The Command´s in war

[Cariad]

Salam

You can start using Jesus instead of Yeshua. Fits more to your background.

You know not my background. Jesus was called Yeshua is Hebrew form .. ..Meaning "salvation" in Hebrew, it was also the most common form of the name Jesus hence the name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling.... Jesus.

I don't know of Jehovah's Witness choosing to prefer Yeshua (because I am NOT a witness) but I do know it is mostly used in English by Messianic Jews for Jesus. I like Yeshua .. But if it is a problem for you and others I will hence forth use Jesus. Also maybe it would have been polite to request I change my chosen form of address for Jesus.. Rather than command it... Like saying "you can start using..."

Really, the spelling of the name is of no importance.. But knowing the person it applies to is.

Peace to you

 

[tomislav-dra-382i-263]

You know not my background. Jesus was called Yeshua is Hebrew form .. ..Meaning "salvation" in Hebrew, it was also the most common form of the name Jesus hence the name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling.... Jesus.

I don't know of Jehovah's Witness choosing to prefer Yeshua (because I am NOT a witness) but I do know it is mostly used in English by Messianic Jews for Jesus. I like Yeshua .. But if it is a problem for you and others I will hence forth use Jesus. Also maybe it would have been polite to request I change my chosen form of address for Jesus.. Rather than command it... Like saying "you can start using..."

Really, the spelling of the name is of no importance.. But knowing the person it applies to is.

Peace to you

Wa Iyakum

Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim

Speling is important because Allah s.w.t. Is above 7th heaven. The first heaven is decorated with stars. I don't no any text in hebrew which states something like that. We differ or no , because many people follow written proofs. Also people differ to the place of birth. I appreciate you correct muslims here. But what unites believers is faith. Me also folloved written proofs. But syster no one can stay indiferent by hearing athan or the recitation of the Qur'an. It pleases heart. It is a guidance and mercy from Allah. I'm glad you have a respect for your background . Allah Akbar.

 

[Cariad]

Wa Iyakum

Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim

Speling is important because Allah s.w.t. Is above 7th heaven. The first heaven is decorated with stars. I don't no any text in hebrew which states something like that. We differ or no , because many people follow written proofs. Also people differ to the place of birth. I appreciate you correct muslims here. But what unites believers is faith. Me also folloved written proofs. But syster no one can stay indiferent by hearing athan or the recitation of the Qur'an. It pleases heart. It is a guidance and mercy from Allah. I'm glad you have a respect for your background . Allah Akbar.

Spelling is only of importance for mankind. You think such thing as spelling is a concern for Almighty God? How so..? As you Say God is in His Heaven and is above such trivia as concerns minutae of mankind. Language is for human communication. Not needed for God. The article below explains what I mean.. For in different languages the same object can be known by different word but the object remains the same. God of the Bible prophets was called as YHWH muslims call the One God as Allah because of language.. Namely arabic. Which is the language of Islam is it not? Gods message to mankind is meant for all peoples of the world regardless of what language they know, so the Message to be true has to translate into every language and remain true to its meaning. Languages evolve over time.. As mankind evolves also.. Gods message is the one true constant in whatever time, place or language it is heard.

Written proofs alone are only as reliable as the human who commited the words to manuscripts. As oral tradition, the first form of transmission for scripture, is only as reliable as its orator. What is of most importance is faith in God. That God ensures that the scripture we have for guidance is what He meant us to have. That is why the Bible and Quran state NON can change Gods word... And this is truth. You may take this literally and believe that the first word used must always be used.. But that does not take into account the evolution of language and mankind using it. In a way the message itself it more important that the words used to convey it.

*****
Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names “Joshua” and “Jesus” are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for our Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)

Changing the language of a word does not affect the meaning of the word. We call a bound and covered set of pages a “book.” In German, it becomes a buch. In Spanish, it is a libro; in French, a livre. The language changes, but the object itself does not. As Shakespeare said, “That which we call a rose / By any other name would smell as sweet” (Romeo and Juliet, II:i). In the same way, we can refer to Jesus as “Jesus,” “Yeshua,” or “YehSou” (Cantonese) without changing His nature. In any language, His name means “The Lord Is Salvation.”

