Q's about wudhu

Discussion in 'Islamic Discussion' started by Kakorot, Oct 7, 2011.

  1. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    :salam2:

    1. If someone touches a non-mahram, does their wudhu break?

    2. In certain masjids they have the toilets and wudhu-making area in the same room. So is one not allowed to speak in the wudhu kana area? And say it's seperate but the entrance to the toilet area is open, then is one still not allowed to speak?

    3. Is the s-word really a swear word? And if one says it, does it break their wudhu? I hear it sometimes in the masjid, and sisters still carry on praying, read qur'aan etc. :S ... So I was just wondering.

    4. Does wudhu break if one changes nappies and accidently touches the baby's urine or private part etc.
  2. martyrnomore
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    martyrnomore New Member

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    1. It doesn't, but since you don't know where this person has been, I'd still perform wudu.

    2. I'm not sure.

    3. If it's the word I'm thinking about, then yes it is a swear word. It does not break wudu given that you aren't saying it.

    4. Urine will cancel your wudu. You'll have to do it again.
  3. Astrugglingsoul
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    Astrugglingsoul Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    i just want to ask a quick question
    if you change your clothes and your cloth goes above your knees does it break your wudhu?
    i am sorry for asking the question in your thread sister but i didn't want to start a new one.
  4. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    ^ No problem. I'm no scholar but I don't think it breaks your wudhu. People can change clothes and still have wudhu (so long they don't touch their private area, because then they'd have to).

    I just remembered another question:

    5. If someone made wudhu and then wore headscarf and had to re-new their wudhu - just like they way people wipe over their socks, can she wipe over the scarf?

    I would of privately asked a scholar I know, but he's busy all the time and barely picks up his phone. So I'd really appreciate it if someone could answer with evidence etc. and NOT BASED ON PERSONAL OPINIONS.

    Barak Allahu feekum.
  5. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    :salam2:

    Brothers and sisters, let's not give fatwas of our own please (meaning giving definite answers), as none of us are scholars. If you wish to present an opinion, then please reference it with a scholar who has said so, rather than just speaking from yourself, because this is a not a good trait and has been condemned.

    Recall this: It is reported that Imâm Mâlik – Allâh have mercy on him – was asked, “Who is allowed to give religious rulings (fatwâ)? He replied:

    Issuing fatwâ is not allowed except for a person who knows what the people have differed in. It was said, ‘Do you mean the different views of the people of opinions (those who depend more on analogy and speculation)? He replied, “No, [I mean] the different views of the Companions of Muhammad – Allâh’s praise and peace be upon him. And he must also know the textual evidence that abrogates [other rulings] and that which is abrogated [by other texts], both in the Quran and the hadîth of Allah’s Messenger – Allâh’s praise and peace be upon him. Such a person can issue fatâwâ.

    Ibn ‘Abd Al-Barr, Jâmi’ Bayân Al-’Ilm wa Fadlihî article 1529.

    It is reported that ‘Abdullâh b. Al-Mubârak – Allâh have mercy on him – was asked, “When can a person issue an edict (fatwâ)?” He replied, “When he is knowledgeable about the narrations (hadith and traditions of the Salaf), and has insight into [juristic] opinion.

    Ibid. article 1532.

    Keep that in mind, as well as this hadeeth, and please don't treat this matter lightly...

    Ibn Luhay'ah narrates on the authority of 'Abdullaah ibn Ja'far that the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:

    "The one who is most prepared to give fatwa, is the one who is most prepared for the Fire."

    [This refers to those who put themselves forward considering themselves prepared, when in actual fact they are not qualified to do so, wAllaahu A'lam!]

    Mabaahith fee Ahkaam al-Fatwa - Page 37

    wasalaamu 'alaykum
  6. OsMaN_93
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    OsMaN_93 Here to help

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    very irrelevant. No one is giving fatwas, however answers to the questions asked by the OP would be more appreciated. You moderators are so useless.
    _______
    1. Scholars differ in opinion on this matter. However, the correct view is that it does not invalidate wudu. http://islamqa.com/en/ref/2178

    2. It is preferable to do wudu in silence.

    3. Using a word to curse makes it a curse word, so depending on the context sh-t is a curse word. Anyway, I'd rather not answer this question as it would make me a hypocrite, so let someone else do so.

