The War buisness

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies a theft from those who hunger and are not fed; those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its labourers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron." Dwight D. Eisenhower


There's no business like war business, like no business so low
Everything about it is appalling, everything that greed will allow
Nowhere to you get that sickening feeling as when they're selling arms like now
There's no people like war people who smile when they make dough
Whether selling guns or tanks, it's just more money in their banks
Which keeps politicians in their ranks, so they can go on with the show
And what a show!.Irving Berlin


The Weapons industry

It's no secret that wars can be extremely profitable both for countries and for private companies.

The companies that manufacture most of the weapons that are used by private mercenaries and government military forces around the world are almost exclusively made by a handful of large companies that are owned or affiliated with some of the richest and most powerful members of the global elite.

The weapons industry has become one of the largest and most profitable industries in the world and the profits from the weapons industry stay almost exclusively in the hands of the global elite.


In the United States them military has weapons contracts with these huge international weapons manufacturers to provide all the weapons, planes, ammunition, gear, and safety equipment for the entire US military.

The US pays billions of dollars per year to the leaders in the weapons industry like Lockheed Martin.

But the US also pays more to these companies indirectly by hiring private security firms like Blackwater and KBR who handle a lot of the high level security for diplomats and politicians in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan and also handle the support tasks for the US military in those countries.

Those private forces also get weapons from the same manufacturers that the military buys them from using the money they receive from the US government for their services.

Anytime there is a huge demand for products that are only made by a small handful of companies those companies will be in the unique position of being able to set their own prices and receive the prices they want for their goods with no questions asked.

Since taxpayers are footing the bill the government has no incentive to bargain the price down or try to get the companies to cut deals.



LEGACY OF GREED

War profiteering is nothing new.

Throughout history whenever the leader of a country or a government needed to stimulate their economy or drum up more cash they would usually start a war to do it because wars are exceedingly profitable for businesses that make weapons or train soldiers or in some capacity are associated with running a successful military campaign.

But the extent to which the weapons industry is profiting from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan while the US military suffers from a lack of money and the governments of Iraq and Afghanistan are left reeling from the cost of caring for the wounded and the dead is shocking even by war profiteering standards.

Private military forces like Blackwater treat war torn countries as they personal playgrounds killing people and stealing from locals and the government alike while they enjoy full immunity from prosecution guaranteed by the US government.

IGNORANCE

For many years the companies making weapons to be used against civilians, like the companies that manufacture White Phospherous weapons such as the ones used on civilians in Palestine by Israel never had to face any public accountability for the horror that their weapons created.

But these days an unedited video of the effects that these weapons have can be posted to the Internet within minutes of detonation, and can be seen by millions of people in under an hour.

Slowly people are beginning to realize the immense danger that these weapons manufacturers represent and are beginning to demand some accountability from these companies.

GOVERNMENT PROTECTION

It's doubtful that the public will ever get the weapons companies to shut down or to curtail the production of potentially cruel weapons.

The governments of most countries, including the US, protect the weapons companies because they are owned by members of the global elite who are the ones that allow those governments to stay in power.

If any member of a government were to try and stop the weapons complex or reduce its power the global elite would simply replace that government with one that wouldn't do what it was told
.
Source.http://www.truth-it.net/weapons_industry.html
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

My simple question is this: You have all the weapons in the world to blow up the world..what is stopping you? If you blow up the world you will be in the same space as me..dead.
 

abdul-aziz

Junior Member
:salam2:

here is a jewish guy that writes:


The Descent Of Power: An Interpretation of the Global Economic Crisis Pt VI - May 22, 2010

(Print Friendly Version)
Napoleon came to power in one of the most chaotic moments in history--the French Revolution. The French people had overthrown a monarchy that had existed for hundreds of years and established a new kind of political order. But because it was so new, nobody quite understood what it all meant. The Revolution led to terror and swings of reaction and more revolution, until in 1796, a turning point had been reached. France's numerous enemies, lead by the Austrians, were threatening to invade the country and reestablish the old monarchy. The fighting had grown particularly intense in Italy. If the Austrians and their allies were able to overrun the French in Italy, they would pour into France from the South and the Revolution would be over.

The campaign in Italy was going badly for the French and so in desperation, they named the 26-year-old Napoleon Bonaparte, former artillery lieutenant, commander of all French forces fighting in Italy. Through some bold maneuvering and some innovative strategies Napoleon was able to save France from disaster, but barely. As a result of his success he was named commander in chief of the French army. After the Italian campaign, Napoleon did some reflecting. He felt there was a better way to wage war; he needed a new kind of army or organizational principle.

