prophet ( Peace be Upon Him )

[carpy321]

Another question.
Have any readers found "problems/contradictions" in the Quran? And, how have you dealt with them?

Thank You

salam brother! im sorry i no this is very late in the converation but i saw this and thaught i MUST say!!
The quran is perfect! it is the words of allah himself that he sent down upon earth and gave to muhammed (pbuh) there is nothing more perfect then the writtings of the quran!
The quran is never wrong! the people translating it are the ones that are often wrong! for example 9-11

 

[DadManG]

I read somewhere that Samiri was a Samaritan. Do you know if that is true?

Thanks

 

[nobbyv]

I read somewhere that Samiri was a Samaritan. Do you know if that is true?

Thanks

Assalamualaikum...Peace be upon you...

Dear DadManG,

THe contradiction about As-Samiri and Samaritans have been dealt with earlier itself...you can find an in-depth answer in the link given below.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/samaritan.html

Until the middle of the 20th century it was commonly believed that the Samaritans originated from a mixed race people living in Samaria at the time of the Assyrian conquest (722 BCE). In a similar vein, the Christian missionaries and apologists have claimed that the Samaritans as a distinct people only emerged after the exile of the northern kingdom of Israel and the resettlement of the area under king Sargon II after 722 BCE. Based solely on the evidence of II Kings 17, the missionaries and apologists claim the Qur'anic mention of the name al-Samiri sometimes translated as "the Samaritan" (Qur'an 20:85, 87 and 95) during the time of Moses is a historical contradiction.

Contrary to the claims of the missionaries and apologists, specialists in Samaritan studies have noted that the use of the term shomronim in II Kings 17 tells us nothing about the origins of the Samaritans. Shomronim means the "inhabitants of Samaria" and it has nothing to do with shamerin, "keepers" or "observers" of the Torah, which the Samaritans use for themselves. Furthermore, the narrative in II Kings 17:18-24 claiming that the population of Israel in its totality was deported by Assyrians and exchanged to an alien population is unsupported by archaeology. This historical discrepancy severely undermines the veracity of the biblical claim concerning Samaritan origins. Consequently, modern scholars have conclusively rejected II Kings 17 as a source for the origins of Samaritans.

In recent years, research based on a more careful study of the Chronicles of the Samaritans has led to a re-evaluation of their origins. Specifically, with the publication of the Samaritan Chronicle II (Sefer ha-Yamim), the fullest Samaritan version of their own history became available. A historical analysis of this chronicle reveals that the Samaritans are the direct descendants of the Joseph tribes, Ephraim and Manasseh, and until the 17th century C.E. they possessed a high priesthood descending directly from Aaron through Eleazar and Phinehas. The common ancestry of both the Jews and Samaritans was also established by recent genetic studies, going back to cohen or the Jewish priestly family. This study also validated both local and foreign origins of the Samaritans.

The missionaries and apologists, ignorant of the Samaritans' own version of their history as well as recent scholarly investigation and critical analysis, content themselves with repeating the claim made by William St. Clair Tisdall. Unfortunately, Tisdall was also not fully cognizant with the Chronicles of the Samaritans or the extant archaeological evidence; consequently, the missionaries and apologists make claims contrary to recent historical investigation. As we observed in this study, the Qur'anic mention of the name al-Samiri sometimes translated as "the Samaritan" (Qur'an 20:85, 87 and 95) is consistent with modern investigations into the origins of the Samaritan sect.

And Allah knows best!

 

[DadManG]

Thank you for this information, and your efforts in obtaining it.
Would you agree that either your information is correct or mine, we both cannot be correct?

It appears that the bible and the quran are not in agreement.

Do you believe that at some point in time they were in perfect agreement?

 

[nobbyv]

Thank you for this information, and your efforts in obtaining it.
Would you agree that either your information is correct or mine, we both cannot be correct?

It appears that the bible and the quran are not in agreement.

Do you believe that at some point in time they were in perfect agreement?

Assalamualaikum...Peace be upon you...

Dear DadManG,

First of all, you should understand a Muslim’s position in this regard. As a Muslim, we are commanded to believe in the previous books of the prophets. For e.g. the Torah, the Zaboor and the Injel. But we are not required to believe in the present Jewish books, or the Bible or the Vedas of the Hindus because these are written by men. The evidence of this being the various errors / contradictions / versions. Unlike the Quran which has no errors, no contradictions and no versions. (I’m not referring to the versions of the English translation but to the Arabic verses…they never change). Ofcourse, when verses of the Quran are taken out of context, or when someone who is unfamiliar with the Arabic prose tries to comprehend the translations…there is a possibility that the person might find certain contradictions. These contradictions can easily be cleared once the person studies a little in depth.

A good example to justify would be your question about Samiri…if you read the article; it states that historical study would prove the existence of Samaritans from the descendents of Joseph (peace be upon him) which thereby refutes the biblical claim.

