O Christians by Ibn Al Qayyim

[island muslim]

[yt]tWKQioVNtnY[/yt]

 

[Fahad_Agus]

it was touching for me!!!! jazakallah!!

 

[BGfromGB]

The crucifixion.

[yt]tWKQioVNtnY[/yt]

I have just seen this video. All I can say about this video is that it is pure propaganda aimed at reinforcing the lie that YESHUA did not die. Nor was he not the son of God. I regard this as slander and an insult to YESHUA himself.

If this is not slander, then it is incumbent on the Islamic fraternity to disprove beyond all shadow of doubt that the events as related in the scriptures are a lie.

From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion. As a non muslim I believe what the Qur'an literally says and not the deliberate and intentional bias of this misguided auther of this video. He clearly shows disrespect for the christions who passionately believe in the son of God, just as you are passionate sbout prophet mohammed.

As a mark of respect for other religions, why don't we agree to disagree? That way we can focus on our Almighty whom we all passionately desire to serve. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. No exceptions. It is our duty as human beings to love one another and not show enmity because we THINK we all have the perfect religion. God is not religious - he is our creator and HE will judge us according to our deeds and not our religious affiliations. This is even stated in the Holy Qur'an.

 

[IslamIsLight]

I have just seen this video. All I can say about this video is that it is pure propaganda aimed at reinforcing the lie that YESHUA did not die. Nor was he not the son of God. I regard this as slander and an insult to YESHUA himself.

If this is not slander, then it is incumbent on the Islamic fraternity to disprove beyond all shadow of doubt that the events as related in the scriptures are a lie.

From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion. As a non muslim I believe what the Qur'an literally says and not the deliberate and intentional bias of this misguided auther of this video. He clearly shows disrespect for the christions who passionately believe in the son of God, just as you are passionate sbout prophet mohammed.

As a mark of respect for other religions, why don't we agree to disagree? That way we can focus on our Almighty whom we all passionately desire to serve. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. No exceptions. It is our duty as human beings to love one another and not show enmity because we THINK we all have the perfect religion. God is not religious - he is our creator and HE will judge us according to our deeds and not our religious affiliations. This is even stated in the Holy Qur'an.

God is not religious - he is our creator and HE will judge us according to our deeds and not our religious affiliations. This is even stated in the Holy Qur'an.[/QUOTE]

Who said that.In the Quran ,then where .?Don't interpret the Quran in your way pls,
That way we can focus on our Almighty whom we all passionately desire to serve
Who said we are not focused.Yes we are,trust me.Praying 5 times a day making u focus ...and not only that

with all my respect...

 

[palestine]

I have just seen this video. All I can say about this video is that it is pure propaganda aimed at reinforcing the lie that YESHUA did not die. Nor was he not the son of God. I regard this as slander and an insult to YESHUA himself.

If this is not slander, then it is incumbent on the Islamic fraternity to disprove beyond all shadow of doubt that the events as related in the scriptures are a lie.

From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion. As a non muslim I believe what the Qur'an literally says and not the deliberate and intentional bias of this misguided auther of this video. He clearly shows disrespect for the christions who passionately believe in the son of God, just as you are passionate sbout prophet mohammed.

As a mark of respect for other religions, why don't we agree to disagree? That way we can focus on our Almighty whom we all passionately desire to serve. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. No exceptions. It is our duty as human beings to love one another and not show enmity because we THINK we all have the perfect religion. God is not religious - he is our creator and HE will judge us according to our deeds and not our religious affiliations. This is even stated in the Holy Qur'an.

The video is not about disrespecting your religion, it is just showing you the truth about what you worship. We love Jesus, we not only believe but we know he was the Messenger of God. He was given birth to by his Mother Mary, he was born like the human beings are born......think, how could he be God? Do you think Bush is a God....hell no!! because he was born like you were, he is no greater than you. I mean the trinity thing....i don't think any christian can explain that...because it is confusing to the christians themselves. God cannot be killed.......if he is almighty how can he be killed? use your common sense, this is not propaganda.

 

[palestine]

The video is not about disrespecting your religion, it is just showing you the truth about what you worship. We love Jesus, we not only believe but we know he was the Messenger of God. He was given birth to by his Mother Mary, he was born like the human beings are born......think, how could he be God? Do you think Bush is a God....hell no!! because he was born like you were, he is no greater than you. I mean the trinity thing....i don't think any christian can explain that...because it is confusing to the christians themselves. God cannot be killed.......if he is almighty how can he be killed? use your common sense, this is not propaganda.

