Satanic Verses

[Townie]

Are you serious? The very registration page gives the option to choose your religion from. And you have chosen Islam from that page. Or else, your profile would not show Islam as your religion. Looks like you tried to deceive us.

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/register.php

It didn't give me the option and I didn't choose Islam. Nothing I have written implies that I am a Muslim, in fact just the opposite. Looks like you are overly suspicious...

 

[Townie]

Townie,

There are people out there writing that the Talmud teaches hate, violence and pedophilia. If I was a Jew-hating idiot, I'd love to go around and rub it in Jews' faces. But I'm not an idiot. First of all, whether its true or not, that is not my concern. I have a life and a career and neither are effected by it. Second, if I'm really bored and I want to learn about Judaism, I would take classes being taught by Rabbis, and I'd visit synagogues to gain knowledge. After ensuring I've gained my proper education on Judaism, then yeah, I can go ahead and log into turn to judaism dot com and start having sophisticated conversations with Jewish members and I'd impress them with my knowledge.

Now lets say I'm a special ed student that takes the cheese bus to school. I'll probably want to google things like "naughty things in the Torah." Of course, there will be anti-Jewish websites that takes verses out of context and I'll be dumb enough to believe it. So I log in to turn to judaism dot com and giggle while I post what I just learned from some random blog. What I don't see, however, is that I'm actually showing the world what a ignorant moron I am.


Yeah, I may get a kick out of it for the first couple of days. But later on, I'd look back and see what a joke I was.



Don't be a joke, "Townie." Get your facts straight, then come back. At least have some dignity and self-respect.

Take it easy, I don't think you are a joke. I do think that taking part in discussions on an Islamic website is an acceptable way to talk to Muslims and find out what they think.
I'm not trying to upset anyone and I don't undertsand why you are so condescending.

 

[MeGladder]

It didn't give me the option and I didn't choose Islam. Nothing I have written implies that I am a Muslim, in fact just the opposite. Looks like you are overly suspicious...

That's not true. Registration page does give the option for choosing religion. And that false information from your profile did create confusion. Your post did not clarify that you are a non-Muslim. It rather showed that you do not have much knowledge about Islam. There are Muslims who are ignorant about their religion. But the comments that you were making only increased confusion. Now that it's clear, we can probably continue or move to next topic for discussion.

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

That's not true. Registration page does give the option for choosing religion. And that false information from your profile did create confusion. Your post did not clarify that you are a non-Muslim. It rather showed that you do not have much knowledge about Islam. There are Muslims who are ignorant about their religion. But the comments that you were making only increased confusion. Now that it's clear, we can probably continue or move to next topic for discussion.

Asalamo`Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuh,

Akh, may be he can given the benefit of doubt? He could have missed it. As far as I remember, townie never claimed to be a Muslim, or acted like one tbh.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

I don't think that the quality of a man's writing is dependent on his morals or his actions. Salman Rushdie is a very respected writer, "Rushdie was appointed Commandeur dans Ordre des Arts et des Lettres of France in January 1999. In June 2007, Queen Elizabeth II dubbed him Knight Bachelor for his services to literature. In 2008, The Times ranked him thirteenth on its list of the fifty greatest British writers since 1945." (from his wikipedia entry). I have read several of his books, I don't consider Satanic Verses to be among his best.

I have read the Qur'an, but only in translation I'm afraid. I do not think that Satan had anything to do with the verses, but I am also not sure that this incident didn't happen.

Do you think that it is acceptable for a writer to be condemned to death for something he has written?

It is not surprising, whenever a writer or any person write or say something against Islam, he or she will be an instant hero or heroine in the western bloc because of hatred towards Islam. These recognition do not improve his moral credibility anyway, if these recognition offered to me surely I will reject because it will place me as low as Salman. It is like giving an Olympic gold medal to someone proven had failed doping test.

In Islam, if you study science of hadith you will realise that Islam reject narrators who are found to be liars or have some moral issues. The narrators could have said something good but his credibility will be checked because he narrates something he claimed to be from the Prophet and God. If Salman written about religion not comics, so his moral background is important as most liars are morally misbehave. I hope you got my point.