Napoleon began by analyzing the way his enemies waged war and their organizational model. Essentially, a typical general would have at his command an army of a certain size and configuration. To make this army more mobile a general could break it up into groups, but what he might gain in flexibility he would lose in control. How could a general continue to direct and monitor the battle, if his army was divided and scattered? This would also violate the key military principle of keeping one's forces concentrated. Control then was more important than mobility, so he would keep this army together.

The general would stay in the back of the advancing forces and command the battle from this safe position. Those in front, the scouts and vanguards, might see something unexpected as the enemy approached, but before they could get the army to adjust to these changes, they would have to pass messages to the general in the back, who would then relay his response to the front, all of which took a lot of time. In addition, this massive force had to be fed and for this purpose large wagons--led by horses and oxen--would accompany the army, slowing it down. In times of bad weather, which were frequent, these supply wagons would come to a complete halt.

Because of all this, armies advanced slowly, both sides tending to march to a point where they would meet in battle. Once there, some clever maneuvering and superior firepower could decide the issue. This form of warfare was completely linear and predictable. Although armies at the turn of the 19th century might look modern, with the latest rifles and artillery, they were fighting according to a model that was ancient. This was essentially the way wars had been fought since Alexander the Great. It was out of fear that generals adhered to this rigid system. War is inherently chaotic and such a system offered the maximum in control.
Napoleon had once compared these generals to Marie Antoinette. What he meant was the following: the Queen had lived through a period of incredible turmoil in France--famine, widespread discontent among the peasants and bourgeoisie, the dissemination of dangerous ideas in the press, etc. To handle all of this, Marie Antoinette employed a strategy: she increased the distance between herself and the French people so as to control what she saw and heard. She imagined that the turmoil was in fact rather superficial. After all, the French monarchy had been through a lot, and this too would pass. Its prestige and authority could never really be challenged. Why lose your head over such momentary fluctuations?
And so she held on to these beliefs all the way to the bitter end.

These generals operated in a similar way. They looked to the past, instead of examining the present. They increased their distance from the common soldier and the shifting realities of war. They held on to the old organizational principle as if it were magical. Ultimately such faith in a timeless power structure or model is a form of magical thinking--your belief system overrides reality.

Napoleon was different from these leaders. He was much younger. He had grown up with the revolution--rising from the bottom of the military, which had now been fashioned into a kind of citizens' army. He was deeply aware of the great changes in the world--social, political, technological. He was aware that this altered the psychology of warfare--the French army was fighting for the sake of the revolution, for the sake of an idea. It was a whole new culture and social dynamic. War had to catch up with these changes; it had to become fast and fluid, to fit the times. In military terms, speed is a force multiplier. It brings momentum and surprise into the battlefield--with speed, an army of 25,000 could have the force of 100,000.

In order to have such power, however, Napoleon would have to reconstruct his army from the ground up. And it is at this point that Napoleon made one of the greatest discoveries in the history of warfare--namely that structure is strategy. The structure of your group, of your army, is what gives it speed and mobility, creates its tone, rhythm and way of action. If you structure it in a dense, bureaucratic and ad-hoc way, you will have a slow, lumbering army, no matter what you try to make them do. You have to be willing to accept a degree of chaos. You have to let go. The fluidity you gain will more than compensate for any momentary loss of control.

After much analysis, Napoleon decided upon the following: He would break his army up into smaller divisions, ranging in size from 20,000 to 80,000. Each of these divisions would be led by a field marshal, who would be inculcated in Napoleon's philosophy of war and in what he wanted in a particular campaign, but these marshals would be allowed to make their own decisions based on what they saw on the battlefield. They would fight in the front of the lines instead of safely in the back, so they could react in real time.

