Quran found in Yemen?? Much older then the one we know??

user expired!

Junior Member
:salam2:,

Well the first article suggests that they are still reseraching or going to research the manuscripts to look for 'errors',

quote-

This means that soon Von Bothmer, Puin, and other scholars will finally have a chance to scrutinize the texts and to publish their findings freely—a prospect that thrills Puin. "So many Muslims have this belief that everything between the two covers of the Koran is just God's unaltered word," he says. "They like to quote the textual work that shows that the Bible has a history and did not fall straight out of the sky, but until now the Koran has been out of this discussion. The only way to break through this wall is to prove that the Koran has a history too. The Sana'a fragments will help us to do this."

The big issue here is that at the time of the Sahabah(ra) the main form of memorising Qur'an was orally and not via the manuscripts unlike today. Even if you go places like Mauritania some mosques would have very few Qur'an's becuase the whole Qur'an is memorised at such a young age. This is very significant as at the time of the Sahabah the scribes who were told to write, would make annotations to the Qur'an for there own personal use (as you would do to lecture motes in uni), but it was all memorised and kept consistant, and 100% correct and has NO inconsistancies.

for more information please refer to books on Uloom-ul Qur'an, an excellent book in english is called-

An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur'aan : Revised Second Edition (Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi)

ISBN:
Author: Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi
Publisher: Al Hidaayah Publishers & Distributors (UK) Publishing
Pages: 424 Binding: Hardback


Description from the publisher:

From the book's back cover: "An Introduction to the Sciences of the Qur'aan presents a detailed and through explanation of the sciences related to the history, understanding and implementation of the Qur'aan.

The book provides the English reader with a detailed analysis of classic Muslim scholarship regarding: the process of Inspiration (wahy); the various means of classifying verses of the Qur'aan; the history of the compilation of the Qur'aan; the meaning of the seven ahruf and the ten qira'aat of the Qur'aan; the miraculous nature of the Qur'aan; the concept of abrogation in the Qur'aan; the procedure and methodology of tafseer; and many other topics. The work has a number of sections dedicated to explaining the traditional Muslim refutations of certain beliefs of the Ash'arees with regards to the Qur'aan.

This book also includes detailed discussions on modern Western scholarship of the Qur'aan. After presenting a history of the English translation of the Qur'aan, along with a critical review of some translations, the author discusses and refutes common Orientalist polemic literature on the Qur'aan. The work is unique in that it presents classic material in a simple and modern style, while maintaining a high academic level. It is the most advanced work of its kind in the English language, and a necessary reference for all serious students of Islamic knowledge." Published in 1999.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum.

I wouldn't be too shaken if that is how you feel. We know that people have made errors in transcribing the Qur'aan, minute errors at that, errors made by the penmen... Akhi, they could've been buried because of that purpose, because they contradicted the script that was passed from Abu Bakr to eventually `Uthman.

Also remember, that there were a number of ways, namely seven, in reciting the Qur'aan. Some of these recitals used different words and phrases at points, or certain couplets in reverse order, yet the meaning was the same... For more information on this, consult a good English book on the subject of Tafseer, Usool Ut-Tafseer, `Uloom ul-Qur'aan etc.

`Uthman Ibn `Affaan, may Allaah be pleased with him, ordered the various recitals to be destroyed keeping and limiting them to one, the copy he had in possession; the text we know today.

It looks as though the German caligraphy expert is picking on these points in an attempt to shatter the (true) belief that the Qur'aan has been intact since its revelation. This much seemed obvious to me and Allaah knows best. I doubt he himself is ignorant of the history of the Qur'aan, the seven recitals etc, so the article is probably just another attempt in weakening our eemaan!

Allaah knows best.

Was-salaam
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Praise be 2 Allah! - I knew posting my this stuff here would give me some nice feedback - I had my emaan rather low when my brother (who i recently found out is agnostic, was muslim...but is now agnostic) told me about this documentary he said about the quran and it said there was a one new.. i had trouble sleeping and begged for guidance from Allah swt - and alas it came :) inshallah there will b more feedback too
 

SubmitToAllah

New Member
As-Salāmu `Alaykum!