I agree that a writer is free to write anything he wants, at the same time he is responsible for what he had written. You can write anything beneficial at TTI as soon as you said something create a ruckus here, the moderator has power to ban you. So same rules apply anywhere you are. If I come to your country then I broke your law, will you law enforcer give me medal? No they will charge me. Salman was a muslim, if I'm not wrong, knowing well the limits in Islam yet he challenged the limits, so excuse me, pls face the music. He deserve no medals.

If a writer wrote a lies and due to his lies two nations was at war, will you appreciate him and give away a medal for his writing? Hilarious isn't it? Now due to Salman, the divide between the west and Muslim world became wider. The differences become more serious. When asylum granted, Muslims are becoming suspicious to the west than ever before. Think about it before you appreciate him.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

It didn't give me the option and I didn't choose Islam. Nothing I have written implies that I am a Muslim, in fact just the opposite. Looks like you are overly suspicious...

I hope you are not a troll, I don't want to waste my time.

 

[Townie]

That's not true. Registration page does give the option for choosing religion. And that false information from your profile did create confusion. Your post did not clarify that you are a non-Muslim. It rather showed that you do not have much knowledge about Islam. There are Muslims who are ignorant about their religion. But the comments that you were making only increased confusion. Now that it's clear, we can probably continue or move to next topic for discussion.

I think you should bring this up with the hosts of the site. I didn't enter that I was a Muslim and you shouldn't accuse people of lying without proof.

 

[MeGladder]

I think you should bring this up with the hosts of the site. I didn't enter that I was a Muslim and you shouldn't accuse people of lying without proof.

I do not accuse someone of lying without proof. Anyone can log out and see whether the registration page contains the option of choosing religion or not.

If it happened due to carelessness, now it's clear....

And this is getting very off-topic. Either we continue discussing Satanic Verses in this thread or move to next topic....

 

[Townie]

I do not accuse someone of lying without proof. Anyone can log out and see whether the registration page contains the option of choosing religion or not.

If it happened due to carelessness, now it's clear....

And this is getting very off-topic. Either we continue discussing Satanic Verses in this thread or move to next topic....

You are accusing me of lying and I am not lying, nor was I careless. I was not asked to specify my religion during registration or at any time after. Once it was brought to my attention that my profile stated that I was a Muslim I amended it immediately. You are more than welcome to move elsewhere, but as you are wrong to accuse me I will have the last word.

 

[PeacefulHumanity]

Perhaps we can get back to the subject of the original post as that is why this user came here . . . no sense in wasting energy and time on something else in this thread.

 

[MeGladder]

You are accusing me of lying and I am not lying, nor was I careless. I was not asked to specify my religion during registration or at any time after. Once it was brought to my attention that my profile stated that I was a Muslim I amended it immediately. You are more than welcome to move elsewhere, but as you are wrong to accuse me I will have the last word.

Well, then it's up to individuals to go and see whether the registration page contains the option of choosing religion or not. This will decide who is wrong or right. And that's (hopefully) the last word from me here.

 

[Min-Fadhli-Rabii]

How Rushdie Fooled the West.​

[video=youtube;y7BjcLrck44]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7BjcLrck44&playnext=1&list=PL2D073C0B142F71DD&feature=results_main[/video]

 

[Townie]

Well, that was a waste of 10 minutes... Why did you post this ridiculous clip?
The introduction celebrated the banning of books and the restriction on Rushdie to travel.
The Chairman, rather than being unbiased, condemned Rushdie and called him Satan and also called his book obscene.
Luckily the clip stopped before the Sheikh could open his mouth, although I have a pretty good idea what he was going to say.
I am sure I am right to assume that this 'debate' had no-one arguing against. What a travesty; I would have thought that any straight thinking man or woman would be ashamed to be connected with it.

 

[Min-Fadhli-Rabii]

Hi Toenie,
Is it not you are already pre-judge before the main debate begins.