This would be replicated all the way down the line. Lieutenants and sergeants could make decisions for their units based on what they saw, as long as it fit into the overall mission of the division. Napoleon understood very well the new social order and what motivated the common soldier. He enjoyed he freedom from within the army structure, the chance to prove himself, to show initiative. Napoleon would build into the structure of this army the chance for the lowest soldier to rise to the top, based on merit and bravery, a novel concept at the time. Furthermore, they would all be fighting for an idea--to spread the revolution to the rest of Europe.
Napoleon added one small technical detail that revealed his way of thinking: his soldiers would now carry their supplies in carefully designed backpacks, each individual responsible for keeping his supplies in order.
These were the components of the new army--smaller, more mobile units; no supply wagons to slow them down; important decisions that could be made by leaders in the moment; soldiers who were more intensely motivated and engaged in the struggle. It was a force that was considerably faster and more fluid than any other army in Europe. With such a weapon Napoleon could evolve a new strategy, what is known as maneuver warfare. Instead of advancing his troops along a single line, he could throw his five or ten divisions at the enemy in scattered patterns, and they would decide to advance depending on how the enemy reacted. In this way, he recaptured the initiative. He could adjust faster than the enemy and destroy its willpower by making it impossible to foresee his maneuvers.

As you can imagine, with such an army Napoleon dominated the scene for ten years in a way that no other military force has done in history. But there is a second chapter to this story. For the next ten years, from 1806 to 1816, we see a steady decline in his powers. He starts to believe that his success comes from his magical personality and genius, as opposed to the strategies he had invented. He creates his own aristocracy and distances himself from the revolutionary ideals. He begins to slow down with age, and to fight wars the way his enemies had fought them. He believes in overwhelming the enemy with size and firepower, instead of mobility. All of this leads to his tragic campaign in Russia in 1812 and his final defeat at Waterloo in 1816. In essence he had morphed into a kind of Marie Antoinette himself, holding on to the power he had, believing in the magic of his authority and growing increasingly arrogant.

This then is the pattern and the lesson we can learn from any revolutionary period in history: you are either a Marie Antoinette or a Napoleon Bonaparte. One or the other spirit tends to dominate your decision-making process. If you are a Marie Antoinette, you manage to convince yourself that nothing is really changing in the world. You concern yourself with the present, with the pleasures at hand. You trust in the power and privileges you have had in the past. All of this will continue, you tell yourself. In essence, you manage to keep your distance from the events around you. You live in your bubble. Hard times or adversity only strengthen this bubble. If you're a Napoleon Bonaparte, you move in the opposite direction--towards the change coming from the bottom up, towards reality. You want more contact with the world, no matter how chaotic and challenging that might be, because power lies in moving in that direction and exploiting the moment.

The following are the two most critical strategic principles that you must adhere to in times of change: first, speed is of the essence. You need to be able to adapt quickly to events. To do so, your group must be organized to allow for such fluidity. This means creating a structure that is looser and that leaves room for initiative from within. Your brilliant strategies will mean nothing in such times if your organization is bureaucratic and hierarchical. Second, you must unite this group around an idea, a reason for fighting or advancing, beyond money. You are creating a culture where you are harnessing the creativity and energy of your soldiers. The old is finally dying out and leaving space for something youthful and new. You are riding this tide, this historic fatality as it sweeps the globe. In conjunction with these principles, you must be continually vigilant that any kind of success does not slowly transform you into a Marie Antoinette.


http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/the_descent_of_4.phtml
these are business/war strategies in the corporate environment.

bio:http://people.forbes.com/profile/robert-greene/4322

or in this synopsis of his book 33 s tragedies of war:
http://thefuturebuzz.com/2009/06/20/33-strategies-of-war/
news of current events reflect that.


:wasalam:
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
:salam2:

here is a jewish guy that writes:


The Descent Of Power: An Interpretation of the Global Economic Crisis Pt VI - May 22, 2010

(Print Friendly Version)
Napoleon came to power in one of the most chaotic moments in history--the French Revolution. The French people had overthrown a monarchy that had existed for hundreds of years and established a new kind of political order. But because it was so new, nobody quite understood what it all meant. The Revolution led to terror and swings of reaction and more revolution, until in 1796, a turning point had been reached. France's numerous enemies, lead by the Austrians, were threatening to invade the country and reestablish the old monarchy. The fighting had grown particularly intense in Italy. If the Austrians and their allies were able to overrun the French in Italy, they would pour into France from the South and the Revolution would be over.

The campaign in Italy was going badly for the French and so in desperation, they named the 26-year-old Napoleon Bonaparte, former artillery lieutenant, commander of all French forces fighting in Italy. Through some bold maneuvering and some innovative strategies Napoleon was able to save France from disaster, but barely. As a result of his success he was named commander in chief of the French army. After the Italian campaign, Napoleon did some reflecting. He felt there was a better way to wage war; he needed a new kind of army or organizational principle.