By the way We love Jesus more than you love him. have you seen the cigaret ads, well they put Jesus's picture their.....that's DISRESPECTFUL, FOOLISH, AND DUMB. LOOK BACK AT YOUR OWN RELIGION AND SEE. NO OFFENSE

 

[island muslim]

I found the poem to be extremly beautiful, so I was sharing it with my brothers and sisters.
Sorry if it offended you BGfromGB.

Isn't the poem quite beautiful brothers and sisters?

 

[Fahad_Agus]

"From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion."

Surah4: Al-Nisa 157: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The messenger of Allah" But they killed him not, Nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjucture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not....

I dont know how you get the idea that the qur'an neither confirms nor denies the crucifixtion. The verse i gave you is so clear that you dont need to read it twice to understand about what muslims think about the crucifixtion.

 

[Fahad_Agus]

I have just seen this video. All I can say about this video is that it is pure propaganda aimed at reinforcing the lie that YESHUA did not die. Nor was he not the son of God. I regard this as slander and an insult to YESHUA himself.

If this is not slander, then it is incumbent on the Islamic fraternity to disprove beyond all shadow of doubt that the events as related in the scriptures are a lie.

From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion. As a non muslim I believe what the Qur'an literally says and not the deliberate and intentional bias of this misguided auther of this video. He clearly shows disrespect for the christions who passionately believe in the son of God, just as you are passionate sbout prophet mohammed.

As a mark of respect for other religions, why don't we agree to disagree? That way we can focus on our Almighty whom we all passionately desire to serve. Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc. No exceptions. It is our duty as human beings to love one another and not show enmity because we THINK we all have the perfect religion. God is not religious - he is our creator and HE will judge us according to our deeds and not our religious affiliations. This is even stated in the Holy Qur'an.

"From what I have read in thre Qur'an,it neither confirms nor denies the crucifixion."

Surah4: Al-Nisa 157: That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The messenger of Allah" But they killed him not, Nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjucture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not....

I dont know how you get the idea that the qur'an neither confirms nor denies the crucifixtion. The verse i gave you is so clear that you dont need to read it twice to understand about what muslims think about the crucifixtion.

 

[BGfromGB]

^The qur'an.

Often people do not see what is right in front of their eyes. BG refuses to read the Quran with an open mind and a clear heart. He wants to dismiss it if he can. He wants it to confirm what he believes rather than guide him to what he's missing.

With the greatest respect to you sir, I did not refuse to read the Qur'an with an open mind and a clear heart.

Indeed, I studied that portion of the sura very closely. This is how I came to my conclusion.

When i read sura 4:157, I noticed that it was referring to the Jews. I noticed this because in the preceeding and following verses, it was referring to the Jews. I then studied it in the CONTEXT it was written.

Here is what I mean.

Sura 4:153. "The people of the scripture (Jews) ask you cause a book to descend upon them from heaven..." Here it refers to the Jews. Correct?

The rest of this verse refers specifically to the Jews who worshipped a calf.

Sura 4:154. " And for their covenant, we raised over them the mount and we said"Enter the gate prostrating with humility.....transgress not (by doing worldly works). And we took from them a firm covenant".

Again, this verse specifically refers to the Jews and the Sabbath. (which brings me onto another topic about the importance of the Sabbath which is even mentioned in the Koran. But I will leave this issue in abeyance until later)

Sura 4:155. " Because of their breaking the covenant ...." Again, this verse refers specifically to the Jews. (Personal note. I have a problem with this ayat as regards the Jews breaking the covenant. Remember it is GOD who made a covenant with the Jews - not the other way round. So how can they break a covenant which they never made?. But this is another entirely different topic)

Sura 4:156. "And because of their (Jews) disbelief and uttering against Maryam a grave false charge". This refers specifically to the Jews.

Sura 4:157. "And because of their saying(in boast), 'We (the Jews?)killed Messiah Isa, the son of Maryam, the messenger od Allah' - but they (the Jews?) killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them (the JEWS?). (the resemblence of Isa was put over another man (Who? no specifics here) and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They (the Jews?)have no certain knowledge, they (The Jews?) follow nothing but conjecture. For surely they (the Jews?) killed him not.

