accepts the fact that others have a right to their opinion no matter how wrong it is. Most if not all cultures morality condems murder. No one but yourself can grant dignity. Dignity is something that only YOU can control. Why the obsession with making others comply to your beliefs?
Just because I say people have the right to say anything they want it doesn't mean that I agree with them or my moral compass is going into the same direction. We in the West don't like to be controlled by any ONE body of morality.
While what you're saying is nice and all, it doesn't have anything to do with the topic. I'm not saying that it's ok the insult people, it's just their right to speak their minds.
island muslim
Junior Member
Waterdrop,
So why is that one can't "question the NUMBERS in the holocaust" cause it hurts the sensitivities of the jews??
So why is that one can't "question the NUMBERS in the holocaust" cause it hurts the sensitivities of the jews??
Globalpeace
Banned
3rd-Rate-Rubbish-Literature!
Asslamo Allaikum,
When Satanic verses came out; I wasn’t practising Islam. I saw hundreds of people demonstrate and talk about it; but I met only a single Muslim who actually had read the book!
Most Muslims who were demonstrating had read reviews such as the following:
http://www.jamaat.net/rushdie/Rushdie.html
In my humble opinion; after reading the book; the review falls WAY SHORT OF THE MARK!
Satanic verses is not a piece of literary work; it’s a debacle; its utterly rubbish and not worth the paper that its written on!
If Salman Rushdie hadn’t attacked Islam this book wouldn’t have sold the copies that it did and that’s a fact! He is an astonishingly shocking writer!
I have also read Taslima Nasreen’s stuff (in English because I don’t know Bangali) & its third rate trashy novel stuff that doesn’t get sold at Amazon! Again it would have NEVER sold if she hadn’t taken swipes at Islam!
Same goes for ASRA NOMANI! She was a third rate journalist at best! Now her grand-father was a scholar and I rate him highly!
So these guys are buying publicity!
They were3rd rate 3rd-grade Authors who became champions overnight by attacking Islam! If Muslims read their stuff they will truly know HOW SHOCKING IT IS!
Having said all that; I say with great regret that most of my Brothers/Sisters don’t even have the necessary English language skills to READ let alone critique Salman Rushdie!
DO NOT READ THESE BOOKS! THEY ARE TRASHY THIRD-RATE NOVELS!
Asslamo Allaikum,
When Satanic verses came out; I wasn’t practising Islam. I saw hundreds of people demonstrate and talk about it; but I met only a single Muslim who actually had read the book!
Most Muslims who were demonstrating had read reviews such as the following:
http://www.jamaat.net/rushdie/Rushdie.html
In my humble opinion; after reading the book; the review falls WAY SHORT OF THE MARK!
Satanic verses is not a piece of literary work; it’s a debacle; its utterly rubbish and not worth the paper that its written on!
If Salman Rushdie hadn’t attacked Islam this book wouldn’t have sold the copies that it did and that’s a fact! He is an astonishingly shocking writer!
I have also read Taslima Nasreen’s stuff (in English because I don’t know Bangali) & its third rate trashy novel stuff that doesn’t get sold at Amazon! Again it would have NEVER sold if she hadn’t taken swipes at Islam!
Same goes for ASRA NOMANI! She was a third rate journalist at best! Now her grand-father was a scholar and I rate him highly!
So these guys are buying publicity!
They were3rd rate 3rd-grade Authors who became champions overnight by attacking Islam! If Muslims read their stuff they will truly know HOW SHOCKING IT IS!
Having said all that; I say with great regret that most of my Brothers/Sisters don’t even have the necessary English language skills to READ let alone critique Salman Rushdie!
DO NOT READ THESE BOOKS! THEY ARE TRASHY THIRD-RATE NOVELS!
you can question it all you want. has anyone imprisoned you for asking? Besides, i'm not Jewish.
Globalpeace
Banned
Holocaust Denial is a Crime!