Often you will notice Muslims quoting verses from the bible. When I was a Christian, I used to wonder why the Muslims accept certain verses and reject certain verses from the bible. The answer was pretty obvious!! When the bible says that GOD is a just GOD, we accept that. But when the bible says that GOD’s punishment passes on to several generations, we reject blindly!! WHY?? Because it simply contradicts the very nature of GOD being just. Similarly, when the bible says that GOD’s knowledge encompasses every single creation, we accept this statement. But when the bible says that GOD regretted creating man, we reject this claim blindly!! WHY?? Because regret only occurs when an unexpected event occurs… This contradicts the former statement.

And Allah knows best!!

 

[Bawar]

Do you believe that at some point in time they were in perfect agreement?

Dear DadManG, I honestly don't know what conclusion you want to reach.
My answer to your question above is "YES" they were in perfect agreement about the basic message.

The basic message of all books sent by God through different prophets was the same.

Some have changed the real message so God refreshed the message by sending new prophets until the last prophet, Muhammad peace be upon him perfected that message.

The message is: There is no god except Allah

 

[Bluegazer]

Hello DadManG,


You wrote the following in post #24:

It appears that the bible and the quran are not in agreement.

That is correct.


Let's take the story of the Children of Israel worshiping the calf. In the Bible, you'll find that Aaron [peace be upon him ] is presented as the one who called for the worship of the calf, while in the Qur'an, you'll find that Aaron [peace be upon him] warned his people against worshiping the calf, but they did not listen to him.


To read the relevant Biblical and Qur'anic verses [among other issues] that show this, please read my post #94 -on the thread "ISRAEL is the biggest terrorist organization in the world"- by clicking on the following link:

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62926&postcount=94


You also posted the following in post #24:

Do you believe that at some point in time they were in perfect agreement?

Two of the Six Pillars of Faith -that every Muslim has to believe in- are that God Almighty has sent several prophets and has given some of them Holy Scriptures.


Some of these prophets and some of these Scriptures are named, and it is absolutely necessary that every Muslim believes that these Scriptures -in their original form- contained the Word of God Almighty. So, to answer your question, we do believe that at some point in time the Holy Scriptures that were revealed to Moses, David and Jesus -among others- [peace be upon them all] did not contradict the Qur'an.


Please read the following verses of the Qur'an:

Verily, We did send down the Taurât (Torah) [to Mûsâ (Moses)], therein was guidance and light, by which the Prophets, who submitted themselves to Allâh’s Will, judged for the Jews. And the rabbis and the priests [too judged for the Jews by the Taurât (Torah) after those Prophets], for to them was entrusted the protection of Allâh’s Book, and they were witnesses thereto.

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:44]

And in their footsteps, We sent ‘Îsâ (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), confirming the Taurât (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurât (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

[Translation of the meanings of the Qur'an 5:46]


Best regards,

Bluegazer

 

[DadManG]

Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the thought and work involved in them.
Thank you also for allowing me to ask my questions here.

It is convenient for Islam that there are no original manuscripts of the Christian scriptures available.
On the other hand, there is a very great wealth of copies of the Christians scripture, (+-6,000) that are in existence. (Due to the great persecution of the early Christian church.) And by comparing them, it would be possible to have a 99.5% original. Is this valid for you? Or since there are no originals, none are valid?

Peace

 

[DadManG]

You mentioned "When I was a Christian", how did you work thru all the evidence for the death and resurrection of Jesus CHrist, to come to the place that it actually was someone else (Judas?) that died?
I'm sure that you are aware that there were hundreds of eye-witnesses to this fact. How have to dealt with this?

Thanks

 

[Min-Fadhli-Rabii]

You mentioned "When I was a Christian", how did you work thru all the evidence for the death and resurrection of Jesus CHrist, to come to the place that it actually was someone else (Judas?) that died?
I'm sure that you are aware that there were hundreds of eye-witnesses to this fact. How have to dealt with this?

Thanks

Dear friend,
I think what you need is a person who is specialised in comparative religion. So I would advice you to watch videos os ''Ahmad deedat''' You will see him debating with Jimmy Swagert,Pastor Stanlely and many other church leaders. just type in ''Ahmad Deedat'' on YouTube. If u have not yet done or someone not yet recommended for you.

 

[dianek]

I am sorry brothers and sisters but I cannot see wasting any more time explaining Islam to someone who is hellbent determined to criticize and mock it without ONCE taking the time to truly educate himself. Sorry again....

 

[Mairo]

It is convenient for Islam that there are no original manuscripts of the Christian scriptures available.
On the other hand, there is a very great wealth of copies of the Christians scripture, (+-6,000) that are in existence. (Due to the great persecution of the early Christian church.) And by comparing them, it would be possible to have a 99.5% original. Is this valid for you? Or since there are no originals, none are valid?

