NAJD : Please Help Me!

[IslamIsSimple]

Brother, I think you are not addressing me. However I like to add my comment. We can't take literal meaning of Quranic verses and verses from Hadeeth. Since we all are not scholars, we rely heavily on scholars opinion. Of course, it will make sense if we can prove geographically but you will agree the actual interpretation only known by Allah and the Prophet.

Yes I surely wasnt addressing you brother . As stated at the beginning of the post, it was directed to sachin4islam who posted about Sheikh Muhammad Bin AbdulWahab being a devil etc.

About your point, both hadeeths and scholarly opinion all say Iraq. And actually the scholars opinions are partially based on the other narrations of the hadeeth, too. Moreover, Karbala, south of Iraq, where Al Hussain was killed by Shias (and where lots of bloodshed and fitnah hapenned), is certainly east.

But their methods remind me of this verse (Qur'aan 2:7)

It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them].

To ignore hadeeths that say Iraq and choosing the one that says eastern direction, then drawing maps to find what areas qualify as eastern direction, make no sense at all, if we stretched that arrow ignoring language and hadeeths, it could lead to Iran and even further. Furthermore, what "neckstriking" as the hadeeth said, happened near Riyadh? The area was hardly populated.

Its just whims of desires of these groups, because their leaders lost much authority and control over people, and lost lots of money as well. The "Imam Al Reza" shrine in Mash-had, Iran, makes billions every year. The money is not taxable, and they report to no one, not the ministry of finance, nor the central bank. They report directly to Khamen'i, and everything is secret, although they own 75% of the land of the city, and these shrines are a very large part of the Iranian economy.

Sufis similarly gain authority and money from shrines and blind following.

This is why Sufis and Shias never criticize eachother; they are in the same business. Of course they hate sheikh Muhammad Bin Abdulwahab rahimahu Allah, because its against their interests. Some even made it to Forbes! (Check the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th page)

http://www.forbes.com/global/2003/0721/024.html

 

[sachin4islam]

Walaikkum Assalam wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu,

Akhi, Please read the message you took from FB, before you post it. May Allah have mercy on Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (Rahimullah) and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Assalamu Alaikum: Br.

I am never just a copier. I posted it in my full consciousness after going through the parent post on FB.

I was bit confused by that post and needed some clarifications.

My utmost respect for Sheikh Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahab,May Allah (SWT) have mercy on him.

Regards.

 

[sachin4islam]

sachin4islam , the hadeeths specifically mention Iraq, but it seems like you choose to ignore them and interpret as you wish. If you drew a line between Madinah and south of Iraq, where Karbala is (where Al Hussain was killed by Shias), then it would become clear.

But it seems you choose to ignore the hadeeths, and the opinions of scholars, and the fact that it has always been an area of the greatest fitnah in Islamic history, all to speak against a man who called to leave superstitions and go back to pure Islam and authentic Sunnah and to reject graveworship, and blind following of men - traits both Sufis and Shias share.

Im afraid its the following type of people that are against the pure way of the salaf

Top Sufi sheikh claiming hes no longer accountable to Allah (one who really hates the way of the salaf). He also told claimed to phone call the prophet! The Sufi Al Jifri, kissed this mans hand and asked for him to give him an ijaza!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJWGZAoymzA

Sufi followers eating the feces of their sheikh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOgV6HqquWA

Why would Sufi sheikhs be for following the Sunnah when they have followers to actually prostrate and make Sujood to them? (And probably leave them money at shrines they worship)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ONsEUg5IEE

So of course they are against Sheikh and Imam Muhammad Bin Abdulwahab rahimahu Allah. He was against these superstitions and they were losing control of people, and losing money. Taking the authority of these men making the Qur'aan and Sunnah the only final authorities.

Those were not my words.

 

[Salem9022]

Brother, I think you are not addressing me. However I like to add my comment. We can't take literal meaning of Quranic verses and verses from Hadeeth. Since we all are not scholars, we rely heavily on scholars opinion. Of course, it will make sense if we can prove geographically but you will agree the actual interpretation only known by Allah and the Prophet.

Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn), "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared from that direction." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58 in commentary to the hadeeth of Najd]

Ibn Hajr is a Major Scholar of Islam and his explanation of the Horn in the book Fath al-Baaree is the direction of the East.

