Separation of the genders in Islam

[DanyalSAC]

Asalaamu alaikum -

I am writing a paper about Virtual Reality and Islam and was trying to find something to back the separation of our genders but I can't find anything.

I can find no hadith and no Qur'an quote saying that our men and our women should be kept apart. I find that the believing men and women should lower their gaze but NOTHING saying that they can't eat together or sit together.

Can someone help me? Thank you!

 

[helpinghumanity]

Wa-alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah...

Last week we did a presentation on Google. Our last slide contained this picture. lol

Asalaamu alaikum -

I am writing a paper about Virtual Reality and Islam and was trying to find something to back the separation of our genders but I can't find anything.

I can find no hadith and no Qur'an quote saying that our men and our women should be kept apart. I find that the believing men and women should lower their gaze but NOTHING saying that they can't eat together or sit together.

Can someone help me? Thank you!

 

[DanyalSAC]

Wa-alaikumus salam wa rahmatullah...

Last week we did a presentation on Google. Our last slide contained this picture. lol

I have been using google, if you're implying otherwise. Most of what I am finding are anti-Islamic sites condemning the behavior and even a few Islamic sites that are doing the same thing.

Almost all of them are saying there is no CLEAR proof from Qur'an or sunnah to back it. Since I'm not a scholar and have no access to one I thought I would ask here.

 

[Janaan]

There's quite alot of useful info in the prophet(s'aws)'s bio..!

A lecture I was listening to awhile back pointed out that women, when walking on the streets, would not walk in the middle or the edges of the streets but rather keep close to the jidaar(walls)[or trees] that their Jalaabeeb would end up having marks/scratches all over it's side- They did this in order to not mix in with the men.

And the masjids(I think he specifically mention masjid-an-nabawiy), they would have 'seperate' doors for women and men- again, gender seperation.

Also, in another lecture, sheikh mention that the prophet used to have one day outta the week in particular, soley for the 'woman' and they'd spend time learning from him and asking him deen-related queries.

These are just what I have in mind, but I'm sure there's much more information out there..!

 

[DanyalSAC]

A few things that were pointed out to me:

Surat Al-‘Ahzab: (translation of the meaning) And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. This is apparently about the Prophet’s wives, not any wives in general.

Umm Salamah (May Allah be pleased with her) said that after Allah’s Messenger (May peace and blessings be upon him) said "as-Salamu ‘Alaykum wa Rahmatullah’ twice announcing the end of prayer, women would stand up and leave. He would stay for a while before leaving. Ibn Shihab said that he thought that the staying of the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) was in order for the women to be able to leave before the men who wanted to depart. (This was purely speculation on Ibn Shihab's part)

I am not trying to be incendiary or to start an argument. I'm asking for something concise and to the point (not vague or based on a Sahabah's opinion) that backs one of the most visible aspects of Islam - the separating men from women.

 

[alf2]

By virtual reality, do you mean the Internet?
I love this topic. Masha allah. May allah subhana wa ta ala grant you success.

 

[helpinghumanity]

Try

www.ISLAMQA.COM

(You should find an answer as I was able to do so)

In the search option type

Mixing of Men and Women

The wordings that you put in the search option means alot.

I have been using google, if you're implying otherwise. Most of what I am finding are anti-Islamic sites condemning the behavior and even a few Islamic sites that are doing the same thing.

Almost all of them are saying there is no CLEAR proof from Qur'an or sunnah to back it. Since I'm not a scholar and have no access to one I thought I would ask here.

 

[DanyalSAC]

By virtual reality, do you mean the Internet?
I love this topic. Masha allah. May allah subhana wa ta ala grant you success.

Yes and other things, for example the program "Second Life" which has a large Muslim population. My paper is going to discuss if virtual reality makes mingling easier for the genders, if it allows them to "bend the rules" a bit.

 

[DanyalSAC]

Try

www.ISLAMQA.COM

(You should find an answer as I was able to do so)

In the search option type

Mixing of Men and Women

The wordings that you put in the search option means alot.

I am not forcing anyone to help me; if you don't want to, don't. Lets leave the attitude behind. I'm about fed up to here with Muslims with attitude.