Respected Brother,
1) Holocaust denial is a crime in most Western countries and there are many notable examples of people who have been charged in this regard AND imprisoned such as Richard Verrall (Canada), David Irving (UK), Pierre Guillame (France), Roeland Raes (Belgium) etc. etc. etc. Some of the names mentioned served prison times; some didn't.....
Actually David Irving is sentenced to 3 years in Prison in Austria for denying Holocaust!
2) Many books have been banned under Holocaust denial laws!
3) Now look at the legal definition of Holocaust denial…Holocaust did not occur in the manner and to the extent described by current scholarship….
So I just have to question the number of dead people (not deny it completely) and be sent to prison for it!
4) The last point is, although in EU under regulation Joint action/96/443/JHA Holocaust denial is NOT a crime but the Judge can still optionally (on discretion) send a person to prison for three years for denying Holocaust!
So you can deny anything in Islam or Christianity; no problems….You question the “Extent” of Holocaust and you can be send to prison for upto 3 years at Judges discretion in any EU member state!
Please don’t come back with tittle-tattle as I don’t have time for it; play around with others on the forums and enjoy your time…I have given the exact EU regulation; go see an attorney.
Thanks
P.S: So much for freedom of Speech!
P.P.S: You MUST also know that books/publications depicting and glorifying child molestation are ALSO banned in most Western countries.
Respected Brother,
1) Holocaust denial is a crime in most Western countries and there are many notable examples of people who have been charged in this regard AND imprisoned such as Richard Verrall (Canada), David Irving (UK), Pierre Guillame (France), Roeland Raes (Belgium) etc. etc. etc. Some of the names mentioned served prison times; some didn't.....
Actually David Irving is sentenced to 3 years in Prison in Austria for denying Holocaust!
2) Many books have been banned under Holocaust denial laws!
3) Now look at the legal definition of Holocaust denial…Holocaust did not occur in the manner and to the extent described by current scholarship….
So I just have to question the number of dead people (not deny it completely) and be sent to prison for it!
4) The last point is, although in EU under regulation Joint action/96/443/JHA Holocaust denial is NOT a crime but the Judge can still optionally (on discretion) send a person to prison for three years for denying Holocaust!
So you can deny anything in Islam or Christianity; no problems….You question the “Extent” of Holocaust and you can be send to prison for upto 3 years at Judges discretion in any EU member state!
Please don’t come back with tittle-tattle as I don’t have time for it; play around with others on the forums and enjoy your time…I have given the exact EU regulation; go see an attorney.
Thanks
P.S: So much for freedom of Speech!
P.P.S: You MUST also know that books/publications depicting and glorifying child molestation are ALSO banned in most Western countries.
island muslim
Junior Member
Thank u brother global peace for getting the facts and "enlighting" waterdrop here about the hypocricy of free speech in the west.
Waterdrop:
It has everything to do with the topic. Now concentrate.
The Russian writer Chekhov had a problem. He needed to be able to covey
what it was like to see the moon in the night sky.
It wasn't silvery, it wasn't white, it wasn't like huge round piece of cheese.
No, silver is silvery, white is too vague, and a piece of cheese is .. well.. a piece of cheese and very un-moon-like.
You know his solution- suggest to the reader the moon's reflection in a piece of broken glass. It took him days to come up with that.
The Qur'an is full of these ways of showing us things we otherwise could not convey or understand. But it is so much better and so much more effective than human efforts alone. In the Qur'an you don't just "see" the reflections of things- you get glimpses of what they are.
Maybe the reason the message is language is that language is the one art/communication form we can all use without needing tools or a special area to express it. We carry it all inside us, it weighs nothing so it is portable, Its potentially a perfect gift.
Can you tell me why this has nothing to do with Salmon Rushdie's case?
Do you think he could have applied his gift more thoughtfully?
It has everything to do with the topic. Now concentrate.
The Russian writer Chekhov had a problem. He needed to be able to covey
what it was like to see the moon in the night sky.
It wasn't silvery, it wasn't white, it wasn't like huge round piece of cheese.
