Shia/ Sunni Distinction in Practice

[HappyMuslimah]

:salam2:

As Muslims, we all know we're not supposed to seperate ourselves into sects.But having recently spoken to a Shia friend, I am confused about the following issues, any thoughts please?

1) some Shia believe that combining the five prayers into three is acceptable (they read all five, but read Zuhr and Asr together and Maghrib and Isha together). Whats this belief based on and does it actually have substance?

2) My friend condemns me for not believing in the 12 Imams (I am Sunni). I responded that we hold them in high esteem and surely the label of '12 imams' is irrelevent? She disagrees. I am confused. Help?

 

[Salem9022]

:salam2:

As Muslims, we all know we're not supposed to seperate ourselves into sects.But having recently spoken to a Shia friend, I am confused about the following issues, any thoughts please?

1) some Shia believe that combining the five prayers into three is acceptable (they read all five, but read Zuhr and Asr together and Maghrib and Isha together). Whats this belief based on and does it actually have substance?

2) My friend condemns me for not believing in the 12 Imams (I am Sunni). I responded that we hold them in high esteem and surely the label of '12 imams' is irrelevent? She disagrees. I am confused. Help?

You should keep away from your friend especially if she is trying to convert you to Shiaism. The difference between us Muslims and Shias is in Tawheed - In the belief of Allah. Shias believe Allahs name and attributes can be Manifested through the Blood Line which they call "Imamaats". According to them the Holy Blood Line carries Allahs attributes like All-knowing, All-Seeing, etc. And they attribute this "Holy Blood" Line to the Prophets Family through Ali and Fatima. They believe in Shirk and the worship of Imams and Saints since they believe they are holy.

 

[al-muslimah]

MashAllah brother Salem9022 is always there for these kinda topics.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

As Muslims, we all know we're not supposed to seperate ourselves into sects.But having recently spoken to a Shia friend, I am confused about the following issues, any thoughts please?

1) some Shia believe that combining the five prayers into three is acceptable (they read all five, but read Zuhr and Asr together and Maghrib and Isha together). Whats this belief based on and does it actually have substance?

:salam2:

They have no basis for this. In order to support their claims, they 'fabricate' hadeeths and deem the noble Sahabas RadiAllahu Anhum Ajmaeen as 'disbelievers'. And there is nothing wrong in lying or hiding information in their religion (takeeya).

2) My friend condemns me for not believing in the 12 Imams (I am Sunni). I responded that we hold them in high esteem and surely the label of '12 imams' is irrelevent? She disagrees. I am confused. Help?

If these 12 imams were good and pious muslims, they would followed the Sunnah of Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam closely. In other words, they would have been excellent 'Sunnis'. You should tell your friend if she loves & wants to follow the family of the Prophet SallAllahu Alleihi Wa Sallam, then she would find so much happiness in following Islam the pure and right way, which is 'Sunni' or 'Ahl us Sunnah Wal Jama'a'.

Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[al-muslimah]

Brother but you have to bare in mind that there are more than one sect in Shiasim itself.

In my opinion I think I should second what bro Salem said about keeping away from her..Well..it's because you are not educated enough about Shias..You won't be able to answer back on what your friend is saying. My suggestion is to read, read and read..There are many topics here in TTI that will help.

Best of luck.

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

^^ Was that directed at me ?

And yes, you shouldn't take any religious knowledge from her or listen to her ideas/thoughts about Islam. If you are able to, then you should invite her to return back to Quran and Sunnah & show the false ways of the Shias.

May Allah subhaanaho waa taala guide us all. Ameen

Wasalaamalaykum

 

[kayleigh]

Regarding the prayers, I seem to remember a Shia friend giving me some info on that... If I remember correctly, what they do is take hadith that are about shortening or combining the prayer for traveling and say that it applies to every day. I'm not 100% sure though.

She has her beliefs and you have yours. There's no reason why you can't be her friend, but don't take religious guidance or advice from her. My advice is that you just don't talk about religion with her if it confuses you or causes the two of you to argue. There are plenty of other things you can talk about or things you can go out and do together.

 

[weakslave]

Regarding the prayers, I seem to remember a Shia friend giving me some info on that... If I remember correctly, what they do is take hadith that are about shortening or combining the prayer for traveling and say that it applies to every day. I'm not 100% sure though.

