Swines and Apes

[sazk]

before you go on any further, a point that islam makes and we muslims believe:

Muhammed (peace and blessings be upon him) did not know how to read or write. this was also the case with Jesus and out of a population of 3000 in the city of Makkah, only 11 or 12 knew how to read or write. remember this was before islam, when all of arabia was a pagan land with sporadic tribes of christians and jews living in the desert with them.

Muhammed never knew which writings were correct and which were corrupted. He was merely told by Gabriel to say what God said. many places in the Quran start with Say!. as if Muhammed is being told by someone to Say these words. it was Gabriel revealing to Muhammed that God has said that the previous texts have been changed (well known fact now) but God will protect the Quran from corruption. i wouldn't say islam starts over, neither would i say that modify or reinterpret scriptures. Quran tells mankind that the previous revealed Words of God have been altered. now it is upto you to figure out which parts have been altered and where and how and why. the quran doesnot say specifically which parts have been altered because it does not bog down in petty details. that is upto the common man to find out where the corruption has taken place. besides that, the Quran as a Word of God stands true for all time and the Bible has been altered even uptil relatively recent history. so the Quran is true in saying that men have altered with the Words (as done in recent times)

as an interesting point you will note that scholars agree that there are many versions of the manuscripts of the old and new testament (codex sinaiticus is different from Codex Alexandrianus for example). however the Quran remains as it was in its original form, not a single letter has changed. but ofcourse since you can't read arabic you might not be able to see it.

out of the Tanakh, only the Torah is the revealed Book in Judaism, Nevim and ketuvim are not considered revealed. even the Talmud is not a revealed book.

before you go on about the dead sea scrolls i would seriously say that you ought to read Bart Ehrman's book Misquoting Jesus. it is not an interpretation of the bible, it is a factual history of the compilation of the bible. you may want to get a preview here. click on the link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJluEnIqTVk


NB:- you still haven't told me which version of the bible you are using. are you purposefully avoiding this?

 

[a_muslimah86]

Thanks for the clarification. I see in much of what Mohammad says he seeks to reform the faith that the Jews and Christians corrupted back to the true faith. My questions for any that will respond, What writings did Mohammad consider to be accurate and uncorrupted if any? As a scholar one would seek to find the most ancient versions for the greatest accuracy. The writings of Moses are two thousand years older than Mohammad's. (You know that Christians consider the Old Testament writings that were in the hands of the Jews to be authentic.) But in addition there was a Greek translation of the Law, the prophets and the writings that has been in circulation since several hundred years before Christ. Scrolls from the dead sea compare very favorable to We desire to neither add to or take away. The New Testament is rejected by the Jews but accepted by the Christians. So with that out of the way. Does Islam throw everything else out and start over, or does it take and modify or reinterpret scriptures that was around in the days of Mohammad?
Peace

Essentially...The Qura'an is the reformation and re-authentication of the scriptures that were corrupted at the hands of people both intentionally and unintentionally...you can see this fact in the Qura'an itself..as it speaks to *the people of the book* (i.e. Jews & Christians) and reminds them of/corrects for them the laws and beliefs which they have corrupted..and you can further find facts from the commonalities between Muslim beliefs and Christian & Jewish beliefs..

The prophet (pbuh) could not throw anything away or even attempt to do so..he acted upon the revelations given to him..he was sent to mankind and other creation (jinn) as a reformer..a warner..and a giver of glad-tidings..

If you read the biography of the prophet (pbuh) you would see much praise and honor is given to other prophets & messengers of Allah (think prophets of the bible!)..and at many times..we are encouraged to emulate their way to better ourselves as Muslims..

I hope I answered your question to the point..and I am glad you are taking the approach of questions to learn..only the courageous and sincere would do such a thing

Peace

 

[followeroftheway]

Proof That God was Jesus's father

Where do you get the authority to claim that God was Jesus's father??? Please provide your proof for such statement.

(Astagfir Allah Al Azeem)

.

There are plenty of references in holy scripture that I receive called the bible. However I will defer to the Quran.
3:59 (Asad) Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.


I would have you note that Adam is called the son of Godl. So if Jesus is as the nature of Adam, why would he not also be called the son of God. But I acknowledge that the Quran considers Jesus to be only a man. For this reason he is always referred to not as he is referred to in the bible, but as son of Mary. It is clear that Muhammad considered the view that Christians held of Jesus to be in error. But you can't get away from some unique claims laid upon Jesus even in the Quran.