No, silver is silvery, white is too vague, and a piece of cheese is .. well.. a piece of cheese and very un-moon-like.
You know his solution- suggest to the reader the moon's reflection in a piece of broken glass. It took him days to come up with that.
The Qur'an is full of these ways of showing us things we otherwise could not convey or understand. But it is so much better and so much more effective than human efforts alone. In the Qur'an you don't just "see" the reflections of things- you get glimpses of what they are.
Maybe the reason the message is language is that language is the one art/communication form we can all use without needing tools or a special area to express it. We carry it all inside us, it weighs nothing so it is portable, Its potentially a perfect gift.
Can you tell me why this has nothing to do with Salmon Rushdie's case?
Do you think he could have applied his gift more thoughtfully?
Salaam,
I promised myself I would not write. Here I go again.
Dear waterdrop, you make me shed the cobwebs of my mind.
Freedom of speech; in the US there has existed a list of writers and poets and directors whe were not able to obtain visa to come here. Polansky is one, Pablo Neruda was never given a visa. The list is gragantuan today. I am thinking of the Beatles in th 1960's in England..ask the surviving members of what happened to them. All the poor guys did was sing silly love songs.
Before you attack a group of people look into your own backyard. Freedom of speech is a funny term. In the US it is supposed to be a first amendment right...for a select few...as usual if you need an extensive or comprehensive list I will be glad to research the crevices of my mind and give you a list of names of those who's first amendment rights have been violated.
If you claim to be a member of a group. society, culture, or faith you by the essence of wanting membership abide by the rules of the particular group. If you change you mind..you are no longer a member of the group. Even the Hell's Angles have some bylaws that members abide by. Mr. Rushdie broke the premise of being a group member. He went one step further...he sold his soul to the devil in broad daylight. It is that simple. He accepted knighthood.
I promised myself I would not write. Here I go again.
Dear waterdrop, you make me shed the cobwebs of my mind.
Freedom of speech; in the US there has existed a list of writers and poets and directors whe were not able to obtain visa to come here. Polansky is one, Pablo Neruda was never given a visa. The list is gragantuan today. I am thinking of the Beatles in th 1960's in England..ask the surviving members of what happened to them. All the poor guys did was sing silly love songs.
Before you attack a group of people look into your own backyard. Freedom of speech is a funny term. In the US it is supposed to be a first amendment right...for a select few...as usual if you need an extensive or comprehensive list I will be glad to research the crevices of my mind and give you a list of names of those who's first amendment rights have been violated.
If you claim to be a member of a group. society, culture, or faith you by the essence of wanting membership abide by the rules of the particular group. If you change you mind..you are no longer a member of the group. Even the Hell's Angles have some bylaws that members abide by. Mr. Rushdie broke the premise of being a group member. He went one step further...he sold his soul to the devil in broad daylight. It is that simple. He accepted knighthood.
:salam2:
Rushdie can be rewarded and praised as much as he wants in this world. However, he will have his day in the court of Allah most high. Him and his supporters will get what they deserve and there will be none to help them because there is none mightier or greater than Allah. As Muslims, we cannot utter a bad word about Moses, Jesus or any of the prophets (peace be upon them all) and still call ourselves Muslims. We should not even condone someone speaking ill of them. THAT IS WHAT SEPARATE US FROM THEM. Isn't this a wonderful deen?
Rushdie can be rewarded and praised as much as he wants in this world. However, he will have his day in the court of Allah most high. Him and his supporters will get what they deserve and there will be none to help them because there is none mightier or greater than Allah. As Muslims, we cannot utter a bad word about Moses, Jesus or any of the prophets (peace be upon them all) and still call ourselves Muslims. We should not even condone someone speaking ill of them. THAT IS WHAT SEPARATE US FROM THEM. Isn't this a wonderful deen?
Mirajmom: Very well said.
