Refuting an Athiest

[ZainabMedina]

Asalamu Alaikum. Can someone help me please. A non muslim is trying to tell me Islam promotes the killing on non muslims/jews. This is their evidence:


"The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Hadith, Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985

It's actually a prediction of the coming Day of Judgement, you can read the whole thing here.


http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/...t.php#041.6985


"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Koran, Sura 9, verse 5
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_5

and

More available here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qur'an_and_violence

I know what they are saying is false but I am unsure on how to refute this. Can someone help me, and help me quick please. Jazakallah

 

[sclavus]

Praise be to Allah,


The wise scholars do not recommend arguing with atheists, because atheists themselves don't believe in atheism. They play the Emperor's New Clothes with themselves.

You can argue faith matters with Christians, Jews or gnostics but only if you have a mastery on Islaamic Monotheism. If you don't, I advise you to spend your valuable time learning those things instead of wasting it arguing with such miserable insignificant lying creeps.

Mind that it might be dangerous for you, you might be advised instead of giving advise...

Your time is your life, sister. You have to be careful with it.


:salam2:

 

[bari]

:salam2:
I agree with the brother. It is hard to talk with aethists, say a few words and move on. I learned the other day that Quran does ignore aethists. It is better to talk to christians, jews, pagans.

 

[Ershad]

Assalamu Alaikkum,

Sister, Here is an advice from my own experience. I have tried in past to put some sense into Atheists and so called "Libertarians" about Islam. It doesn't workout. Once you answer one question of them, they will ask one more question and it continues forever until you accept them. If you answer this question, they will next ask the issue of apostate in Islam. When you have answered everything, they will ludicrous questions like “If Allah is able to do all things, can He create another god like Himself?” or “Can He create something so heavy that He cannot lift it?”.

Qur'an and Islam is flawless. We are not here to answer their ludicrous questions. They are like bani Israel who kept asking questions to the Prophet SAW and Allah says when to stop ( check the video ). It is us who should be questioning the kafirs and mushriks not the other way. And Atheism is a bigger sin than Shirk and moreover illogical, ask them what existed before the big bang, they will tell you "anything or nothing" which is a stupid answer. They don't know the answer of that and they assume unscientifically (and they claim to be scientific) that God doesn't exist. Sister, don't waste your time answering them. More importantly, these are days of Dhul-Hijjah. So, increase your good deeds and leave the rest to Allah.

And Sister, Wikipedia is not an Islamic Reference. With respect to the hadith you point out, you will find your answers here -

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/1098

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/9341

and if you check in this :http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/21757 , it speaks of our attitude towards violence:

Our attitude must be clear; we must explain to the kuffaar the ruling of Islamic sharee’ah concerning harming and killing others. We should tell them that Islam forbids harming innocent people in any way, whether that involves harming their bodies, their wealth or their honour. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There should be neither harming nor reciprocating harm.” It is not permissible to kill a kaafir who is not hostile or who has a legitimate peace treaty with the Muslims; rather treating a non-hostile kaafir with kindness is part of the Islamic religion, especially if that is done to call him to Islam and soften his heart (towards Islam). Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion nor drove you out of your homes. Verily, Allaah loves those who deal with equity”[al-Mumtahinah 60:8]

At times of war against the kuffaar, it is not permissible for a Muslim to deliberately kill a kaafir child or woman who is not bearing arms against the Muslims or helping in the fight. It was narrated that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said to the Muslim army: “Go out in the name of Allaah and by the help of Allaah, following the way of the Messenger of Allaah. Do not kill any old man, infant, child or woman… spread goodness and do good, for Allaah loves those who do good.” (Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2614; its isnaad includes Khaalid ibn al-Faraz, of whom Ibn Hajar said in al-Taqreeb, he is maqbool (acceptable) i.e., if there are corroborating reports)

This is supported by the advice which Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) gave to the commander of his army: “I advise you of ten things: do not kill a woman, or a child, or any old person, or cut down any fruit trees…” (al-Muwatta’, 982, Kitaab al-Jihaad).

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Ask the person who is asking you questions to soften his/her heart. If he/she is really interested in learning Islam, then we can answer their questions. Till now, I have found atheists to be very arrogant people who look upon believers as fools. Ask them to humble themselves first, then we can answer their questions.

 

[strive-may-i]

Asalamu Alaikum. Can someone help me please. A non muslim is trying to tell me Islam promotes the killing on non muslims/jews. This is their evidence:


"The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Hadith, Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985

Below is from the site http://www.cmje.org/about/history/

Through such work, the need for an academic institution focused specifically on Muslim and Jewish history, culture, collaboration, and theology came to the fore. It is from this history of collaborative work, friendship, and partnership that the Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement was founded to respond to the challenges and needs of these specific communities. Today, the Center for Muslim-Jewish Engagement stands as the only institution of its kind in North America: an academic think tank, community resource, and international actor focused narrowly on the unique nexus of issues related to Muslim and Jewish engagement. Through engagement, communities can move beyond partnerships based solely on dialogue or conversations toward collaborative action.

