Satanic Verses

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kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
So subtle that I didn't even know I was writing them!
I meant no insult to you or your beliefs. I thought that this forum aimed to correct common misconceptions about Islam. Surely this affair is one of the commonest, so it is understandable why I would bring it up.
I do not understand why it is that Muslims cannot bear their beliefs to be parodied, while other religions are much less sensitive. The Satanic Verses deals with a topic that many non-Muslims find persuasive. They are unlikely to believe the supernatural claims about the writing of the Qu'ran and would suspect that Muhammed wrote it himself based on the other Abrahamic holy books.
This clip of Rushdie reading from The Satanic Verses deals another widely held view that the some of the Qu'ran was written to justify Muhammed doing things that would otherwise be frowned upon in his society.
I don't know enough about this subject and I am interested to learn what Muslims think. That's why I asked the question.
[video=youtube;v20VvP19kCI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=v20VvP19kCI[/video]


Astaghfirullah!May Allah have mercy on us and forgive us,if the potty mouthed Salman Rushdie is referring to the companion Salman the Persian or Salman Al Farsi(radi allhu anhu),then here is his true story >> Salman The Persian
Salman Al Farisi[video/audio]

What he has written is a peice of fiction and has nothing to do with reality,as there is no such record from Salman Al Farsi(radi allhu anhu).It's amazing how he fabricated this story and how the audience is fooled into believing it is true without even investigating it.
It's obvious that this person hates to follow rules and wants to follow his desires ,as is obvious from his write.

The allegation of satan throwing in a verse is as baseless,
in The Biography of prophet :saw: in ArRaheeq al mkahtoum (The sealed nectar) this incident has been mentioned and the reason for the arising of various dhaeef(weak) and maudhoo(forged) narrations has also been provided,which people like to call "disagreement"there is no diasagreement that this is a forged incident.:
In Ramadan of the same year, the Prophet (Peace be upon him) went into the Holy Sanctuary where there was a large host of Quraish polytheists, including some notables and celebrities. Suddenly he began reciting Sûrah An-Najm (Chapter 41 — The Star). The awe-inspiring Words of Allâh descended unawares upon them and they immediately got stunned by them. It was the first time for them to be shocked by the truthful Revelation. It had formerly been the favourite trick of those people who wished to dishonour Revelation, not only not to listen to it themselves but also to talk loudly and insolently when it was being read, so that even the true listeners may not be able to hear. They used to think that they were drowning the Voice of Allâh; in fact, they were piling up misery for themselves, for Allâh's Voice can never be silenced, "And those who disbelieve say:"Listen not to this Qur'ân, and make noise in the midst of its (recitation) that you may overcome." [41:26].
When the unspeakably fascinating Words of Allâh came into direct contact with their hearts, they were entranced and got oblivious of the materialistic world around them and were caught in a state of full attentiveness to the Divine Words to such an extent that when the Prophet (Peace be upon him) reached the stormy heart-beating ending:
"So fall you down in prostration to Allâh and worship Him (Alone)." [53:62]

The idolaters, unconsciously and with full compliance, prostrated themselves in absolute god-fearing and stainless devotion. It was in fact the wonderful moment of the Truth that cleaved through the obdurate souls of the haughty and the attitude of the scoffers. They stood aghast when they perceived that Allâh's Words had conquered their hearts and done the same thing that they had been trying hard to annihilate and exterminate. Their co-polytheists who had not been present on the scene reproached and blamed them severely; consequently they began to fabricate lies and calumniate the Prophet (Peace be upon him) alleging that he had attached to their idols great veneration and ascribed to them the power of desirable intercession. All of these were desperate attempts made to establish an excusable justification for their prostrating themselves with the Prophet (Peace be upon him) on that day. Of course, this foolish and iniquitous slanderous behaviour was in line with their life-consecrated practice of telling lies and plot hatching.

Also refer to my previous posts where I have provided link for science of hadith and related topic to get a basic idea of how hadith has been preserved.Also read the replies of brothers and sister here,who have said how the incident is a fabrication,has been proved.




 

Townie

Junior Member
Of course The Satanic Verses is a work of fiction! Did you think that it was written as a history? It is one of Rushdie's novels; a novel is a fictitious prose narrative.
It is based on the story of the satanic verses of course, as are many works of fiction.
Could I ask, in what way is Hadith a science?
 

mohammadyunus

Junior Member
This is ramadhan. Please dont waste our time townie. Wherever you live, i am sure there is a mosque located nearby. Get in touch with a mufti there.May Allah guide you to truth.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
Of course The Satanic Verses is a work of fiction! Did you think that it was written as a history? It is one of Rushdie's novels; a novel is a fictitious prose narrative.
It is based on the story of the satanic verses of course, as are many works of fiction.
Could I ask, in what way is Hadith a science?

