radical revision of Islamic texts

a_brother

Make dua for us all
:salam2: brothers and sisters
what are those people thinking about?!?!?!?!?:astag:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm




BBC NEWS
Turkey in radical revision of Islamic texts
By Robert Piggott
Religious affairs correspondent, BBC News

Turkey is preparing to publish a document that represents a revolutionary reinterpretation of Islam - and a controversial and radical modernisation of the religion.

The country's powerful Department of Religious Affairs has commissioned a team of theologians at Ankara University to carry out a fundamental revision of the Hadith, the second most sacred text in Islam after the Koran.

The Hadith is a collection of thousands of sayings reputed to come from the Prophet Muhammad.

As such, it is the principal guide for Muslims in interpreting the Koran and the source of the vast majority of Islamic law, or Sharia.

This is kind of akin to the Christian Reformation. Not exactly the same, but... it's changing the theological foundations of [the] religion
Fadi Hakura,
Turkey expert, Chatham House

But the Turkish state has come to see the Hadith as having an often negative influence on a society it is in a hurry to modernise, and believes it responsible for obscuring the original values of Islam.

It says that a significant number of the sayings were never uttered by Muhammad, and even some that were need now to be reinterpreted.

'Reformation'

Commentators say the very theology of Islam is being reinterpreted in order to effect a radical renewal of the religion.

Its supporters say the spirit of logic and reason inherent in Islam at its foundation 1,400 years ago are being rediscovered. Some believe it could represent the beginning of a reformation in the religion.

Some messages ban women from travelling without their husband's permission... But this isn't a religious ban. It came about because it simply wasn't safe for a woman to travel alone
Prof Mehmet Gormez,
Hadith expert,
Department of Religious Affairs

Turkish officials have been reticent about the revision of the Hadith until now, aware of the controversy it is likely to cause among traditionalist Muslims, but they have spoken to the BBC about the project, and their ambitious aims for it.

The forensic examination of the Hadiths has taken place in Ankara University's School of Theology.

An adviser to the project, Felix Koerner, says some of the sayings - also known individually as "hadiths" - can be shown to have been invented hundreds of years after the Prophet Muhammad died, to serve the purposes of contemporary society.

"Unfortunately you can even justify through alleged hadiths, the Muslim - or pseudo-Muslim - practice of female genital mutilation," he says.

"You can find messages which say 'that is what the Prophet ordered us to do'. But you can show historically how they came into being, as influences from other cultures, that were then projected onto Islamic tradition."

The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control.

Leaders of the Hadith project say successive generations have embellished the text, attributing their political aims to the Prophet Muhammad himself.

Revolutionary

Turkey is intent on sweeping away that "cultural baggage" and returning to a form of Islam it claims accords with its original values and those of the Prophet.

But this is where the revolutionary nature of the work becomes apparent. Even some sayings accepted as being genuinely spoken by Muhammad have been altered and reinterpreted.

Prof Mehmet Gormez, a senior official in the Department of Religious Affairs and an expert on the Hadith, gives a telling example.

"There are some messages that ban women from travelling for three days or more without their husband's permission and they are genuine.

"But this isn't a religious ban. It came about because in the Prophet's time it simply wasn't safe for a woman to travel alone like that. But as time has passed, people have made permanent what was only supposed to be a temporary ban for safety reasons."

The project justifies such bold interference in the 1,400-year-old content of the Hadith by rigorous academic research.

Prof Gormez points out that in another speech, the Prophet said "he longed for the day when a woman might travel long distances alone".

So, he argues, it is clear what the Prophet's goal was.

Original spirit

Yet, until now, the ban has remained in the text, and helps to restrict the free movement of some Muslim women to this day.

There's also violence against women within families, including sexual harassment... This does not exist in Islam... we have to explain that to them
Hulya Koc, a "vaize"

As part of its aggressive programme of renewal, Turkey has given theological training to 450 women, and appointed them as senior imams called "vaizes".

They have been given the task of explaining the original spirit of Islam to remote communities in Turkey's vast interior.