While we have this in our aqeedah, except that is a weak and invalid excuse on their part. The real reason for this is they wish to be different from Sunnis. The Shia scholars are known to fabricate ahadeeth and claim sources which do not exist. I have a book explaining the Shia aqeedah from a respected Shia scholar and several times he refers to ahadeeth in Sahih Bukhari, but if you were to look up those ahadeeth they do not exist.

Shi'is have an agenda, and they have chosen for themselves to believe in their corrupt scholars rather than authentic hadith opinions. Majority of Shi'as are just like the majority of Muslims, they know very little about their religion. And what they do know they lie about anyways.

 

[HappyMuslimah]

Majority of Shi'as are just like the majority of Muslims, they know very little about their religion. And what they do know they lie about anyways.

Brother, I concur wholeheartedly but get called a cynic when I voice this opinion lol.

Thanks to everyone who responded - its been really enlightening. I don't know a lot about Shiaism as most of my reading is of Sunni texts. InshAllah, I will do some wider reading and expand my knowledge. If anyone wants to give me a crash course, please PM me or PM if you can recommend any books please lol. Thanks. Hope Allah swt keeps you all in the best of imaan.

 

[Asja]

You should keep away from your friend especially if she is trying to convert you to Shiaism. The difference between us Muslims and Shias is in Tawheed - In the belief of Allah. Shias believe Allahs name and attributes can be Manifested through the Blood Line which they call "Imamaats". According to them the Holy Blood Line carries Allahs attributes like All-knowing, All-Seeing, etc. And they attribute this "Holy Blood" Line to the Prophets Family through Ali and Fatima. They believe in Shirk and the worship of Imams and Saints since they believe they are holy.

Assalamu Allaicum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuhu

Dear sister "HappyMuslimah" before learning about wrong teachings of some sects that unfortunately exist today, you should first try to learn as much as you can about the right message of Islam according to Quran and Sunnah, do as much as reading you can becouse on that way Inshallah you will be able to pass your knowledge on everyone who asks you a question regarding it and you will be able to correct their mistakes, in this case to corect the knowledge that your sister friend has.

The reason why I have quoted the post of brother Salem is his advice of "keeping away from your friend". MashaAllah his intentions are only for the sake of good and sometimes there are situations when one after hard working and even with still strong wish to help has no other option but to "turn away" . But before doing that I want to remaind us which are our duties as Muslims toward eachothers and to share more on this subject.

We all know that as Ummah we have responsability toward eachothers, what means that our duty is to help, guide eachothers and to be patient on that way as we will face many obstacles, sometimes we will think on giving up but we must not forget when Allah sais in Quran :"And believers are helpers to each others".

Why our Ummah, which is like one body, society of Muslims is so much important, sometimes maybe even more important then individual about what are witnesseing words of Allah when He sais: "You are the best of all the people who have ever appeared( ...)".

The verse is proof that the Islamic Ummah is absolutely the most valuable of all Ummahs. The first and last generations of this Ummah are together involved in this qualification, although the Companions (companions of our Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s have the advantage over other members of the Ummah. Allah has made this Ummah most useful to people as He is ordereing us well, rejecting the evil and fighting against it.

We can not and must not turn away from the one who is in need of us before offering him our help, our hand and before asking Allah to help us in guideing the one who is on the wrong path.

Prophet Mohammad s.a.w.s. said: "The best man is the one that is most useful to people, and the worst man is one who is most harmful to people."

Prophet Mohammed s.a.w.s. also said : "When one of you sees wrong deed change it with hand, if you can not then change it with your tongue, and if you can not change it even with tongue, then with your heart, and this is the weakest of iman."

Allah sais in Quran :"...but help ye one another unto righteousness and pious duty. Help not one another unto sin and transgression, but keep your duty to Allah..." (Al Maeda, 2).

Doing good means adviceing other to do the same, makeing easier the way that leads to good and supressing wrong deeds and enmity as much as one can.
Therefore, believers should order good, alienate themselves from evil and do not forget on themselves and their deeds.

