Riba and Muslims in the West

riz_1982

Junior Member
:salam2:Today the economy of the whole world is interest based. It is very hard for the muslims especially living in the west to stay away from Riba or interest. But still that does not allow them to work with it. I see many Muslims financing cars and houses on an interest based loan. They say they have no other choice or else they would not be able to buy them. Aren't they failing a simple test from Allah.
In the Quran Allah clearly states that.
"O you who believe! Be afraid of Allaah and give up what remains (due to you) from riba (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers.
And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allaah and His Messenger . . ."

[al-Baqarah 2:278-279]

Hadeeth narrated by Jaabir, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who consumes riba, the one who gives it, the one who writes it down and the ones who witness it. He said: ‘They are all the same.’” (Reported by Muslim in his Saheeh, 2995).:wasalam:
 
Ya Allah!!! May Allah save us from it...

I wonder if some muslims take student loans and if so..are they interest free?

just curious

:salam2:
 

hijab_sister

ALLAH is in my heart
salam
nice post.
but these days u can hardly find any islamic bank in many countries.
n ppl call riba intrest now.
its hard to tell them that its haram.
may ALLAH guid us all aamin.
FI AMANILLAH
 

Faisal_01

Art is my Expression
Avoid it then

Easier said than done. Interest based loans is just something you are gonna have to understand to accept and cope with. I know its bad, and accepting it doesnt make it right but to be realistic...its just how the world works. I'm on student loan that is interest based. I have to pay for college somehow. Same with my car, even though its paid off.

:wasalam:
 

NAVEED

Junior Member
FIRM BELEIVER OF ISLAM, are you? you lay down your weapons so fast. A big noooooooo to interest in any form or shape. Just try doing it and Allah SWT creates means for you, and I have plenty of examples here in the west( UK ) fear only Allah SWT not poverty,hunger or other calamities, stay steadfast and reward is unthinkable.
Assalamoalikum
 
everything is interest based nowadays ...how can u escape it ...its impossible ...the whole world is using interest like taking money from IMF n this bank n that bank...its all interest based...in the end ull have to live with it that interest is everywhere nowadays
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Salaam,

You buy used cars in cash. You purchase only with cash. It can be done. You have to simplifly your life. You may not be able to purchase a fancy home but you can buy a home at an auction...and fix it up.
You can opt for a peoples bank or a union bank...you just have more homework to do.
It is simply a matter of making up your mind and doing it. It is difficult but that o.k.
Get rid of the credit cards..
 
Salaam,

You buy used cars in cash. You purchase only with cash. It can be done. You have to simplifly your life. You may not be able to purchase a fancy home but you can buy a home at an auction...and fix it up.
You can opt for a peoples bank or a union bank...you just have more homework to do.
It is simply a matter of making up your mind and doing it. It is difficult but that o.k.
Get rid of the credit cards..


well u can buy a new car in cash too...n why would some1 want to get rid of his credit card there so portable and safe unlike hard cash which can b taken during a robbery ....and i dont think we have the time to always go to the bank n make withdrawals for a small amount of money n if we withdraw a large sum of money we will have more chances of getting robbed
 

dianek

Junior Member
well u can buy a new car in cash too...n why would some1 want to get rid of his credit card there so portable and safe unlike hard cash which can b taken during a robbery ....and i dont think we have the time to always go to the bank n make withdrawals for a small amount of money n if we withdraw a large sum of money we will have more chances of getting robbed

There is no interest on your bank check or debit cards......don't need an interest bearing credit card unless you can pay it off each month to avoid the interest.
 

Nazihah

Be A Stranger
Assalamualaikum Brothers & Sisters,

Be careful with what you are saying here. Allah command us to give up on interest. This is not a ruling from a person but from Allah, your God, our God.

Listen, how about this. Why don't we inform the members here the banks or loan centres that is interest-free ? Some are not aware of such. InshaAllah, we can help one another in giving up riba.

I'll begin first.

If you are in Singapore, Maybank provides interest-free accounts. It is known as Islamic banking. I'm currently using it. My next stage is to get rid of (close) my previous bank account (interest based) which I'll do inshaAllah, tomorrow. :hijabi:
 

Faisal_01

Art is my Expression
FIRM BELEIVER OF ISLAM, are you? you lay down your weapons so fast. A big noooooooo to interest in any form or shape. Just try doing it and Allah SWT creates means for you, and I have plenty of examples here in the west( UK ) fear only Allah SWT not poverty,hunger or other calamities, stay steadfast and reward is unthinkable.
Assalamoalikum

Well good for you, but you live in the UK. I live in the US. I dont know how things work in UK but from the sounds of it, its much diffrent here.