This is my first post here and I'm not 100% muslim yet. Inshallah I will be soon!

But here are some interesting articles:

http://www.muslimedia.com/ARCHIVES/features99/orientalist.htm

Orientalists plot against the Qur'an under the guise of academic study and archive preservation
By Aisha Geissinger

In 1972, a 'paper grave' was found by labourers doing restoration work in the Great Mosque in Sana'a, Yemen. Between the mosque's inner and outer roofs was a collection of old parchment and paper documents, damaged books and individual pages. Centuries of rain and damp, and damage by insects and rats had made much of it unreadable. Qadhi Isma'il al-Akwa', then president of the Yemeni Antiquities Authority, thought that the find could be important, and tried to obtain the funds and expertise necessary to examine and preserve the documents. In 1979 he managed to interest a visiting German scholar in the documents, who in turn persuaded the German government to fund and organise their restoration.

The German government sent Gerd-R. Puin, a specialist in Arabic calligraphy and Qur'anic paleology, from Saarland University to supervise the project in 1981. Now, more than 15,000 documents have been cleaned and sorted, and lie in Yemen's House of Manuscripts. The documents include tens of thousands of fragments from almost one thousand different copies of the Qur'an. Some pieces may date back to the first and second centuries after the hijra, making them among the oldest surviving Qur'anic manuscripts. The Yemeni authorities do not want the fact that Orientalists are working on these documents to be widely known, fearing protest from concerned Muslims. So far, they have only allowed Puin and H.-C. Grant von Bothner, an Islamic art historian from the same university, to examine the documents closely.

To the excitement of Puin and von Bothner, some showed minor differences in wording and verse-order from Qur'ans in use today. Knowing that access to the documents could be prevented in future if Muslims realized the implications of their research, von Bothner took more than 35,000 pictures on microfilm of the texts. Now that the microfilm is safely in Germany, Orientalists are free to study the documents and publish their conclusions, and journalists, self-proclaimed reformers and other interested parties can also discuss the implications of the find without having to worry about jeopardizing Puin and von Bonther's research.

An article entitled What is the Koran? was published in the Atlantic Monthly in January 1999 about this restoration project. It clarifies its objectives: Puin wants to challenge the Muslim belief that the Qur'an is the unchanged word of God. Muslims, he says, have agreed with the textual critics of the Bible that the Bible has a history and "did not fall straight out of the sky", but have refused to accept that the Qur'an also has a history. He believes that the fragments found in Sana'a will prove that the Qur'an is "a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad" (p. 46). Andrew Rippin, professor of Religious Studies at the University of Calgary, Canada, claims that they show that the Qur'anic text "is less stable, and therefore has less authority, than has always been claimed" (p. 45).

The fact is that the existence of minor differences in wording and in the ordering of the surahs in the earliest masahif (manuscripts) is no surprise to Muslims familiar with classical Islamic scholarship of the Qur'an. Such variations occurred for several reasons. One factor is the dialectical differences then existing in different regions of Arabia. Another is that some of the Sahaba kiram (Companions) recorded such masahif for their own personal use. As these persons had either memorised the Qur'an in its entirety or large portions of it, such masahif were written merely as an aid to memory. Therefore, notes in the margins such as the wording of du'as (supplications) occurred, and the order of surahs varied. Books written by classical Muslim scholars, such as al-Suyuti's Itqan, go into great detail about such issues.

When the Khalifa 'Uthman ibn 'Affan ordered that one standard text be used and others destroyed, the Sahaba who possessed masahif containing variants did not object to this ruling, which shows that they agreed with his verdict. Moreover, in the subsequent civil war between the supporters of the Khalifa Ali ibn Abi-Talib and Mu'awiya, calls for arbitration according to the Qur'an never involved claims that the other side had an incomplete or changed Qur'an. This would have been a convenient and devastating weapon if it could have been at all convincing. Knowledge about these variations has been preserved by classical Muslim scholarship, and has been useful to scholars of tafsir (Qur'anic interpretation). It was never seen as evidence against the integrity of the Qur'anic text, however, and for this reason Orientalists have not succeeded in building a compelling argument upon it. Having their own documents to build speculations upon gives them much more room to manoeuvre, as they can define the terms and conditions of their research.

