akhi riskyguy, please can you tell me about the authenticity of the ahaadeeth? As I have read that there are no authentic narrations of this matter. It is well known that the Musnad of Imam Ahmad is not a Saheeh, likewise the Mustadarak of Al-Haakim is not saheeh. The author, rahimahullaah gathered ahaadeeth that met the criteria of Al-Bukhaari and Muslim, but it has been said I believe by Imaam Adh-Dhahabee that he was forgetful in the latter part of his life, and hence some of the narrations don't infact meet such criteria.
As for the claim that it is mainly the followers of Ibn Taymiyyah, his students and his followers who make these assertions, then Ibn Katheer was one of his students. I checked in his Tafseer for the tafseer of the aayah you mentioned, and I didn't see what you wrote, which leads me to conclude that it has a) been removed due to it not being authentic, b) not actually being part of the tafseer but added in some manuscript or c) it has been removed for some other reason.
Regardless of the reason, here is what you stated...
This contradicts a Saheeh hadeeth that has been narrated in Al-Mukhtarah of Muhammad Ibn `Abd ul-Waahid Al-Maqdisee (his book is similar to Al-Mustadarak in that it mentions ahaadeeth that meet the criteria/conditions of the saheehayn). `Alee Ibn ul-Husayn saw a man supplicating at the grave of the Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam and stopped him. He then mentioned the statement of the Prophet, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam,
There are other clear ahaadeeth in the Saheeh of Imam Al-Bukhaaree about celebrating the grave of the Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. So what your saying seems to be in contradiction to this! Venerating is celebrating. So back to the point about the Tafseer of Ibn Katheer, well then that hadeeth which hasn't been found, clearly contradicts the authentic one that I have cited.
Akhee I admit that certain things I didn't read properly (about the pen and tablet) or totally missed hence some of my earlier posts (and their questions). But these claims now seem contradictory and don't prove that we are allowed to venerate and ask from the Messenger of Allaah. Anyway until further notice, I am closing this thread as I don't want it to lead to debating about personalities, matters pertaining `aqeedah etc.
And Allaah knows best.
As for the claim that it is mainly the followers of Ibn Taymiyyah, his students and his followers who make these assertions, then Ibn Katheer was one of his students. I checked in his Tafseer for the tafseer of the aayah you mentioned, and I didn't see what you wrote, which leads me to conclude that it has a) been removed due to it not being authentic, b) not actually being part of the tafseer but added in some manuscript or c) it has been removed for some other reason.
Regardless of the reason, here is what you stated...
This contradicts a Saheeh hadeeth that has been narrated in Al-Mukhtarah of Muhammad Ibn `Abd ul-Waahid Al-Maqdisee (his book is similar to Al-Mustadarak in that it mentions ahaadeeth that meet the criteria/conditions of the saheehayn). `Alee Ibn ul-Husayn saw a man supplicating at the grave of the Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam and stopped him. He then mentioned the statement of the Prophet, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam,
"Do not take my graves as a place of celebration (عيداً), nor your houses as graves. Say salaah upon me, surely your greeting will reach me where ever you are".
There are other clear ahaadeeth in the Saheeh of Imam Al-Bukhaaree about celebrating the grave of the Messenger, sal-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam. So what your saying seems to be in contradiction to this! Venerating is celebrating. So back to the point about the Tafseer of Ibn Katheer, well then that hadeeth which hasn't been found, clearly contradicts the authentic one that I have cited.
Akhee I admit that certain things I didn't read properly (about the pen and tablet) or totally missed hence some of my earlier posts (and their questions). But these claims now seem contradictory and don't prove that we are allowed to venerate and ask from the Messenger of Allaah. Anyway until further notice, I am closing this thread as I don't want it to lead to debating about personalities, matters pertaining `aqeedah etc.
And Allaah knows best.