Quran and Sunnah VS Personal Opinions, desires and Logic.

Omar3rd

New Member
:salam2:

Akhi if I may, logic is just a doorstep for individuals who have other references than that of Islam. One has to use common familiarities which are not faith based. It is just a way to lay the ground for a certain dialogue to take place.To consider logic as a completely opposite to Islam or as a threat to it , is like denying any sense to the mathematical patterns that govern the universe and consider them to be the result of a random casualty.

For example,If you say to a non Muslim that a beard has to have a certain length , that a woman has to inherit 2 times less than a man or that Riba is Haraam in today's world. They are not gonna understand it , because it needs faith to comprehend and adopt certain ruling for oneself,things that would be faith based for Muslims even as to their personal internal struggle and trust in Allah swt.

Even we are Muslims Alhamdulillah because it makes sense to us, nobody is forcing it on us,it is a certain awareness of plausibility we are caught by.There are thing you can not explain and that only Allah swt know best.

Once the person is a Muslim than of course the Quraan and Sunnah take a totally different dimension and become a superior reference and authority to them above anything, anybody can come up with.

If we Quote a hadeeth or an ayah every time we talk to somebody that is a non Muslim and say simply" Well it is because the Quraan or the Sunnah,Ibn Qayyim Al Jawziya,al Qurtubi or AS Shatibi...etc say so", they are not gonna understand.

Even on the internet it is easy to copy paste information or fatwas every time we are asked something,but if one lives Islam,then he should be able to give a certain basic information on his own.We are talking to humans they wanna know how we live and understand our faith,else they could just Google everything down.We have to give examples from the world they are surrounded by, through references they might identify with,otherwise we might as well stop doing Dawah and talking about Islam in our daily lives to people, If every time they ask us we tell them to addresses such and such scholar they never heard of.

Once a person is Muslim, of course only qualified scholars can give fatwas, the data is huge and it takes them lifetimes to study a certain subject to even attain such levels if at all.Someone like Sheikh Al Albani rahimoulla , who had memorized more than 150 thousand hadeeth ,he could just pull out of nowhere in a discussion,Mashallah and he grant him Firdaws among the closest ones.

A lot of people who have embraced islam ,the first thing they say is"because it makes sense".They did become Muslim thanks to Allah swt guidance but also through meeting a regular Muslim who they might have had a discussion with in their city, country,job or university..etc. They did not do it, because they were in touch with top scholars. Have I misunderstood the sense of your post maybe ?. You are doing a great job and I don't wanna upset you.

I might be wrong, feel free to disagree.Am really genuinely trying to understand for myself and people like myself ,who are regular Muslims and who just happen to feel passionate about their faith and instinctively wanna share it with others in their daily lives, without the intention of necessarily making a living out of it.Allah Maak.


Wallahu Allam wa Alla Wa Ahkam.

:salam2: brother

Muslims may need logic to understand Quran and Sunnah and Dawah purpose but not to believe in Quran and Sunnah.I think brother mabsoot article was TurntoIslam for Muslims.

There are many modern Muslims in this world, who don't even believe in Ahadith of Prophet (SAW) and need of Scholars in their life!!! do we need logic to believe in Ahadith of Prophet (SAW) and learn from great Scholars of past and present????

If logic was so important in Islam than Abu bakr (Siddiq) رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ won't be hanoured by prophet (SAW) as (Siddiq).He believed prophet (SAW) Miraj 1400 years ago, which logic of this day and age make sense because of modern technology.Yes, this world has 1 Abu Bakr Siddiq رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ. Not everyone's Imaan is like Adu Bakr Siddiq رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ.That's the reason we may sometimes need logic to understand Islam but not to believe in it.

Non-Muslims need logic to understand and believe in Quran and Sunnah.

Brothers and sisters correct me if I am wrong about need of (logic in Islam ) and I am here to learn.I will be really happy, if you brothers/sisters correct my mistakes.