3:45 (Asad) Lo! The angels said: "O Mary! Behold, God sends thee the glad tiding, through a word from Him, [of a son] who shall become known as the Christ [32] jesus, son of Mary, of great honour in this world and in the life to come, and [shall be] of those who are drawn near unto God.

4:159 (Asad) Yet there is not one of the followers of earlier revelation who does not, at the moment of his death, grasp the truth about jesus; [173] and on the Day of Resurrection he [himself] shall bear witness to the truth against them.

Peace

 

[sazk]

there you go minister . two other muslims saying (pretty much of) the same what i was trying to say. even though i don't know them, never met them. its because this is the truth. Muhammed didn't say the verses of Quran out of his own volition, nor did he ever read the gospels or manuscripts, neither did he ever write the Quran. He just told the Quranic verses as Allah told him via Gabriel.

now which version of the bible do you use?

 

[BigAk]

There are plenty of references in holy scripture that I receive called the bible. However I will defer to the Quran.
3:59 (Asad) Verily, in the sight of God, the nature of jesus is as the nature of Adam, whom He created out of dust and then said unto him, "Be" - and he is.


I would have you note that Adam is called the son of Godl. So if Jesus is as the nature of Adam, why would he not also be called the son of God. But I acknowledge that the Quran considers Jesus to be only a man. For this reason he is always referred to not as he is referred to in the bible, but as son of Mary. It is clear that Muhammad considered the view that Christians held of Jesus to be in error. But you can't get away from some unique claims laid upon Jesus even in the Quran.

There is a serious flaw in your logic here.. You are quoting the Quran's view of Adam then mixing what your bible says about Adam to interpret that Jesus is the son of God.. you can't use both to support each other.. They are two different books. If you can show me where in the "Quran" God says that Adam IS the son of God, then only in this case your argument holds any ground.. But, as it stands the Quran verse you refer to is emphasizing that Jesus is a mere man just like Adam; who Allah created from dust. Adam is never referred to as son of God in the Quran. Therefore, you cannot conclude that Jesus is the son of God based on what that verse in the Quran. It is your bible that claims that Adam is also the son of God in Luke, and not the Quran... I hope you're smart enough to follow the logic here.

As far as the verses 3:45 and 4:159.. They surly don't support your claim that Jesus is son of God..

On the contrary, Allah makes an emphatic statement in the Quran:

"O PEOPLE OF THE BOOK
COMMIT NO EXCESSES IN YOUR RELIGION
NOR SAY OF GOD AUGHT BUT THE TRUTH
CHRIST JESUS THE SON OF MARY
WAS NO MORE THAN A MESSENGER OF GOD
AND HIS WORD
WHICH HE BESTOWED ON MARY
AND A SPIRIT PROCEEDING FROM HIM
SO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGERS"4:171

and in sura Maida

"AND BEHOLD! GOD WILL SAY:
O JESUS THE SON OF MARY
DIDST THOU SAY UNTO MEN
WORSHIP ME AND MY MOTHER
AS GODS IN DEROGATION OF GOD?
HE WILL SAY: GLORY TO THEE!
NEVER COULD I SAY
WHAT I HAD NO RIGHT TO SAY.
HAD I SAID SUCH A THING, THOU WOULD
INDEED HAVE KNOWN IT.
THOU KNOWEST WHAT IS IN MY HEART,
THOUGH I KNOW NOT WHAT IS IN THINE.
FOR THOU KNOWEST IN FULL
ALL THAT IS HIDDEN."
Can Allah have been more emphatic in the Quran than this??

.

 

[followeroftheway]

Fabrication

So you acknowledge the fact that you believe in a fabrication??.. You realize that these same verses of Mark is the only place in Mark that talks about the resurrection??

.

I had hoped that we could talk without reverting to gotchas. You are wrong in your assertion. Read it again for yourself.
What I acknowledge is that a portion of Mark is disputed. Beginning in 16.9.
But prior to that verse you have the angel announcing that "he is risen."
In addition you have Jesus telling his disciples that he would rise.

Still yet you have the Quran.