He Continues saying:

"al-Khattaabee said: 'the najd in the direction of the east, and for the one who is in Madeenah then his Najd would be the desert of Iraaq and it's regions [baadiya al-Iraaq wa Nawaaheehaa] for this is to the east of the People of Madeenah. The basic meaning of Najd is that which is raised/elevated from the earth in contravention to al-Gawr for that is what is lower than it. Tihaamah [the coastal plain along the south-western and southern shores of the Arabian Peninsula] is entirely al-Gawr and Mecca is in Tihaamah.'"

Ibn Hajr continues, "by this [saying of al-Khattaabee] the weakness of the saying of ad-Daawodee is understood that 'Najd is in the direction of Iraaq' [min Naahiya al-Iraaq] for he suggests that Najd is a specific place. This is not the case, rather everything that is elevated with respect to what adjoins it is called Najd and the lower area called Gawr." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58-59]

Imaam Nawawee mentions that one of the greatest trials to appear from the East will be the appearance of the Dajjaal. [Sharh Saheeh Muslim 2/29]

As the a brother mentioned before. Najd is where the Muslims were split and wars and killings occured.

The Shias first appeared in Iraq
The Sufies first appeared in Iraq
The Khawarij first appeared in Iraq
The Mutazilis first apppeared in Iraq.
The Qadariyyah first appeared in Iraq
The Jahmiyyah first appeared in Iraq
and from these their offshoots also appeared in Iraq
The list goes on and on and on..........

I dont know what other evidence you need when we qouted scholars and the Hadiths themselves.

 

[Tomtom]

Narrated `Abdullah bin Dinar:
Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet fixed Qarn as the Miqat (for assuming the Ihram) for the people of Najd, and Al-Juhfa for the people of Sham, and Dhul-Hulaifa for the people of Medina." Ibn `Umar added, "I heard this from the Prophet, and I have been informed that the Prophet said, 'The Miqat for the Yemenites is Yalamlam.' "When Iraq was mentioned, he said, "At that time it was not a Muslim country."
Bukhari
English reference: Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 443
Arabic reference: Book 97, Hadith 7430

According to the above Najd can't be Iraq.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

As the a brother mentioned before. Najd is where the Muslims were split and wars and killings occured.

The Shias first appeared in Iraq
The Sufies first appeared in Iraq
The Khawarij first appeared in Iraq
The Mutazilis first apppeared in Iraq.
The Qadariyyah first appeared in Iraq
The Jahmiyyah first appeared in Iraq
and from these their offshoots also appeared in Iraq
The list goes on and on and on..........

I dont know what other evidence you need when we qouted scholars and the Hadiths themselves.

Brother, I'm prepared to believe what the scholars said but in the end Allah knows best the actual geographical location of "Najd".

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Narrated `Abdullah bin Dinar:
Ibn `Umar said, "The Prophet fixed Qarn as the Miqat (for assuming the Ihram) for the people of Najd, and Al-Juhfa for the people of Sham, and Dhul-Hulaifa for the people of Medina." Ibn `Umar added, "I heard this from the Prophet, and I have been informed that the Prophet said, 'The Miqat for the Yemenites is Yalamlam.' "When Iraq was mentioned, he said, "At that time it was not a Muslim country."
Bukhari
English reference: Vol. 9, Book 92, Hadith 443
Arabic reference: Book 97, Hadith 7430

According to the above Najd can't be Iraq.

Thank you. Good one actually.

Consider below hadith (I quote again):

Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn), "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared from that direction." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58 in commentary to the hadeeth of Najd]


Is there any connection between "When Iraq was mentioned, he said, "At that time it was not a Muslim country." and "...and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers"?

 

[Tomtom]

Thank you. Good one actually.

Consider below hadith (I quote again):

Ibn Hajr al-Asqalaanee said after quoting the words of al-Khattaabee explaining the meaning of Qarn (horn), "and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers at that time and the Messenger of Allaah, sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam, informed us that the trials and tribulations would arise from that direction and it was as he said. And the first of the trials that arose, arose from the direction of the east and they were the reason for the splitting of the Muslim ranks, and this is what Satan loves and delights in. Likewise the innovations appeared from that direction." [Fath al-Baaree 13/58 in commentary to the hadeeth of Najd]


Is there any connection between "When Iraq was mentioned, he said, "At that time it was not a Muslim country." and "...and others have said that the People of the East were disbelievers"?

