Suicide Bombing!? What do the Scholars say about it?

Salem9022

Junior Member
I have happened to make this thread because recently The whole Media in the West such as BBC MSNBC etc. have now recently been galvinsied a recent "Fatwah" by a well known Shirky Bereweli Soufi by the Name of Tahir-Ul-Qadri who is an extremist Takfeeri Soufi who propagates Shirk and Fasaad in Pakistan and amoung Pakistanies abroud as You can these are just something he does in Pakistan:

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He has now been promoted in the Kaffir Media such as BBC in stating Suicide Bombing is forbidden in Islam. As If no Authentic Muslim Scholar who is upon the Path of the Quran and Sunnah stated this before!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm

This is another Way how these filthy Kaffir Media try to Promote People who they "believe" represent Islam. this is another way how they promote these people. The Scholars of Islam from amoung Salafiyaah the Scholars in Medina Univeristy and Umm Al Quraa University have been Stating "Suicide is Forbidden" for the Last 50-60 years long before this Soufi Berewli Opened his mouth. But You will never see BBC or MSNBC EVER Post their Fatwah on their News Channel. Because they don't want to Promote Islam according to the Quran and Sunnah. They want to spread fasade and shirk amoung Muslims by promoting the likes of these Tahir-Ul-Qadri.

Whats the Position of Islam in regards to Suicide Bombing?(Mind you This has been posted on this forum before and this Information is already on the internet for the last 10 years!)
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Shaykh Al-Albani Raheemaullah on Suicide Bombing
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Shaykh An-Najmi on Bin Laden
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Osama Bin Laden & Co. REFUTED by Senior Muslim Salafi Scholars!
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To Learn about what Muslim Scholars from Saudi Arabia have said about Suicide Bombing And other issues related to terrorism you can find more about their books and cassesttes here:

http://www.salaf.com/
http://www.salafiaudio.com/
http://www.salafipublications.com/sps/sp.cfm?loadpage=inc_library.cfm
http://www.thewahhabimyth.com/
http://www.answering-extremism.com/ae/thissite.aspx
http://www.themadkhalis.com/md/

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These are just some websites where Major Scholars of Islam have stated long before this Soufi came to the scene. It's Interesting how fast the Kaffir Media just posted his fatwah only after 1 day of him issuing his "fatwah" as if no Major Scholar who is following the Quran and Sunnah had made a Fatwah about this Before. This really shows you the real agenda the Kaffir Media is doing in manipulating who represents Islam and who doesn't.
 

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
:salam2:

One of this is like the link that was posted before and that had talked false about some scholars. It's confusing, and gives way for falsehood to arise. You should read first what the links you want to post say. Madkhali, Wahabi, lol.. Some of the links should be removed, as they are spreading lies and causing hatred among the ummah.

Were there such things as bombs in the prophet's (pbuh) time?
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Assalamu'alaykum,



What are you implying by asking this question?

I think there a wide range of difference between Scholars on this issue.

Some said its based on intention like some one who wants to suicide and finds this way easy as it would also grant him jannah etc is wrong as it surely be purely for sake of ALLAH.

I've also heard Scholars from Saudi Arabia its only permitted in Palestine.

So its a matter of difference nothing can be concluded purely correct.

And people should have right knowledge about it rather than abuse it in the name of Islam
 

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
^Agreed. People should have the right knowledge about it. Misusing it could lead to harm, as it already is.

Assalamu'alaykum,



What are you implying by asking this question?

:wasalam:

What I'm saying is, you can't take the word suicide, and use it for against martyrdom operations. This suicide that the prophet (pbuh) said the one who kills himself. Why would a person kill himself? Maybe if his life was depressing and he didn't see a reason to live anymore. You can see that here, hope and trust in Allah is lost. Whereas if he turned to Allah, things would have been different.

Another thing that we are fed with is, the word suicide bombing/bombers. This word is created by the non Muslims to make us hate our brothers and sisters who do this. In reality, they do for the sake of Allah. They do not commit a suicide, but a martyrdom operation. A martyrdom operation, where they have a family they love, a good life, but they do this for the sake of Allah, and Jihad.