Napoleon began by analyzing the way his enemies waged war and their organizational model. Essentially, a typical general would have at his command an army of a certain size and configuration. To make this army more mobile a general could break it up into groups, but what he might gain in flexibility he would lose in control. How could a general continue to direct and monitor the battle, if his army was divided and scattered? This would also violate the key military principle of keeping one's forces concentrated. Control then was more important than mobility, so he would keep this army together.

The general would stay in the back of the advancing forces and command the battle from this safe position. Those in front, the scouts and vanguards, might see something unexpected as the enemy approached, but before they could get the army to adjust to these changes, they would have to pass messages to the general in the back, who would then relay his response to the front, all of which took a lot of time. In addition, this massive force had to be fed and for this purpose large wagons--led by horses and oxen--would accompany the army, slowing it down. In times of bad weather, which were frequent, these supply wagons would come to a complete halt.

Because of all this, armies advanced slowly, both sides tending to march to a point where they would meet in battle. Once there, some clever maneuvering and superior firepower could decide the issue. This form of warfare was completely linear and predictable. Although armies at the turn of the 19th century might look modern, with the latest rifles and artillery, they were fighting according to a model that was ancient. This was essentially the way wars had been fought since Alexander the Great. It was out of fear that generals adhered to this rigid system. War is inherently chaotic and such a system offered the maximum in control.
Napoleon had once compared these generals to Marie Antoinette. What he meant was the following: the Queen had lived through a period of incredible turmoil in France--famine, widespread discontent among the peasants and bourgeoisie, the dissemination of dangerous ideas in the press, etc. To handle all of this, Marie Antoinette employed a strategy: she increased the distance between herself and the French people so as to control what she saw and heard. She imagined that the turmoil was in fact rather superficial. After all, the French monarchy had been through a lot, and this too would pass. Its prestige and authority could never really be challenged. Why lose your head over such momentary fluctuations?
And so she held on to these beliefs all the way to the bitter end.

These generals operated in a similar way. They looked to the past, instead of examining the present. They increased their distance from the common soldier and the shifting realities of war. They held on to the old organizational principle as if it were magical. Ultimately such faith in a timeless power structure or model is a form of magical thinking--your belief system overrides reality.

Napoleon was different from these leaders. He was much younger. He had grown up with the revolution--rising from the bottom of the military, which had now been fashioned into a kind of citizens' army. He was deeply aware of the great changes in the world--social, political, technological. He was aware that this altered the psychology of warfare--the French army was fighting for the sake of the revolution, for the sake of an idea. It was a whole new culture and social dynamic. War had to catch up with these changes; it had to become fast and fluid, to fit the times. In military terms, speed is a force multiplier. It brings momentum and surprise into the battlefield--with speed, an army of 25,000 could have the force of 100,000.

In order to have such power, however, Napoleon would have to reconstruct his army from the ground up. And it is at this point that Napoleon made one of the greatest discoveries in the history of warfare--namely that structure is strategy. The structure of your group, of your army, is what gives it speed and mobility, creates its tone, rhythm and way of action. If you structure it in a dense, bureaucratic and ad-hoc way, you will have a slow, lumbering army, no matter what you try to make them do. You have to be willing to accept a degree of chaos. You have to let go. The fluidity you gain will more than compensate for any momentary loss of control.

After much analysis, Napoleon decided upon the following: He would break his army up into smaller divisions, ranging in size from 20,000 to 80,000. Each of these divisions would be led by a field marshal, who would be inculcated in Napoleon's philosophy of war and in what he wanted in a particular campaign, but these marshals would be allowed to make their own decisions based on what they saw on the battlefield. They would fight in the front of the lines instead of safely in the back, so they could react in real time.

This would be replicated all the way down the line. Lieutenants and sergeants could make decisions for their units based on what they saw, as long as it fit into the overall mission of the division. Napoleon understood very well the new social order and what motivated the common soldier. He enjoyed he freedom from within the army structure, the chance to prove himself, to show initiative. Napoleon would build into the structure of this army the chance for the lowest soldier to rise to the top, based on merit and bravery, a novel concept at the time. Furthermore, they would all be fighting for an idea--to spread the revolution to the rest of Europe.
Napoleon added one small technical detail that revealed his way of thinking: his soldiers would now carry their supplies in carefully designed backpacks, each individual responsible for keeping his supplies in order.
These were the components of the new army--smaller, more mobile units; no supply wagons to slow them down; important decisions that could be made by leaders in the moment; soldiers who were more intensely motivated and engaged in the struggle. It was a force that was considerably faster and more fluid than any other army in Europe. With such a weapon Napoleon could evolve a new strategy, what is known as maneuver warfare. Instead of advancing his troops along a single line, he could throw his five or ten divisions at the enemy in scattered patterns, and they would decide to advance depending on how the enemy reacted. In this way, he recaptured the initiative. He could adjust faster than the enemy and destroy its willpower by making it impossible to foresee his maneuvers.