See my comments ie(the Jews?). Am I correct here?

Sura 4:159. And there is none of the people of the scripture (Jews and christians) but must believe in him. Again reference to Jews and now suddenly christians. But christianity did not exist at that time. Correct?

Sura 4:160"For the wrongdoing of the Jews, we made unlawful for them certain good foods.... Refers specifically to the Jews.

That my friend is how I interpreted the sura and ayats. Am i right or am I totally incorrect?

I am being perfectly honest with you. What have I dismissed? What I have read is what I have taken it for what it means. Literally and contextually.As you can see, I have gone to great lengths to explain my view. I have not hidden anything. Perhaps if I am wrong you could possibly guide me. thank you

 

[Mrmuslim]

Hello BGfromGB

Can you please tell us which Quran Translation you have? there are different translations... and if you need one we can send you one, IF the one you have is not good translation.

Thanks,

 

[BGfromGB]

Thanks for the info.

Incorrect. You left out in your translation two key words, "Before his death!" (Qabla Mawtih) This verse tells us that when Jesus peace be upon him returns to correct once and for all the wrong beliefs about him, all Jews and Christians will believe in him and follow the straight path of Islam. Jesus will rule for a while and then die a normal death.

In Chapter 5, God tells us how He will ask Jesus on the Day of Judgment, "Did you tell people to take you and your mother as gods beneath God?" Jesus will say "May You be sanctified! I could not say something I was not authorized to say." (5:116) Jesus then says "I only told them what You commanded me to tell them: to worship God, my Lord and their Lord." (5:117) In the same verse, Jesus says to God that he was watching people as long as he was among them and when God called him up to Him, God watched them.

It is out of the boundless grace of God that He will send Jesus back to earth to give the Christians and Jews a final chance to correct their blasphemies. But who can guarantee to be alive when that happens to take advantage of it?

. Thank you ayman for your information.

Re: Sura 4: 159 where you said I missed out 2 key words. That verse was quoted verbatim from the Qur'an I have. I have just checked it out again and nowhere does it mention in that verse, the key words "before his death"

 

[BGfromGB]

The Qur'an

Then you're getting your information about Islam from a mediocre, if not fraudulent translation. Search the archives of this forum for reliable translations, such as Yusuf Ali's.

The Qur'an I have was kindly donated to me by a muslim with whom I had an informative discussion at Speakers Corner. He came across as a genuine and pleasant and friendly person, so I have no reason to believe that he gave me a fraudulent book. Why would he? And from a non muslim perspective how am I to know whether or not, if a Qur'an is authentic or fraudulent.

 

[BGfromGB]

God the Quir'an and the Arabic language.

Quran is always authentic. Translations of it are not necessarily so. Only the original Arabic text can be called Quran. It's very easy to tell if a translation is not authentic: You compare the translation with the original Arabic text. A translation that mistranslates words or phrases or removes words from translation are negligent at best and deliberately misleading at worst.

How am I a non muslim and billions of other non muslims supposed to know that. Also, are we all expected to learn Arabic in order to fully understand the Qur'an?

 

[BGfromGB]

Before his death.

Incorrect. You left out in your translation two key words, "Before his death!" (Qabla Mawtih) This verse tells us that when Jesus peace be upon him returns to correct once and for all the wrong beliefs about him, all Jews and Christians will believe in him and follow the straight path of Islam. Jesus will rule for a while and then die a normal death.

In Chapter 5, God tells us how He will ask Jesus on the Day of Judgment, "Did you tell people to take you and your mother as gods beneath God?" Jesus will say "May You be sanctified! I could not say something I was not authorized to say." (5:116) Jesus then says "I only told them what You commanded me to tell them: to worship God, my Lord and their Lord." (5:117) In the same verse, Jesus says to God that he was watching people as long as he was among them and when God called him up to Him, God watched them.

It is out of the boundless grace of God that He will send Jesus back to earth to give the Christians and Jews a final chance to correct their blasphemies. But who can guarantee to be alive when that happens to take advantage of it?

.Hi there ayman. Just reading your post and trying to reconcile a few problems I have.

You mentioned those missing words, "before his death". How does that fit in the verse /ayat (4:159). Could you you show me exactly how that verse should read. Thanks.