Now killing yourself, along with other Muslims is not the way. A martyr would already know what he is doing.

The Ijtehad of Muslim Scholars

l AL-HANAFIYA: It is Islamically right (Ja'eiz). Al-jassas said: "Mohammed Bin al-Hasan Al-Shaibani said: 'If a Muslim fought a thousand of the unbelievers with the intention to gain Allah's contentment (hurting the enemy or encouraging the other Muslims) it is right and he will be rewarded, Allah willing. Otherwise, it will be Islamically void, useless and pointless."

l AL-MALEKIYA: In Khalil's and al-Dardir's "It is Islamic for a Muslim to fight many of the unbeliever alone, if he does this for the cause of Allah". al-Dasuki said: "We can say that it is Islamic for a Muslim to fight many unbelievers alone with two conditions;

a- He does it for the cause of Allah.

b- He is sure that he will hurt them (if not there is unpreferability- Karahiya)."

l Al-Qurtubi said in his interpretation: Al-Kasem Bin Mukhaimara said: 'It is allowed to fight the enemy alone if you seek Al-Shahada (Martyrdom) and you are strong enough to do it. This is obvious in the Qur'an 'Some people would give away their lives to gain Allah's contentment'."

l Ibn Khuwaiz Mindad said: there are two situations in which a Muslim can fight the enemy alone:

a- If he is sure that he will hurt the enemy and survive.

b- If he is sure that he will hurt the enemy but he will be killed.

l Ibn Taimiyyah said in his Fatawa 540/28 "Muslim narrated in his Sahih, the story of Al-ukhdud (the furrow, which the Prophet (s.a.w.) told to his companions) in which "a young Muslim contributed himself for the cause of Allah". That is why the four Scholars said that, it is right for a Muslim to fight many unbelievers alone even if he thinks he will be killed.

l In Nayl Al Awtar, Al-Shawkani comments "when ten Muslims under the leadership of Asem Bin Thabet were sent by the prophet (s.a.w.) to a tribe to invite them to Islam, in the road they were surrounded by a hundred of the unbelievers. They fought strongly, seven of them killed, one of the three captive survivors feeling their deception, said: "by Allah I will not guide you to Muslims and I have a wonderful examples in front of me (meaning his killed brothers), they tried to force him guiding them, when they failed they killed him." This Hadith proves that, it is Islamically legitimate for a Muslim to fight the many enemy to death. On the other hand, it is permissible to accept to be a captive.

l Ibn Al-Arabi said about that, that it is right for four reasons:

a- Seeking for Martyrdom.

b- Hurting the enemy.

c- Encouraging Muslims.

d- Weakening the spirit of the enemy.

l In his Sunnan, Al-Baihaqi said: Al-Shafie said: there was a fight in front of the prophet (s.a.w.), one of the Ansar fought until he was killed by a group of the unbelievers after being told by the prophet (s.a.w.) about the rewards of his doing.

l Al-Nawawi said about the story of Umair Bin Hammam "it is Islamically right to fight the many unbelievers alone seeking Martyrdom, and there is no unpreferability about that according to the majority of Muslim Scholars".

l Al-Hafez Bin Hajr said: "It is Islamically right, if there are Islamic and good objective behind his doing such as; frightening and hurting the enemy, encouraging the Muslims".
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum warahmatullaah

There is a huge difference between a) seeking martyrdom by fighting the enemy than knowing that death is written and b) killing oneself to harm them. According to the `Ullemaa', there is no analogy between the two because this analogy is drawn on a prohibition, and is thus void. Simple question: in the first case who is the Muslim killed by, his own hands or the kuffaar's? In the second case, who is he killed by, his own hands or the kuffaar's? So how than can an analogy be drawn on two cases where these fundamental factors are totally different. One is a case of nobility, bravey and martyrdom while the other is a major sin full-stop.