Well bro I would say absolutely none. East is just a general direction, I think some people say Iraq because the Prophet (pbuh) refused to bless the people of Iraq. Now we know why, they were not yet muslims. But I understand all the fitna started there with regard to shi'a etc.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Well bro I would say absolutely none. East is just a general direction, I think some people say Iraq because the Prophet (pbuh) refused to bless the people of Iraq. Now we know why, they were not yet muslims. But I understand all the fitna started there with regard to shi'a etc.

I agree with you. When the Prophet said "east" it also depend from which direction He said so. Perhaps from His house / Nabawi mosque east was pointing towards southern Iraq.

 

[IslamIsSimple]

Well bro I would say absolutely none. East is just a general direction, I think some people say Iraq because the Prophet (pbuh) refused to bless the people of Iraq. Now we know why, they were not yet muslims. But I understand all the fitna started there with regard to shi'a etc.

Actually, the hadeeth talks about future events. Reading the various narrations of the hadeeth, with different wording, its clear that najd and iraq were alternativly, for a place of fitnah from which "the horn of Satan" appears. Its not two places, but one.

The Prophet supplicated and said, “O Allah bestow your blessings on our Shaam and Yemen.” A person from amongst the people said, “O Prophet of Allah, and Iraq?” He said, “Indeed there (in Iraq) is the Horn of Satan, and the trials and tribulations will come like mounting waves, and indeed harshness is in the East.” From Al Haithami (Al Zawajir 1/207) narrating from Al Tabarani saying its narrators are trustworthy.

So in this hadeeth, the prophet mentions Iraq, the eastern direction, horn of Satan, all together. So its self explanitory. Other hadeeths are similar but without mentioning the eastern direction, so they are all talking about the same place.

Furthermore, Ibn Umar raa, who narrated the hadeeth you mentioned, also narrated the hadeeth specifically mentioning Iraq. And Ibn Umar raa specifically was known for his utmost care of Sunnah (along with others). This further proves that "Najd" is/was used in reference to many different places.

Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6943:

Ibn Fudail reported on the authority of his father that he heard Salim b. Abdullah b. Umar as saying: O people of Iraq, how strange it is that you ask about the minor sins but commit major sins? I heard from my father Abdullah b. Umar, narrating that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying while pointing his hand towards the East: “Verily, the turmoil would come from this side, from where appear the horns of Satan and you (Iraqis) would strike the necks of one another…”

So here, we have two hadeeths, mentioning Iraq AND the eastern direction, and the horn of satan, too. So the hadeeths themselves explain it all really. I think this leaves no doubt at all, as they cant be ignored. The ONLY way out of this is to say the horn of satan will appear from two different places, but that would be an unacceptable stretch.

1- Eastern Direction as the hadeeth says being Iraq, therefore explaining it and ending all speculation.

2- Horn of Satan mentioned in a context that mentions both Iraq AND East. Therefore its self explanitory.

3- Turmoil, fitnah, and killing. (killing of Al Hussain, Shiasm, Sufism, Jahmees and endless number of sects, and continous wars throughout history)

4- Earthquakes. Theres no earthquakes hear Riyadh. In Iraq? Only from 1987 to 1999 they had at least 5 earthquakes.

The only reason that it is "marketed" that its not Iraq, is to say its in reference to Sheikh, Imam, and reformer Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahab Rahimahu Allah. This is why graveworshippers like to market this interpertation, theres no other reason they give it this special interest and have it on almost every website of theirs.

And this is not scholarly at all, because even if we ignored all the hadeeths that specifically mention Iraq, and all the sayings of scholars, and the interpertation of Ibn Umar raa, and accepted that its the exact Najd that they refer to, applying the hadeeth to him would still be absurd.

Simply put, they want to say that being against graveworship is fitnah. Otherwise, of all the hadeeths on future events, they wouldnt have had sudden interest in the interpertation of this one at all.

"It is He who has sent down to you, [O Muhammad], the Book; in it are verses [that are] precise - they are the foundation of the Book - and others unspecific. As for those in whose hearts is deviation [from truth], they will follow that of it which is unspecific, seeking discord and seeking an interpretation [suitable to them]. " (Qur'aan 3:7)