Waterdrop: A good poet could show you an entire field of vision refracted into a single drop of water. Stars, night sky, moon through a veil of clouds all inside that tiny little hemisphere. But all that would be is your field of vision, and the world as it appears to be distorted in the waters lens . A really good poet could make you feel a sense of wonder.
It wouldn't be the word of Allah swt , it would be a representation of part of Creation. It is easy to confuse.
That is why you have to be careful how you represent what you write.
Waterdrop: A good poet could show you an entire field of vision refracted into a single drop of water. Stars, night sky, moon through a veil of clouds all inside that tiny little hemisphere. But all that would be is your field of vision, and the world as it appears to be distorted in the waters lens . A really good poet could make you feel a sense of wonder.
It wouldn't be the word of Allah swt , it would be a representation of part of Creation. It is easy to confuse.
That is why you have to be careful how you represent what you write.
abdallahbilal
Long Live Palestine
Endlessly - Boring
:salam2:
The thread became boring. It's not about saying blasphemies; u seem not to differentiate between dialoguing with some people over their faith and insulting other people's faith, no need to go over the jargon used in either of them. The problem is that some people mix dicordant concepts and sometimes seperate correlative concepts.
Many non-Mulslims and Muslims on this website do dialogue over some sensitive Islamic and Christian issues, including Waterdrop. Nobody said they insulted anybody's faith. If anybody insults anybody's faith on this website, he will be banned, as far as I know. And as I told u earlier, I would dialogue with christians and non-Muslims peacefully, but I wouldn't insult them.
Nobody here made anybody comply here. This is unfounded. If you mean the protests against Rushdie, then I, like many others on this website, am against the protests because they dont conform with the wisdom of the Quran of avoiding the circle of "action-and-reaction".
We value freedom no less than u think u do. We are all humans after all. However, proudly enough, our version of freedom is insult-free.
:salam2:
The thread became boring. It's not about saying blasphemies; u seem not to differentiate between dialoguing with some people over their faith and insulting other people's faith, no need to go over the jargon used in either of them. The problem is that some people mix dicordant concepts and sometimes seperate correlative concepts.
Many non-Mulslims and Muslims on this website do dialogue over some sensitive Islamic and Christian issues, including Waterdrop. Nobody said they insulted anybody's faith. If anybody insults anybody's faith on this website, he will be banned, as far as I know. And as I told u earlier, I would dialogue with christians and non-Muslims peacefully, but I wouldn't insult them.
Nobody here made anybody comply here. This is unfounded. If you mean the protests against Rushdie, then I, like many others on this website, am against the protests because they dont conform with the wisdom of the Quran of avoiding the circle of "action-and-reaction".
We value freedom no less than u think u do. We are all humans after all. However, proudly enough, our version of freedom is insult-free.
TheHumbleWun
Banned
Salaam,
Western media, including many government officials rushed headlong to support this man (Rushdie) to defend his work under the pretext of 'freedom of speech.' It was yet another occasion of the 'double standard' the west has been playing against Islam. One month prior to the publication of Rushdie's book, the partisans of free speech violated the freedom of expression when they banned the book, Spy Catcher by Peter Write. Why? Because it was against their interest!
Rushdie not only reviled Islam, but also others. He wrote filthy things about blacks, Hindus, Budhhists, women, and used the *F* word countless times. In spite of such filthy expressions in his book, he received a literary award as the best among writers and novelists!
Victoria Gleninng in the Times wrote: "Rushdie has the power of description, and we succumb."
Bill Buford, in the Sunday Times, called his work "A masterpiece."
Hyam Maccoby, in the Sunday Telegraph wrote--"command of variety of English --and width of intellectual reference have been well exercised before, but never on such a scale"
This only goes to prove 2 things:
1) Either the intellectuals of the west have lost their sense of judgment
or
2) They have also started acting develish like Rushdie to recognize such filthy words as *F*; S***t; B***h worthy of receiving the literary award and be classified as the "Masterpiece."
We can also note a few of the many other books that have been banned as well, such as:
1) Richard Hardwood "Did 6 Million Really Die"
2) John Steinbeck "The Grapes of Wrath" (Banned in many places of the U.S.)