"When you know that satanic verses is a piece of fiction then how the question of it being the core matter to understanding Islam arise?"Story of satanic verses,is a story as well and the argument presented in it has already been refuted many times throughout the history.
If you wish to learn about hadith sciences visit those links I posted or visit this website http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/ or visit a nearby mosque and ask them about it or you can ask at www.assimalhakeem.net/contact
 

Abd_Al_Hadi

لبيك يا الله
It is based on the story of the satanic verses of course, as are many works of fiction

Another subtle insult to the Quran.


Can some Mod ban this idiot? Just for insulting our holy book, may Allah bring death in your family soon, so that you'll know how Powerful Allah is. Perhaps, it will help you convert to Islam.
 

Townie

Junior Member
Another subtle insult to the Quran.


Can some Mod ban this idiot? Just for insulting our holy book, may Allah bring death in your family soon, so that you'll know how Powerful Allah is. Perhaps, it will help you convert to Islam.

Where is the insult? The story of the satanic verses certainly exists, whether or not it is true. It is pretty easy to read a novel and distinguish it from an historical work.
Meanwhile your nasty threats to my family would be insulting if they weren't so pathetic. Is this how you choose to correct the common misconceptions about Islam?
 

Abd_Al_Hadi

لبيك يا الله
I'm finished with you. Go to sleep. Hopefully the Mods will get a chance to read what you wrote and ban you soon. Just because some people here kindly gave you attention, does not mean they're stupid. They're just naturally good people who generously give strangers the benefit of the doubt. But I, on the other hand, know your trick. You insult in a quiet way for your personal pleasure, then quickly change the subject as seen in almost every post you made.

and FYI, that was not a threat. It was a hope for something supernatural. Lets leave it to Allah, shall we?

Good bye and good riddance.
 

Abd_Al_Hadi

لبيك يا الله
And for the brothers and sisters who did not catch his/her latest insult:

"It is based on the story of the satanic verses of course, as are many works of fiction"

He/she pretty much stated that some author named Rushdie wrote a fiction novel based on the stories of the "satanic verses"--implying that the satanic verses are the verses from the Holy Quran. The kaffir went as far as to say "as are many works of fiction." He/She obviously meant, "Many fictional novels are based on the Quran (which he/she calls it satanic verses). Shame on Townie!
 

Townie

Junior Member
And for the brothers and sisters who did not catch his/her latest insult:

"It is based on the story of the satanic verses of course, as are many works of fiction"

He/she pretty much stated that some author named Rushdie wrote a fiction novel based on the stories of the "satanic verses"--implying that the satanic verses are the verses from the Holy Quran. The kaffir went as far as to say "as are many works of fiction." He/She obviously meant, "Many fictional novels are based on the Quran (which he/she calls it satanic verses). Shame on Townie!
Are you being intentionally thick?
I did not mean that many novels are based on the Qu'ran, nor did I imply that the satanic verses are verses from the Qu'ran.
I guess you are reading my posts this way because of some chip on your shoulder. I don't need another reply from you.
And by the way, if you cast your eyes to the left you will see that my gender is male, so you don't need to do the he/she thing, or was that intended as another insult? No, don't bother, I already know the answer...
 

muhammad sabri

Junior Member
Peace
Twonie i'll answer to both your questions, but first i want to tell you about this Rashdan, it is wel know that he's implied in sexual scandals and yes the low morality of a person describes to level of the ''work'' that he wrote ''satanic verses'', you said that the Queen etc aknowledged him as a great writer and man of literature..well i'll tell you what..i don't care at all because.. Hitler was considered a hero and a leader before he was shown for the real monster and filthy thing he was, in the same way this rashdan is not good or w.e just cause ''you highness or wethever you want says so'' so i'll answer the questions related to this:

first: islam doesn't allow the killing of a person because of what he/she writes but allows it only as an extreme sanction to an unjustifiable act of murder and i repeat : NON JUSTIFICABLE!
secondly: i noticed the relation with answering islam so i'll prove to you that the Quran cannot be word of satan and so confuting this so called salman writer: the bible says in mark 3:26 that the devil(from the latin diavolo that means The one who divides) cannot go against his own nature because if he would ''divide'' himslef he would be in contradictin with his being the devil so the devil cannot do any things good and pure cause it is not a DEVIL thing, now in the Quran a part from the many times in which Allah(or The God) says that the devil is evil we have the beginning of each sura(or chapter if you like) in which there is a statement that Allah(The God) orders the people to say, that is to say: I SEEK REFUGE IN ALLAH FROM THE DEVIL, THE ACCURSED ONE....just this is enough to disprove the whole hollybolly salman's ''book'' because the devil cannot go against his own nature, and therefore seeking refuge from himself and defining himself as accursed and therefore the devil cannot devilise himself(divide himself) and therefore it is impossible from any logical and reasonable point of view known by the official scientific method based on proof and analisys that with THE LEEMNTS GIVEN the Quran could ever possibly be the word of devil. IF YOU ANT TO DISCUSS WETHER IT IS A WORD OF GOD THAT IS ANOTHER ARGUMETN AND I CAN ANSWER THAT TO YOU, no probles but regarding the verses of the Quran being ''satanic'' it is the same as saying the earth is flat.
i hope it answered the questions and i hope the thread will become more ''respectfull' from both sides and when i say respectful i mean please not to take in argument the hallaballons Salman-hitlerian hero-sexualdeprived arguments any further for they have very well proven to be as valuable as dirt..and i ask the dirt to forgive me if i have offended it :) thank you

