To my displeasure...

[rivergum]

If TV offends, why turn the thing on in the first place?

 

[ShahnazZ]

Salaam respected sister,

I do not want to argue or cause a problem, but I would not say that when addressing Kafir's problems with Islam. Usually, if a person is good with homosexuality - they also dislike Judaism and Christianity.

To say "Well, well Christianity does it too" makes a person look very bad. When disucssing Islam's reasons for things - ONLY DISCUSS ISLAM. Unless of course they want to compare the 2 religions.

Just my 2cents.

I understand what you're saying. I also thought about that while writing out that response. I mean the question was about Islam and pointing out everyone else's flaws instead makes it look like we're copping out.

However.

The fact that they may dislike Christianity and Judaism is a possibility but it is not a certainty. There are many hypocrites out there that preach that Christianity and Judaism are the very antithesis of Islam and this just points out their hypocrisy. This is for those that adhere to one of those religions.

Also, the idea here isn't to badmouth Christianity and Judaism, hence their usage as comparison and not contrast. If someone does hate all three, they would have to first see that it is a blatant FACT these three are the biggest religions in the world and have the most adherents. Therefore there IS some basis to them.

Once again, I would ask them to deconstruct. You would have to first ask them why they dislike all three. Usually their answer is a collective one pertaining to all three (i.e. "They're all artificial and pit men against each other."). If that's the case, the debate then becomes about the validity of religion and belief in one God.

THEN, you narrow it down. You point out the commonalities before pointing out the differences between each. It makes it easier for one then to understand which is left as the truth and which is consisting of falsehood.

I apologize for turning this into an approach on the validity of religion but I feel that including these two religions in the argument packs for a pretty powerful punch. For those for whom it is relevant, you're knocking down two titans while promoting the third.

Either way, I kept that bit about mentioning Christianity and Judaism in the original response short because the argument could do without mention of them.

To each his own. Wanna mention them? Mention them. Don't wanna mention them. Don't.

Islam wins in either case.

 

[Murad206]

Assalamu alaikum, subhan'Allah. May Allah guide them insha'Allah, yeah that's ... not good and he probably wasn't even a Muslim in my opinion. I wouldn't be surprised earthier because TV always makes these fake stories and fake people talking about fake stories on all the time, even on the news if i'm not wrong.

 

[IHearIslam]

:salam2:

Immediately the thought came into my mind that Islam strictly forbids homosexuality and now I see a person calling them-self a Muslim coming and normalising homosexuality in Islam.

Just because somebody "normalizes" Haraam does not make it Halal brother. Remember that! Islam is clear---you either follow it as it is, or you don't! simple as that. The fact that he/she normalizing homosexuality does not make it right and acceptable. These are the people who would rather follow their own desires instead of the Qur'an and the Sunnah---we ask Allah to guide us all to the path of righteousness for indeed NONE of us are perfect!

 

[Bubbybobble]

Some arguments here really aren't concrete. Some issues like this can't be argued and you just simply say its part of the religion and is a rule.


Otherwise trying to justify it will cause problems. Especially the worldly people. Make sure you have an argument (or a good rebuttal) for the tough questions like:

"Well, there are many gay couples that raise good families. What about the straight father that walks out on his kids life?".

"Your religion isn't peace if you kill gays".


"If it's His way he wants things created,then why do humans even think about it? Also, aren't there same sex animals"?

"Why hasn't any one been cured of homosexuality?"

"Straight people get AIDS too, so what's the big deal?"

"If a woman can't have kids, isn't that going against the design of God too?"


Yes, these are the really tough questions that get asked. I would take a minute to think on it and have a layed out plan on how to conquer this.

Remember, many gay people think its a human right and will compare their struggles to interracial relationships.

 

[ShahnazZ]

Some arguments here really aren't concrete.

Not sure how but you're more than welcome to present one of your own.

Some issues like this can't be argued and you just simply say its part of the religion and is a rule.

Now THAT is an argument that isn't concrete. People don't care about following rules unless they see benefit in them. It's one thing to already believe in Islam as a religion; it's an entirely different thing to impose its rules on people who do not believe in it.

Otherwise trying to justify it will cause problems. Especially the worldly people.

Justifying it is only a problem if you don't have adequate knowledge about your own religion. If a person knows nothing about the system they're trying to defend, then OF COURSE there's going to be a problem when they spew out meaningless and incoherent information.