As you can imagine, with such an army Napoleon dominated the scene for ten years in a way that no other military force has done in history. But there is a second chapter to this story. For the next ten years, from 1806 to 1816, we see a steady decline in his powers. He starts to believe that his success comes from his magical personality and genius, as opposed to the strategies he had invented. He creates his own aristocracy and distances himself from the revolutionary ideals. He begins to slow down with age, and to fight wars the way his enemies had fought them. He believes in overwhelming the enemy with size and firepower, instead of mobility. All of this leads to his tragic campaign in Russia in 1812 and his final defeat at Waterloo in 1816. In essence he had morphed into a kind of Marie Antoinette himself, holding on to the power he had, believing in the magic of his authority and growing increasingly arrogant.

This then is the pattern and the lesson we can learn from any revolutionary period in history: you are either a Marie Antoinette or a Napoleon Bonaparte. One or the other spirit tends to dominate your decision-making process. If you are a Marie Antoinette, you manage to convince yourself that nothing is really changing in the world. You concern yourself with the present, with the pleasures at hand. You trust in the power and privileges you have had in the past. All of this will continue, you tell yourself. In essence, you manage to keep your distance from the events around you. You live in your bubble. Hard times or adversity only strengthen this bubble. If you're a Napoleon Bonaparte, you move in the opposite direction--towards the change coming from the bottom up, towards reality. You want more contact with the world, no matter how chaotic and challenging that might be, because power lies in moving in that direction and exploiting the moment.

The following are the two most critical strategic principles that you must adhere to in times of change: first, speed is of the essence. You need to be able to adapt quickly to events. To do so, your group must be organized to allow for such fluidity. This means creating a structure that is looser and that leaves room for initiative from within. Your brilliant strategies will mean nothing in such times if your organization is bureaucratic and hierarchical. Second, you must unite this group around an idea, a reason for fighting or advancing, beyond money. You are creating a culture where you are harnessing the creativity and energy of your soldiers. The old is finally dying out and leaving space for something youthful and new. You are riding this tide, this historic fatality as it sweeps the globe. In conjunction with these principles, you must be continually vigilant that any kind of success does not slowly transform you into a Marie Antoinette.


http://www.powerseductionandwar.com/archives/the_descent_of_4.phtml
these are business/war strategies in the corporate environment.

bio:http://people.forbes.com/profile/robert-greene/4322

or in this synopsis of his book 33 s tragedies of war:
http://thefuturebuzz.com/2009/06/20/33-strategies-of-war/
news of current events reflect that.


:wasalam:
:salam2:Thank for the links brother.

Appa ,well greed makes humans do things that even animals do not do,like the tortures in Guantanamo for example.It is useless to try and rationalize madness.The problem is when they pretend to be the only ones qualified to rule the word and establish the standards of living together,and the whole Media propaganda show that follows.I wonder if there are still journalist with some integrity most of em have sold their souls and have chosen servitude and enslavement.
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Assalamua'laykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

One thing I dont understand much.

Throughout history whenever the leader of a country or a government needed to stimulate their economy or drum up more cash they would usually start a war to do it because wars are exceedingly profitable for businesses that make weapons or train soldiers or in some capacity are associated with running a successful military campaign.

How exactly does starting a war can stimulate the economy of a country? (Apart from what has been written above)

Ive read that the US government had lost billions of dollars due to the war in Iraq on 2003 and that MOST of the government's money (literally speaking, its the people's money) are spent on wars.

May Allaah guide us all.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, excellent question.

Here are some quick answers..

bullets, planes, nuclear weapons, tanks, trucks, helicopters, war naval vessels, they need to be built.

clothing, and food rations, medical equipment for the soldiers.

Eric Prince..do a google search...nasty Haliburton...Federal Reserve Bank...

contracts for roads to be built in Afghanistan;


Jameel,

The journalist with any integrity are not on the air. They do pod casts. They have all been fired from the mainstream and even leftist media. They still preach the truth. And you youngsters with your youtube/cell phone forwarding information keeps the truth alive. We, the truth tellers, are really underground. Because the average person does not listen to us.
 

abdul-aziz

Junior Member
Assalamua'laykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

One thing I dont understand much.



