Should Hamas recognize Isreal or not?

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
Salaam alaykum sisters and brothers;

should Hamas or new formed unity government recognize "Isreal´s right..."? This is one opinion about this question:

What 'Israel's right to exist' means to Palestinians?


Recognition would imply acceptance that they deserve to be treated as subhumans.
John V. Whitbeck, peacepalestine


JEDDAH, SAUDI ARABIA - February 14, 2007

Since the Palestinian elections in 2006, Israel and much of the West have asserted that the principal obstacle to any progress toward Israeli-Palestinian peace is the refusal of Hamas to "recognize Israel," or to "recognize Israel's existence," or to "recognize Israel's right to exist."

These three verbal formulations have been used by Israel, the United States, and the European Union as a rationale for collective punishment of the Palestinian people. The phrases are also used by the media, politicians, and even diplomats interchangeably, as though they mean the same thing. They do not.

"Recognizing Israel" or any other state is a formal legal and diplomatic act by one state with respect to another state. It is inappropriate – indeed, nonsensical – to talk about a political party or movement extending diplomatic recognition to a state. To talk of Hamas "recognizing Israel" is simply to use sloppy, confusing, and deceptive shorthand for the real demand being made of the Palestinians.

"Recognizing Israel's existence" appears on first impression to involve a relatively straightforward acknowledgment of a fact of life. Yet there are serious practical problems with this language. What Israel, within what borders, is involved? Is it the 55 percent of historical Palestine recommended for a Jewish state by the UN General Assembly in 1947? The 78 percent of historical Palestine occupied by the Zionist movement in 1948 and now viewed by most of the world as "Israel" or "Israel proper"? The 100 percent of historical Palestine occupied by Israel since June 1967 and shown as "Israel" (without any "Green Line") on maps in Israeli schoolbooks?

Israel has never defined its own borders, since doing so would necessarily place limits on them. Still, if this were all that was being demanded of Hamas, it might be possible for the ruling political party to acknowledge, as a fact of life, that a state of Israel exists today within some specified borders. Indeed, Hamas leadership has effectively done so in recent weeks.

"Recognizing Israel's right to exist," the actual demand being made of Hamas and Palestinians, is in an entirely different league. This formulation does not address diplomatic formalities or a simple acceptance of present realities. It calls for a moral judgment.

There is an enormous difference between "recognizing Israel's existence" and "recognizing Israel's right to exist." From a Palestinian perspective, the difference is in the same league as the difference between asking a Jew to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened and asking him to concede that the Holocaust was morally justified. For Palestinians to acknowledge the occurrence of the Nakba – the expulsion of the great majority of Palestinians from their homeland between 1947 and 1949 – is one thing. For them to publicly concede that it was "right" for the Nakba to have happened would be something else entirely. For the Jewish and Palestinian peoples, the Holocaust and the Nakba, respectively, represent catastrophes and injustices on an unimaginable scale that can neither be forgotten nor forgiven.

To demand that Palestinians recognize "Israel's right to exist" is to demand that a people who have been treated as subhumans unworthy of basic human rights publicly proclaim that they are subhumans. It would imply Palestinians' acceptance that they deserve what has been done and continues to be done to them. Even 19th-century US governments did not require the surviving native Americans to publicly proclaim the "rightness" of their ethnic cleansing by European colonists as a condition precedent to even discussing what sort of land reservation they might receive. Nor did native Americans have to live under economic blockade and threat of starvation until they shed whatever pride they had left and conceded the point.

Some believe that Yasser Arafat did concede the point in order to buy his ticket out of the wilderness of demonization and earn the right to be lectured directly by the Americans. But in fact, in his famous 1988 statement in Stockholm, he accepted "Israel's right to exist in peace and security." This language, significantly, addresses the conditions of existence of a state which, as a matter of fact, exists. It does not address the existential question of the "rightness" of the dispossession and dispersal of the Palestinian people from their homeland to make way for another people coming from abroad.

The original conception of the phrase "Israel's right to exist" and of its use as an excuse for not talking with any Palestinian leaders who still stood up for the rights of their people are attributed to former US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. It is highly likely that those countries that still employ this phrase do so in full awareness of what it entails, morally and psychologically, for the Palestinian people.

However, many people of goodwill and decent values may well be taken in by the surface simplicity of the words, "Israel's right to exist," and believe that they constitute a reasonable demand. And if the "right to exist" is reasonable, then refusing to accept it must represent perversity, rather than Palestinians' deeply felt need to cling to their self-respect and dignity as full-fledged human beings. That this need is deeply felt is evidenced by polls showing that the percentage of the Palestinian population that approves of Hamas's refusal to bow to this demand substantially exceeds the percentage that voted for Hamas in January 2006.

Those who recognize the critical importance of Israeli-Palestinian peace and truly seek a decent future for both peoples must recognize that the demand that Hamas recognize "Israel's right to exist" is unreasonable, immoral, and impossible to meet. Then, they must insist that this roadblock to peace be removed, the economic siege of the Palestinian territories be lifted, and the pursuit of peace with some measure of justice be resumed with the urgency it deserves.
• John V. Whitbeck, an international lawyer, is the author of, "The World According to Whitbeck." He has advised Palestinian officials in negotiations with Israel.

http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m30645&hd=&size=1&l=e
 
A similar question is....can the Native American Indians who were killed by White Europeans take back their homeland (America) or establish their own state within America?
 

