Posts not directly related to ijithad/taqleed thread topic.

Discussion in 'TurnToIslam Lounge !' started by Mazhara, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    you already added so much that its enough and now its time to remove those added unwanted stuff... well, that is your vain assumption... still my question is unanswered!

    in previews posts you said
    why changing your words? earlier posts says something than later something else and you end up being an Hypocrite... what you trying to prove, how well you can deceive? Give it a rest pal, you are out of your league....
  2. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Yes I did say that - the sword is Hanafi. That is the exact wording of the Hadith.

    Do you have a problem with the wording of the Hadith? Or do you have a proper explanation for the word 'Hanafi' in the Hadith? If you do, speak up. Everybody is reading you.

    A simple commentary on the Hadith will do fine. Or have you already furnished us with an explanation? If so, please direct us to it.

    (I know this question is very hard for you, because you've googled it again and again and you just can't find it, can you?)
  3. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Hammy is having some problems in understanding the question.

    Let's put it this way to Hammy:

    A non-Muslim man comes to you and asked this question about the explanation of what it means about the sword being Hanafi. What would you say?
  4. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    why are you getting so frustrated??? i already answered that than why are you digging same grave again??? give up man stop crying... ur belief is collapsed buddy... accept it! how will a non-muslim know about that when a muslim cannot answer why Allah (swt) mentioned Ibrahim (as) as Hanif and Shia 3-4 times'??? just like jews and christians you trying to convince others that hanafis are rightly guided... i know everyone is reading so i am not here to be a hero like you...
  5. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    The only answer I got was this:
    I answered:
    Are you seriously telling us that "The sword of the Prophet was Nu`man bin Thabit"? (You're beginning to sound like a hardcore Hanafi now)

    Even I don't say that. Nobody here has said that. Nobody has ever said that. Until you came along...

    Can you please explain to us how you arrived at that conclusion, that "The sword of the Prophet was Nu`man bin Thabit"?
  6. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Hammy I seriously believe you have comprehension issues.

    The question is very simple: What does the word 'Hanafi' mean in this hadeeth.

    Also, what do you say about the hadeeth where the Prophet :saw2: mentioned:

    فعليكم بسنتي وسنة الخلفاء الراشدين المهديين
    "Upon you is my sunnah and the sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs"

    (Reported by al-Tirmidhi)

    According to the hadeeth, we can follow sunnah of Abu Bakr, `Umar, `Uthmaan and `Ali?
  7. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Also Hammy, can you please tell me: According to you, which scholar got it right with regards to the issue of Taqleed? You are yet to quote even ONE scholar.
  8. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    The poor chap thinks we're using this Hadith to prove that the Hanafi Madhhab is right!

    Not only did we ever say that, but he's the one who ended up implying that 'the sword of the Prophet was Imam Abu Hanifah'!

    Man doesn't even know what Hanafi in the Hadith means, yet is prepared to debate us about it. A simple 'I don't know' would have been good, but he chose the path of debate, acting as if he knows what it means, when in fact he doesn't know, and the calamity is that he doesn't even know that he doesn't know (compound ignorance).

    Best thing is that the answer will never be found on any google search as far as I'm aware, and this will be the first English forum place where the term Hanafi in that Hadith will be explained.
  9. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    I don't like all this back and forth, cos honestly I see much of it as pointless, but I am shocked at how hard it is to say, "I don't know" for some. This is the problem of Do-It-Yourself scholarship (may Allah save me from that), although the greatest scholars knew when to admit ignorance.

    Also, I'm interested in what it actually means too.
  10. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    well, that was the only answer, real name is different so hanafiyat collapses...

    did i? comprehension as well as understanding issue...
  11. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    well that was you who said that, not me who and than you changed your words...
    Aah! now you got back up... what! you call it debate... you lost it and you never answer my question... its over pal, wake up!
  12. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    Hammy, look, I'm giving you some ideas here. Because this discussion is not getting absolutely anywhere.

    A) You admit, "I don't know what it means when the hadeeth says the sword is 'Hanafi" - or you give one straight clear answer, no adding on, and how you came to that conclusion, no emotion, no extra banter, and we may see even this thread progress.

    B) You quit adding non-sense into this thread that has nothing to do with the topics at hand and are only personal digs. Either add substance please, or stay silent. I may be moderating this in the meantime if I see there is no substance to your post at all.


    We're not here to humiliate one another, but to learn together and warn others away from those who should know when to admit ignorance. This is an important quality for all of us, and dangerous to allow to go unchecked. This is why it becomes hard to moderate, in view of the objective - but at this point I'm allowing it in hopes that maybe at some point, someone will gain.
  13. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    why shall i admit? by stating the term Hanafi he was directing it towards Hanafiyat and than he changed his statement and when asked real name of Abu Hanfia (rh) is different, that means hanafiyat collapsed... as to the sword than Ibrahim (as) was also termed as Hanifa and what about Shia'a?? i think he liked to be crushed by a Wahhabi....

    you guys are unbelievable... simply asking questions as if you are the ruler of this world and everything should work according to you, you'll not answer our questions but we should answer your questions and even after answering it you find it crooked and when locked up with your own questions start digging empty graves with frustration.... and when back up come some guys start coming from their respective holes like mouse and act like a lion... Alhamdulillah, one man show game here...
  14. samiha
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    I see that you're frustrated Hammy, but here's the thing. Unless we go one question at a time, nobody will get anything. Understood?