As for the name changing, then a principle states, that names don't change realities. Calling a suicide bombing a martyrdom operation is like naming alcohol, 'the cure'. It is a name changed for the purpose of beautifying something which remains ugly, to ease its acceptance amongst the masses. Suicide bombing as a term may be coined by the kuffaar for whatever reasons, but the word suicide itself is the reality of these acts, and is prohibited, and has remained a problem with this ummah from day one, and shall remain a problem with this ummah until yawm al-qiyaamah.

With respect to intentions, feelings and emotions of the one who kills himself, then simply put these into perspective in light of the principles of the shari`ah and you have your answers... I mean, the fact that they do this for the sake of Allaah doesn't mean nothing if you look at how they are achieving this. It is like celebrating the milaad... A noble intention is behind it but it opposes the laws of Islaam, hence it is rejected (as a deed). In fact, this argument is more emotional based than evidence/principle based. It contradicts a foundation of the sunnah and the implied meaning of the shahaadah; that every act we do should be in accordance with the way of the Messenger. And as evidence shows, these acts are in fact major sins, justified by (extremely) weak analogy and not a single, legitimate shar`i evidence. As for the feelings that one experiences in places like Filisteen etc., then I have a question. Since when have such feelings ever determined the allowance and permissibility of an action that is haraam? The only time I have seen any scholar judge in this way, is when that haraam is a lesser evil than the another haraam that could take place.

What follows is part of an excellent answer from Shaykh `Abd ur-Rahmaan Al-Jarboo on this issue. He literally topples the main arguments that are given in justification for suicide bombings, and shows just how weak the reasoning behind such justification is. [The question was pertaining some of the beliefs of Anwar Al-Awlaqi]

This is a translated transcription of a phone call with our shayk Dr. Abdullaah bin Abdur- Rahmaan al-Jarboo, Professor from the College of Dawah "Usool ud-Deen" - Former head of Dept. of Aqeedah at Medinah

The call was placed by Br.Saeed Rhana al-Maghribee and the questions were put to the shaykh by Br. Muwahhid Aaadil al-Michiganee.....

.....

The Shaykh: In the name of Allaah the Kind Bestower of kindness. All praise is due to Allaah the Lord of all creation. In addition, may Allaah mention in the highest company and secure our prophet Muhammad, his family and his companions; to proceed.

From the standpoint of what I heard of his background, his "shaykhs', and his ideas in general, is it clear that this individual is affiliated with the Ikhwaan al-Muslimoon (muslim brotherhood). Especially one of their branches called the "Suroorees".

The muslim brotherhood group has a distinct orientation, and their concerns revolve around certain contemporary issues in which they oppose those firmly rooted in knowledge. They oppose the scholars in their speech and verdicts.

Therefore if this man builds his orientation upon this thinking and ideology of those groups affiliated with, and derived from the likes of the Islaamic Group of Pakistan, at whose head was al-Mawdoodee; the Muslim Brotherhood group of Egypt , and Hamaas of Palestine, (then know) that all of these groups have a specific ideology for themselves.


Thus, the awareness of this man's background his ideological affiliation is very important in knowing his orientation, and making a ruling concerning him and his statements.

As far as the issue of suicide bombings- they call them martyrdom operations-and the scholars have labeled them as suicide, then these acts are most of what the opposers, endorsers of takfeer (i.e. those who expel muslims from the fold of al-Islaam without right) from the Muslim Brotherhood group promote on the internet, in their writings, books, CD's, and lectures. They authorize these acts of violence for which they attempt to assemble proofs to validate them.

These proofs and evidences that they seek to substantiate their position by have already been declared by the people of knowledge as invalid for their use as evidence in the supporting of these acts.

The most important premise in their process of presenting the legitimacy of their stance is their use of al-Qiyas (i.e. analogy or comparative deduction). They conclude that these acts are the same as al-Iqtihaam (attacking the enemy ranks individually) or at-Tatarrus (making one's self or the use of one as a human shield in a face-to-face battle with the enemy).

Because of this, and pay close attention to the following, there exists neither one explicit text, nor any historical account from the companions, Allaah be pleased with them, nor in the history of jihad that can be used to prove the validity their ideology having a basis in the religion.