4:159 (Asad) Yet there is not one of the followers of earlier revelation who does not, at the moment of his death, grasp the truth about jesus; [173] and on the Day of Resurrection he [himself] shall bear witness to the truth against them.

4:157 (Asad) and their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so; [171] and, verily, those who hold conflict ing views thereon are indeed confused, having no [real] knowledge thereof, and following mere con jecture. For, of a certainty, they did not slay him:

3:55 (Asad) Lo! God said: "O jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

 

[followeroftheway]

God has sons

According to your bible, God has sons by the tons in the bible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIut_p9l6fs

Again; where do you get the authority to claim that God was Jesus's father??? Please provide your credible and convincing proof for your statement.

(Astagfir Allah Al Azeem)


.

As a follower of Jesus and believer of the reliability of the bible I have authority to proclaim its contents. But on this site I have no problem with discussing things under the banner of the Quran, however, everything that I say seems to meet with some dispute. What type of proof do you desire for my statements?

Peace

 

[followeroftheway]

Arabic

I assure you that you don't have a problem with the statement in red above... That is what I'm here for.. I am willing to help you. Arabic is my mother tongue.. Praise be to Allah.

.

Thank you and God bless you.

 

[BigAk]

now which version of the bible do you use?

Yes.. Actually, I would like to know the answer to this question as well. This will help us so we can quote you verses from your bible.

.

 

[BigAk]

Still yet you have the Quran.

4:159 (Asad) Yet there is not one of the followers of earlier revelation who does not, at the moment of his death, grasp the truth about jesus; [173] and on the Day of Resurrection he [himself] shall bear witness to the truth against them.

4:157 (Asad) and their boast, "Behold, we have slain the Christ jesus, son of Mary, [who claimed to be] an apostle of God!" However, they did not slay him, and neither did they crucify him, but it only seemed to them [as if it had been] so; [171] and, verily, those who hold conflict ing views thereon are indeed confused, having no [real] knowledge thereof, and following mere con jecture. For, of a certainty, they did not slay him:

3:55 (Asad) Lo! God said: "O jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

I am glad you're referring to the verses above... However there are serious problems with the translation you're relying on... It's very plain to me as I read it in arabic.. I will convey tomorrow insha Allah.. It's getting late and I need to sleep.

If someone else can take on the task while I hit the sack, I would be thankful to my brothers/sisters.

Good night..

.

 

[BigAk]

As a follower of Jesus and believer of the reliability of the bible I have authority to proclaim its contents. But on this site I have no problem with discussing things under the banner of the Quran, however, everything that I say seems to meet with some dispute. What type of proof do you desire for my statements?

Peace

Well.. Obviously proof from your own record... the bible... I take it your bible is your proof, correct?? Provide your evidence and let's all examine it.

.

 

[followeroftheway]

before you go on any further, a point that islam makes and we muslims believe:

Muhammed (peace and blessings be upon him) did not know how to read or write. this was also the case with Jesus and out of a population of 3000 in the city of Makkah, only 11 or 12 knew how to read or write. remember this was before islam, when all of arabia was a pagan land with sporadic tribes of christians and jews living in the desert with them.

Muhammed never knew which writings were correct and which were corrupted. He was merely told by Gabriel to say what God said. many places in the Quran start with Say!. as if Muhammed is being told by someone to Say these words. it was Gabriel revealing to Muhammed that God has said that the previous texts have been changed (well known fact now) but God will protect the Quran from corruption. i wouldn't say islam starts over, neither would i say that modify or reinterpret scriptures. Quran tells mankind that the previous revealed Words of God have been altered. now it is upto you to figure out which parts have been altered and where and how and why. the quran doesnot say specifically which parts have been altered because it does not bog down in petty details. that is upto the common man to find out where the corruption has taken place. besides that, the Quran as a Word of God stands true for all time and the Bible has been altered even uptil relatively recent history. so the Quran is true in saying that men have altered with the Words (as done in recent times)

as an interesting point you will note that scholars agree that there are many versions of the manuscripts of the old and new testament (codex sinaiticus is different from Codex Alexandrianus for example). however the Quran remains as it was in its original form, not a single letter has changed. but ofcourse since you can't read arabic you might not be able to see it.

out of the Tanakh, only the Torah is the revealed Book in Judaism, Nevim and ketuvim are not considered revealed. even the Talmud is not a revealed book.

before you go on about the dead sea scrolls i would seriously say that you ought to read Bart Ehrman's book Misquoting Jesus. it is not an interpretation of the bible, it is a factual history of the compilation of the bible. you may want to get a preview here. click on the link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJluEnIqTVk


NB:- you still haven't told me which version of the bible you are using. are you purposefully avoiding this?