Allah sais in Quran :"And the believers, men and women, are protecting friends one of another; they enjoin the right and forbid the wrong.." (Al Tawba 71), so that believers are described as those who ordereing good and forbideing evil.

When one of us wants to order good he should strengthen the patience and hope for Allah's reward. A person who is confident of Allah's reward will not feel the pain, the insults and inconveniences that may come to him from the one to who he commands good.

May Allah guide us all.Ameen

Wa allaicumu Sallam wa rahamtullah wa barakatuhu

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

Nice post, sister Asja.

 

[Tariq Rahman]

Assalamu alaikum WRWB (May Allah (SWT) blessings & mercy be on all of you)

Very nice post Asja may Allah (SWT) reward you for this Ameen! also brother Salem's knowledge is helpful for understanding Shias believes but I agree keeping away is no solution as we are the Ummah of Muhammed (SAW) and we have duties & responsibilities not only towards our muslim brothers & sisters but also towards non-believers to pass on the beautiful message of Islam for peace & love (May Allah (SWT) give all of us strength and understanding to perform our duties perfectly Ameen!) we as a Ummah needs to understand our responsibilities and not only talking but put them in our actions it is clearly said several times in Quran to follow the Sunnah of our beloved Prophet Muhammed (SAW). May Allah (SWT) guide us all to be true Ummati of Muhammed (SAW) Ameen!

Jazak Allah Khair..
May Allah (SWT) forgive all our mistakes/sins and guide us to the straight path, the path of those who have received his grace & mercy Ameen!

 

[Shishani]

Assalaamu alaykum.

There are many topics about the Shee'ah, may Allaah guide them.

Here is a great site about Shia beliefs: http://www.ahlelbayt.com/

Some articles:
Information about the Shi’ah http://islamqa.com/en/ref/97448
Fundamental Shi'ite Beliefs http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67394
The status of the imams of the Twelver Shi’ah http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66645

Lectures:
playlist http://www.youtube.com/user/ChechenMaga#g/c/4210F0081FBE69DC

Questions That Led The Shia To The Truth (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
ORIGINATOR of the SHIA sect Abdullah bin Saba THE JEW (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
Historical accounts of the Rejectionist shia (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
Shi'ite's Creed & Doctrine (Dr. Abdul Rahman Dimashqiah)

 

[Asja]

:salam2:

Nice post, sister Asja.

Assalamu alaikum WRWB (May Allah (SWT) blessings & mercy be on all of you)

Very nice post Asja may Allah (SWT) reward you for this Ameen!

Assalaamu alaykum.

There are many topics about the Shee'ah, may Allaah guide them.

Here is a great site about Shia beliefs: http://www.ahlelbayt.com/

Some articles:
Information about the Shi’ah http://islamqa.com/en/ref/97448
Fundamental Shi'ite Beliefs http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67394
The status of the imams of the Twelver Shi’ah http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66645

Lectures:
playlist http://www.youtube.com/user/ChechenMaga#g/c/4210F0081FBE69DC

Questions That Led The Shia To The Truth (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
ORIGINATOR of the SHIA sect Abdullah bin Saba THE JEW (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
Historical accounts of the Rejectionist shia (Dr. Saleh as-Saleh)
Shi'ite's Creed & Doctrine (Dr. Abdul Rahman Dimashqiah)

Baarak Alah feekhum dear brothers " Thariq Rahman" and " Brother in Islaam". May Allah reword us all for trying to show the real Islaam and guide each others. ameen summa ameen

I agree with brother " ChechenMaga", that there are many threads about " Shias" and thier misgudiance, which is good Alhamdulillah that these threads exist, but I think there should be also threads which will help us how to advice them, and how to aproach them when giving Dawah about truthfull Islaam, Inshallah. Because the main problem with which everyone faces is not knowing the truth practise of Islam, althugh there are cases like that also, but not being able to find the right way and the most suitable aproaching when dealing with them and passing them the message, as many cases happens that many of us give up on small obstacules which we may face.

May Allah help us and guide us all.