There is no precedent in history (i.e. Islamic) of anyone committing suicide in jihad! Rather, there was one who committed suicide during a battle in the era of the messenger, but the prophet condemned him for that.

On the account of there not being any clear text to support them, they resort to analogical deduction by comparing suicide bombings to al-Iqtihaam(attacking the enemy ranks individually), exposing one's self to the possibility of being killed; or they compare these bombings with the permissibility of at-Tatarrus( making one's self or the use of one as a human shield in a face-to-face battle with the enemy). The al-mutatarras bihi (soldier used as a human shield) who is killed to create an advantage for the muslim forces, is not to be compared to one who kills himself!

All of their proofs return to their comparing suicide attacks with al-Iqtihaam or at-Tatarrus. Consequently, the response to this is that they oppose the verdict passed by those firmly rooted in legislated knowledge, which is the outlawing of killing of one's self. The people of knowledge, the scholars, have explained that there are definitive texts showing that the one who kills himself with anything will be punished with the self-same object and method from his death until resurrection day.

In addition to this, whoever killed himself deliberately, then he is considered as a suicide, and is included among those threatened with the fire of hell.

The scholars have clarified that the approved warfare mentioned in Allaah's statement,



يقاتلون في سبيل الله فيقتلون و يقتلون

"�they fight in Allaah's path, wherein they kill the enemy or are killed by the enemy�"


There is not a third situation where it is mentioned that they kill them selves!

This is what is connected with the definitive texts that prove the illegality of killing one's self in any condition.

As far as the verdicts of those firmly rooted in knowledge, then those such as:


Shaykh Abdul-Azeez bin Baaz
The Permanent Committee for the issuance of verdicts in Saudi Arabia
Shaykh Muhammad ibn SAalih al-Uthaymeen
Imam al-Albaanee


And many others than these scholars, known for their knowledge, righteousness, and understanding, have agreed with the consensus, and following the example of those firmly established scholars before them, that killing of one's self is forbidden!

Now for those who oppose the scholars, then they do so from two approaches;

Their opposition is the result of their lack of understanding of the religion (of al-Islaam).
They seek to prove their position with arguments leveled by the takfiree groups, or from the splinter groups of the Muslim Brotherhood, and use their methods of proof.
There are those from the people of knowledge who have issued verdicts (in favor of suicide bombings), but the reality of their proof do not extend beyond the previously mentioned arguments, or they are ambiguous evidences. However, the explicit and detailed proofs point to the illegality of such activities.

Secondly, from the angle of Qiyaas (comparative deduction), in their use of comparing suicide bombing with al-Iqtihaam and at-Tatarrus, to what they call "martyrdom operations", this is an invalid conclusion involving two errors:


First of all, it is the use of deduction in the presence of explicit texts regarding the forbidden nature of killing one's self, and in that case, there is no basis for the use of comparative deduction. This type of deduction is called "al-Qiyas Iblisee" (satanic reasoning). This satanic reasoning happens when one seeks to employ analogy in a matter where there exists a clear text, and a conclusion is drawn by this reasoning. This is similar as what occurred when Iblis (satan) was ordered by Allaah to prostrate to Aadam, and he refused to do so in the face of an explicit text, or order. He resorted to analogy by saying that fire is superior to mud, so how could he prostrate to Aadam? How could the superior one prostrate to the inferior?
Thus, they seek to prove their position while there are explicit texts to the contrary of what they promote. The evidence for the forbiddance of suicide is clear and definite. If we accept that analogy in this matter is permitted, when in fact it is not, but if we did so for the sake of argument, this analogy would be false. The false analogy is one wherein there exists disparity between the situations compared

The primary disparity is the analogy of suicide bombings to at-Tatarrus( making one's self or the use of one as a human shield in a face-to-face battle with the enemy) and the Mutatarras bihi ( soldier used as a human shield) or al-Iqtihaam (attacking the enemy ranks individually). This person does not kill himself; others only kill him. Thus, the enemy kills the one who attacks the enemy lines by himself. He does not kill himself. He does not commit suicide; rather, the one who kills him is the enemy. Furthermore, the soldier employed as a shield by the Muslim army is killed by the Muslims, because they crush him in the rush of the swollen ranks towards the enemy, with the aim of killing the unbelievers. They (the Muslims) may trample him and he dies. The Muslims do not kill him intentionally; he dies in the course of the battle. You will not find any of them killing themselves.