Correction: Jesus could read and write. It was very common for Jews of the first century to read and write. In the gospels accounts are give of him reading from the scrolls.

I mainly read the New Testament in Koine Greek, but I prefer the New King James version for the balance, although I do have a Hebrew Old Testament as well as several other versions. I cut my teeth on the King James Version, and while I know it is not as scholarly I like the poetry of it.

Wow. Here you present me with a dillema. You will not say that Islam calls the writings bad or good. Its up to the individual to decide. So the only thing that I am left with that is reliable is the Quran. Therefore I am left to believe that though all other writings have been tampered with, this one has remained the same. What does the Quran say about that:

2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. [87] Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?

10:15 [Prophet], say: It is not for me to change it of my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, for I fear torment of an awesome day, if I were to disobey my Lord.

26:193 The faithful Spirit [Gabriel] has brought it [the Quran]

So the Quran says that it may change, but you say it has not. Okay. I'll accept that Muslims believe that there may be something else that has truth in it, yet we can't be certain which portion is truth and which is error. It would be easier to discourse with you if we had more points of truth than this, but I will try to keep my discussions to points within the Quran. Thanks for the insight.

Peace

 

[followeroftheway]

The Qura'an

Essentially...The Qura'an is the reformation and re-authentication of the scriptures that were corrupted at the hands of people both intentionally and unintentionally...you can see this fact in the Qura'an itself..as it speaks to *the people of the book* (i.e. Jews & Christians) and reminds them of/corrects for them the laws and beliefs which they have corrupted..and you can further find facts from the commonalities between Muslim beliefs and Christian & Jewish beliefs..

The prophet (pbuh) could not throw anything away or even attempt to do so..he acted upon the revelations given to him..he was sent to mankind and other creation (jinn) as a reformer..a warner..and a giver of glad-tidings..

If you read the biography of the prophet (pbuh) you would see much praise and honor is given to other prophets & messengers of Allah (think prophets of the bible!)..and at many times..we are encouraged to emulate their way to better ourselves as Muslims..

I hope I answered your question to the point..and I am glad you are taking the approach of questions to learn..only the courageous and sincere would do such a thing

Peace

Thanks for your reply. We will speak again I hope.
Peace

 

[followeroftheway]

Scriptures

It wasn't Muhammad, peace be upon him, who did that. It was God. God revealed that to the prophet. The prophet knew nothing of all this. He never went to school, couldn't read or write and couldn't even recognize his own name written on a piece of paper. Yet, he delivered to the world the undisputed masterpiece of Arabic language and literature.



The scribes of Israel edited the Torah and the Gospel. The Gospel suffered a worse fate because a man, Paul, who had no business or authority, wrote half of it. Thus, the most ancient version of both the Torah and the Gospel are permanently lost. If the Torah was preserved, as God required of the Jews, there would not have been a need for the Gospel or for Jesus. If the Gospel were preserved, as God required of the Christians, there would not have been a need for the Quran or for Muhammad, peace be upon him. God tells us in the Quran that He will personally preserve the Quran and He certainly did. Every consonant, vowel, diacritic, punctuation and intonation remained unchanged all this time.



The prophet, peace be upon him answered this question very eloquently. He said, "When the children of Israel quote you from their scriptures, do not believe them and do not disbelieve them!" Why? Because they could be quoting text that was not changed, thus we must never reject it as it is the word of God, but they may be quoting something that is a change and therefore we cannot accept an adulteration of God's sacred words.

I note that the scriptures were corrupted. When? Were both the Old Testament Jewish scriptures corrupted at the same time as the Gospels?

 

[followeroftheway]

The Bible and The Quran

There is a serious flaw in your logic here.. You are quoting the Quran's view of Adam then mixing what your bible says about Adam to interpret that Jesus is the son of God.. you can't use both to support each other.. They are two different books. If you can show me where in the "Quran" God says that Adam IS the son of God, then only in this case your argument holds any ground.. But, as it stands the Quran verse you refer to is emphasizing that Jesus is a mere man just like Adam; who Allah created from dust. Adam is never referred to as son of God in the Quran. Therefore, you cannot conclude that Jesus is the son of God based on what that verse in the Quran. It is your bible that claims that Adam is also the son of God in Luke, and not the Quran... I hope you're smart enough to follow the logic here.