    4. If one touches his private parts he must do wudu, however I'm not sure about your situation.

    Finally, I think that you should read this article, it states clearly the factors that break wudu: http://islamqa.com/en/ref/14321

    wa salam alikom
  7. al-fajr
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    al-fajr ...ism..schism Staff Member

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    1.
    The Shaafi' madhab states it does break wudu'. IslamQA, if they do quote a madhab it is (usually) the Hanbali Madhab and it matches it quite a bit. Be aware of this when taking from IslamQA.

    2. There is an opinion that it is okay considering that modern day bathrooms are not places where impurity necessarily 'accumulates', (drainage) I don't know much more about this. IslamQA however, says no: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/9286/

    3. I don't know sis.

    By consensus, mere contact with an impurity doesn't invalidate wudu. That isn't the only issue here though, the question remains that is a baby considered to even have 'awrah for a start, and does contact during a nappy change, invalidate ones wudu? I don't know, I'm just seperating the two matters.

    Charming ..teenagers these days.

    Watch your manners. Sister Samiha's reminder was perfectly relevant considering someone is asking questions here which effectively, no one is actually qualified to answer of their own accord, and some had posted answers without evidence, this is a very necessary reminder even outside of this context! People need to respect Islaamic Scholarship, we need to restore its lofty status once again, in an age where everyone seems to have an opinion on every discipline.
  8. Idris16
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    Idris16 Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    Actually they are giving fatâwâs. You shouldn't say that the mods are useless my brother. What happened to you? You used to be cool back in the days when I was a new member here. Basically everyone thought you were older than 20. But I see you are younger. The first time I saw you here, you were 14-15.

    :salam2:
    I am a teenager!

    And also IslamQA, quotes from mad-habs, not only the Hanbali mad-hab. How many times have I seen them say that this and that mad-hab has the correct opinion [according to Salih al-Munajjid's ijtihâd I guess].
  9. al-fajr
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    Wa-alaykum assalam

    MashaAllaah akhi, no offence intended!

    You're right, but predominantly hanbali. I wasn't mentioning it as a negative, just as a 'point to note'.
  10. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    Interesting. So akhi, let's look at this second post in this thread - is this not giving personal fatwa? It is. Is the person giving it qualified to do so? He is not. Nor are any of us.

    When answering any question each and every one of us should Fear Allaah and since we are not a mujtahid, and we do not know the intricacies of fiqh, the extent we should go to is simply point out the opinion of other scholars, and perhaps the opinion we ourselves take on a matter and leave it at that.

    I did not have the time to be able to look up the sources in answer to the questions asked, so I refrained from answering them but instead posted a reminder to deter people from giving their own personal opinions as fatawa (which we often do without realizing).

    I'm going to take the rest of your post for example:

    In this answer, you've just made ijtihaad and passed your own fatwa. How? By deciding what the correct view was, and making it an absolute. Just because Islam-QA says that it's the correct view, doesn't mean that this is necessarily the correct view according to every-single-scholar. It just means, that Islam-QA considers it so.

    As a layman, you (nor I) have the right to say, this is the correct view. Now if you were a Mufti, had studied the narrations in depth, had access to and were aware of the differences of opinion and the reasons of these differences, then this may be fine. But until then, saying something is the strongest opinion, or most correct opinion without referencing it to someone - you've passed your own fatwa in essence.

    Says who? Again, is this not passing your own fatwa? Acquiring and sharing knowledge means not saying things in an absolute, but being able to refer to people and reasons for a certain aspect in Islaam. You're not doing the OP nor yourself any favors by simply leaving an answer like this, even if it may be correct.

    Here's the problem, don't consider yourself 'answering questions' because you're not qualified to do so, consider yourself bringing forth opinions about this matter, sharing resources if you will. That's the level you and I are at, and that's what we should realize.