Make sure you have an argument (or a good rebuttal) for the tough questions like:

"Well, there are many gay couples that raise good families. What about the straight father that walks out on his kids life?".

Generalizations can't be made. Outliers exist in every population. If one straight father acts a certain way, that doesn't mean all straight fathers will. Gay couples may raise good families but they're passing on the idea that not only are same-sex relations okay, but they're potent enough to create and build a stable family unit. Families are the core units of society. Just what kind of society are you creating when its very foundations are immoral and unnatural?

"Your religion isn't peace if you kill gays".

This is where the individual needs to reevaluate why they're engaging in the debate. You need to think about what your reasoning is. Are you doing it to please the sentiments of non-Muslims? Or are you doing it to truly clear up misconceptions?

Again, this argument is only relevant if the person you're debating with is aware of the severity of homosexuality and just HOW MUCH it is hated by God. We live in a secular society where morals are trumped by civil rights. Therefore such a statement can only be made by someone who has zero understanding of how severe and how horrendous such a sin truly is.

The first step would be to educate the individual on why homosexuality is detrimental. Only then can its punishment be understood. And frankly, people these days have different definitions of peace. We shouldn't care about appeasing everyone and their definitions. We stay true to who we are and Allah does the rest and guides whomever He so chooses.

Secondly, there's a method to it. Implementing a hadd punishment is the responsibility of the ruler of the country because only he has the right to do so. Individual Muslims cannot implement the hadd punishment because it would cause chaos in society and frankly, we're not at liberty to do so.

""If it's His way he wants things created,then why do humans even think about it?"

Because this life is a test and if it was meant to be smooth sailing all the way, Adam and Eve would never have left Jannah. We are constantly tested in this life to see just how much we persevere and struggle in His Name. That includes fighting your own thoughts and temptations. If we were all sinless and perfect, there wouldn't be a reason to struggle and struggling is the currency to Paradise.

Jannah isn't exactly free. You're not going to get it on a silver platter.

SOME sacrifice IS required.

"Also, aren't there same sex animals"?

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala made human beings the most superior of all His Creation. We are not at the same level as animals. Animals will not have to answer for their actions on the Day of Judgment and have zero accountability to God. Humans on the other hand DO. Why? Because we were given the intellect and moral fortitude that animals were not. We have more to answer for. Why would we want to bring ourselves to the level of animals who don't even have to answer to God for their actions?

"Why hasn't any one been cured of homosexuality?"

This one is actually counterproductive and makes our argument even more solid. People haven't been cured of homosexuality because it's NOT a biological product. It's a social and voluntary one.

Can't exactly use natural remedies to wipe out a person's own voluntary tendency.

"Straight people get AIDS too, so what's the big deal?"

Not exactly sure what the purpose of this question is. What's the big deal about what? People who get AIDS or the disease itself?

If you're trying to say that AIDS isn't a homosexual-only disease, then the argument for that would be that transmission occurs more in homosexual couples than in heterosexual ones and if a heterosexual individual does contract AIDS, that usually means that somewhere along the chain connected to that individual, a heterosexual individual had relations with a homosexual. Either that or drug use (which is also haram).

According to US research, in order for the straight US population to contract HIV, as great as that of gay men, they would need to average almost five unprotected sexual partners every year. This is a rate almost three times that of gay men.

Why? Hint: Their preferred method of intimacy is one that is haram for heterosexual couples in Islam and you can clearly see why.

"If a woman can't have kids, isn't that going against the design of God too?"

Again, this life is about being tested. It's not going againt God's design if HE's the One who designed it. A woman's inability to have children is not haram and is not corrupting society because it isn't rampant, chaotic, or having disastrous consequences for the future. Humans have accountability and it's how she chooses to handle her dilemma that will either make her or break her.

Anything else?

"Yes, these are the really tough questions that get asked. I would take a minute to think on it and have a layed out plan on how to conquer this.

I agree. Anyone who is lacking in Islamic knowledge should definitely take the time to educate themselves before speaking on behalf of the religion.

Islam has all the answers. It's not based on meaningless rules as there's meaning behind EVERY rule. People are thinking and pondering individuals. Simply telling them that something is a rule isn't going to satisfy their intellect and will most likely push them away from a system they see as backward and unyielding. There HAS to be a method to it or what's to differentiate it from being any different from some ancient Draconian cult?

Why, oh WHY, would we deny the opportunity to explain those meanings to the world and prove how powerful the message of Islam truly is? How else would you describe dawah?

 

[ATA95]

Awesome post sister, you rock!