original sin?

nyerekareem

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
:salam2:

this morning i was thinking about the concept of " original sin " and i just find it hard to believe in this concept. even if i wasn't a muslim, i would still have a hard time believing in it. how can one believe that as soon as a baby is born, it is born a sinner and that if that baby doesn't believe that someone died for them; they'll be condemned to hell? adam and eve (pbut) were forgiven by God in the bible and were forgiven in the quran. adam and eve were forgiven without somebody having to die for their sins.

i wish i can recall the book or chapter in the bible, where the jews ask jesus (pbuh) about the origin of the blind man's affliction. they basically wanted to know if the man had been born blind because of his parents sins. jesus (pbuh) in turn told them that his parents sins were not responsible for that man being born blind. he basically said that it was part of that man's qadr to be healed. but most importantly it revealed that we can't inherit sins. that we are only accountable for our own sins. why should all of humanity be sentenced to hell because of what 2 people did millenia ago? there is no original sin! if we sin it is a choice that we make, the negative influences around us. if we were born with this sin, how could we ever expect to enter jannah? since we are naturally sinners we would be sinning too much to ever get in. just like you can never make a dog stop sniffing every tree it passes, because it's his nature. but if you are born a sinner, you can only sin. if you believe that you are born a sinner, why repent? you're a sinner without a choice. in conclusion i believe that the original sin concept is a way to excuse oneself for having comitted a sin and also a way for religious leaders to create fear in the believers and to place their trust and allegiance to these leaders.
 
virtualeye

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
AssalaamuAlaikum,

Yes, it makes sense that these are just human made assumptions about children to be born sinners.

Wasslaam,
VE
 
justoneofmillion

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
"ORIGINAL" SIN MANIFACTURED IN TAIWAN A LOT OF PEOPLE MADE MONEY WITH IT BUT NOW THE HAQQ HAS COME LET`S JUST TEAR DOWN CAPITLISM!:) :) :OH SORRY I FORGOT THE HOLY GHOST:confused:
 
American Muslim

American Muslim

Just Another Slave
no original sin

I agree with you brother. But if you are going to bring up Christian beliefs, you should know something. The earlier scriptures are corrupted. We don't know where, but knowing that they are flawed should be enough to keep you from quoting them. Who goes into combat with a weapon that is cracked?

The christian church was a secular power during Europe's Dark Ages (before and after as well! ) . This comcept of original sin goes hand in hand with the belief that salvation is available only through the church. These ideas are just ways to control the populace in a cultural and political way.

They had a system called the interdict. This is where a monarch would disobey the wishes of their holy men. The pope would place the entire nation ( ex. ALL of England ) under the interdict. No marriages, no burials, no baptisms, in short no religous rituals at all were allowed there for anyone until the monarch fell into line.

Don't worry about what the Christians do. For them their religion...

wa salam
 
Wulf

Wulf

Junior Member
Asalaam Alaykum

Originaly, original sin had a different meaning.
The idea that it has anything to do with procreation and babies was adopted by the churgh as a method of forcing Absolution and baptism on the Vulgar masses.

Original Sin actually relates to one of the first commandments that God gave to Adam and Eve in the garden, ( and it had nothing to do with the words "Go ye forth and Multiply").

The Commandment was, " Thou mayest eat of any of the fruit within the garden, except the fruit of the tree of Life"

The original sin was the sin of Disobedience. They disobeyed the command of Allah swt, when Eve took of the tree of life and shared it with Adam, even though he also knew that he was disobeying the Command of God. They had abused God's trust in them.

"And they heard the voice of God and they hid themselves from him".
Some Bibles translate this to "They hid their nakedness from him, hiding their shame"
Considering that they were created naked, this state of undress would hardly be shameful to them. So I would suggest that Yes they were shamed and hiding. The fact that they were naked was just a normal state of affairs.

The lesson being that if one was to disobey and Deny Allah (SWT), and His Messenger, may the Blessings of Allah swt be upon him, they too will be cast out of Paradise

W'aslaam
Ibrahim
 
justoneofmillion

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
they both ate bro

Wulf said:
Asalaam Alaykum

Originaly, original sin had a different meaning.
The idea that it has anything to do with procreation and babies was adopted by the churgh as a method of forcing Absolution and baptism on the Vulgar masses.

Original Sin actually relates to one of the first commandments that God gave to Adam and Eve in the garden, ( and it had nothing to do with the words "Go ye forth and Multiply").

The Commandment was, " Thou mayest eat of any of the fruit within the garden, except the fruit of the tree of Life"

The original sin was the sin of Disobedience. They disobeyed the command of Allah swt, when Eve took of the tree of life and shared it with Adam, even though he also knew that he was disobeying the Command of God. They had abused God's trust in them.

"And they heard the voice of God and they hid themselves from him".
Some Bibles translate this to "They hid their nakedness from him, hiding their shame"
Considering that they were created naked, this state of undress would hardly be shameful to them. So I would suggest that Yes they were shamed and hiding. The fact that they were naked was just a normal state of affairs.

The lesson being that if one was to disobey and Deny Allah (SWT), and His Messenger, may the Blessings of Allah swt be upon him, they too will be cast out of Paradise

W'aslaam
Ibrahim
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the quran actually says that it was not eve that tempted adam instead they both ate from the tree which is different then the bible and has considerably saved muslim woman from being demonised or burnt as wiches and from being seen as unclean which led to the celibate of the priests and monks for example in christianity! it`s seems to be just a little detail but that little detail has produced centuries of horrible crimes against women in christianity more than in any other religion.:SMILY47:
 
B

bayareabilal

makakilo
Both Bible and Glorious Qur'an

No Original Sin: “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father…”(Ezekiel 18:20). Muslims believe that sin can not be transferred or inherited from person to person.

I found this from the work of Abdul Hye, Ph.D. He recently came to my masjid and did a wonderful power point presentation about Allah's universe. He works for NASA and his information is below!!!

Madina Masjid, Inc.
P.O. Box 890071
Houston, TX 77289

Abdul Hye, Ph.D
281-488-3191
a6h*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!*!
www.islamicbooks4u.com
:salah:
 
M

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
Assalamu-alaikum

:salam2:
Brothers and sisters people really use this concept of Original Sin as if it was the idea since the very begining of the Bible and that if it had been there since Adam (AS) but, let us see what the Old Testament has to offer us in this regard. And i am quoting it here since this idea was nothin but a blasphemy created by those who want others to belive that Jesus died for that SIN and that he ( Jesus AS ) offered himself to rescue US ALL from that sin which we never commited.
Please, I request all of you brothers and sisters to read this carefully.
Ezekiel 18 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)​

1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

6And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,

7And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;

8He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,

9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.

10If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,

11And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,

12Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,

13Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

14Now, lo, if he beget a son, that seeth all his father's sins which he hath done, and considereth, and doeth not such like,

15That hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, hath not defiled his neighbour's wife,

16Neither hath oppressed any, hath not withholden the pledge, neither hath spoiled by violence, but hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment,

17That hath taken off his hand from the poor, that hath not received usury nor increase, hath executed my judgments, hath walked in my statutes; he shall not die for the iniquity of his father, he shall surely live.

18As for his father, because he cruelly oppressed, spoiled his brother by violence, and did that which is not good among his people, lo, even he shall die in his iniquity.

19Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

23Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

25Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?

26When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.

28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

29Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the LORD is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?

30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
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Ma'assalaam
 
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