Wa allaicumu salam wa raahmatullah wa barakatuhu

 

[Tariq Rahman]

Assalamu alaikum WRWB (May Allah (SWT) blessings & mercy be on all of you)

Agreed brothers they should be a thread where we can advice them and share the "Sunnah" of Muhammed (SAW) but the reason I think this is been avoided may be because in such threads there is much argument than understanding but if we all control our emotions and make only advice, share authentic hadith I'm sure we can explain them the straight path. May Allah (SWT) keep us all in proper Iman Ameen!

Jazak Allah Khair..
May Allah (SWT) forgive all our mistakes/sins and guide us to the straight path, the path of those who have received his grace & mercy Ameen!

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

:salam2:wa rahmatuallhi wa barakatuhu....

jazakallah khairan kaseera sister asja.i usually donot indulge into such shia sunni discussions(meaning when it comes to see which one of us is the best one)but i am impressed by what you said.may ALLAH bless you endlessly...

my opnion about shias is tht they are a very deviated sort of group and have the power of deviating others but i still consider them our muslim family and a part of the ummah.with this said i believe that like one helps his family and protects him from any harm,we should try our level best with them too.we should try to turn them back to the right path and protect them and us all from hellfire for that's the real protection and achievement.but sadly these days the moment one mentions shia specifcally iran(where their are shias whose faith and practice is almost similar to ours) their muslim family turns away from them sharing tonns of hatred...

if for once we should try to reduce these division and for this we have to stop these distinctions as shia,sunni etc.shiekh Muhammad ibn Salih al-`Uthaymeen gves wonderful advice here(it's only takes 1.5 minutes to read it):

بِسۡمِ ٱللهِ ٱلرَّحۡمَـٰنِ ٱلرَّحِيمِ​

Leave Sectarianism
Shaykh Muhammad ibn Salih al-`Uthaymeen




Here is the kalam of Shaykh Uthaymeen, transcribed, by a brother from Madeenah, from the taped lecture "Úáíßã ÈÇáÓäÉ" that was delivered during this summer’s dawrah in Unayzah. The tape is part of his Sharh of An-Nawawi's 40 hadeeth, in the sharh of the hadeeth of Irbaad ibn Saariyah (no.28). The brother has also provided a quick translation [slightly modified].







From his [the Prophet](salalahu aleihim wa salam ) statement,

"Whoever lives amongst you will see much differing, so adhere to my Sunnah",

It can be learnt that if parties (ahzaab) within the ummah emerge in increasing numbers then one should not affiliate himself to a party (hizb). In the past, many groups have appeared; Khawaarij, Mu'tazilah, Jahmiyyah, Shee'ah, even Raafidah. Then there appeared, later on Ikhwanis, Salafis, Tablighis, and all those like them. Put all of them to one side and take [the path] ahead. Which is what the Prophet salalahu aleihim wa salam guided to. "Adhere to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the rightly guided caliphs." No doubt, it is obligatory for all Muslims to adopt the way of the salaf as their madhhab, not affiliation to a specific party (hizb) named, "The Salafis". It is obligatory for the Islamic Ummah to adopt the way of the salaf as-salih as their madhhab, not bigotry to those called "the salafis". Pay attention to the difference: There is the way of the salaf, and there is a party (hizb) called "the salafis".

What is the objective? Following the Salaf. Why? The salafi brothers are the closest sect to that which is right, no doubt, but their problem is the same as others, that some of these sects declare others as being misguided, they declare them to be innovators and as being sinners. We don't censure this, if they deserve it, but we censure handling this bid'ah in this way. It is obligatory for the leaders of these sects to get together and say, “Between us is the book of Allah, and the Sunnah of His messenger, so lets us judge by them and not according to desires, opinions and not according to personalities. Everyone makes mistakes and achieves correctness no matter what he has reached with regards to knowledge and worship. Infallibility is [only] in the religion of Islam."

In this hadeeth the Prophet salalahu aleihim wa salam guided to the way in which a person secures himself. He doesn't affiliate him to any sect, only the way of the salaf as-salih, to the Sunnah of our Prophet salalahu aleihim wa salam and the rightly guided caliphs.

sorry sister HappyMuslimah kind of off topic but i thought i'd say!!!

jazakallah khairan

this is in no way intended to start an argument inshallah.


wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

@ Sister Seeking Allah's Mercy.