As far as the verses 3:45 and 4:159.. They surly don't support your claim that Jesus is son of God..

On the contrary, Allah makes an emphatic statement in the Quran:

"O PEOPLE OF THE BOOK
COMMIT NO EXCESSES IN YOUR RELIGION
NOR SAY OF GOD AUGHT BUT THE TRUTH
CHRIST JESUS THE SON OF MARY
WAS NO MORE THAN A MESSENGER OF GOD
AND HIS WORD
WHICH HE BESTOWED ON MARY
AND A SPIRIT PROCEEDING FROM HIM
SO BELIEVE IN ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGERS"4:171

and in sura Maida

"AND BEHOLD! GOD WILL SAY:
O JESUS THE SON OF MARY
DIDST THOU SAY UNTO MEN
WORSHIP ME AND MY MOTHER
AS GODS IN DEROGATION OF GOD?
HE WILL SAY: GLORY TO THEE!
NEVER COULD I SAY
WHAT I HAD NO RIGHT TO SAY.
HAD I SAID SUCH A THING, THOU WOULD
INDEED HAVE KNOWN IT.
THOU KNOWEST WHAT IS IN MY HEART,
THOUGH I KNOW NOT WHAT IS IN THINE.
FOR THOU KNOWEST IN FULL
ALL THAT IS HIDDEN."
Can Allah have been more emphatic in the Quran than this??

.

Not at all. It is clear that Mohammad did not believe that Jesus was the son of God. But it is also clear that when it comes to Jesus there are inconsistencies. For example, was Jesus crucified?

 

[followeroftheway]

there you go minister . two other muslims saying (pretty much of) the same what i was trying to say. even though i don't know them, never met them. its because this is the truth. Muhammed didn't say the verses of Quran out of his own volition, nor did he ever read the gospels or manuscripts, neither did he ever write the Quran. He just told the Quranic verses as Allah told him via Gabriel.

now which version of the bible do you use?

I answered esle where that I prefer the Koine Greek for the New Testament. I have a Hebrew of the Old Testament, but I prefer a New King James, although I do have several versions.
Peace

 

[followeroftheway]

Proof

Well.. Obviously proof from your own record... the bible... I take it your bible is your proof, correct?? Provide your evidence and let's all examine it.

.

I prefer to give you proof that you trust like the Quran. I'm not yet well versed in the Quran. Give me time and I will be able to give you all the proof that you require. You don't trust the bible so why would you want me to waste your time?
Peace

 

[sazk]

again you keep doing this cheap trick . again n again. i don't understand why your brain is working this way. you keep picking out 3 entirely different verses of the Quran out of context. and then you come up with a conclusion which is not there in any of the verses.

read the verses carefully again. where does it say that the Quran may change? can you please highlight that in bold ?

also can you please highlight in bold where did i say anything about

"the writings being good or bad. it is upto the individual to decide"

what i said was this: the previous scriptures were tampered with. altered. corrupted. (how many synonyms do i have to use before you get this?) tampered. altered. corrupted. changed. edited. i said it is upto the individual to see which verses were altered (by comparing different copies and manuscripts of the bible)

this has nothing to do with good or bad. or upto the individual to decide.

again: the individual has to compare and contrast the different versions of the bible and its manuscripts to see the changes made. not decide what is good or bad.

seriously do all christians think like this? we say something, you rehash our sentences and make it sound something totally different? it would be better if you highlight where does the Quran say it may change?

2nd post point: unlike the Bible the Quran does not give any timeline when talking about the life of the prophets. it simply states that the bible was changed. it does not go into at what time it was changed, or that it is still being changed, or whether the scribes made a mistake, or whether the scribes willingly changed. it simply states that the bible was altered by humans. something which they were not supposed to do with the Words of God.