:salam2:
 

Parvaiz

Junior Member
:salam2:
Many simply fail to get this and fall into devils play.I advice alot of people here in real life to stop saying i think or i believe my thinking says,as soon as you see something which you dont have knowledge about its better you keep quiet rather than say something from yourself.May Allah protect us from all innovations and devil play.
 

Omar3rd

New Member
:wasalam: brother, Jazakallahu Khair.
You don't have to apologise for it.It's my mistake I didn't understand you.
 

Omar3rd

New Member
:salam2:
Many simply fail to get this and fall into devils play.I advice alot of people here in real life to stop saying i think or i believe my thinking says,as soon as you see something which you dont have knowledge about its better you keep quiet rather than say something from yourself.May Allah protect us from all innovations and devil play.

:wasalam:

Thanks for your advice brother.I joined TTI in 2009 as you can see but I never felt to post simply because of fear that I might say something which might astray others from Islam.Nawuzubillah
From 2009 till today I see many members here gives fatawa right and left regarding many fiqh issues.Only reason I posted this few post because I felt it's really nessessary in this day and age and it's not even a fatawa.

I will never post again here as I believe silence is better than speak,speacially when it comes to Islam.

May Allah (SWT) forgive me if I said anything wrong.Ameen

:salam2:
 

Parvaiz

Junior Member
:wasalam:

Thanks for your advice brother.I joined TTI in 2009 as you can see but I never felt to post simply because of fear that I might say something which might astray others from Islam.Nawuzubillah
From 2009 till today I see many members here gives fatawa right and left regarding many fiqh issues.Only reason I posted this few post because I felt it's really nessessary in this day and age and it's not even a fatawa.

I will never post again here as I believe silence is better than speak,speacially when it comes to Islam.

May Allah (SWT) forgive me if I said anything wrong.Ameen

:salam2:
Brother you can post ,dont be left out.Islam comes from sharing knowledge.What we must do is provide information with authentic sayings of Prophet Muhammad or Qur'an.If a brother provides some information and someone tries to insert his opinion on the matter than is when the problem comes into play.Reason for it lack of knowledge.Islam is "What Allah says and what is Prophet says" ,there is no place for third person.Stay in touch brother that's how your knowledge will grow.
 

Omar3rd

New Member
Islam is "What Allah says and what is Prophet says" ,there is no place for third person.

:salam2:Jazakallahu Khair brother.
What about Scholars? Also brother can you kindly give me Scholars opinions or fatwa regarding logic vs Islam with reference from Quran and Ahadith.

Thanks
 

Parvaiz

Junior Member
:salam2:
You may have taken my answer in different logic by third person i meant ordinary people.
Scholar hold very high position in Islam ,i currently cannot remember the exact verse,ill inshAllah post it as soon as i come across it.But the condition again is set as long as the scholar retrieves his answers from sahih hadith and Qur'an we will follow him,if he doesn't we cannot.Its also is our duty when a scholar mentions some Hadith etc to look it up for its authenticity ,anyone can say this is sahih hadith later to be found its weak .Secondly opinions of all scholars should be taken and not based on one,best is to take the opinion agreed by the most scholars.
 

Omar3rd

New Member
:salam2:
You may have taken my answer in different logic by third person i meant ordinary people.
Scholar hold very high position in Islam ,i currently cannot remember the exact verse,ill inshAllah post it as soon as i come across it.But the condition again is set as long as the scholar retrieves his answers from sahih hadith and Qur'an we will follow him,if he doesn't we cannot.Its also is our duty when a scholar mentions some Hadith etc to look it up for its authenticity ,anyone can say this is sahih hadith later to be found its weak .Secondly opinions of all scholars should be taken and not based on one,best is to take the opinion agreed by the most scholars.

:wasalam: Jazakallahu khair brother. Alhamdulillah I knew this just wanted your clarification. Also I had this questions in my mind.