    Secondly, your definition doesnt make sense, that's why this grave is needing to be re-dug as you are saying. I'm not asking nor is HH, why HE changed his statement, but we are asking you to 'investigate' - as you say you can do, and give tafseer of this Hadeeth.

    It is a hadeeth. So investigate please, and tell us the tafseer of it. And if you don't know, please, just say, "I don't know" - not some odd explanation that the hadeeth was directed towards the hanafiyat (??) that collapsed, that Ibrahim 'alayhi salaam was also termed as 'Haneef' (not hanifa) - and then some other extra information. This is not coherent and nobody will say after reading it, "Oh I have understood what it means".

    I've honestly got a headache from this. If you gave a straight answer it would be so much easier. But the straight answer is that you don't really know.

    - You have no clear explanation of that hadeeth. You have no proof of how you 'investigated' it, though in that thread and this you claim you can do 'tehqeek' and investigate hadeeth and Qur'aan and find the truth of a matter. And you have nothing and nobody to support your claims.

    Is it too hard to be humble Hammy? Really? Just say you don't know. Even the A'immah of Islam didn't have that problem.
  15. thariq2005
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    thariq2005 Praise be to Allah!

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    Sister, it is 'Tehkeek'. Please get it right, as Hammy has comprehension issues and will make it difficult to understand what 'Tehqeek' is.

    Hammy: You ask us to leave 1400 years of scholarship and follow you, yet you cannot answer a simple question such as the above.

    Don't you find it strange Hammy that you ask us to abandon 1400 years of scholarship and follow a person like you who makes serious blunders. Do you still remember when you quoted a fabricated hadeeth and you were defending it like there was no tomorrow? A person this unreliable trying to be challenge all the scholars of this ummah- yeah right, you must be joking.

    P.S Hammy can I ask you, do you actually understand english properly? This is a serious question by the way.
  16. MuslimShadow
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    MuslimShadow Junior Member

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    Assalamu alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuhu

    Why this clash of egos??

    Despite all these differences, you can be on good terms with each other.......but no......you all have to bite each other's head off.

    Come on....please.We can have a healthy discussion.:)
  17. Seeking Allah's Mercy
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    Seeking Allah's Mercy Qul HuwaAllahu Ahud!

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    Wasalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Baraakaatuh,

    I wouldn't say the discussion is unhealthy but yeah there is a lot of harshness in the words. I suppose it's inevitable when you are debating just to argue.

    But tbh, I'm kind of happy. The more they debate, I more we get to read and learn (minus the harshness, I wouldn't want to learn anymore of that!). Talk about being mean.

    Let's see what becomes of this thread. The Brother is showing no signs talking sense for a while.
  18. Harris Hammam
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    Harris Hammam Junior Member

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    Sword being Hanafi means either:

    a) attributed to a person called Ahnaf bin Qays, a Muslim who lived in the prophetic era but never had the chance to meet the Prophet; it is said that he was the first to designed a sword in the manner he did, and it was this design that Prophet's sword was based on

    b) an affiliation to Banu Hanifah, a tribe, reported to be famous for their sword-making expertise, or that somebody in that tribe made distinctive swords

    Hammy, any comments?
  19. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    why don't you stand on your own? why you need help from others always? common.. be a man...!!!

    so why you read the Kalima of Prophet (saww)? read the kalima of your scholars than? and when will you follow Allah's Messenger (saww)?? after your death? i apologized for my mistake but you guys are really stubborn to admit your mistakes and feel sorry, just another act of Hypocrites! not your fault!

    that's right! i've not done PhD in English like you.... pal! this strategy doesn't suits you... even yours (mods) "Messiah" harris got caught up and failed again and again... so please... will you come up with your own stuff... well not your fault b'cuz you are a blind follower... keep it up!
  20. Hammy
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    Hammy Banned

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    Oh Yeah! i never asked about that Hadith... b'cuz your "Messiah" was locked up in his question he came up with a new strategy of asking the meaning of "Hanif" and other blind mod supported him and when i asked about Ibrahim (as) and the Shi'a's, look what your "Messiah" is coming up with.... without your (mods) support he is nothing and this is the fact and if you are really thinking that have a problem than why don't you remove the Ban from Aziboy, Abu Musab and Thauban... if you have the guts and glory! you guys shuold admit that you do not have the guts to accept challenge nor compete single handedly... just b'cuz you are mods, you are saved... and that's the "FACT"!

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