As for the controversy over the letter J, it is much ado about nothing. It is true that the languages in which the Bible was written had no letter J. But that doesn’t mean the Bible never refers to “Jerusalem.” And it doesn’t mean we cannot use the spelling “Jesus.” If a person speaks and reads English, it is acceptable for him to spell things in an English fashion. Spellings can change even within a language: Americans write “Savior,” while the British write “Saviour.” The addition of a u (or its subtraction, depending on your point of view) has nothing to do with whom we’re talking about. Jesus is the Savior, and He is the Saviour. Jesus and Yeshuah and Iesus are all referring to the same Person.

The Bible nowhere commands us to only speak or write His name in Hebrew or Greek. It never even hints at such an idea. Rather, when the message of the gospel was being proclaimed on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in the languages of the “Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene” (Acts 2:9–10). In the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus was made known to every language group in a way they could readily understand. Spelling did not matter.

We refer to Him as “Jesus” because, as English-speaking people, we know of Him through English translations of the Greek New Testament. Scripture does not value one language over another, and it gives no indication that we must resort to Hebrew when addressing the Lord. The command is to “call on the name of the Lord,” with the promise that we “shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Joel 2:32). Whether we call on Him in English, Korean, Hindi, or Hebrew, the result is the same: the Lord is salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Yeshua-Jesus.html ***

Peace unto you.

 

[tomislav-dra-382i-263]

Wa Iyakum

Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim

Speling is important because Allah s.w.t. Is above 7th heaven. The first heaven is decorated with stars. I don't no any text in hebrew which states something like that. We differ or no , because many people follow written proofs. Also people differ to the place of birth. I appreciate you correct muslims here. But what unites believers is faith. Me also folloved written proofs. But syster no one can stay indiferent by hearing athan or the recitation of the Qur'an. It pleases heart. It is a guidance and mercy from Allah. I'm glad you have a respect for your background . Allah Akbar.

Wa Iyakum

Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim

Speling is important because Allah s.w.t. Is above 7th heaven. The first heaven is decorated with stars. I don't no any text in hebrew which states something like that. We differ or no , because many people follow written proofs. Also people differ to the place of birth. I appreciate you correct muslims here. But what unites believers is faith. Me also folloved written proofs. But syster no one can stay indiferent by hearing athan or the recitation of the Qur'an. It pleases heart. It is a guidance and mercy from Allah. I'm glad you have a respect for your background . Allah Akbar.

You know not my background. Jesus was called Yeshua is Hebrew form .. ..Meaning "salvation" in Hebrew, it was also the most common form of the name Jesus hence the name corresponds to the Greek spelling Iesous, from which, through the Latin Iesus, comes the English spelling.... Jesus.

I don't know of Jehovah's Witness choosing to prefer Yeshua (because I am NOT a witness) but I do know it is mostly used in English by Messianic Jews for Jesus. I like Yeshua .. But if it is a problem for you and others I will hence forth use Jesus. Also maybe it would have been polite to request I change my chosen form of address for Jesus.. Rather than command it... Like saying "you can start using..."

Really, the spelling of the name is of no importance.. But knowing the person it applies to is.

Peace to you

Spelling is only of importance for mankind. You think such thing as spelling is a concern for Almighty God? How so..? As you Say God is in His Heaven and is above such trivia as concerns minutae of mankind. Language is for human communication. Not needed for God. The article below explains what I mean.. For in different languages the same object can be known by different word but the object remains the same. God of the Bible prophets was called as YHWH muslims call the One God as Allah because of language.. Namely arabic. Which is the language of Islam is it not? Gods message to mankind is meant for all peoples of the world regardless of what language they know, so the Message to be true has to translate into every language and remain true to its meaning. Languages evolve over time.. As mankind evolves also.. Gods message is the one true constant in whatever time, place or language it is heard.

Written proofs alone are only as reliable as the human who commited the words to manuscripts. As oral tradition, the first form of transmission for scripture, is only as reliable as its orator. What is of most importance is faith in God. That God ensures that the scripture we have for guidance is what He meant us to have. That is why the Bible and Quran state NON can change Gods word... And this is truth. You may take this literally and believe that the first word used must always be used.. But that does not take into account the evolution of language and mankind using it. In a way the message itself it more important that the words used to convey it.