:wasalam:
 
Salaam,

You buy used cars in cash. You purchase only with cash. It can be done. You have to simplifly your life. You may not be able to purchase a fancy home but you can buy a home at an auction...and fix it up.
You can opt for a peoples bank or a union bank...you just have more homework to do.
It is simply a matter of making up your mind and doing it. It is difficult but that o.k.
Get rid of the credit cards..

Salaamalikum,

You can actually have a credit card and pay the whole amount each billing cycle, so you won't be charged interest. However, for those who can't control their shopping avidity, credit cards can lead to long term debt and would you would be paying interest all your life. With credit cards, you have to have good self-control.

Someone else asked about student loans - as far as I am aware of, all college loans are interest based in the U.S.

May Allah swt make it easier for all us, amin.
 
Wall Street Journal

Why a Fund's Piety Is Now Paying Off
Islamic Principles Help
Amana Income Avoid
Banks, Other Risky Bets
By CAROLYN CUI
November 19, 2007; Page C1


The little-known mutual fund Amana Income Fund is one of this year's top performers. It can thank Islamic law for that.

The Amana fund is a specialized fund that invests based on Islamic religious principles. That means it must avoid, among other things, investing in banks or other firms that earn money by charging interest. Nor can it invest in companies carrying lots of debt.
[Nick Kaiser]

This year these restrictions are paying off. The fund, which seeks well-established companies paying dividends, has largely avoided the mortgage-related carnage hitting the markets since the summer. The Amana Income Fund has returned 13% since the start of this year, and is ranked in the top 2% of its category. With shares of many banks and brokerage houses having plunged amid concerns over losses on mortgage-related securities, the average stock income fund is up only 3.6%, according to fund tracker Lipper Inc.

"It's good that you don't have [banks and financial companies] in periods like this year," says Nicholas Kaiser of Saturna Capital Corp., Bellingham, Wash., which manages the Amana funds. "It's great to be out of it."

Indeed, most mutual funds that invest based on Islamic principles have largely weathered the recent credit turmoil. Two Islamic funds offered by Azzad Asset Management, smaller than the Amana and its $333.1 million of assets, also are beating the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index since the start of this year, after trailing the broad market for several years.

Dow Jones Islamic Fund is up 13.3% year to date, which ranks it in the top 4% of its category of large- market-capitalization stocks. The fund, managed by Allied Asset Advisors, tracks the Dow Jones Islamic Market Index, which is a product of Dow Jones & Co., publisher of The Wall Street Journal.

A sister Amana fund, Amana Growth Fund, isn't doing quite as well. The fund has $680 million of assets and invests in companies whose earnings are expected to rise faster than the broader market. It has returned 11.5% this year. While that beats the broader market, it still trails its growth-type peers by 1.4 percentage points.

Mr. Kaiser says the fund is basically looking for growth stocks that have such "value" characteristics as "reasonable" share price-to-earnings multiples, but this year the best performers were highflying stocks like Google Inc. "So some of our stocks didn't do well this year," he says.

Apart from financial stocks, Islamic funds, like other faith-based funds, also screen out so-called sin stocks, including alcohol, tobacco, gambling and weapons makers. They also must shun companies in pork-processing businesses and companies with a debt level higher or equal to 33%.

These rules eliminate from consideration about half of all the publicly traded stocks in the U.S. Out of the Russell 3000 Index -- which includes the 3,000 largest U.S. companies based on market capitalization and represents about 98% of U.S. stocks -- Amana has about 1,500 companies to choose from. By comparison, KLD Research & Analytics, a social-investing research firm, contains 2,100 stocks in its broad index.

Faith-based or socially conscious mutual funds -- there are numerous varieties -- tend to underperform the broader market. That is often because their blanket prohibition of certain sectors means they automatically rule out some good-performing stocks. At the same time, the added stock-picking research required by their social or religious criteria increases the cost of running such funds.

Amana funds have been a powerful rebuttal to this notion. In the past five years, both are among the top-returning funds in their respective categories, returning about 20% on an annualized basis.

Some of Amana's investment rules -- for instance, low turnover in buying and selling stocks, and aversion to debt -- make investing sense for long-term investors, says David Kathman, an analyst with Morningstar Inc.

Because of the low-debt restriction, Amana has found some good investments. Its growth fund started buying Washington Group International Inc., a construction firm, in January 2006 at $55 a share after Mr. Kaiser spotted its zero-debt level. "This looks good for us," he recalls saying. Amana recently sold the stock at $91.50 after the shares rallied on a takeover offer.