Studies of the texts are likely to achieve two main objectives. For Orientalists, the Sana'a fragments provide more material upon which to build conjectures about the 'evolution' of the Qur'anic text and events in early Islamic history. Would-be reformers will use the documents, or, more likely, Orientalists' conclusions about them, to undercut the authority of the classical scholars and contemporary ulama. The Atlantic Monthly indicates that some Orientalists and 'reformers' will work together on the project of reinterpreting the Qur'an: An Encyclopedia of the Qur'an, similar to Biblical encyclopedias written by textual critics, is being published to present the latest Orientalist approaches to Qur'anic interpretation. Nasr Abu-Zaid, who claims that the Qur'an can only be understood as a literary text, and was legally declared an apostate in Egypt in 1995, is on the advisory board.

Western study of the Qur'an and of Islam originated in missionary and military concerns. Modern 'specialists' in Islam have tried to distance themselves from this heritage and project their conclusions as secular, scientific and unbiased. However, the article reveals a persistent Biblical as well as secular bias These specialists seem blissfully unaware that Biblical criticism and their version of Qur'anic studies did not "fall out of the sky" either. These approaches to scripture are products of a particular historical, political and economic climate.

The Bible is the implicit model against which the Qur'an is measured. It is considered a "cocktail" because it does not present material in the chronological or thematic order typical of Biblical narratives. Secular biases in both Biblical and Qur'anic studies are revealed in hostility to divine revelation in any form: any text dealing with miraculous occurrences is deemed inauthentic. Also, the Biblical form of any narrative is considered to be the most authentic, because it is older, while the idea that the Qur'an, as the latest revelation, could be correct in its different accounts of events is dismissed. The limitations of the purveyors of this 'unbiased' and 'scientific' study of the Qur'an are arrogantly imposed on the sacred text itself. Puin claims that one-fifth of the Qur'an is incomprehensible, apparently because he himself cannot understand it. Fourteen hundred years of Muslim scholarship, devotion and art issuing forth from the Qur'an are seen as carrying less weight than the opinions of a handful of non-Muslims who cannot even claim native fluency in classical Arabic.

The fact that the preservation of Qur'anic documents is left in the hands of such people is a tragedy that reflects the impotence and lack of faith of the Muslim Ummah. It brings to mind the ahadith which describe the disappearance of the Qur'an from the masahif and the memories of people which will occur in the Last Days. The openly political agenda of these Orientalists is evident; once the Muslims' confidence in the authenticity of the Qur'an is undermined, Islam will have no social or political authority. Muslims will no longer be able to claim to know what the divine will is on issues ranging from the implementation of Islamic laws to the liberation of al-Quds (Jerusalem).

Convenient solutions, based on the realities of the political and economic domination of the west, will be imposed upon them with utter impunity.

Muslimedia: May 16-31, 1999


And here is another link about this:

http://hamzatzortzis.blogspot.com/2008/07/refuting-channel-4s-quran-programme.html
 

xSharingan01x

TraVeLer
:salam2:

I'm not sure what the Yemeni authority has done in the past or doing currently, but I think it's stupid to allow these kuffar scholars who wants to scrutinize the Quran. They make no secret out of it! It's dumb and stupid to allow these people any access. Such manuscripts should be studied and examined by Muslim scholars first and foremost not some weirdos from Germany who has something to prove.

:wasalam:
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
Ya Allah!!!

I heard this guy's theories on his "findings" on a show on National Geographic...

He was saying things that my little brother (13 at the time)...was like...*uuummmm is this guy on crack???!!! (13 year old Americanized boy talking..lol)...what is he talking about???*

Mind you...my brother's knowledge of Islam is extremely humble..and he has never read the Qura'an in Arabic as he is not literate in it...

Imagine the reaction of someone who had read the Qura'an in Arabic...and has decent knowledge of Islam

Anyway...

the guy was saying some very preposterous things...he was literally twisting..kneading..stretching...stumping..and squeezing explanations of "verses" from the Qura'an he found...it was sad and ridiculous simultaneously...