*****
Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names “Joshua” and “Jesus” are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for our Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)

Changing the language of a word does not affect the meaning of the word. We call a bound and covered set of pages a “book.” In German, it becomes a buch. In Spanish, it is a libro; in French, a livre. The language changes, but the object itself does not. As Shakespeare said, “That which we call a rose / By any other name would smell as sweet” (Romeo and Juliet, II:i). In the same way, we can refer to Jesus as “Jesus,” “Yeshua,” or “YehSou” (Cantonese) without changing His nature. In any language, His name means “The Lord Is Salvation.”

As for the controversy over the letter J, it is much ado about nothing. It is true that the languages in which the Bible was written had no letter J. But that doesn’t mean the Bible never refers to “Jerusalem.” And it doesn’t mean we cannot use the spelling “Jesus.” If a person speaks and reads English, it is acceptable for him to spell things in an English fashion. Spellings can change even within a language: Americans write “Savior,” while the British write “Saviour.” The addition of a u (or its subtraction, depending on your point of view) has nothing to do with whom we’re talking about. Jesus is the Savior, and He is the Saviour. Jesus and Yeshuah and Iesus are all referring to the same Person.

The Bible nowhere commands us to only speak or write His name in Hebrew or Greek. It never even hints at such an idea. Rather, when the message of the gospel was being proclaimed on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in the languages of the “Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene” (Acts 2:9–10). In the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus was made known to every language group in a way they could readily understand. Spelling did not matter.

We refer to Him as “Jesus” because, as English-speaking people, we know of Him through English translations of the Greek New Testament. Scripture does not value one language over another, and it gives no indication that we must resort to Hebrew when addressing the Lord. The command is to “call on the name of the Lord,” with the promise that we “shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Joel 2:32). Whether we call on Him in English, Korean, Hindi, or Hebrew, the result is the same: the Lord is salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Yeshua-Jesus.html ***

Peace unto you.

Wa Iyakum

 

[tomislav-dra-382i-263]

Spelling is only of importance for mankind. You think such thing as spelling is a concern for Almighty God? How so..? As you Say God is in His Heaven and is above such trivia as concerns minutae of mankind. Language is for human communication. Not needed for God. The article below explains what I mean.. For in different languages the same object can be known by different word but the object remains the same. God of the Bible prophets was called as YHWH muslims call the One God as Allah because of language.. Namely arabic. Which is the language of Islam is it not? Gods message to mankind is meant for all peoples of the world regardless of what language they know, so the Message to be true has to translate into every language and remain true to its meaning. Languages evolve over time.. As mankind evolves also.. Gods message is the one true constant in whatever time, place or language it is heard.

Written proofs alone are only as reliable as the human who commited the words to manuscripts. As oral tradition, the first form of transmission for scripture, is only as reliable as its orator. What is of most importance is faith in God. That God ensures that the scripture we have for guidance is what He meant us to have. That is why the Bible and Quran state NON can change Gods word... And this is truth. You may take this literally and believe that the first word used must always be used.. But that does not take into account the evolution of language and mankind using it. In a way the message itself it more important that the words used to convey it.

*****
Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names “Joshua” and “Jesus” are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for our Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)

Changing the language of a word does not affect the meaning of the word. We call a bound and covered set of pages a “book.” In German, it becomes a buch. In Spanish, it is a libro; in French, a livre. The language changes, but the object itself does not. As Shakespeare said, “That which we call a rose / By any other name would smell as sweet” (Romeo and Juliet, II:i). In the same way, we can refer to Jesus as “Jesus,” “Yeshua,” or “YehSou” (Cantonese) without changing His nature. In any language, His name means “The Lord Is Salvation.”

As for the controversy over the letter J, it is much ado about nothing. It is true that the languages in which the Bible was written had no letter J. But that doesn’t mean the Bible never refers to “Jerusalem.” And it doesn’t mean we cannot use the spelling “Jesus.” If a person speaks and reads English, it is acceptable for him to spell things in an English fashion. Spellings can change even within a language: Americans write “Savior,” while the British write “Saviour.” The addition of a u (or its subtraction, depending on your point of view) has nothing to do with whom we’re talking about. Jesus is the Savior, and He is the Saviour. Jesus and Yeshuah and Iesus are all referring to the same Person.

The Bible nowhere commands us to only speak or write His name in Hebrew or Greek. It never even hints at such an idea. Rather, when the message of the gospel was being proclaimed on the Day of Pentecost, the apostles spoke in the languages of the “Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene” (Acts 2:9–10). In the power of the Holy Spirit, Jesus was made known to every language group in a way they could readily understand. Spelling did not matter.