That being said

I have already looked at Islam Q&A and once again I see a lot of opinions and speculations.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,


I am going to post links as I find them.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124623737
And come not near to the unlawful sexual intercourse. Verily, it is a Fâhishah, and an evil way. (Al-Quran 33:32)

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: I did not see anything so resembling minor sins as what Abu Huraira said from the Prophet, who said, "Allah has written for the son of Adam his inevitable share of adultery whether he is aware of it or not: The adultery of the eye is the looking (at something which is sinful to look at), and the adultery of the tongue is to utter (what it is unlawful to utter), and the innerself wishes and longs for (adultery) and the private parts turn that into reality or refrain from submitting to the temptation." [Sahih Bukhari]

To the believing men:
And when you ask for anything you want, ask them from behind a screen; that is purer for your hearts and for their hearts. (Al-Quran 33:53)

To the believing women:
And stay in your houses, and do not display yourselves like that of the times of ignorance. (Al-Quran 33:33)

Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) who said,
"If a woman goes out of her home Shaytaan will attract attention to her presence." [At-Tirmidhi Saheeh]

The Prophet (sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam) also said that if a woman goes out of her home she "appears in the form of a shaytaan and she leaves in the form of shaytaan." [Muslim]

"A man is never alone with a woman except that Satan is the third." (Sahih Ahmad and Al-Tirmidhi)

As for the one who complains about the separation of sexes:
Narrated on the authority of Anas bin Malik, the Prophet (saw) said: When lewdness is a part of anything, it becomes defective; and when haya is a part of anything it becomes beautiful. (Tirmidhi)

The Prophet (saws) has said in one hadith, "When there is no haya left, then do as you please."

Malik b Uhaimir reported that he heard the Prophet (saw) saying that, "Allah (swt) will not accept any good deeds or worship of an immodest and vulgar person." We asked "Who is a vulgar and immodest person?" He replied, "A man who's wife entertains Ghair-mehram men."

"Every Deen has an innate character. The character of Islam is modesty (haya)." (Abu Dawood)

"Haya does not bring anything except good." (Bukhari)

The Prophet (saws) said: "Haya and Trustworthiness will be the first to go from this world; therefore keep asking Allah for them." (Baihaqi)

 

[helpinghumanity]

Akhi, by no means I am trying to show an Attitude.

May Allah save me and all of us from that disease.

If in any reply, it seems that I am showing an attitude then I apologize as it is completely unintentional. Virtual conversation does mislead to confusion. Let's forgive each other and think twice before writing a negative feedback about other fellow muslim Inshallah.

I am not forcing anyone to help me; if you don't want to, don't. Lets leave the attitude behind. I'm about fed up to here with Muslims with attitude.

That being said

I have already looked at Islam Q&A and once again I see a lot of opinions and speculations.

 

[DanyalSAC]

Assalaam walaikum,


I am going to post links as I find them.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124623737

Thank you sister - I remember reading about this issue, and even saw a photo of a group in prayer behind a female "imam".

 

[DanyalSAC]

Akhi, by no means I am trying to show an Attitude.

May Allah save me and all of us from that disease.

If in any reply, it seems that I am showing an attitude then I apologize as it is completely unintentional. Virtual conversation does mislead to confusion. Let's forgive each other and think twice before writing a negative feedback about other fellow muslim Inshallah.

Forgive me, when someone implies I am asking a dumb question I get defensive. Forgive me for jumping to conclusions. I've been burned many times on this site so I tend to come in with my dukes raised.

Forgive me akhi.

 

[Janaan]

But akhy, (concerning the ayah in Ahzaab) you can't just say 'this is for the prophet's wives only'- what the aayah says should be done today as well if we really want to be following in their(the sahaaba&sahaabiyaats and not to meantion the prophet(sa`ws)'s) footsteps. If you're a non-mahram and want to take something from a woman, take it without having to raise you gaze..

And let's take, for example, aayats # 14- 18 in soorat `alaq. These aayahs were directed to Abu Jahl, but does that mean it was for him only? Surely not. It applies to anyone who does what he(jahl) did- deny the haqq.