• The News: One of the top-performing mutual funds this year is Amana Income Fund, a little-known fund that adheres to Islamic principles.
• Behind the Scenes: Because Amana must avoid companies that earn money by charging interest or those with large debt loads, it has been largely spared fallout from the credit crunch.
• Bottom Line, for Now: Amana's returns belie the tendency of faith-based or socially conscious mutual funds to underperform the broader market.

The Islamic rules have helped Amana dodge some bullets. Enron Corp., which then fit growth-fund criteria, was ruled out from Amana Growth Fund's holdings -- before the scandal was exposed -- because its debt level exceeded the 33% threshold, Mr. Kaiser says.

Saturna Capital uses guidelines set up and endorsed by the Fiqh Council of North America, an organization of religious scholars dealing with issues concerning Muslims in North America.

Islamic law also forbids frequent trading of shares, since that is seen as a form of gambling. As a result, the turnover in the portfolios at Amana funds averages around just 10% each year, compared with 50% or more at a typical mutual fund. Lack of turnover is a contributor to performance, since shareholders are taxed for capital gains when managers sell stocks and make gains, and because of lower trading fees.

The 61-year-old Mr. Kaiser, who isn't Muslim himself, is concerned about the subprime spillover to his funds. As a big part of the U.S. economy "is based on home buying and loans -- that's going to drop off quite a bit," he says, leading people to cut consumption in retails and gasoline. "We have a lot of [those] stocks in our portfolios. If we have a major recession, I don't think we are immune from it just because we are not in those [financial] sectors," he said.

Amana's consistent performance appears to be attracting more non-Muslim investors. In the past 18 months, the two funds have increased from $288 million in assets to more than $1 billion combined. Of course, it is impossible to know for certain the religious persuasion of any given investor in a mutual fund, but by their names "we can pretty much tell they are non-Muslims," Mr. Kaiser says. "They just went for performance."
 

inam1971

Member
Today the economy of the whole world is interest based. It is very hard for the muslims especially living in the west to stay away from Riba or interest. But still that does not allow them to work with it. I see many Muslims financing cars and houses on an interest based loan. They say they have no other choice or else they would not be able to buy them. Aren't they failing a simple test from Allah.
In the Quran Allah clearly states that.
"O you who believe! Be afraid of Allaah and give up what remains (due to you) from riba (usury) (from now onward), if you are (really) believers.
And if you do not do it, then take a notice of war from Allaah and His Messenger . . ."

[al-Baqarah 2:278-279]

Hadeeth narrated by Jaabir, who said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) cursed the one who consumes riba, the one who gives it, the one who writes it down and the ones who witness it. He said: ‘They are all the same.’” (Reported by Muslim in his Saheeh, 2995).

:salam2:
Explicit post,
even though 80% of muslims in west deals with interest, take loans, personal credit lines :astag:, but most funny part that they want to buy Halal meat and then arrange for Dars-e-Quran & Hadith Halaqa's

The likeness of those who were entrusted with the (obligation of the) Taurat (Torah) (i.e to obey its commandments and to practise its legal laws), but who subsequently failed in those (obligations), is as the likness of a donkey who carries huge burdens of books (but understands nothing from them). How bad is the example (or the likeness) of people who deny the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah. And Allah guides not the people who are Zalimun (polytheists, wrong-doers, disbelievers, etc.) (Al-Jumu'ah 62:4)
 

riz_1982

Junior Member
Brother All you have to do is repent for what have been done uptill now. Seek refuge with Allah against the evil fitna of this era. For Allah is the most forgiving and merciful. Find ways that can save you from dealing in any forms of riba. If one thinks that there is no way than according to the Quran he is at war against Allah and His Messenger. Surely no muslim want that.

Well good for you, but you live in the UK. I live in the US. I dont know how things work in UK but from the sounds of it, its much diffrent here.

:wasalam:
 

Faisal_01

Art is my Expression
Brother All you have to do is repent for what have been done uptill now. Seek refuge with Allah against the evil fitna of this era. For Allah is the most forgiving and merciful. Find ways that can save you from dealing in any forms of riba. If one thinks that there is no way than according to the Quran he is at war against Allah and His Messenger. Surely no muslim want that.

I'm not in war with anyone and I would never allow myself to go against Allah(swt) and Muhammed(pbuh).

However fact is fact. I mean I really can't pay for college on my own. Nor can I pay for anything else that requires a lot of money straight up with cash.

This is why I am in college. Once I finish college and get my career going in the right path inshallah, I can then throw away loans. Because inshallah I'll have enough money then to pay for things interest free.

But for now its just something I'm gonna have to live with. I repent for it, because thats really what I an do now.

"No sacrifice, no victory"

:wasalam:
 
is it alrite if u get interest at different rates each month cause theres this muslim commercial bank here that does that n they have their own scholar who has suggested this....
 
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