Through CMJE, Muslims and Jews are laying foundations for the future by finding commonalities in their two traditions while also striving to move beyond commonalities to a moment where even the most profound differences are respected. Through our work, CMJE celebrates the unique histories and sacred heritage of Islam and Judaism and works to ensure that these two communities come together in the spirit of humanity regardless of mutual needs or aspirations but based solely on the sacred principles we all hold in common.

Now whats an atheist doing here? Center for Muslim Jew Engagement should be able to, hold its spirit high and clearly educate the atheist, I believe.

Dooms day and judgement day are part of a Muslims core belief. The signs of it, as prohesized have all become true and rest too will become true. Let him step back take past history, and judge honestly. The atheist, is just trying to divide, play mischief, he has no concern ... He is filtering to suit his argument. Prophet , Caliphs, Saladin, Many kings, and wait, wait, even in the holocaust, Muslims have treated Jews well...

And now lets look at the jewish state of Israel, the hatred running in Zionists is stronger than the surrounding countries, is it not?

 

[nyerekareem]

no one has really answered the brother's question. even if he doesn't go back to the atheist with the proper answer, the brother should still be informed of what the correct answer is. i think we should all know the answer to this question, especially when the hadith mentions killing. it seems like people responded in a way to avoid responding about the hadith mentioned.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

I missed something. Please educate me.

 

[John Smith]

Asalamu Alaikum. Can someone help me please. A non muslim is trying to tell me Islam promotes the killing on non muslims/jews. This is their evidence:

http://www.cmje.org/religious-texts/...t.php#041.6985


"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."
Koran, Sura 9, verse 5

I know what they are saying is false but I am unsure on how to refute this. Can someone help me, and help me quick please. Jazakallah

I think you must ask the questioner to read the surahs before and after the one you have quoted and look at the events at that particular time as to why that verse was revealed,its a common trick they use by cherry picking and mis qouting the quran.

For example in the surah above Allah Swt commands us to fight the pagans yet in the very same surah Allah Swt tells us to show mercy if they repent as Allah Swt is the most merciful,have you noticed how your friend did not ask you about the latter part of the surah?

Be mindfull as they will try to entrap you....may Allah Swt make it easy for all of us in the field of Dawah.

 

[abdul-aziz]

I think you must ask the questioner to read the surahs before and after the one you have quoted and look at the events at that particular time as to why that verse was revealed,its a common trick they use by cherry picking and mis qouting the quran.

For example in the surah above Allah Swt commands us to fight the pagans yet in the very same surah Allah Swt tells us to show mercy if they repent as Allah Swt is the most merciful,have you noticed how your friend did not ask you about the latter part of the surah?

Be mindfull as they will try to entrap you....may Allah Swt make it easy for all of us in the field of Dawah.

:salam2:

John Smith how dare you make such a sensible comment. Interestingly enough inspecting the Torah and Bible this way may cause such a huge exodus from monotheistic religions as well particularly by people who feel that Islam was invented and meant only for a certain people. I am glad with a name such as yours you understood the proper method of approaching this question. May Allah guide us all.

It is true in these series of ayat of surat at-tawba are stern orders by Allah for the prophet of Allah, PBUH, to take a firm position in dealing with a people who were torturing and treating muslims so badly. Surah At-tawba (9) is a very unique surah where it is the only surah that does not begin with bismillah arrahman arrahim. This highlights a position and general consensus among the scholars that the ending of the previous surah ( Al-anfal (8)) ties into these ayat in context and more or so as a continuation even though it is another surah. As you would find in surat Al-anfal there is much context and meaning instructing the prophet PBUH, on how to deal with war and battle situations.

All a person has to do is understand the context of the these ayat and they will know with clarity what they represent. Of course, there are people who totally reject hadith narrations and these are the very people who can never understand Islam and Muslims. The fact is the Quran is preserved and many many hadith have had such a strong link of narrators with many areas all defining what was said, experienced, and even understood and came from the prophet, PBUH. Therefore hadith carry much credibility and must be placed alongside the Quran to understand Islam.

Even from the point of listening to a recitor (educated in recitation of the Quran by known scholars) recite these ayat in a way that ties in with the general consensus of the scholars.