3rd post: muslims believe that Allah saved Jesus (peace be upon him) from a shameful death on the cross. he never suffered. he was raised up into heaven and jesus's appearance was put on another man. i don't know why you would post such a thing like that. since you're quoting verses and tafsir of the Quran, then you would most probably know of islam's stance on the crucifixion. we believe Allah saved Jesus from a shameful and naked death on the cross. This is consistent with the fact that the Quran says that Jesus son of Mary will be revered in this world and the Hereafter. so we believe that he was never disrespected on the cross.

 

[followeroftheway]

Translations of the Quran

Such a strange translation! Thank God for Arabic

2:106 If We ever remove a sign or cause it to be forgotten, We bring one which is better than it. Did you not know that God is over everything powerful?

3:55 As God said, "O Jesus, I am recalling thee whole, ascending thee to Me, cleansing thee from those who rejected and making those who followed thee above those who rejected until the day of resurrection." Then to Me is your return when I shall judge between ye in what ye differed on.

4:157 and their saying "We killed Christ Jesus son of Mary, the messenger of God." They did not kill him and they did not crucify him but it was made to look that way to them. Verily those who differ about him are in doubt about it. They do not have knowledge of it except following conjecture. They most certainly did not kill him.

4:159 And none of the people of the Book will but believe in him before his death and on the day of resurrection he will be a witness to them.

10:15 And when Our signs are recited to them, those who do not hope to meet Us say, "Bring forth a Quran other than this or replace it!" Say, "It is not for me to replace it on my own. I only follow what is inspired to me. I fear, if disobey my Lord, a torment of a grand day.

See what happens when you don't have the original? Any message can quickly be lost in the translation.

Which translation of the Quran into English would you recommend?

 

[Rashadi]

Correction: Jesus could read and write. It was very common for Jews of the first century to read and write. In the gospels accounts are give of him reading from the scrolls.

I mainly read the New Testament in Koine Greek, but I prefer the New King James version for the balance, although I do have a Hebrew Old Testament as well as several other versions. I cut my teeth on the King James Version, and while I know it is not as scholarly I like the poetry of it.

Wow. Here you present me with a dillema. You will not say that Islam calls the writings bad or good. Its up to the individual to decide. So the only thing that I am left with that is reliable is the Quran. Therefore I am left to believe that though all other writings have been tampered with, this one has remained the same. What does the Quran say about that:

2:106 (Asad) Any message which, We annul or consign to oblivion We replace with a better or a similar one. [87] Dost thou not know that God has the power to will anything?

10:15 [Prophet], say: It is not for me to change it of my own accord; I only follow what is revealed to me, for I fear torment of an awesome day, if I were to disobey my Lord.

26:193 The faithful Spirit [Gabriel] has brought it [the Quran]

So the Quran says that it may change, but you say it has not. Okay. I'll accept that Muslims believe that there may be something else that has truth in it, yet we can't be certain which portion is truth and which is error. It would be easier to discourse with you if we had more points of truth than this, but I will try to keep my discussions to points within the Quran. Thanks for the insight.

Peace

Greetings follower of the way, with all due respect but your understanding of the Quranic verse is wrong. Chaprer 2 verse 106 does not read as in the translation at all. The word used in the original Arabic is "ayatin" and this word has at least 4 different meanings. It can mean, miracle, sign, verse or revelation and it is not referring to the Quran but to previous scriptures. The Quran does not change and can't change. It is the final authority and it has remained the same since it's revelation. There is to this day only one Quran, it remains in the original, it has been memorized by millions of Muslims from cover to cover and many memorizers of the Quran trace their tradition all the way back to the time of the prophet(pbuh).

As for the previous scriptures, we believe in the originals such as the Torah that was given to Moses(pbuh), and other scriptures but we do not confuse them with the Bible. The Quran mentions 4 other scriptures by name and we are told to believe in them as well since they are the words of God. The Quran is the confirmation of all that went before and it is an authority. It is a well known fact that today's Old Testament is not the actual Torah as given to Moses(as) and Jesus(as) was sent as a messenger to the children of Israel, he was the Messiah who was to bring them back to pure monotheism, and obedience to the Torah and the law giver(God). if everything was intact and the Jews were doing their part, there would be no need for Jesus(as) nor for him to confirm anything but it is a historical fact that there were sects among Jews and some were compromising on their religion and not upholding the Torah.

So we believe in the original revelations of God and He mentions besides the Quran 4 others by name and what was revealed to Muhammad(pbuh) was the guardian of the previous scriptures and a confirmation of what went before.

Peace,