We refer to Him as “Jesus” because, as English-speaking people, we know of Him through English translations of the Greek New Testament. Scripture does not value one language over another, and it gives no indication that we must resort to Hebrew when addressing the Lord. The command is to “call on the name of the Lord,” with the promise that we “shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Joel 2:32). Whether we call on Him in English, Korean, Hindi, or Hebrew, the result is the same: the Lord is salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Yeshua-Jesus.html ***

Peace unto you.

Iblis became a fallen angel by disagreement with Gods will by saying he is better than Adam. He said he is made of fire and Adam is made of ground so he is better than Adam. Syster can we stop the discussion not to proceed path taken by Iblis

 

[tomislav-dra-382i-263]

Iblis became a fallen angel by disagreement with Gods will by saying he is better than Adam. He said he is made of fire and Adam is made of ground so he is better than Adam. Syster can we stop the discussion not to proceed path taken by Iblis

 

[Cariad]

Iblis became a fallen angel by disagreement with Gods will by saying he is better than Adam. He said he is made of fire and Adam is made of ground so he is better than Adam. Syster can we stop the discussion not to proceed path taken by Iblis

.. Of course, if you wish not to understand people the better by discussion, then of course that is fine. I respect your wishes. But please then.. Do not make demands of how I may refer to my Saviour, if I wish to refer to Jesus as Yeshua it should be my right to do so. Not just to conform to your notion of how I as Christian should refer to Jesus I think that is fair. do you?

Peace.

 

[Cariad]

Iblis became a fallen angel by disagreement with Gods will by saying he is better than Adam. He said he is made of fire and Adam is made of ground so he is better than Adam. Syster can we stop the discussion not to proceed path taken by Iblis

.. Of course, if you wish not to understand people the better by discussion, then of course that is fine. I respect your wishes. But please then.. Do not make demands of how I may refer to my Saviour, if I wish to refer to Jesus as Yeshua it should be my right to do so. Not just to conform to your notion of how I as Christian should refer to Jesus I think that is fair. do you?

Peace.

 

[cabdixakim]

That's is good. Do you believe Christians don't know who we are praying to? we pray to God the God Of Abraham, and all the prophets prayed to. Known as YHWH the creator of all we are and whom we would not exist. He is one

To say such things as " He begets not nor was he begotten" Christians see that the suggestion that such could ever be applied to Holy God as blasphemy.. To even think such a thing of Holy God is not done. I hope you can understand why seeing such statements in your Holy Book raises concerns and questions in our minds. When you level then at Christians. I believe such a verse in the Quran was meant for the pagans of Arabia to whom your prophet was sent to after all. As Christians and Jews already worshipped the One True God.. YHWH.. And this God has no need if wives, consorts, sons or any associates whatsoever. I believe it's only much later ( after death of your prophet) that Muslims started to apply these verses to Christians I think maybe based on their misunderstanding of the trinity doctrine.. Which really has nothing to do with Bible teaching. We worship God as One how God clearly revealed Himself in our Holy Book .. The Bible. Btw .. Did you know Yeshua claimed to have the keys to death and Hades? And that He is the first and the last? He also said those that honour the Son honour the Father and those who do not honour the Son do not honour the Father (God) fully.

Honestly, I am clear in my worship of the One True God as Yeshua revealed Him to us, so we will know His glory. Anyway, we are in last week of advent which culminates in our celebration of the birth of Yeshua.. ( not that we believe He was actually born on the 25 Dec.. Like some members on here have said ) but we look back in remembrance of His first coming and look forward with joyful anticipation of His second coming. All praise be to God the most high.
Peace and blessings to you and all believers .. Muslim and Christian and Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in humanity.

Greetings @Cariad

There is so much to respond to in your post and your discussion as a whole if you'd allow me? ...

you say you believe in One True God as do all christians and you call him YHWH and he has no consorts,associates, "sons" but yet you underline that "whoever doesn't honour the son does not honour the father"... And so there is surely a son?

you claim the sentence "He begets nor was He begotten" found in Islamic text is by itself a blasphemy for how can being born and having children ever apply to God... but then you say you're waiting for the celebration of the birth(or first appearing as you said) of Yeshua and so there is a time he was given birth to by a woman like all human beings do... which is a bigger blasphemy; to claim God can never be begotten or celebrate the mark of birth of the one you claim to be god?

you claim to worship the God of Abraham but yet you clearly say your lord is Yeshua( who is Jesus)... so how can you be of the same faith to Abraham when he worshiped God(the creator) and your lord is Jesus(the created man)?