Peace

DadManG,
Although I still don't understand your agenda or intentions in posting on this site, I think your question is valid. Accurate manuscripts are definitely important, but not everything when it comes to implementation of the correct practice of religion. In my opinion, what really matters most, is correct understanding of the message found throughout the scriptures. God grants wisdom and guidance to whomever he chooses, and leaves in error whomever he chooses.

With that being said - for myself, I absolutely trust in the veracity of the Arabic Quran, I do not have the same trust for any other book in existance.

 

[DadManG]

What do you think we should do with a verse from the bible like the following:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
Tit 2:11-15
Would you say that nothing from the bible should be listened to?

Peace

 

[DadManG]

No agenda, just want to dialogue.
Mario, thanks for the response.
you said "With that being said - for myself, I absolutely trust in the veracity of the Arabic Quran, I do not have the same trust for any other book in existance."

Our trust is only as good as the object in which we trust.
For me, the evidence for Christianity outways that for any other religion. I appreciate listening to you all about Islam. I am trying to understand it a little bit better.
All three of my children spent time living in the middle east. (Egypt and Jordan).

Thanks again

 

[saira1984]

What do you think we should do with a verse from the bible like the following:

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.
Tit 2:11-15
Would you say that nothing from the bible should be listened to?

Peace

Salam Brother,

I would just like to say that in previous posts people have said that there are certain quotes and verses from the bible that muslims agree with so with what you said

'Would you say that nothing from the bible should be listened to?'

This has already been answered!

Sorry if I haven't answered your question but I just wanted to point that out.

 

[dianek]

No agenda, just want to dialogue.
Mario, thanks for the response.
you said "With that being said - for myself, I absolutely trust in the veracity of the Arabic Quran, I do not have the same trust for any other book in existance."

Our trust is only as good as the object in which we trust.
For me, the evidence for Christianity outways that for any other religion. I appreciate listening to you all about Islam. I am trying to understand it a little bit better.
All three of my children spent time living in the middle east. (Egypt and Jordan).

Thanks again

Could this mean that possibly your children are interested in the faith, contemplating conversion? Interesting.....

 

[Optimist]

Dear DadManG ... thank you for staying polite ... I appreciate how you feel toward the Bible. There is certainly some truth in the Bible, but it is not THE TRUTH.

The concept of Trinity has been problematic for the church for two thousands years and will remain so simply because it is not true. It is illogical and self contradictory. How can a man be God ? ... and if a man can be God then why not another man or even animal or stone ? How can God have a son ... why not a daughter or a wife then ? it is blasphemy to ascribe such things to God.

Just listen to the Qura'anic logic:

"And they say: "The Most Gracious (Allâh) has begotten a son". Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing. Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,That they ascribe a son to the Most Gracious (Allâh). But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Gracious (Allâh) that He should beget a son. There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Gracious (Allâh) as a slave."

19:88-93​

See how pure & simple it is ?

and listen to this one:

"The Messiah ('Isâ (Jesus)) son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother (Maryam (Mary)) was a Siddiqah (i.e. she believed in the words of Allâh and His Books (see Verse 66:12)) They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allâh does not eat). Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth)."

5:75​

See ... they BOTH used to eat food! can I ask you what happened to this food ? Just imagine God in this position and think how big is the blasphemy and the insult ...

I pray that we all are guided to the straight path. Amin.

 

[Munawar]

No agenda, just want to dialogue.
Mario, thanks for the response.
you said "With that being said - for myself, I absolutely trust in the veracity of the Arabic Quran, I do not have the same trust for any other book in existance."

Our trust is only as good as the object in which we trust.
For me, the evidence for Christianity outways that for any other religion. I appreciate listening to you all about Islam. I am trying to understand it a little bit better.
All three of my children spent time living in the middle east. (Egypt and Jordan).

Thanks again

Hello DadManG,

You are a persistant man... I like that quality in a person.
I am pointing you to a message I posted a few days ago. Hope you will find some important points in it.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showpost.php?p=154764&postcount=95

You know sometime I wonder... How people reconcile these things ?

 

[DadManG]

An appropriate question.
No

 

[DadManG]

Optimist, Thank you for your response. I hope to continue with this dialogue. I do not intend to offend anyone.

You made this statement The concept of Trinity has been problematic for the church for two thousands years and will remain so simply because it is not true.
I am sure you realize that the Christian church has believed in the doctrine of the Trinity from day one. It being problematic is due to our inability to comprehend it.

As a muslim, do you believe that the Trinity is made up of God, Jesus, and Mary?
That is not what orthodox Christianity believes in. We believe it is made up of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Mary, was just human.

It's not that man became God, but God became man in Jesus Christ. As the bible says.
Yes, I realize that the Quran says something different, Thanks for sharing those references.
Well, it's easy to see that both the quran and bible cannot both be true.

Do you believe that at some point the bible never said that God became a man?
Are there any Christian writings older than the quran, that Islam believes to be true/ not been corrupted?

Peace