I myself...with my 5th grade level Arabic...immediately pointed out the lingual errors he was falling into and how he was twisting meanings around...and upon double-checking with my father who has authored 16 novels in Arabic and writes weekly articles for a newspaper...he said...you are correct in your points about his lingual errors..everything he said can be easily annulled

So don't worry brother...this guy is just amongst many who are going out there with propagandas...I *watched* and *heard* the theories this guy had..I seriously laughed...

I just wish I can thank the guy...because with his bologne...he sure gave me a shot of confidence regarding my Arabic which I always thought was horrible for someone my age...lol

These people are mentioned in the Qura'an itself brother..we have been warned against them...do not give heed into their words...and avoid getting into things of the sort...they won't bring you any benefit with the shaitan waiting around for any chance to weaken your Iman :hijabi:

:wasalam:
 

nyerekareem

abdur-rahman
:salam2:


this scientist may claim to be doing this for the sake of science or for history, but the truth is that he is only trying to refute the quran and to lower the iman of the believers. he knows that no religious text in history has been preserved like the quran has. he probably knows that the greatest miracle of islam is the very quran itself. i wouldn't be discouraged by his so called findings in any way, shape or form.
:wasalam:
 

~Ali_

Fixing da foundation
Jazakallah khair brothers and sisters you have all made me feel alot better :D and yes my brother did find out about this from nat geo
 

a_stranger

Junior Member
:salam2:
Since the start of revelation many many people tryed to stop the light of Allah swt but ; No way:

29:49 Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs.
Quran

It is not strange that some kafer try to refute Quran but the propblem that this is done using our islamic land.
 

BigAk

Junior Member
:salam2:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/199901/koran
A new quran got discovered in yemen or something..

That article written by Toby Lester is dated January 1999.... Today is 2008; NINE years later, and nobody has come forward to invalidate our Quran based on the discoveries in Yemen... What are they waiting for I wonder!!!

Plus, reading the above article, Lester goes on claiming the many of what he calls discrepencies, but not in one incident does he provide any proof for his claims from the Quran. This article is a proof of its propagandistic nature at best. The internet is full of this type of people like Lester. He's not the first of his kind.

.
 

BigAk

Junior Member
The following is from "answering-christianity.com"

Moreover, after the publication of the Atlantic Monthly, Puin wrote a letter in which he revealed:





"The important thing, thank God, is that these Yemeni Qur'anic fragments do not differ from those found in museums and libraries elsewhere, with the exception of details that do not touch the Qur'an itself, but are rather differences in the way words are spelled. This phenomenon is well-known, even in the Qur'an published in Cairo in which is written:



Ibrhim next to Ibrhm

Quran next to Qrn

Simahum next to Simhum



In the oldest Yemeni Qur'anic fragments, for example, the phenomenon of not writing the vowel alif is rather common."





Prof. Azami comments:



"This deflates the entire controversy, dusting away the webs of intrigue that were spun around Puin's discoveries and making them a topic unworthy of further speculation."





Source: Puin's letter and Prof. Azami's comments cited from: M. M. Azami, The History of the Qur'anic Text from Revelation to Compilation: A Comparative Study with the Old and New Testaments, UK Islamic Academy, 2003 pp. 12

Case closed.... LOL

.
 

a_muslimah86

Hubbi Li Rabbi
Staff member
The following is from "answering-christianity.com"



Case closed.... LOL

.

Wow!

Do these people really think before they say or do anything against Islam???

Are they seriously *that* infuriated by it and *that* blinded with hate towards it???

I mean...how many times are they going to have to be proven wrong..in front of the WHOLE WORLD..before they drop their propagandas and just move on with their lives???

So many times...I feel embarrassed *for them* when they go about ranting their "discoveries".."findings"...and "theories"...and then like we say in American slang...at a certain point...they get *owned* with a scholar's research..

La Hawla Wala Qowta Illa Billah!

Jazaka Allah Khair & Baraka Allaho Feek for the information brother...it sure put the speculations to rest

:wasalam:
 
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