The second disparity is that the scholars have stipulated that there has to be a horde of soldiers at the battle, and that is an important condition. The condition that this person's death is the result of the throng of soldiers pushing forward in a face-to-face battle with the unbelievers has been stipulated. In this case, he is allowed to penetrate the enemy ranks individually, distracting the enemy, and inspiring bravery in the Muslim ranks. Just as the jurists require that the soldier employed as a shield is not killed except out of extreme necessity. This occurs when no other option is present. Consequently, comparing suicide attacks to al-Iqtihaam or at-Tatarrus is impermissible, and is considered a satanic analogy when made in contradiction to definitive texts.

If we accept that for the sake of argument that suicide is lawful, then it is an invalid analogy because of existing disparities that in both cases, this person is killed by other than himself.

Similarly, the jurists have explained that there exists the condition of the battle taking place amongst a crowd of combatants, and of there being a dire necessity.

It has become clear to us that the Takfeerees' dependence upon these proofs is futile. As a result of this, they contradict and oppose those scholars deeply rooted in knowledge, and muddle up the issue by resorting to analogy to prove their stance, which is not allowed, and is considered a satanic analogy.

None of their methods of proof goes beyond what we have stated, and all praise is due to Allaah.

Sa'eed Rhana: possessor of excellence, they also seek to prove their position by using the story of the Boy and the King, and the story of Baraa ibn Maalik.

Sh. Al-Jarboo: their means of using these stories as proof is well known. I myself have researched this issue, and all who seek proof by their methods, this is their condition.

In so far as using the proof of the narration about Baraa ibn Maalik is concerned, then this story is a proof for al-Iqtihaam (attacking the enemy ranks individually), because Maalik attacked the enemy lines by himself. This is their seeking proof by comparing suicide attacks with alIiqtihaam.

Now as far as the Boy is concerned, then:


The boy did not kill himself: he was killed by the king.

((The call was interrupted at this point))

We say that the story of Baraa ibn Maalik falls under the category of al-Iqtihaam. The Takfeerees/Jihaadees use this as proof when actually it is a proof for al-Iqtihaam.

Furthermore, we say that Maalik did not kill himself, and he was not killed in this instance. For if he was killed, it would have been the enemy that had done so; he did not at all commit suicide! This was a situation where the ranks were extremely tight and crowded. What he did was advantageous for The Muslim army in a throng of soldiers; it does not compare to these suicide attacks.

For them, the Takfeeree/Jihaadees, there is a comparison with existing disparities, and they are not at all permitted to make analogy in this case.

They make analogies upon analogies. They compare the texts with what they call "martyrdom operations"; these bombings. They compare this with al-Iqtihaam; so we say that this analogy is exceedingly impermissible, and it is satanic when there is a found explicit text regarding this issue. We also say that this analogy is futile as it is a comparison with obvious disparities.

The reason for this is that Baraa ibn Maalik advanced on the enemy ranks by himself, during a face-to-face battle. None who do this in en-masse, and are killed, is considered to have committed suicide; they were killed by the enemy. This is contrary to what one who blows himself does.

The jurists have stipulated that there is a crush and jam of combatants for this type of strategy to be valid. The attacks that they carry out do not include this condition; rather they carry them out in a sneaky fashion.

Regarding the story of the Boy and the King, first, the Boy did not kill himself; the misguided King killed him. Secondly, the boy's situation is from the category of extraordinary phenomena and miracles are manifest among people in accord with a wisdom that Allaah desires.

Allaah prevented the killing of the boy by the king by any method except for one. Allaah informed the boy of the method, and the boy, in turn, informed the king-thus achieving the wisdom that Allaah desired from the boy's death.