One of the women, Hulya Koc, looked out over a sea of headscarves at a town meeting in central Turkey and told the women of the equality, justice and human rights guaranteed by an accurate interpretation of the Koran - one guided and confirmed by the revised Hadith.

She says that, at the moment, Islam is being widely used to justify the violent suppression of women.

"There are honour killings," she explains.

"We hear that some women are being killed when they marry the wrong person or run away with someone they love.

"There's also violence against women within families, including sexual harassment by uncles and others. This does not exist in Islam... we have to explain that to them."

'New Islam'

According to Fadi Hakura, an expert on Turkey from Chatham House in London, Turkey is doing nothing less than recreating Islam - changing it from a religion whose rules must be obeyed, to one designed to serve the needs of people in a modern secular democracy.

He says that to achieve it, the state is fashioning a new Islam.

"This is kind of akin to the Christian Reformation," he says.

"Not exactly the same, but if you think, it's changing the theological foundations of [the] religion. "

Fadi Hakura believes that until now secularist Turkey has been intent on creating a new politics for Islam.

Now, he says, "they are trying to fashion a new Islam."

Significantly, the "Ankara School" of theologians working on the new Hadith have been using Western critical techniques and philosophy.

They have also taken an even bolder step - rejecting a long-established rule of Muslim scholars that later (and often more conservative) texts override earlier ones.

"You have to see them as a whole," says Fadi Hakura.

"You can't say, for example, that the verses of violence override the verses of peace. This is used a lot in the Middle East, this kind of ideology.

"I cannot impress enough how fundamental [this change] is."
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7264903.stm

Published: 2008/02/26 14:43:58 GMT

© BBC MMVIII
 

dianek

Junior Member
"The argument is that Islamic tradition has been gradually hijacked by various - often conservative - cultures, seeking to use the religion for various forms of social control"

I used to really believe that religion was created to make us feel better and to control us socially......according to this I wasn't too far off in my thinking. I understand the point made here. I have wondered, too, how hadiths that were written hundreds of years after Mohammad could be correctly linked to his sayings. Not dissing the hadiths as educational just questioning it's complete accuracy.

I don't know what to say.....the westerner in me says, Cool beans! But then my other side says, OUCH....this is going to start alot of arguement.
 

Imad

Junior Member
assalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh,

You have to know sister Dianek that we are supposed to correct misconceptions about islam. This is also the main aim of turntoislam. It has nothing to do with arguments. If someone is educated about a subject he will be abe to understand more and more.
I see most of the people who have problems with hadieth are the one who don't know so much about hadieth. There are some articles on this websites written about the study of chain/narration. You are not the one who has to do all this, because it has done for us by trustworthy scholars.

we really want to help people to broaden their way of hinking, thinking based upon firm knowledge instead of speculations.

That's why i advice brothers and sisters to gain knowledge/read information about a subject before creating conclusions.

i will post some information about the hadieth and i hope you will read it.

Thanks for reading

Wassalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh
 

dianek

Junior Member
assalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh,

You have to know sister Dianek that we are supposed to correct misconceptions about islam. This is also the main aim of turntoislam. It has nothing to do with arguments. If someone is educated about a subject he will be abe to understand more and more.
I see most of the people who have problems with hadieth are the one who don't know so much about hadieth. There are some articles on this websites written about the study of chain/narration. You are not the one who has to do all this, because it has done for us by trustworthy scholars.

we really want to help people to broaden their way of hinking, thinking based upon firm knowledge instead of speculations.

That's why i advice brothers and sisters to gain knowledge/read information about a subject before creating conclusions.

i will post some information about the hadieth and i hope you will read it.

Thanks for reading

Wassalamoelaikoem warahmatullahi wbarakatuh

I wasn't saying anything wrong with hadiths just that I had wondered at some point.....Please do not attack as though I was trying to be negative about it, I was not.
 

luv4theummah

Junior Member
Asalama halikum,

After reading this I became so angry, that we have come to a time we let the kufaars customise our own DEEN, For their own convenience.