How exactly does starting a war can stimulate the economy of a country? (Apart from what has been written above)

Ive read that the US government had lost billions of dollars due to the war in Iraq on 2003 and that MOST of the government's money (literally speaking, its the people's money) are spent on wars.

May Allaah guide us all.


:salam2:

true they spent a lot of money, but not a lot for the country what it earns from taxation.

remember when someone wins a battle they usually get booty of war. In these cases they don't disclose how much natural resources wealth they are getting. Trust me Afghanistan, is loaded with high demand artifacts, be it metal, gems, or even black gold, most mountainous areas are full of expensive high demand things.

wa Allah ya'lam

:wasalam:
 

Aisya al-Humaira

الحمدلله على كل حال
Assalaam walaikum,

Sister, excellent question.

Here are some quick answers..

bullets, planes, nuclear weapons, tanks, trucks, helicopters, war naval vessels, they need to be built.

clothing, and food rations, medical equipment for the soldiers.

Eric Prince..do a google search...nasty Haliburton...Federal Reserve Bank...

contracts for roads to be built in Afghanistan;

Wa'alaykummusalaam wa rahmatullah,

Yes, I understand that those things need to be built. However, does the money spent (for all of the materials above and with rebuilding the country being attacked) EQUALS to the 'profit' gained?

. . .and all this reminds me of the word 'capitalisme'. The rich become richer and the poors become poorer. And of course, it is only those big, industrialized countries that can initiate wars to less-developed/third world countries.
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

Most of the money is spent on building the machinery at home. The contracts are the reward for the aftermath. And the booty of war. You do not wage war on depleted lands...you are after riches...why do you think Africa is a mess. It's about money.

We can not generalize and say only the capitalized countries wage war...sometimes we have rebellion. Do not think that underdeveloped countries are totally innocent.

Also, there are many people in countries such as Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan that make millions by assisting the aggressors against the indigenous population. Money is wroth more than nationalism. I can become the citizen of any country...I can not make millions by just being a citizen...so my loyalty goes to money.
 

justoneofmillion

Junior Member
Assalamua'laykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakaatuh,

One thing I dont understand much.



How exactly does starting a war can stimulate the economy of a country? (Apart from what has been written above)

Ive read that the US government had lost billions of dollars due to the war in Iraq on 2003 and that MOST of the government's money (literally speaking, its the people's money) are spent on wars.

May Allaah guide us all.
ASalaamu aleikum,
Sister,Whether the government can balance it s budget during and after a war by eventually stealing the countries resources ,fixing low prices ..etc.deosnt really matter to the bankers they usually always win!It s more a question of private interest than one based on patriotism .And the more a war extends in time the more the governments will borrow money the more the debt based on Riba( interest ) increases.It is well known that these international bankers used to finance both sides of a war.In world war II for example the same Bankers that financed the US and Britain financed Hitler as well.If a government can not pay back it s debt it can also not pretend to any territorial sovereignty or Political autonomy.Here is an interesting article.And a very simplified video on how todays monetary systems works.

How and Why International Bankers Make Wars
The First President of the World
In June of 1919, the victorious powers were in Paris deliberating over the best way to carve up Europe. With each national delegation came a coterie of financial advisors: Paul Warburg negotiating for the Americans and Max Warburg defending the interests of the Germans. Woodrow Wilson found his hour amongst this milieu of dignitaries.
jpmorgan.jpg
paulwarburg.jpg
JacobSchiff.jpg


Wilson forbade copies of the Treaty of Versailles being given to the Senate, Congress or any common American. He did not discuss the deals he made on behalf of the American people with their representatives. While British, French and German delegates regularly informed their governments and people of the terms of this “peace,” the Americans were conspicuously kept in the dark.

But not every American. A few select personages in New York were kept informed about the terms of the treaty. Eventually Senator Borah of Idaho learned the source of these leaked government documents. Mr. Jacob Schiff, Mr. J. P. Morgan, Mr. Paul Warburg, Mr. Thomas Lamont, Mr. Henry P. Davison and Mr. Frank A. Vanderlip were subpoenaed to testify before the Committee on Foreign Relations of the United States Senate. [1]

The Witnesses:

Five years before Paul Warburg had been appointed to the Federal Reserve Board and J.P. Morgan (the elder) was a driving force behind the Bank's creation. Warburg had designed the Fed system: its aims were the centralization of banking control and a bottomless source of credit for the US Congress. Jacob Schiff was also in the business of lending to governments; he was partner in Kuhn Loeb and Company and related to Warburg by marriage. All three had ties to the older banking houses in Frankfurt and London.