Thus, what happened was nothing other than from the category of miracles. What proves this is that the boy was thrown from a mountain; and lived-he was thrown into the sea, and did not drown; he came out. In addition to what is mentioned in the narration is that the King said to the boy, "Your fame has reached the extent that is said that you can return sight to the blind and raise the dead, etc�" The boy was also thrown to a lion and killed it. This proves that he was given miracles.

Miracles cannot be employed in the use of analogy; there is no comparison to be made with them. They are special incidents that cannot be used as a proof in legal matters.

Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen said, "that this miracle has a benefit, and that this benefit is in accord with Allaah's wisdom; meaning that Allaah is the one who desired that benefit and that he arranged the means by which the boy was not killed except in a certain manner."

Therefore, the seeking of proof for these suicide bombings by employing this story is not acceptable from two matters:


The boy did not kill himself, the boy did not kill himself; the unbelieving king killed him.
This story is from the category of miracles and extraordinary phenomena, and comparison is not allowed to be made them. This happening was specifically for the boy. This is because Allaah informed him of the manner by which he could be killed; and the boy said to the king, "You cannot kill me except by this and that�"
There is also a third important perspective that the people of knowledge have explained; it is that the boy was under a legislation of those nations who came before us. If we accepted this and assessed the permissibility of using this as a proof, then this is from a legislation of those who came before us; and it is not permissible to use as a proof for ourselves in a case where we find that is in contradiction to and/or abrogated by our legislation. We have in our legislation that the clear forbiddance of suicide.

From these three perspectives, it is clear that is not allowed to use the story of the Boy and the King as a proof supporting suicide attacks- and Allaah knows best.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
As-salaamu `alaykum warahmatullaah

There is a huge difference between a) seeking martyrdom by fighting the enemy than knowing that death is written and b) killing oneself to harm them. According to the `Ullemaa', there is no analogy between the two because this analogy is drawn on a prohibition, and is thus void. Simple question: in the first case who is the Muslim killed by, his own hands or the kuffaar's? In the second case, who is he killed by, his own hands or the kuffaar's? So how than can an analogy be drawn on two cases where these fundamental factors are totally different. One is a case of nobility, bravey and martyrdom while the other is a major sin full-stop.

As for the name changing, then a principle states, that names don't change realities. Calling a suicide bombing a martyrdom operation is like naming alcohol, 'the cure'. It is a name changed for the purpose of beautifying something which remains ugly, to ease its acceptance amongst the masses. Suicide bombing as a term may be coined by the kuffaar for whatever reasons, but the word suicide itself is the reality of these acts, and is prohibited, and has remained a problem with this ummah from day one, and shall remain a problem with this ummah until yawm al-qiyaamah.

With respect to intentions, feelings and emotions of the one who kills himself, then simply put these into perspective in light of the principles of the shari`ah and you have your answers... I mean, the fact that they do this for the sake of Allaah doesn't mean nothing if you look at how they are achieving this. It is like celebrating the milaad... A noble intention is behind it but it opposes the laws of Islaam, hence it is rejected (as a deed). In fact, this argument is more emotional based than evidence/principle based. It contradicts a foundation of the sunnah and the implied meaning of the shahaadah; that every act we do should be in accordance with the way of the Messenger. And as evidence shows, these acts are in fact major sins, justified by (extremely) weak analogy and not a single, legitimate shar`i evidence. As for the feelings that one experiences in places like Filisteen etc., then I have a question. Since when have such feelings ever determined the allowance and permissibility of an action that is haraam? The only time I have seen any scholar judge in this way, is when that haraam is a lesser evil than the another haraam that could take place.

What follows is part of an excellent answer from Shaykh `Abd ur-Rahmaan Al-Jarboo on this issue. He literally topples the main arguments that are given in justification for suicide bombings, and shows just how weak the reasoning behind such justification is. [The question was pertaining some of the beliefs of Anwar Al-Awlaqi]

Darn I didn't know this reality. I did mention my reply based on Shiekh Anwar Awlakis lecture. It was all takfeeri stuff....

I take back my words then.
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Darn I didn't know this reality. I did mention my reply based on Shiekh Anwar Awlakis lecture. It was all takfeeri stuff....