:salam2:

I thank you for reminding us the dangers of sectarianism with that piece. Jazaki Allahu Khayran

However, I would like to comment that the quoted article is not asking to unite with people who don't have proper Aqeedah nor with those who don't follow authentic Hadeeth. Infact, great modern day scholars like Sh Uthaymeen (May Allah have mercy on him) actively made Dawah towards correcting our Aqeedah (which includes proper interpretation of tawheed) and adherence to the Sunnah of Prophet SallAllahu alleihi Wa Sallam.

What the sheykh was pointing out was to be tolerant towards the 'accepted differences' in small fiqh issues (among Ahl Us Sunnah Wal Jama'a ofcourse), where one or more opinions are held by scholars (both having legitimate derivation from authentic narrations/sources). This is because few people unfortunately 'go hunting' in trying to find 'so called' mistakes and then labeling a person as a 'person of desires' or a 'person of bidah'. This develops lot of fitnah in the society & the unity and brotherhood is weakened in the society.

However, with respect to the Shias. How can we tolerate these people who curse the Sahabas, the Prophet's wives ? who abandon authentic Sunnah and have incorrect understanding of Tawheed ? (among many other deviations).

This is not acceptable difference, rather it is a form of heresy. We have to actively do/support dawah to these people, as many are ignorant about basics of Islam.

I hope this made some sense. Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

 

[Seeking Allah's Mercy]

@ Sister Seeking Allah's Mercy.

:salam2:

I thank you for reminding us the dangers of sectarianism with that piece. Jazaki Allahu Khayran

However, I would like to comment that the quoted article is not asking to unite with people who don't have proper Aqeedah nor with those who don't follow authentic Hadeeth. Infact, great modern day scholars like Sh Uthaymeen (May Allah have mercy on him) actively made Dawah towards correcting our Aqeedah (which includes proper interpretation of tawheed) and adherence to the Sunnah of Prophet SallAllahu alleihi Wa Sallam.

wa rahmatullahi wabrakatuhu

barakallah fik i'm angry at you!!
and was i saying any different akhi????did i not say that instead of turning our backs on them with pure hate and calling them kaffirs when we don't have the right or the authority is wrong and that we should try our level best to give dawah/islah to them.and i don't remember mentioning unity(like come!! me with you lets curse the ashab!!)

What the sheykh was pointing out was to be tolerant towards the 'accepted differences' in small fiqh issues (among Ahl Us Sunnah Wal Jama'a ofcourse), where one or more opinions are held by scholars (both having legitimate derivation from authentic narrations/sources). This is because few people unfortunately 'go hunting' in trying to find 'so called' mistakes and then labeling a person as a 'person of desires' or a 'person of bidah'. This develops lot of fitnah in the society & the unity and brotherhood is weakened in the society.

he surely mentioned kawarij and shiashe said follow salaf fine but don't mention yourself as salafi.same applies to all.follow sunnah but don't say you are sunni(*sigh* okay that's for me)i'm JUST a MUSLIM.that's that.i take good from whatever group comes my way and leave whatever is wrong.

However, with respect to the Shias. How can we tolerate these people who curse the Sahabas, the Prophet's wives ? who abandon authentic Sunnah and have incorrect understanding of Tawheed ? (among many other deviations).

same with non believer how can we tolerate them,bhai.i mean this is wrong.we can tolerate non believers,give them dawah,be patient,cocoperate with them but not shiass.sobhnallah(either i got you wrong or i got you right and you are wrong)you are from India right??how do you tolerate those who worship idols??how can you possibly live with them and join hands to make a common cause for you nation........*and come after my poor poor pakistan!!very bad!!*.........leave the ** part.jazakallah khairan

This is not acceptable difference, rather it is a form of heresy. We have to actively do/support dawah to these people, as many are ignorant about basics of Islam.

now you say what i posted above!!

I hope this made some sense. Wasalaamalaykum waa rahmatullahi

did!!but some

wa rahmatullahi wabarakatuhu.

 

[abubaseer]

:salam2: Brothers and Sisters,

This is a topic which has been discussed many time and at great lengths on TTI, and there are many many articles/videos/links as well on TTI.

We need to first of all to educate ourselves about the matter by reading the authentic information rather than becoming emotional.


http://www.ahlelbayt.com/