    Finally akhi, I'd like to remind once again, Islam-QA is a wonderful resource, but don't consider it the end-all be all to fiqh, so when you also say the factors which break wudu' - it is again, according to those scholars. There are differences too about wudu if you get into intricacies such as if the flowing of blood invalidates wudu', or how much of it, etc.

    My reminder was to all of us, and it wasnt as a Mod. So your bit about Mods being useless akh, was a bit irrelevant actually, because I didn't write or remind as a mod, but as one Muslim to another.


    Allaah knows best.
  11. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    I wasn't referring to a guy touching his wife etc. What I meant is say someone is travelling and accidently touch/come into contact with a guy who is not their mahram, would that break their wudhu? E.g. when giving money over the counter, packed bus/train etc.


    But when we're doing wudhu, we have to say 'bismillah' whilst washing hands, face, nose etc. A shaykh explained that because we can't speak in the bathroom, we should say 'bismillah', the bathroom du'aa and then be silent throughout when making wudhu and say shahada when we exit. So that's why I wanted to know in a masjid, are we allowed to speak in the wudhu making area or is it the same for when we're in the bathroom?




    JazakAllahu khayran brother, but I know all that already.
  12. JenGiove
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    :salam2:

    Sister, You may want to read this fatwah. Its REALLY long so I'll just post the question and the link for you.

    Does touching a non-mahram woman invalidate wudoo’? Please mention the different scholarly opinions on that.
    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/76115/wudoo'

    Boy, you are lucky I'm not your mother.....! I've got some strong opinions too about the moderation on the board at times but never do you have the right to outright be rude and disrespectful....what would your mother say.....
  13. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    On IslamQA: Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz said:

    Remembering Allaah in one's heart is permissible at all times and in all places, in the washroom and elsewhere. Rather what is makrooh in the washroom and similar places is to remember Allaah on one’s tongue (by speaking), except for saying Bismillaah when beginning to do wudoo’. He should say that if it is not easy for him to do wudoo’ outside the bathroom, because it is obligatory according to some of the scholars, and it is Sunnah mu’akkadah (a confirmed Sunnah) according to the majority.

    I'm really confused at the highlighted bit. So according to S. 'Abdul 'Azeez bin Baaz, we can say 'bismillah' in the bathroom whilst making ablution?


    Does children's private parts become 'awrah after puberty? I didn't know that.

    Yeah I heard (from a shaykh) that if a baby boy urinates on one's clothing, then the person doesn't have to change and it doesn't break ablution. All they have to do is sprinkle water on top of the wet spot; however, if a baby girl urinates on one's clothing, one has to change but I can't remember if they have to re-new wudhu for a girl - but that's another question. I heard a shaykh say it is permissible to change a baby's nappy, but what I'm confused about is what if one touches their najas?

    Jazakillahu khayran sister.
  14. JenGiove
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    JenGiove Junior Member

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    :salam2:
    I hope it helps....fascinating information.


    http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/82517/diapers
  15. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    Wa 'alaykum salam.

    The issue of personal opinions relating to Islam is a dangerous thing, and your reminder is much needed. Jazakillahu khayran sister.
  16. samiha
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    samiha --------- Staff Member

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    What seems apparent ukhti, is that he rahimahullaah mentions how it is permissible to remember Allaah in you heart at all times, bathroom or otherwise, but as for vocalizing it - or saying it outloud - then this should not be done in the restrooms since it is makrooh.

    The exception here being made is Bismillah at the beginning of wudoo'. This should be said by the tongue according to the shaykh, in the case that it is not easy to make wudoo' outside of the bathroom, due to the level / status of the act.

    Lol o-kay I just basically rephrased the whole thing, but the short answer to yours is yes.

    waAllaahu A'lam
    .....

    Something interesting also, when Br. Abu Khaliyl (a brother who's gotten ijaazah on the books of hadeeth) was doing a class on Sunan An-Nisaa'i a loong while back, I remember that through one of the hadeeth he mentioned that certain scholars held the opinion that the bathroom area - is only the area in which one actually goes to the bathroom, meaning around the toilet or whatever, and not the entire bathroom. So accd to them, the du'aa for entering the bathroom is said when actually going into the part of the bathroom where one does the act, and everywhere else is not considered part of that and so it is fine to say the name of Allaah when making wudoo' at the sink etc.