The less famous men were no less interesting:
Henry P. Davison was a member of the J.P. Morgan & Co., chairman of the American Red Cross and League of Red Cross Societies. The Red Cross had privileged access to both sides of the Great War under their neutral flag.
Thomas Lamont was a member of JP Morgan & Co. too, and the US Treasury's advisor to the American Peace Delegation in Paris (the negotiators of the Versailles Treaty). Both sides of the Federal Reserve partnership were represented in this man.
Frank A. Vanderlip was a journalist who became president of the National City Bank (now Citibank). In between these positions he was Assistant Secretary of the US Treasury. It was under Vanderlip's guidance that National City became the first American bank to expand overseas. He also created the International American Corporation: a banking conglomerate which had 17 branches world wide by the end of the First World War. Vanderlip was also a trustee of the Carnegie Foundation for the Advancement of Teaching. [2]

Comedy
jpmorganjr.jpg
HenryDavison.jpg
FrankVanderlip.jpg



The hearing was a political battle between senators concerned with American national interests and compromised senators desperately trying to absolve the witnesses. From the financiers subpoenaed, only J.P. Morgan Jr., Davison and Vanderlip bothered to show up.
SenatorBorah.jpg




The Senate committee was methodical in the order of witnesses. Firstly, Senator Borah recounted his information about the existence in New York of copies of the peace treaty with Germany. Specifically, powerful financiers had secured copies and were using them to their private advantage. It was illegal to have copies of the undisclosed text: the best information that the Senate had about the treaty was just one Associated Press dispatch.
ElihuRoot.jpg


Senator Henry Cabot Lodge volunteered to testify that he had seen a copy of the treaty in New York, but it was shown to him by a friend with absolutely no ties to financial circles. Senator Lodge had never heard of anyone in finance ever seeing the treaty. He repeated this message several times.

President Wilson wrote to the committee himself to reaffirm that unauthorized possession of the treaty in the US was against the law. This was interesting, seeing as his closest advisors were the source of the leak.

The Secretary of State Frank Lyon Polk asserted that all copies of the treaty legally in the United States were in his possession — specifically, they were locked in a safe in his office with the diplomatic seals unbroken.

Senator Elihu Root offered testimony next. The thrust of Senator Root's speech was to extol the munificence of Mr. Davison, and distance himself form this case of corporate espionage. In his effort to clear Davison, Elihu contradicted both the President's and Secretary Polk's testimony: he claimed copies of the treaty were very common in the US. According to Senator Root, every American staffer in Paris (there were over 200) was likely to have leaked the text. It was simply a strange coincidence that he was the only US Senator able to get a copy. (Elihu's treaty had been supplied by Davison.)

Tragedy


HenryDavison.jpg


In his personal testimony Davison did not try to hide the fact that Thomas Lamont had given him the treaty. Instead, Davison said his power as “Secretary of the Red Cross” and an “international banker” justified his having a copy. Davison's self-importance was astounding. He claimed that only his organizations were able to rebuild Europe: firstly through the Red Cross Organization, then through a consortium of private bankers which would marshal America's resources for a massive loan. The “League of Nations” was the new world power and Davison part of that league — so the US government was inconsequential by comparison.

Davison's “consortium of private bankers” were his Kuhn Loeb, J. P. Morgan and National City Bank connections, as well as their partners in London and Frankfurt. He wanted to use the newly-established banking monopoly — the Federal Reserve System — to make loans to the European governments. American money would be lent out, but the US government would be excluded from the process and private bankers would collect the interest. Mr. Davison thought that the Liberty Bond organization was the perfect organ to implement this plan. (Liberty bonds provided the bulk of the American financing for the First World War.) The fact that this organization could be used outside of Washington's control provides insight into its inner workings.

“Europe must be regarded now as a whole” [3]

The testimonies of J P Morgan and Vanderlip shed more light on how this new loan process would work. JP Morgan tells us that the US Government bought over seven billion dollars worth of European bonds from his firm and Kuhn Loeb & Co. in the years leading up to the war. After that, Vanderlip explains why Europe's debts to the US government must be forgiven. Europe couldn't afford new loans if they had to repay the old ones.