1. Is it wrong for me to say that above bold mark sentence is the right place to use our logic?
2. Do we need logic to believe in Ahadith of Prophet (SAW) and learn from Scholars?

3. What are the majority Scholars opinions or fatwa regarding logic vs Islam with reference from Quran and Sahih Ahadith?
 

Parvaiz

Junior Member
:wasalam: Jazakallahu khair brother. Alhamdulillah I knew this just wanted your clarification. Also I had this questions in my mind.

1. Is it wrong for me to say that above bold mark sentence is the right place to use our logic?
2. Do we need logic to believe in Ahadith of Prophet (SAW) and learn from Scholars?

3. What are the majority Scholars opinions or fatwa regarding logic vs Islam with reference from Quran and Sahih Ahadith?

:salam2:
No by that i mean you will need to lookup hadith in the books to see the authenticity.I would refer to you books by sheikh Albani.Silsalat al Hadith Sahih and Silsalatg Hadith Zaeef.He has divided the books and have provided reason for the hadith being weak etc.Its only out in Arabic i am not sure if its availabnle in English or any other language.

If we start using logic we will simply lead ourself astray the reason behind it is,like ,how did Prophet Isa born.Science would say its impossible your logic would say its impossible but Islam is What Allah Wills.Next qouting your own point
If logic was so important in Islam than Abu bakr (Siddiq) رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ won't be hanoured by prophet (SAW) as (Siddiq).He believed prophet (SAW) Miraj 1400 years ago, which logic of this day and age make sense because of modern technology.Yes, this world has 1 Abu Bakr Siddiq رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ. Not everyone's Imaan is like Adu Bakr Siddiq رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡهُ.That's the reason we may sometimes need logic to understand Islam but not to believe in it.

IT would be better we dont assume everything on our thoughts as Allah says.
Surah Al-Ma’idah, 5: 3 This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
The Ayah completely states that religion given to Prophet Muhammad by Allah has completed and there is nothing left to add to it.Anyone who says Our so and so solved the issue meaning :astag: Prophet Muhammad dint teach us this than the person knows where he belongs.
People now a days take a hadith and simply force it to fit their needs.Allah says "Do not make this religion fun and play".If still person disagrees than Allah says
To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.
Does a person logic believe than a camel can pass through needle eye?

you can refer more on it
http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/88184
 

Omar3rd

New Member
:wasalam: Jazakallahu Khair brother, you explained really nicely.I was wrong about logic in Islam.I would request mods to delete my post 19 and 21 please asap.I don't want to misguide others by my posts.May Allah (SAW) forgive my mistakes and protect us from misguides.Ameen

:salam2:
 

wggh

New Member
so happy to be here

I am so happy to be here
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I have written the following mini-article which inshaAllah is a good reminder for us, and hopefully the evidences be used as guiding principles for our Islamic sharing on this website.

Importance of the Quran, the Sunnah and utilising the Scholars.

As Muslims we need to learn Islam according to the Quran and Sunnah, with the explanations by the early Muslims, and we should understand that Islamic ruling / fatawa are given by the Ulema. It simply can not be based upon our own personal opinions, philosophies or even logic.

The Quran and the Sunnah is our perfect source.

The Quran is the word of Allah, revealed to the Prophet Muhammad :saw: via the Angel Gabriel. The Sunnah is the teaching of the Prophet :saw: from his words and It is not for us to reject or ignore a hadith, because our own personal desires or thoughts say otherwise.

Allah said in the Qur'an: “Your companion (Muhammad) is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he speak of his own desire. It is (only) the revelation with which he is inspired” (Surah An-Najm 53:2-4).

The Sunnah is based upon the words, actions and approvals of the Prophet (s). The Prophet (s) did not teach anything that was not revealed to him from Allah the Most High.

Imam Ahmad, rahimahullah said in his work Usul as-Sunnah, that the Sunnah explains the Quran and there is no Qiyas in the Sunnah. - Qiyas means that a person can not use analogical reasoning of the Sunnah.