    However, after that I havent actually come across this opinion in written form. Would be interesting if anyone's actually come across it.
  17. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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    May Allah bless you with hidaya sister. Thank you so much.


    I read the fatwa but it says in the end:

    "The most correct of these three views is the second one, that touching a woman does not invalidate wudoo’ at all, whether it is with desire or without desire."

    This is what the second opinion states:

    2-

    The second view is that touching a woman does not invalidate wudoo’ at all, whether it is with desire or without desire. This is the view of Imam Abu Haneefah (may Allaah have mercy on him).

    This view is indicated by a number of things:

    1- The basic principle is that purity (tahaarah) remains valid and is not cancelled out unless there is sound evidence that this thing invalidates wudoo’, and there is no such evidence in this case. As for the verse, we shall see below that what it refers to is intercourse, not just touching.

    2- It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: I used to sleep in front of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and my legs would be in the direction of his qiblah. When he prostrated, he would poke me and I would draw my legs up and when he stood up I would stretch them out again. Narrated by al-Bukhaari (382). In al-Nasaa’i (166) it says with a saheeh isnaad: until, when he wanted to pray Witr, he touched me with his leg.

    3- It was also narrated that she (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: I noticed that the Messenger of Allaah (S) was not in the bed one night, so I looked for him, and my hand fell on the sole of his foot. He was in the mosque, with his feet held upright, and he was saying, “O Allaah, I seek refuge in Your pleasure from Your wrath, in Your forgiveness from Your punishment.” Narrated by Muslim (486). According to a report narrated by al-Bayhaqi with a saheeh isnaad: I started reached out for him with my hand and my hand fell on his feet, and they were held upright and he was prostrating… It is also narrated by al-Nasaa’i (169).

    The apparent meaning of these ahaadeeth is undoubtedly that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) touched ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) when he was praying, and if touching a woman invalidates wudoo’ then his wudoo’ and prayer would have been invalidated. The Shaafa’is responded to these ahaadeeth with a weak argument, and said that perhaps it was from behind a barrier!

    Al-Shawkaani said: This argument is far fetched and it goes against the apparent meaning.

    4- It was also narrated from her (may Allaah be pleased with her) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) kissed one of his wives, then he went out to pray and he did not do wudoo’. Narrated by Abu Dawood (179) and classed as saheeh by Ibn Jareer, Ibn ‘Abd al-Barr and al-Zayla’i, and by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

    It was also classed as da’eef by many, including Sufyaan al-Thawri, Yahya ibn Sa’eed al-Qattaan, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, al-Daaraqutni, al-Bayhaqi and al-Nawawi.

    If this hadeeth is saheeh, then it is very clear evidence for this opinion. If it is not saheeh, then there is no need for it as there are the saheeh ahaadeeth quoted above, and the principle still stands that purification remains valid, and there is no evidence that wudoo’ is invalidated by touching a woman.




    Ok but the second opinion gives examples between the Prophet (peace be upon him) and A'isha (may Allah be pleased with her) but they were married, so the Prophet (peace be upon him) was her mahram. What if for instance, a male/female touch someone of the opposite gender, whom they are not related to. Would that break their wudhu? That's been my question from the beginning.
  18. samiha
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    :salam2:

    Oh. And by the way, I've never seen it mentioned anywhere personally that a woman's wudoo' would be broken by touching a non-mahram man. I've always seen it relating to a man touching a woman and the status of his wudoo'.

    Is the former even a fiqh issue?
  19. Kakorot
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    Kakorot Junior Member

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  20. Kakorot
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    Wa 'alaykum salam.

    The reason why I asked is because it's a sin to touch people who are non-mahram to us and sins invalidate wudhu. So that lead me to think if I accidently touch a guy, would my wudhu break? It leaves doubts on the back of my mind when I'm praying. And obviously I'm a female, so I'm going to ask this question as a female.

    I hope that makes some sort of sense.

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