I take back my words then.

As-salaamu `alaykum

Akhi, I think you should clarify what you mean by that, since many will question what you mean. It is better to be clear than to generalise. Especially when a matter may involve the mention of individuals. Allaah knows best.

While the idea/notion is generally spread by takfeeris, apparently, it seems to be held by some scholars too (though few). Also, some of the lenient and passionate, hold this to be permissible in Filisteen etc. The people I'm referring to are definitely not takfeeri. Rather they're just making excuses for their brothers, which although positive, they do at the expense of some Islamic principles. While there is a relationship between takfeer and bombing, one idea is not exclusively a part of the other.

Moving on,he permissibility has only been declared by for the most part, ignoramuses and those lesser in knowledge from the shuyookh. The fact that the only thing this opinion rests on is weak analogy, is enough for me to abandon it for the explicit proofs from the book and the sunnah.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Assalamu'alaykum,




Who did Awlaki make takfeer in the lecture you listened to by the way? (Which lecture was it anyway?) It would be good to know of who and why, also how he justifies such a grave accusation (if at all).

Well in his series of '' Stories from hadith'' in Q&A he is asked about Suicide attacks so he answers saying its based on intention.

And also he quoted about Baraa Bin Maalik in another Q&A for a similar question.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
As-salaamu `alaykum

Akhi, I think you should clarify what you mean by that, since many will question what you mean. It is better to be clear than to generalise. Especially when a matter may involve the mention of individuals. Allaah knows best.

While the idea/notion is generally spread by takfeeris, apparently, it seems to be held by some scholars too (though few). Also, some of the lenient and passionate, hold this to be permissible in Filisteen etc. The people I'm referring to are definitely not takfeeri. Rather they're just making excuses for their brothers, which although positive, they do at the expense of some Islamic principles. While there is a relationship between takfeer and bombing, one idea is not exclusively a part of the other.

Moving on,he permissibility has only been declared by for the most part, ignoramuses and those lesser in knowledge from the shuyookh. The fact that the only thing this opinion rests on is weak analogy, is enough for me to abandon it for the explicit proofs from the book and the sunnah.

:wasalam:
Akhi I agree with you I was refering with Anwar Awlaki lecture series '' Stories from Hadith'' where he says suicide for sake of ALLAH is accepted. Didn't know the reality about him

Please forgive me if I said anything wrong or confused I consider you more superior in knowledge than me based on your posts I have read.
 

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
First of, any other scholar can say the same thing about like this.

Their opposition is the result of their lack of understanding of the religion (of al-Islaam).

As far as the issue of suicide bombings- they call them martyrdom operations-and the scholars have labeled them as suicide,

There are scholars who said it's suicide, using this word suicide bombers that the non Muslims have created to weaken us, and there are scholars who say martyrdom operation.

The most important premise in their process of presenting the legitimacy of their stance is their use of al-Qiyas (i.e. analogy or comparative deduction). They conclude that these acts are the same as al-Iqtihaam (attacking the enemy ranks individually) or at-Tatarrus (making one's self or the use of one as a human shield in a face-to-face battle with the enemy).

Qiyas is a necessity in this times, and a few rulings have already been established by Qiyas. What of should be wrong when the scholars use it to prove these operations? Imam Hanafi also used Qiyas, is that why some here would try to put down the Hanafi Madhhab.. Kind of, I'm not saying specifically.

Because of this, and pay close attention to the following, there exists neither one explicit text, nor any historical account from the companions, Allaah be pleased with them, nor in the history of jihad that can be used to prove the validity their ideology having a basis in the religion.

Then obviously all scholars would agree on the same thing, wouldn't they?

There is no precedent in history (i.e. Islamic) of anyone committing suicide in jihad! Rather, there was one who committed suicide during a battle in the era of the messenger, but the prophet condemned him for that.

He probably just killed himself, without killing the enemies. It could be said, that to use this as a proof for against martydom operations, is rather weak and has no basis.