Unfortunately, some individuals choose to ignore the Sunnah. They make varying excuses due to either their ignorance or arrogance, or perhaps even both.

The Prophet of Allah :saw: said:
“I have been given the Qur'aan and something similar to it besides it. Yet a time will come when a man leaning on his couch will say ‘follow the Qur'aan only; what you find in it permissible, take as permissible, and what you find as forbidden, take as forbidden’. But verily what the Messenger of Allaah has forbidden is like what Allaah has forbidden” Authentic Hadith (Ahmad, Abu Dawood)

“Whosoever obeys the Messenger, has indeed obeyed Allaah” (Surah An-Nisa 4:80)

“But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (O’ Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept them with full submission” (Sura An-Nisa 4:65)

“It is not fitting for a believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decreed by Allaah and His Messenger to have any choice in the matter. If anyone disobeys Allaah and His Messenger he is clearly astray” (Surah Al-Ahzab 33:36)

The Prophet :saw: said:
“I have left two things among you, as long as you hold fast to them you will never go astray. They are the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger" (Al-Muwatta)

The Importance of the Scholars:

Narrated By Abdillah Ibn Amr Ibn 'Aas (radiallahu 'anhu) he said: I
heard the Prophet :saw: say :"Allah does not take away knowledge by taking it away from the hearts of the worshippers. But he takes knowledge by taking away the Ulama
(Scholars) until there are hardly any scholars then the people will take ignorant leaders and they will be asked questions and they will give rulings without knowledge so hence they go astray and lead others astray."
(Bukhari and Muslim)

The learned scholars who spend their days and nights, enduring hardships in seeking knowledge of Islam to help the Ummah. They understand topics of the Deen based not merely by one or two ayaat or hadith, but with the scope of knowledge needed to make answers and verdicts. - The hadith above shows the importance of the scholars, the fact that by taking the scholars away Allah takes knowledge away.

Brothers and sisters, Muhammad Ibn Sireen (rahimahullah) said, "This religion is knowledge so therefore beware of who you take your knowledge from". Another statement of the past scholars is "Do not take from a Suhufi (one who reads books and never studied under the scholars) nor a Mushafi (one who reads Qur'an but never studied the rules of Tajweed or Tafseer under the scholars).

People who can give Fatwa are the elite known scholars, nobody else. It is not right for an individual to come along and give their own opinions on matters of the Deen. Whether its a matters of science of hadith, tafsir, fiqh or Aqeedah. A person can not merely negate matters of shariah because they do not like it. Unfortunately, these days individuals cite they are using "logic" in order to give what are in fact their personal erroneous desires and philosophies.

We must look to the early sources and respect the matters of the early Muslims and the scholars of our times. Remember again, the Prophet :saw: said that Allah removes the knowledge, by the removal of the scholars. When people start taking their rulings and understanding of the Deen from the ignorant people who do not bring evidences or the statements of the scholars, this is when our personal beliefs and the Ummah itself become weaker.

May Allah guide us to what is the best way and make things easier for us, amin

Wasalamu alaykum
 

kalamazoo

'Millat "IBRAHIM" {AleyhiSalaam}
asalaam aleykum.

Quran and Sunnah VS Personal Opinions, desires and Logic.

"Allah, Subjnahu wa Taalah.....has replied to those who came to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) That: dont say aamanaaa but~~~

~~~"Say aslamnaa....hata yadkhul Iymaan fi Kulubukum.

brother mabsoot wrote:

Originally Posted by Mabsoot View Post
Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

I have written the following mini-article which inshaAllah is a good reminder for us, and hopefully the evidences be used as guiding principles for our Islamic sharing on this website.


i think it wont be easy but if I may Propose Raise Up a kuranic verse then-ask everybody reply as to how he/she Could explain according to his/her HEARTLY understood it and how applied.

shukran.
 
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