If your claim is that Yeshua is different to YHWH then you other claim that "Yeshua is the first and the last" can only mean there are the same or Yeshua is somewhat superior... and so every reason suggests you take Yeshua as your lord, right?

You approve of God being the Creator,far from any associates, yet you take Yeshua( Jesus,as you suggest ) a man, of bone and flesh, given birth to, circumsiced,baptised, Ate,excreted and egested like any other man to be your lord... what could be more confusing!

... I think you're mixing up two distinct and far aside doctrines; the christian church belief and what you read of Islamic and biblical texts that point to One Almighty God!

There can simply be no unparallel paths leading to God... if God is one then it's only right for His religion to be one... how can He reveal different religions and doctrines describing him differently, causing confusion?

There can only be One religion,one describtion of God that He revealed, sent to all people before us and every time a Messanger departed and people became corrupt another messanger was annointed to keep the continuation of the one true religion... the people of the old Testemant (the Jews) broke the continuation and let go of the one true path by their disbelieve in Jesus Christ(p.b.u.h) as he appeared to them, the people in the New testament let go of that path by their confusion of God to Jesus after he departed and by their disbelieve to Muhammad(p.b.u.h) after he appeared to them... the one True continuous religion, that of Adam,Abraham and all prophets peace of Allah be upon them all declares that "There is no God but Allah,the Almighty the Creator"... anything besides that is a confusion and confusion is far from reality...

as for your discussion as a whole which is based on the philosophy "love everyone even the criminal,your enemy... etc" I think it has no textual or factual proofs to back it up and that philosophy is not practical at all... for how can there be a society and a gathering of people without justice being established, without developing hate for injustice and without the evil,the causers of injustice being judged and called evil and without placing them rightly in the eyes of justice? and what's a better justice than the rulings sent down by the Creator the Just!

without sounding offensive and assaulting those are the points in your post that I object to... otherwise your last paragraph is kind and can only mean that I be kind to you to as well...

peace be upon you too

 

[tomislav-dra-382i-263]

.. Of course, if you wish not to understand people the better by discussion, then of course that is fine. I respect your wishes. But please then.. Do not make demands of how I may refer to my Saviour, if I wish to refer to Jesus as Yeshua it should be my right to do so. Not just to conform to your notion of how I as Christian should refer to Jesus I think that is fair. do you?

Peace.

It's fair

 

[Cariad]

Greetings @Cariad

There is so much to respond to in your post and your discussion as a whole if you'd allow me? ...

Firstly.. Allow me, I am not at all offended by your response. really I do not expect you to agree or even to understand my position .. Or the christian position.. Although it would of course be good if some understanding could be reached. But really.. In the grand scheme of life it is of little importance. There are many things in Islam that makes zero sense to me if I am to take that your Allah is one and the same as YHWH .. God of Abraham and all the prophets before your Muhammed. But Again, what does that matter? That said I will attempt to address your issues.. But can offer no guarantee that you will be any further forward in understanding.

you say you believe in One True God as do all christians and you call him YHWH and he has no consorts,associates, "sons" but yet you underline that "whoever doesn't honour the son does not honour the father"... And so there is surely a son?

Here I think you are mistaking the humanity of Yeshua/Jesus with deity. It does not work like that and is not Bible teaching. The Son is not the Father, as in cannot do what the Father does not will. We believe Jesus... (Seems strange to say Jesus, but if it is easier for some members here then so be it) is word of God. Bible teaching says Jesus existed in all eternity as word of God. That all was created by Him and for Him.. Which means God creates all by His word, I believe the Quran says this also. So, when Jesus said that to Honour the son was the same as honouring the Father.. It is because as Gods word made flesh Jesus is one and the same. Not a god in His own right, or associate or partner. Maybe your problem could be the inability to distinguish the body from spirit.