The reader should remember that these bankers make money by selling bonds, not by holding them until they are repaid. When financiers lobby to forgive debt, they are setting up more profits for themselves while asking the general public to eat the losses. The same trick is used today through the IMF, World Bank and their various off-shoots.
Foreshadowing

The way that the new loan was designed would have created an economically unified Europe in one sweep. The bankers would become the central planners of this empire, not unlike the Bolsheviks in Russia two years before, or the planners in Brussels today.

Vanderlip disclosed why it was important that the bankers hold the new loan. He explained how European governments could pay the interest: by giving the bankers first lien on the customs of each country. This means Europe would pay the bankers with their products. The financiers would determine how the loans were parceled out to each country, and what industries get what materials. The point is that the bankers would control the resulting monopolies. This is exactly what international financiers liked about Communism and early Fascism.

Far from being a champion of “self-determination,” the US president assisted these financiers behind Congress's and the Senate's back. Wilson chose to ignore the fact that the House and Senate had to ratify his proposals before they became law or America's commitments. Why? It was obvious that the United States Congress was not politically disposed to the financiers' aims. In Senator Borah's words, Woodrow was acting like “President of the World.”

Wilson_paris.jpg


By digging into the treaty leak in New York, the Committee shed light on an attempt to end the sovereignty of at least fifteen nations: America through political disenfranchisement and those in Europe through economic dictatorship. The reader can judge for themselves how far this plan came to fruition.


[1] Investigation Relevant to the Peace Treaty With Germany: Senate Committee on Foreign Relations Hearing, Sixty-sixth Congress, First Session. Pursuant to Senate Resolution 64: Directing the Committee on Foreign Relations to investigate whether copies of the peace treaty with Germany are in the city of New York, by whom and how they were obtained, and so forth. 1919.

[2] Harvard University's “20th Century Great American Business Leaders.” Accessed June 2007. The Modern History Project, as quoted from: "The Vanderlip, Van Derlip, Vander Lippe Family in America", by Charles Edwin Booth, New York, 1914.

[3] Quotation from Mr. Vanderlip's testimony before the Committee.


Money as Debt:A very simple Illustration on the Current monetary system.

[vg]6433985877267580603#[/vg]
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
^ Thanks for mentioning debt. I was reading through the posts and had seen little mention of the word, I'll watch the video when I have more time.

In short; the worth of any conflict lies in the amount of debt that is created from it. Its not even so much about making profit from weapons sales, its more sick than that, its about control, those who control the debt hold the real power. The aim is to make as many individuals, communities, nations, indebted and conflicts do that quicker than anything else, so billions are invested in conflicts, keeping old ones going and creating new ones because for them it is definitely worth it.

Wa-salaam
 

Aapa

Mirajmom
Assalaam walaikum,

It is not debt but robbing people of a good and simple life. Simple lesson in banking. I, the slave of the shaytan, due to my circles can get a loan for my friend from the bank. My friend gets the money. However, he can not repay the bank..so I take the money from the taxpayer. The banker is happy. My friend got away with money. I am happy and in power...and the tax-payer..poor sucker ...his son can be my solider as I rape another country.
 

al-fajr

...ism..schism
Staff member
Assalaam walaikum,

It is not debt but robbing people of a good and simple life. Simple lesson in banking. I, the slave of the shaytan, due to my circles can get a loan for my friend from the bank. My friend gets the money. However, he can not repay the bank..so I take the money from the taxpayer. The banker is happy. My friend got away with money. I am happy and in power...and the tax-payer..poor sucker ...his son can be my solider as I rape another country.

Wa-alaikum salaam Aapa,

Absolutely, what you say is correct from 'our' perspective. We see it in real human terms because we still have our humanity entact. Alhamdulillaah, but on the other hand from a bankers persepective, or the elite, it is solely about enhancing their control over the masses by any means necessary, for them conflicts are just a necessary tool in the tool box and as far as they are concerned, the means justifies the end.

Edit: I think what Im getting at is they may get a thrill from it but its bigger than the thrill the banker gets from playing money games with individuals and ruining their lives, the control is long lasting, so much so that nowadays people are born with debt on their heads in some places. I am sure the landscape it is creating will only fully materialise when other players have taken the place of the current ones working at it anyway.

May Allaah destroy their plans, Ameen.
 
Top