For them, the Takfeeree/Jihaadees,

Takfirees and Jihadees in the same place.. :l

I'm no scholar, and I do not wish to say my opinion on every point as I don't have that much knowledge about, and I'm sorry if it seems like I'm trying to refute them. But from what I can gather, there are scholars who allow this, and they call it martydom operation, NOT suicide bombers, which the kufar have created. There is a big difference between the two. I don't believe that it's right to blow yourself up in a market, brother Salem must've been fed up with this happening (as we all are) so it's only natural he would wrap them all in one.

As much as one can say it's not allowed, the other can proof his own stance. Then as usual, one would call the others name and vice versa, and thus the divisions among our ummah. One can't expect these things not to happen, they happen even in smaller issues.

Consider this, an army of the enemy in the Muslim land, who will obviously be killing and torturing the Muslims, but before this happens, a would be martyr kills them all along with himself. No chance were the kufar given to kill the Muslims, by the permission of Allah. What is logical about this being wrong?

We've lost some good members, but this guy is around, spreading links full of hatred and lies about scholars. Will a moderator edit his post please?
 

Al-Kashmiri

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As-salaamu `alaykum

Sister, qiyaas is definitely a necessity and useful for deriving rulings, but what the Shaykh was saying is that in this case, the qiyaas in invalid because it doesn't meet the criteria for qiyaas to be made. He then illustrated this, mentioning that one of the key differences is that taking your life with your own hand, is not the same as when someone else takes your life, so such qiyaas cannot be made. Islaam prohibits the former explicitly; there is no ambiguity in that.

It is interesting that a common proof the people use (the story of the boy and the king) doesn't justify what they say a single bit. I mean, like the Shaykh said (paraphrasing), we follow the sunnah of Muhammad and not that of the previous nations. Secondly, the event was a miracle and can no way be used to derive some ruling. Thirdly, back to the first point, the boy didn't take his own life out.

As for the hadeeth about the one who killed himself, I cannot quote word for word, but basically, a man fought well and killed many in the battlefield. He suffered an injury after his heroic feat, to which he then committed suicide. The companions praised him for his bravery and action, but the Prophet (sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam) condemned him severely.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Ho, its quite confusing now reading the replies.

I think ''Suicide'' ''Martydom"" these words are used out of context in these times.

But when usually these topics are discussed generally one says that what would you do if you were in that land surrounded by enemies with no ammunition or weapons to fight. How can you defend yourself when your attacked.
 

arzafar

Junior Member
there is no islamic precedence to this act.
well all i know is that the specific tactic was invented by kuffar, and we are told not to imitate kuffar in action or appearance.

However, having said that i can understand why a desperate person may want to do such a thing.
 

Abu Talib

Feeling low
Sheikh al-Albanee in the following Q&A considers it permissable in Palestine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOWhFVqZKBI

Are you sure its authentic? Because I do not know Arabic and I was doing a research on this topic and I found a older post here on TTI where a person claimed Shiekh Albaani said its permissible. But Brother Mabsoot had corrected it saying Shiekh Albaani condemned it. Please have a look
http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2292
 

FreedomFighter

Junior Member
As for the hadeeth about the one who killed himself, I cannot quote word for word, but basically, a man fought well and killed many in the battlefield. He suffered an injury after his heroic feat, to which he then committed suicide. The companions praised him for his bravery and action, but the Prophet (sall-Allaahu `alayhi wasallam) condemned him severely.

This still holds no basis in regards to martyrdom. He killed himself, not simultaneasly with killing the kufar. If his act of killing himself could have killed the kufar, then maybe it would have been different.

there is no islamic precedence to this act.
well all i know is that the specific tactic was invented by kuffar, and we are told not to imitate kuffar in action or appearance.

I wonder if there were any war tactics invented by kufar at those times, that were then used by the Muslims against the kufar. By the way, any links or info to how this was created?

There is the link, I haven't been through all the links, that was posted by the thread opener. In it only causes confusion, and relates scholars to Karl and communism?? Why then have this not been removed? Perhaps moderators haven't been through it.

A similar link which was posted in here was called takfir, and here is a link with the same false info, but it's called madhkhali ?
 
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