peace-
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
I don't think when you find a book trifled with abuses it can be considered as something academic.common sense. ne?

However, I don't understand how there can have been a disagreement about whether this incident happened or not,

Did you get point 3 I said over here: http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87484&p=569235&viewfull=1#post569235

and that maybe throws doubt on the contention that everything in the Qu'ran is the indisputable word of God.
What are your views on this?

So we are supposed to accept every false and fabricated information just because otherwise someone might feel we didn't do that simply that would "cast doubt in authenticity of Quran". *rolleyes* Indeed not a good assumption.

I came here to find out more about Islam and the Prophet. It seems to me that the 'Satanic Verses' issue is pretty fundamental to that understanding, that's why I asked the question.
This one was simply hilarious... LOL.


P.S Reminder: SITE RULES!!

................................

Just for insulting our holy book, may Allah bring death in your family soon, so that you'll know how Powerful Allah is. Perhaps, it will help you convert to Islam.
Asslamaliekum, Brother, What has his family to do with this? Please don't make such dua's...
& what if some member of his family happens to be a revert to Islam?
 

Abd_Al_Hadi

لبيك يا الله
Asslamaliekum, Brother, What has his family to do with this? Please don't make such dua's...
& what if some member of his family happens to be a revert to Islam?

Wa Aalaykum asalamu warahmatAllahu wabarakatu,

My sincere apologies you had to see the worst of me. I get angry when people insult our Quran, Prophet and sisters. Gheerah is an instinct
 

Townie

Junior Member
Peace
Twonie i'll answer to both your questions, but first i want to tell you about this Rashdan, it is wel know that he's implied in sexual scandals and yes the low morality of a person describes to level of the ''work'' that he wrote ''satanic verses'', you said that the Queen etc aknowledged him as a great writer and man of literature..well i'll tell you what..i don't care at all because.. Hitler was considered a hero and a leader before he was shown for the real monster and filthy thing he was, in the same way this rashdan is not good or w.e just cause ''you highness or wethever you want says so'' so i'll answer the questions related to this:

first: islam doesn't allow the killing of a person because of what he/she writes but allows it only as an extreme sanction to an unjustifiable act of murder and i repeat : NON JUSTIFICABLE!
secondly: i noticed the relation with answering islam so i'll prove to you that the Quran cannot be word of satan and so confuting this so called salman writer: the bible says in mark 3:26 that the devil(from the latin diavolo that means The one who divides) cannot go against his own nature because if he would ''divide'' himslef he would be in contradictin with his being the devil so the devil cannot do any things good and pure cause it is not a DEVIL thing, now in the Quran a part from the many times in which Allah(or The God) says that the devil is evil we have the beginning of each sura(or chapter if you like) in which there is a statement that Allah(The God) orders the people to say, that is to say: I SEEK REFUGE IN ALLAH FROM THE DEVIL, THE ACCURSED ONE....just this is enough to disprove the whole hollybolly salman's ''book'' because the devil cannot go against his own nature, and therefore seeking refuge from himself and defining himself as accursed and therefore the devil cannot devilise himself(divide himself) and therefore it is impossible from any logical and reasonable point of view known by the official scientific method based on proof and analisys that with THE LEEMNTS GIVEN the Quran could ever possibly be the word of devil. IF YOU ANT TO DISCUSS WETHER IT IS A WORD OF GOD THAT IS ANOTHER ARGUMETN AND I CAN ANSWER THAT TO YOU, no probles but regarding the verses of the Quran being ''satanic'' it is the same as saying the earth is flat.
i hope it answered the questions and i hope the thread will become more ''respectfull' from both sides and when i say respectful i mean please not to take in argument the hallaballons Salman-hitlerian hero-sexualdeprived arguments any further for they have very well proven to be as valuable as dirt..and i ask the dirt to forgive me if i have offended it :) thank you

peace-

Thank you for your reply, of course you have not offended me, I hope that I have caused no offence to you.
So the fatwa given against Rushdie was un-islamic? I didn't realise that and thank you for the information.
I understand that to accept the Qu'ran as the word of God is to also accept that the satanic verses could not have been uttered by Muhammed.
 

alf2

Islam is a way of life
I don't think that the quality of a man's writing is dependent on his morals or his actions. Salman Rushdie is a very respected writer, "Rushdie was appointed Commandeur dans Ordre des Arts et des Lettres of France in January 1999. In June 2007, Queen Elizabeth II dubbed him Knight Bachelor for his services to literature. In 2008, The Times ranked him thirteenth on its list of the fifty greatest British writers since 1945." (from his wikipedia entry). I have read several of his books, I don't consider Satanic Verses to be among his best.