If ya wanted hadeeth for what I mentioned earlier: Ibn ‘Umar said that Allah’s Messenger (May peace and blessings be upon him) said: "We should leave this door (of the mosque) for women." Naafi’ said: "Ibn ‘Umar never again entered through that door until he died." (Abu Dawood No. 484 in "Kitab as-Salah"- Chapter: "at-Tashdid fi Thalik")

And, Abu Hurayrah said that the Prophet (May peace and blessings be upon him) said: ""The best of the men’s rows is the first and the worst is the last, and the best of the women’s rows is the last and the worst in the first." (Muslim No. 664)

For men, First row because it's farthest away from the women's(i.e last) and vice versa for women.

 

[DanyalSAC]

Bear in mind that I am not asking this for myself. I am Muslim and accept gender separation regardless. However, as I've said I am writing a paper and I need to present this to non-Muslims and I would like to have backing.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80144&highlight=gender+separation&page=2

 

[TheAuthenticBase]

Asalaamu alaikum -

I am writing a paper about Virtual Reality and Islam and was trying to find something to back the separation of our genders but I can't find anything.

I can find no hadith and no Qur'an quote saying that our men and our women should be kept apart. I find that the believing men and women should lower their gaze but NOTHING saying that they can't eat together or sit together.

Can someone help me? Thank you!

The separation of the sexes is mentioned in various ahaadeeth.

Take for example the hadeeth where the messenger of Allaah said ''order ur kids 2 pray at 7, punish them for it at 10, and separate them in their beds at 10''

likewise in the hadeeths about "the best row (in salaah) for men is the first, the worst row for men is the last, and the best row (in salaah) for women is the last, and the worst row for women is the first."

Furthermore, how the messenger of Allaah said "after salaah finishes, let us men wait till the women have gotten up and left" (or words to those effects)

Furthermore, how the messenger of Allaah ordered women to walk on the sides of the roads, not in the middle, and when the female companions heard of this, they used 2 walk on the sides of the roads to the extent that their jilbaabs used to scrape the walls...

if u go to my blog (http://TheAuthenticBase.Wordpress.Com) and under the "category" menu (on the right hand side, click on "killing the fitnah"... read the posts under that section inshaaAllaah...

u shud get nice info there...

wassalaamu 'alaykum.

 

[TheAuthenticBase]

Furthermore bro, you have the narration where the Prophet (saw) said "when there r two (a male and a female) then the third os the devil."

Also we have the hadeeth where he (saw) said: "a womans salaah is best in her home." indicating the separation of sexes.

And then we have the tons of narrations which indicate to a woman observing the hijaab. and the purpose of which is to limit the intermingling. As intermingling arouses the desires, and when a woman is not in proper hijaab, then the desires are also aroused (increased).

from the hadeeths on hijaab we have the ayahs like ''be not soft in speech", and "and stay in your houses, that is purer for you", and "And draw your jilbaabs over yourselves", and "do not stamp your feet so as to reveal the adornments you hide", and there are others...

these^ are just what i can think of from the top of my head...

 

[TheAuthenticBase]

A few things that were pointed out to me:

Surat Al-‘Ahzab: (translation of the meaning) And when you ask [his wives] for something, ask them from behind a partition. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts. This is apparently about the Prophet’s wives, not any wives in general.

No disrespect akhi, but thats a wrong claim to make...(underlined)

bcz the hadeth claerly says it is "purer for your hearts and their hearts" and if they (the best women - prophet's wifes') are in need to purify themselves, then so are we....

also, as they (his wives) are our role models, women of this age need to do the same...

this^ has clearly been stated by all scholars of tafseer whom i have read about...

unfortunately when you mentioned is a common misconception amongst the masses of muslims...

 

[TheAuthenticBase]

Thank you sister - I remember reading about this issue, and even saw a photo of a group in prayer behind a female "imam".

her name was aaminah wadood, and she contradicted a whole ummah. A opinion that stems from ignorance and lack of scholarly research, i say this not to cuss her but as a fact, as i read articles beautifully refuting her.

plus, her act doe snot constitue as proof, as otherwise we may as well say that smoking is allowed as some imaams do it...