I might not be very knowledgeable in hadiths, If two people read the same thing, it will have different meaning for them. So by this they will come up with their own ideas. We need to go back to the basics, follow the way of The prophet (may peace be upon him) and the companions. Look at the hadith the way they did.

The prophet (may peace be upon him) didn’t customise Islam, for the convenience of the Quraish. He didn’t had many followers in the beginning but stayed firm on his believe. If he didn’t we wouldn’t have our Deen.

We shouldn’t let the kufaars divide us, they manage to get away with a lot of things. Because our leaders are corrupt. How remembers 1924. I hope the time of khalifah will come back again very soon, it has been promised by the most high. The noor of Islam will shine again all over this planet.

Forgive me if i said anything wrong
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:+


"We must put an end to anything which brings about any Islamic unity between the sons of the Muslims. As we have already succeeded in finishing off the Khilafah, so we must ensure that there will never arise again unity for the Muslims, whether it be intellectual or cultural unity"
The British Foreign Minister addressing the British Prime Minister shortly before World War II.

"The situation now is that Turkey is dead and will never rise again, because we have destroyed it's moral strength, the Khilafah and Islam" Lord Curzon, British Foreign Minister, infront of the House of Commons after the Lausanne Treaty of July 24th 1924

wassalaam
jameel
 

Mohsin

abdu'Allah
Asslamu-alaikum,

First to my dear brother Jameel,
Ibn Taymiyyah says: "It is essential that we know that leadership is one of the most greatest obligations of Deen. As a matter of fact, there is no Deen without it. The children of Adam will not fulfil their needs unless they get together for their needs. And when they get together, they must have a leader. For this reason, the prophet (saw) says: "If three are travelling, there must be a leader amongst them." So, the prophet (saw) mandated that one is to be appointed as the leader in a simple situation where three people are travelling. This is to make us aware of other important types of get-togethers." [As-Siyasah As-Shar'iyah, p.138 & 139]
Now to the smart ass who wrote the article.

Are we going to learn and take Islam from Fadi Hakura and Felix Koerner ???
Does a patient treat the doctor ?
Does a monotheist take his religion from a polytheist ???

I just need to remind them that even Jesus told his followers not to take their religion from the polytheists but by the monotheist Jewish Scholars whom he himself considered corrupt, why ??? :rolleyes:
I tell you why, because when you shed off your basics and gets cut off from the roots then you get into wierd things and then even reformation can't help you.
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

:salam2:

This also brings an important topic to the forefront that anyone who is interested in knowing about the basics of HADITH should read the following thread.

The Science of Hadith, What Are Hadith?
 

Mabsoot

Amir
Staff member
I wasn't saying anything wrong with hadiths just that I had wondered at some point.....Please do not attack as though I was trying to be negative about it, I was not.

:salam2:

Its Okay, we are Muslim brothers and sisters here.

But your thinking is not correct. I mean, the hadith were KNOWN before they were compiled into any Hadith collection.

Often, people have incorrect ideas about Hadith authenticity, due to not knowing enough about the Science of Hadith and exactly what Hadith are, how they are compiled etc.

The Quran also, was formally written down in one complete piece after the Prophet :saw: by his Companions. This does not mean that there is anything missing or wrong. We know that it was memorised by many of his Companions. MAy Allah's peace and blessing be upon them all.

The scholars of Islam in the past, were geniouses. They made great advances in how we learn, how we teach etc. The Islamic lands were THE place for learning and study, whether it be in Science, Maths or of course in Islamic studies. - Many of the scholars at that time, excelled in memorisation. They knew not only the Quran, but tens of thousans of Hadith by memory.

articles about hadith

Islam is totally perfect. The only way to be a good Muslim is to follow Islam according to the Quran, and the Hadith with the understanding of the early Muslims.

When people do not do that, that is why we have extremism, terrorism, people abusing women and people wanting to change "Modernise" Islam. It is all due to ignorance and not following Islam properly.

wasalam
 
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