I have read the Qur'an, but only in translation I'm afraid. I do not think that Satan had anything to do with the verses, but I am also not sure that this incident didn't happen.

Do you think that it is acceptable for a writer to be condemned to death for something he has written?

The book Twilight was featured in the Times. Whats your point?

And what the hell? Does he IMPLY that the Qur'an is Satanic? How could Shaytaan (ahudubillah) reveal such an amazing and beautiful book? I find this highly disrespectful and disgusting.

I feel you are just "trolling" us. In that case, please find something better to do with your time.
 

Itqan Ullah

Time is Running!!
I understand that to accept the Qu'ran as the word of God is to also accept that the satanic verses could not have been uttered by Muhammed.

So you are again indirectly implying the only reason we have to discard satanic verses is because it contradicts the quran?


Can you please stop trolling?
 

Townie

Junior Member
So you are again indirectly implying the only reason we have to discard satanic verses is because it contradicts the quran?


Can you please stop trolling?

Could you be a Muslim and believe that Muhammed uttered the satanic verses? I never questioned whether that was the case. I was more interested in your stance on Rushdie and whether he deserved a death sentence and I think I have this answer now.
Very impressive big writing though; were you shouting at me?
 

Townie

Junior Member
The book Twilight was featured in the Times. Whats your point?

And what the hell? Does he IMPLY that the Qur'an is Satanic? How could Shaytaan (ahudubillah) reveal such an amazing and beautiful book? I find this highly disrespectful and disgusting.

I feel you are just "trolling" us. In that case, please find something better to do with your time.
Not sure what you mean about 'Twilight', could you explain?
Rushdie embroidered an existing story, he didn't make it up. To quote from Wikipedia, "Narratives derived from hadith involving these verses can be read in, among other places, the biographies of Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd (who was a scribe of Waqidi), al-Tabarī, and Ibn Ishaq." I understand that some, though not all, of these biographers were respected.
 

kashif_nazeer

~~~Alhamdulillah~~~
Not sure what you mean about 'Twilight', could you explain?
Rushdie embroidered an existing story, he didn't make it up. To quote from Wikipedia, "Narratives derived from hadith involving these verses can be read in, among other places, the biographies of Muhammad by al-Wāqidī, Ibn Sa'd (who was a scribe of Waqidi), al-Tabarī, and Ibn Ishaq." I understand that some, though not all, of these biographers were respected.


All the biographers are respected(May Allah have mercy on them.Ameen),it's the narration or the anecdote that has been quoted are weak and/or fabricated,I don't know whether you understood the principle of classification of hadith.If not please refer to links that I have posted.
There were disclaimers at the beggining of Imam At Tabari('alyhirrahmah's) At Tareekh.
I shall likewise mention those (narrators) who came after them, giving additional information about them. I do this so that it can be clarified whose transmission (of traditions) is praised and whose information is transmitted, whose transmission is to be rejected and whose transmission is to be disregarded…The reader should know that with respect to all I have mentioned and made it a condition to set down in this book of mine, I rely upon traditions and reports which have been transmitted and which I attribute to their transmitters. I rely only very rarely upon (my own) rationality and internal thought processes. For no knowledge of the history of men of the past and of recent men and events is attainable by those who were not able to observe them and did not live in their time, except through information and transmission produced by informants and transmitters. This knowledge cannot be brought out by reason or produced by internal thought processes. This book of mine may contain some information mentioned by me on the authority of certain men of the past, which the reader may disapprove of and the listener may find detestable, because he can find nothing sound and no real meaning in it. In such cases, he should know that it is not my fault that such information comes to him, but the fault of someone who transmitted it to me. I have merely reported it as it was reported to me.


PS: The large font was to make sure you understood what is being said.

 

Townie

Junior Member
Again from Wikipedia... "It was said by the prominent Sunni scholar, Ahmad bin Hanbal in regards to Al-waqidi: "He is a liar." Other famous Sunni scholars like Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said in regards to Al-Waqidi's work: "His narrations are not retained, and their bane comes from him."
Writing in big letters is very helpful, thank you.
 
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