3) Frank Snepp "Decent Interval"
We can see that Freedom of Expression/Speech is limited and is only used for the interest of authoritative officials.
Western media, including many government officials rushed headlong to support this man (Rushdie) to defend his work under the pretext of 'freedom of speech.' It was yet another occasion of the 'double standard' the west has been playing against Islam. One month prior to the publication of Rushdie's book, the partisans of free speech violated the freedom of expression when they banned the book, Spy Catcher by Peter Write. Why? Because it was against their interest!
Rushdie not only reviled Islam, but also others. He wrote filthy things about blacks, Hindus, Budhhists, women, and used the *F* word countless times. In spite of such filthy expressions in his book, he received a literary award as the best among writers and novelists!
Victoria Gleninng in the Times wrote: "Rushdie has the power of description, and we succumb."
Bill Buford, in the Sunday Times, called his work "A masterpiece."
Hyam Maccoby, in the Sunday Telegraph wrote--"command of variety of English --and width of intellectual reference have been well exercised before, but never on such a scale"
This only goes to prove 2 things:
1) Either the intellectuals of the west have lost their sense of judgment
or
2) They have also started acting develish like Rushdie to recognize such filthy words as *F*; S***t; B***h worthy of receiving the literary award and be classified as the "Masterpiece."
We can also note a few of the many other books that have been banned as well, such as:
1) Richard Hardwood "Did 6 Million Really Die"
2) John Steinbeck "The Grapes of Wrath" (Banned in many places of the U.S.)
3) Frank Snepp "Decent Interval"
We can see that Freedom of Expression/Speech is limited and is only used for the interest of authoritative officials.
cmelbouzaidi
Junior Member
Wow, I feel like I have re-entered the twilight zone (the last time being when Bush was re-elected in 2004). They are going to or have knighted that creep, Rushdie.... just unbelievable to me. I never read his cr*ppy book but I saw a video where the late and wonderful Ahmed Deedat read a few lines from it... It was then that I realized that it was, as Globalpeace mentioned, complete and utter rubbish!! It even insults British people terribly and I found that offensive too, although I am Irish 
I believe it was a mistake when the fatwa came out against Rushdie as I don't think the book would have got a second look if Ayatullah had not got involved...... And then suddenly it was on all these university curriculum as a "must read" in English literature..... Just bizarre.... Any time I see that creep on TV, my skin crawls... I was embarrased to be Irish when I learned that Bono hid Rushdie in his home in Ireland for some time..... Rushdie is such an arrogant jerk, religious differences aside. Also, he knew what the reaction would be to his stupid book and he got what he wanted ultimately, fame he would not have had otherwise as he is not the intellectual genius he thinks he is Knighted for what, exactly, for saying obscene things about the Brits in his book? Also, I often wondered what happened to his relatives in Pakistan after the Satanic Verses, I would be keeping it very hushed if I was related to such a disgusting creep..... Sad news and it shows the state of affairs in Europe.... I will have my eyes open when I move to France shortly, Insha Allah
I believe it was a mistake when the fatwa came out against Rushdie as I don't think the book would have got a second look if Ayatullah had not got involved...... And then suddenly it was on all these university curriculum as a "must read" in English literature..... Just bizarre.... Any time I see that creep on TV, my skin crawls... I was embarrased to be Irish when I learned that Bono hid Rushdie in his home in Ireland for some time..... Rushdie is such an arrogant jerk, religious differences aside. Also, he knew what the reaction would be to his stupid book and he got what he wanted ultimately, fame he would not have had otherwise as he is not the intellectual genius he thinks he is Knighted for what, exactly, for saying obscene things about the Brits in his book? Also, I often wondered what happened to his relatives in Pakistan after the Satanic Verses, I would be keeping it very hushed if I was related to such a disgusting creep..... Sad news and it shows the state of affairs in Europe.... I will have my eyes open when I move to France shortly, Insha Allah