Noor to shine

Junior Member
At what cost – Israel was established?

A question was asked :

At what cost – Israel was established?

The asnwer is:

-Many thousands were killed in the process.Many Massacres were commited by the Israeli`s to free Palastine from it`s own people.

Israel's original sin is Zionism, the ideology that a Jewish State should replace the former Palestine. At the root of the problem is Zionism's exclusivist structure whereby only Jews are treated as first-class citizens. In order to create and consolidate a Jewish State in 1948, Zionists expelled 750,000 Palestinians from their homeland and never allowed them or their descendants to return. In addition, Israeli forces destroyed over 400 Palestinian villages and perpetrated about three dozen massacres. In 1967, the Israelis forced another 350,000 Palestinians to flee the West Bank and Gaza as well as 147,000 Syrians from the Golan Heights. Since 1967 Israel has placed the entire Palestinian population of the Territories under military occupation.
Ronald Bleier

For more see:

http://desip.igc.org/InTheBeginning.html


-Millions of indigenous people were made refugees.

-Hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland, olive plantations, towns and villages were destroyed

This tragedy is not exclusive to the time of establishment; unfortunately it has been ongoing for sixty years now.
 

IMAM

Junior Member
al naqaba

salaam.theft is theft if i can steal people`s land based on the `promise` in the `holy book. what does that say?it matters little the inhabitants of the place i have to ahve it.And the question remins am supposed to aknowledge my oppreser as pre-condition of further humiliation.am no palestinian but sorry if you think might asserts you belong in the wrong millenia.
 

Globalpeace

Banned
Accept Israel or accept Palestinians?

Asslamo Allaikum,

In my humble opinion the question is absurd and deliberately twisted to take the attention away from the real issues.

Israel is a ground reality with nuclear weapons.

The question is when would “Israel” accept that there are humans who live next door to them not mosquitoes who can just be swatted away at will!

The whole concept of “Palestinians as Gentiles” should be addressed and the victims shouldn’t be asked to accept a bully which kills them; whether the Palestinians accept it or not their men get killed, their women get raped, their children shot and their houses demolished each and every day.

To ask whether the Palestinians should accept Israel is absurd.
 

virtualeye

Tamed Brother
AssalaamuAlaikum,

I 100% agree with brother GlobalPeace.

Its all about twists and hypocrisies, nothing else.

Wassalaam.
VE
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
jews yes no zionists

the brothers and sisters of hamas are truthful and brave i think that all the muslim leaders should look up to them and unite the umma instead of relying on western imperialism and hypocrisy they should and we all should rely on allah swt and allah alone man !!!!!!!!instead of kissing the hand that´s slaping them because one day or another ´the whole matter is going to turn against them like it happend with saddam. i know that i have no right to judge and that it´s neither my religious duty nor my right but when i hear about brothers being tortured in muslim countries by muslims i get really furious and allah swt knows best. regarding the zionists their day is coming no matter how many nuclear war heads they have or the western " powers"they hide behind!!!! wassalam:SMILY346: :SMILY346: :SMILY346: :SMILY346: :SMILY346: :SMILY346:
 

Noor to shine

Junior Member
Asslamo Allaikum,

In my humble opinion the question is absurd and deliberately twisted to take the attention away from the real issues.

Israel is a ground reality with nuclear weapons.

The question is when would “Israel” accept that there are humans who live next door to them not mosquitoes who can just be swatted away at will!

The whole concept of “Palestinians as Gentiles” should be addressed and the victims shouldn’t be asked to accept a bully which kills them; whether the Palestinians accept it or not their men get killed, their women get raped, their children shot and their houses demolished each and every day.

To ask whether the Palestinians should accept Israel is absurd.

But if the Palestinians surrender to their occupiers and give up their struggle then that simply means they are accepting this situation: that their men get killed, their women get raped, their children shot and their houses demolished .
 

American Muslim

Just Another Slave
A similar question is....can the Native American Indians who were killed by White Europeans take back their homeland (America) or establish their own state within America?

Yeah, I know, off topic but I had to address this first. No. It's not the same for me at all. American Indians were definitely mistreated similarly, but they are not my brothers in Islam. And fyi, they are full citizens of the US, and citizens of their own tribes. There are federally recognized homelands that are sovereign states inside our borders already for Amerinds. They are allowed to live there or anywhere else in the US as they choose.

The view we see in America on this issue is definitely slanted towards the Israelis. I'm not certain, but the Israelis don't recognize the Palestinians as full citizens do they? If they do (on paper anyway) why are the border crossings to Gaza & the west bank manned by armed soldiers? If peace is what they really want, they need to recognize these Palestinians (Muslim & Christian) as fellow citizens and act accordingly. Not treat them like dangerous beasts, but human beings.
 

sister herb

Official TTI Chef
American Indians were definitely mistreated similarly, but they are not my brothers in Islam.

Salaam alaykum;

this is also off topic but many American Indians are now your brothers in Islam, the first of them were possibly the Cherokeens.

your sisters in Islam... :muslim_child:
 

American Muslim

Just Another Slave
Many individual Amerinds are Muslim, yes, but as a group, no. But I still don't see the same sort of mistreatment that they are given as compared to the Palestinians.
 
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