[quotes]you claim the sentence "He begets nor was He begotten" found in Islamic text is by itself a blasphemy for how can being born and having children ever apply to God... but then you say you're waiting for the celebration of the birth(or first appearing as you said) of Yeshua and so there is a time he was given birth to by a woman like all human beings do... which is a bigger blasphemy; to claim God can never be begotten or celebrate the mark of birth of the one you claim to be god?[/quote]

Hmm... I think you are maybe thinking in terms of "begotten" in human terms. Like procreation, which when I read Quran it seems to put that inference forward.. That is blasphemous and NOT biblical teaching. I blame KJV for this misunderstanding. The original word in Biblical manuscripts is "monogenes" which means unique.. And does not refer to procreation and birth..the word Monogenes was also used in Bible in relation to Abraham and his son Isaac.. But we know Isaac was not the only son of Abraham because he also had Ishmael, but to Isaac the term mongenes was applied because Isaac was also unique in that progeny would be counted through him and the manner of his conception was unique at that time.

It was necessary for Jesus to be born of a woman .. That is of humanity. Really if God willed Jesus could have been created as Adam was fully formed as a man without recourse to parents at all.. but he was not. The Bible explains this need the Quran does not I think.. So you maybe just take the fact of Jesus' miraculous birth as some kind of sign.. Like being a special prophet or something. but that does not work really. So without the understanding and explanation of why Jesus was born thus it I see you must come to your own conclusions.

you claim to worship the God of Abraham but yet you clearly say your lord is Yeshua( who is Jesus)... so how can you be of the same faith to Abraham when he worshiped God(the creator) and your lord is Jesus(the created man)?

No... Worship is to God... The creator. Although how is Gods word any less worthy of worship than God himself? That's what Jesus meant by honouring the Son as the Father.. And those who do not honour the Son are not honouring God fully.. (That's you )

If your claim is that Yeshua is different to YHWH then you other claim that "Yeshua is the first and the last" can only mean there are the same or Yeshua is somewhat superior... and so every reason suggests you take Yeshua as your lord, right?

I don't understand what you are saying here. Is your issue'm with the title Lord as applied to Jesus.. ? Or Yeshua as you kindly say.. but.. Yeshua is superior to all other prophets. For me reading the Quran as per my understanding I see the same there. It doesn't matter what you may say about Yeshua being just another prophet .. Neither Bible or Quran back up this belief. You maybe should look up the "I AM" statements of Yeshua.. Then maybe ask would or has any other prophet ever made such claims.

You approve of God being the Creator,far from any associates, yet you take Yeshua( Jesus,as you suggest ) a man, of bone and flesh, given birth to, circumsiced,baptised, Ate,excreted and egested like any other man to be your lord... what could be more confusing!

You confuse maybe the use of word Lord?? The disciples among others referred to Yeshua as Lord.. Are we then in error to do so? They recognised the distinction between God the creator and Jesus His Word made flesh. It seem you cannot see past your misconception of Yeshua the man as a god in His own right. Yeshua was never a god. But the God.

.

.. I think you're mixing up two distinct and far aside doctrines; the christian church belief and what you read of Islamic and biblical texts that point to One Almighty God!

it has nothing to do with church belief.. Whatever that is.. But everything to do with Biblical teaching. The Islamic idea of One Almighty God at times I struggle to see as the same God creator as Abraham and the prophets worshipped. But I try very hard to see the similarities there. The Bible teaches One Almighty God.. And that's the God I worship.

There can simply be no unparallel paths leading to God... if God is one then it's only right for His religion to be one... how can He reveal different religions and doctrines describing him differently, causing confusion?

"Religion" has nothing to do with God.

There can only be One religion,one describtion of God that He revealed, sent to all people before us and every time a Messanger departed and people became corrupt another messanger was annointed to keep the continuation of the one true religion... the people of the old Testemant (the Jews) broke the continuation and let go of the one true path by their disbelieve in Jesus Christ(p.b.u.h) as he appeared to them, the people in the New testament let go of that path by their confusion of God to Jesus after he departed and by their disbelieve to Muhammad(p.b.u.h) after he appeared to them... the one True continuous religion, that of Adam,Abraham and all prophets peace of Allah be upon them all declares that "There is no God but Allah,the Almighty the Creator"... anything besides that is a confusion and confusion is far from reality...