 

[Min-Fadhli-Rabii]

[video=youtube;q61xZX3xxUE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q61xZX3xxUE&feature=relmfu[/video]

 

[kashif_nazeer]

Hi,
I think brother ItqanUllah already gave an apt reply masha'Allah about the christian apologetic website and other related information to Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie.
Satanic verses is a book of fiction and has many obscene words in it.Straight from the gutter language of Mumbai India,to the f words widely used in the english vocabulry in the West nowadays.
The main issue of so called ,"satanic verse" is based on a hadith which is "maudhoo",which means "forged or fabricated".So that argument on which this peice of fiction is based in itself futile and baseless.In Islam we have a rigorous process of protecting hadith by hadith scholars ,hadith are divided into many categories,so that authentic ones are clear from unauthentic ones.Here is a brief introduction to >>Science of hadith by graphical representation[Link]
[h=1]A Brief History of Hadith Collection and Criticism[Link][/h]
No individual can kill an individual on any basis, the laws are passed by the state.The Islamic state which sadly doesn't exist anywhere in the world,carries out judgement based on evidences,in the light of Qur'an and Sunnah and then judgement is carried out as to what the sentence for the criminal is and whether the person is a criminal.

 

[strive-may-i]

I don't think that the quality of a man's writing is dependent on his morals or his actions. Salman Rushdie is a very respected writer,

This is where the differences begin. So he cant walk the talk err writing. In most part of world, that does not give any one respect. And if you ask, we will say he does all this for a living. Ask Rushdie himself... Agreed, in this day and age, death is not given unless its considered by the 'Powers of today' as war crime. A war crime victims head can be rolled to floor...
Stoic and averse. Thats what Townie,
Satanic verse and its author is all about. Rushdie is another case of Manufactured publicity. Its been thrown up again and again in this forum. This forum has much better deeper topics discussed, search the forum and you will get the answer.

Practically speaking, subhuman portrayals of a person and by extension a people can also have bad consequences, in a very immature world so full of hatred towards THOSE people. The 'other' were once Jews. Now it is Muslims. Are we free to say this? Respond with violence? Who has done that? Let us get some sense of proportion back into this whole thing about violence and provocations. Kindly note that Rushdie is alive and well (and may he continue to be and maybe then he shall be moved one day to express some sympathy for a million Iraqis who are dead for no fault of theirs)

From: Web

.
.

I have read the Qur'an, but only in translation I'm afraid. I do not think that Satan had anything to do with the verses, but I am also not sure that this incident didn't happen.

Response:
Personally, I thought it was a microcosm of the cognitive dissonance between the (relatively) privileged and the (relatively) oppressed. No category is absolute or impermeable, of course; to have death threats publicly uttered against you is an act of oppression. And yet, Salman Rushdie has lived in relative affluence, his physical safety ably defended by the nation-state of his choice.......And Salman Rushdie, defender of rapist Roman Polanski and U.S.'s war against Afghanistan, advocate of declaring Pakistan a terrorist state, and disparager of all post-colonial vernacular writing is hardly a poster child for the virtues of a self-righteously unrestricted tongue.
When I read the plot summary of the book now in preparation to writing this post, I was surprised by how much I had forgotten about the book. It was not terribly memorable, though in part that was the fault of having read it a trifle young, without literary context to grasp all the themes, or appreciate some of the nuances. What I do remember with vividness though, is reading, almost 10 years later, Martin Ling's biography of the Prophet Mohammad: His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, and being shocked by how much fantasy I had assumed to be fact due to unquestioningly accepting the Mahound narrative in Rushdie's book.............................. the anti-Muslim bigotry around me was insidious and pervasive enough so as to strip any such dignity or familiarity away from Mohammad.

From: web

.
.

(from his wikipedia entry). I have read .........