This all can be simplified and explained much better than I can possibly do with my limited knowledge just by posing the question to a scholar. Of coarse, there are many who raise these ridiculous and unfounded points of the Quran not to gain insight or seek answers but rather to make some noise and get paid.

Ayat 1-6 of Surat at-tawba is a Proclamation to dissolve the "Treaty of Hudaibiyah."

Commandment of Allah to honor the treaty so long as the unbelievers honor it. 9:[7-11]

If the unbelievers violate the treaty, then fight against their ringleaders. 9:[12-16]

....

more can be obtained from : http://understandquran.com/

in sha Allah


wa Allah ya'lam

 

[nyerekareem]

So what is the proper response to the above mentioned Hadith at the opening of the thread? I'm sure there may be a good reasoning to the Hadith, but we do have to admit that it is a Hadith that can make Islam appear to be violent.

 

[a_stranger]

So what is the proper response to the above mentioned Hadith at the opening of the thread? I'm sure there may be a good reasoning to the Hadith, but we do have to admit that it is a Hadith that can make Islam appear to be violent.

:salam2:

Please see the following link:
http://www.davidduke.com/general/mark-glenn-discusses-the-bloody-history-of-zionism_3627.html

 

[nyerekareem]

:salam2:

Please see the following link:
http://www.davidduke.com/general/mark-glenn-discusses-the-bloody-history-of-zionism_3627.html

Brother, I understand the brutality of the Israeli regime, but it still doesn't answer the question. Also I wouldn't use much of what David duke has to say. He is a well known racist, particularly against blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Catholics and Jews and was also a grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and he also isn't a friend of Muslims

 

[abdul-aziz]

Brother, I understand the brutality of the Israeli regime, but it still doesn't answer the question. Also I wouldn't use much of what David duke has to say. He is a well known racist, particularly against blacks, Hispanics, Asians, Catholics and Jews and was also a grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and he also isn't a friend of Muslims

:salam2:

Although I am familiar with hearing something similar to the mentioned hadith in the past. I am in no way to give you a complete answer. Is it violent, no, as the hadith was stated that at a time when there is so many Jews living with muslims through out the areas where there is a large number of muslims. Jews live among muslims in peace. Yet no harm came to them from these muslims, instead they were given rights just like anybody else. Is what you see happening today and was a result of muslims attacking jews? No, they(the Zionist not necessarily meaning a jew) forced the muslims out of Jeruselum with force of might, money, and politics. They had planned this event for a very long time.

It doesn't mean that they a true to how they present themselves. They strive master the behavioral sciences with respects to understanding human behavior is influenced by fulfilling their desires. In other words, they (Zionist) will subjugate a nation if they feel threatened or find financial value from it in a very discrete way.


Now a hadith can have different attributes with respects to time, meaning, and understanding. It doesn't suggest violence, but rather advises muslims of an event that will occur. It could be metaphorical as well. It is in no way telling muslims to attack jews but rather that there will be bloodshed among them. In Arabic, a phrase, Qaatiloo, means bloodshed, and the hadith translation posted is no way reflecting the meaning that I have heard in Arabic. In Arabic, I remember, it mentioned Qaatiloo. Sorry I have no time to confirm or validate this hadith translation.

However, what I do know about Islam and understanding Islam, every question gets answered with patience and time, in sha Allah. This is what I experienced. We must prevent ourselves from getting caught up on something that clearly not understood by ourselves nor explained by the people who dedicate their lives at a scholarly level studying Islam.

don't forget to ask Allah, subhanna wa ta3alla, for He is the know-er of all things past, present, and future.

wa Allah ya'lam

 

[a_stranger]

What i meant is that this burtality towards Palastines won t pass without any kind of Retaliation , and when muslems are sincere enough trees will talk .

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

First...the Quran and the hadeeth are true. They represent the Truth.

The hadeeth describes as many have pointed out a certain sign of the times to come. That which has been named by the Jew as belonging to him belongs to him, and will be loyal to him, regardless of the circumstances.

The Quran is explicitly describing the need not to fight during holy month. And if the need continues to extinguish evil than do so...however, the choice of becoming a believer is up to the individual..that is compassion.

Where does one find that compassion in the wars today? They simply drop bombs or they use chemicals or drones. The "enemy" is never given an opportunity to surrender or revert.

And atheist are boring..they are so arrogant they know it all.often it is better to hand an atheist a mirror and walk away.

 

[Perseveranze]

Asalamu Alaikum. Can someone help me please. A non muslim is trying to tell me Islam promotes the killing on non muslims/jews. This is their evidence:


"The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."
Hadith, Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985

There is more to this hadith, which states that the Jews and non-believers will start war with Muslims (including Isa(as)/Mahdi(as)).