Hmm.. Difference being God never gave us a "religion" like Judaism or Christianity. God only said we were to love Him and worship Him in truth and sincerity. This Jews and Christians have been doing for millennia before Islam and will continue the same. The Jews never broke the Abrahamic covenant or ceased to worship God. Yeshua was Messiah... They did not reject Him as Messenger (which is angel in bible.. So best we stick to prophet to avoid confusion - I think your meaning is more prophet than messenger) they. Rejected Yeshua as their promised Messiah. Yeshua showed how He fulfilled the law so we (mankind) would not be condemned by it. christians- who later followed as followers of Yeshuas' teachings never ceased worshipping the One True God as we continue to worship today. So that does not work. Corruption of texts does not work without evidence which you do not have.. And accepting Muhammed as a prophet does not work - at least for Christians as Jesus said it was ended with Him and so no reason to expect another prophet. jews would not accept a "prophet" that was not from the line of Isaac. There is no confusion... God is what God has always been ~ One.. creator of all we are and all we ever can be.. And the only God worthy of our praise, live and worship. If you call this God as Allah.. Then that is ok for me as long as it is same God of Abraham

as for your discussion as a whole which is based on the philosophy "love everyone even the criminal,your enemy... etc" I think it has no textual or factual proofs to back it up and that philosophy is not practical at all... for how can there be a society and a gathering of people without justice being established, without developing hate for injustice and without the evil,the causers of injustice being judged and called evil and without placing them rightly in the eyes of justice? and what's a better justice than the rulings sent down by the Creator the Just!

Gods ways are not our ways. God is perfect we are not. Gods justice is perfect ours is not. But .. Yeshua taught that love conquers all, and I believe it does. It fails because we are not able to embrace this simple concept and let Gods love show us the way. Maybe the time is not yet.. But be assured when Yeshua returns and Gods Kingdom will reign upon earth then we shall all understand what love in its purest form is and its power over evil. Until that time mankind continues to dispense justice as it believes is best for society to function.. It is not perfect and will never be.. For simple reason we are not perfect.

without sounding offensive and assaulting those are the points in your post that I object to... otherwise your last paragraph is kind and can only mean that I be kind to you to as well...

peace be upon you too

I have been on this forum for quite a while, and it seems for the most part a lone Christian presence many times I have felt offended and insulted but truly for most parts I believe this is never intentional and often stems from misconceptions we may hold of each other. The way to dispel misconceptions is I believe through dialogue. If we are to feel offended by the least point we do not agree on then I feel that would be a poor effort with nothing at all to be gained. This little cookie is a tough little cookie and does not see offence readily. I am not asking any person to believe as I do... Only to continue to worship God as God has revealed Himself to them, which is a personal journey to each and every one of us.

Peace and blessings upon you.

 

[cabdixakim]

Firstly.. Allow me, I am not at all offended by your response. really I do not expect you to agree or even to understand my position .. Or the christian position.. Although it would of course be good if some understanding could be reached. But really.. In the grand scheme of life it is of little importance. There are many things in Islam that makes zero sense to me if I am to take that your Allah is one and the same as YHWH .. God of Abraham and all the prophets before your Muhammed. But Again, what does that matter? That said I will attempt to address your issues.. But can offer no guarantee that you will be any further forward in understanding.



Here I think you are mistaking the humanity of Yeshua/Jesus with deity. It does not work like that and is not Bible teaching. The Son is not the Father, as in cannot do what the Father does not will. We believe Jesus... (Seems strange to say Jesus, but if it is easier for some members here then so be it) is word of God. Bible teaching says Jesus existed in all eternity as word of God. That all was created by Him and for Him.. Which means God creates all by His word, I believe the Quran says this also. So, when Jesus said that to Honour the son was the same as honouring the Father.. It is because as Gods word made flesh Jesus is one and the same. Not a god in His own right, or associate or partner. Maybe your problem could be the inability to distinguish the body from spirit.

[quotes]you claim the sentence "He begets nor was He begotten" found in Islamic text is by itself a blasphemy for how can being born and having children ever apply to God... but then you say you're waiting for the celebration of the birth(or first appearing as you said) of Yeshua and so there is a time he was given birth to by a woman like all human beings do... which is a bigger blasphemy; to claim God can never be begotten or celebrate the mark of birth of the one you claim to be god?

Greetings,
you put up a neat lengthy work for me but honestly it feels like you've been answering another person's post!