Response:
Rushdie has reported that he still receives a "sort of Valentine's card" from Iran each year on 14 February letting him know the country has not forgotten the vow to kill him. He said, "It's reached the point where it's a piece of rhetoric rather than a real threat."[43] Despite the threats on Rushdie, he has publicly said that his family has never been threatened and that his mother (who lived in Pakistan during the later years of her life) even received outpourings of support.[44]

A former bodyguard to Rushdie, Ron Evans, planned to publish a book recounting the behaviour of the author during the time he was in hiding. Evans claimed that Rushdie tried to profit financially from the fatwa and was suicidal, but Rushdie dismissed the book as a "bunch of lies" and took legal action against Ron Evans, his co-author and their publisher.[45] On 26 August 2008 Rushdie received an apology at the High Court in London from all three parties.[46] A memoir of his years of hiding, Joseph Anton, is due to be published 18 September 2012. Joseph Anton was Rushdie's secret alias.

International Guerillas
In 1990, soon after the publication of The Satanic Verses, a Pakistani film entitled International Gorillay (International Guerillas) was released that depicted Rushdie as plotting to cause the downfall of Pakistan by opening a chain of casinos and discos in the country. The film was popular with Pakistani audiences, and it "presents Rushdie as a Rambo-like figure pursued by four Pakistani guerrillas".[51] The British Board of Film Classification refused to allow it a certificate, as "it was felt that the portrayal of Rushdie might qualify as criminal libel, causing a breach of the peace as opposed to merely tarnishing his reputation."[52] This effectively prevented the release of the film in Britain. He later said, "If that film had been banned, it would have become the hottest video in town: everyone would have seen it".[52] While the film was a great hit in Pakistan, it went virtually unnoticed in the West.[52]

From : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie
(I found one section removed from wiki, interesting that section has been removed. It had a carefully worded response from Rushdie.)

.
.

And

It's the eternal fight - freedom of expression vs safeguarding the interests / sentiments of those harmed by an act committed freely but irresponsibly.
From: Web

Whats your say on wiki leaks founders extradition ? Who is champion of free speech?

.
.

What are your here for? Read Prophet life, you would benefit immensely.

 

[Townie]

I came here to find out more about Islam and the Prophet. It seems to me that the 'Satanic Verses' issue is pretty fundamental to that understanding, that's why I asked the question.
I think I understand more about your view of the book and its author, and I am heartened to find that no-one here seems to believe that Rushdie deserved to be killed for his writings.
However, I don't understand how there can have been a disagreement about whether this incident happened or not, and that maybe throws doubt on the contention that everything in the Qu'ran is the indisputable word of God.
What are your views on this?

 

[Abd_Al_Hadi]

...It seems to me that the 'Satanic Verses' issue is pretty fundamental to that understanding...

Anyone else notice the subtle insults? If I was a mod, I'd definitely ban this hooligan. The way he/she writes reminds me of a troublemaker that used to come on and off with new usernames in the past. Don't these people get bored eventually? I mean, did your mom take away your nintendo and you have nothing else to do but go around and insult people's religions? If your intentions are to insult Muslims and Islam, then May Allah curse your family for this pitiful upbringing.

 

[Townie]

Anyone else notice the subtle insults? If I was a mod, I'd definitely ban this hooligan. The way he/she writes reminds me of a troublemaker that used to come on and off with new usernames in the past. Don't these people get bored eventually? I mean, did your mom take away your nintendo and you have nothing else to do but go around and insult people's religions? If your intentions are to insult Muslims and Islam, then May Allah curse your family for this pitiful upbringing.

So subtle that I didn't even know I was writing them!
I meant no insult to you or your beliefs. I thought that this forum aimed to correct common misconceptions about Islam. Surely this affair is one of the commonest, so it is understandable why I would bring it up.
I do not understand why it is that Muslims cannot bear their beliefs to be parodied, while other religions are much less sensitive. The Satanic Verses deals with a topic that many non-Muslims find persuasive. They are unlikely to believe the supernatural claims about the writing of the Qu'ran and would suspect that Muhammed wrote it himself based on the other Abrahamic holy books.
This clip of Rushdie reading from The Satanic Verses deals another widely held view that the some of the Qu'ran was written to justify Muhammed doing things that would otherwise be frowned upon in his society.
I don't know enough about this subject and I am interested to learn what Muslims think. That's why I asked the question.
[video=youtube;v20VvP19kCI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=v20VvP19kCI[/video]