VEGETARIAN

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Assalamu'alaikum,

My learned brothers and sisters, one of my catholic friends istaking only vegetarian food for 47 days until Good Friday. I've been talking to him about bible recently but it appears he know nothing about bible when I pointed out there is verses in the bible that prohibiting christian from consuming pork though he regularly goes to church.

I need to know why catholic are taking vegetarian. Anything to do with St. James who is happen to be complete vegetarian? Pls help me to explain this.

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello,

I'm not a learned Muslim but, can tell you why some Catholics may eat pork. It was Paul from the New Testament who stated that he had a vision. The vision included God opening gates and Paul saw all types of animals come through and God stated that he has made these animals clean to eat. Paul continues to say that he never ate unclean meat. Then, God says (something to the effect of...) who are you to question what I have made clean. Not even to mention later translations of the Bible may change specific words making it a little harder to understand what should be done to properly follow God. Also, there is the whole 'New Covenant' idea that supposedly changed what was in the Old Testament as a result of Jesus' death. But, not sure why this came to be if Jesus himself was Jewish and followed all the Jewish customs. And, God went into some detail explaining clean and unclean food in the Old Testament. But, you will hear some Christians (most but, not all) say many of times that the Old Testament does not refer to the present since they are under the 'New Covenant'.

Verses referring to cleanliness of meat in the New Testament:
Acts 10:15
Roman 14:20
Mark 7:19 (Declaring Jesus (PBUH) said all food was clean...in parenthesis)...Of course, this is in one of the NIV translations. First time I saw this twist put on Jesus' (PBUH)words

Hope this helps.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Thanks brother Ayman. Sister Ladybug, the subject matter is I want to know why they are on vegetarian now? Can you assist?

My catholic friend do not take pork, he claim that he can't even pass by shop selling pork. But when I ask him do you know pork is prohibited in your bible, he said yes. His father told him but he personally never verify against bible. The role and credibility of Paul or Saul of Tarsus is really in question. So I do not want to go on this issue.

Why they are on vegetarian? I know St. James is a vegetarian.

 

[Aapa]

Salaam,

From Ash Wedsnesday to Good Friday many Christians, mostly Catholic but other denominations such as Anglicans fast. Jesus fasted for 40 in the Gardens of Gethsemane and they follow that tradition.
On Fridays most Catholics never ate meat. Thus they do not eat meat during Lent.; the 40 days before Holy Week. Most Catholics who take communion do not eat meat. Your body has to be clean to take communion.
During Lent most people give up something. Most give up red meat. On Good Friday you do not eat meat. You wait until Easter Sunday.

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello Hard Rock Moslem,

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

I saw that Ayman1 answered your question by saying 'Lent' and I assumed (shouldn't assume) you would Google the word or something. But, I realized today that you probably want to receive the information from a trusted source - I'm still learning how things work here at TTI. Besides if I answered your question on Lent I would have only been able to provide 1/2 the information Mirajmom provided. So, all for the best.

Anyway, I was answering a so called second question that in the blur of very early this morning (more like lastnight for me) I thought I saw but, can't really find it now. LOL! The question went something like this... 'Why do Catholics think it's okay to eat pork. So, I proceeded to answer it. lol.

You see, Being that at this point I'm neither Christian, Muslim or Jewish but, I know that people shouldn't eat pork or other food deemed unclean. That is why I provided words like 'New Covenant', which, you may already know. But, despite growing up in the Christian churches (Baptist, Catholic, non denomination Christian, and a little Jehovah Witness) I have no idea of what it really means but, I'm sure it's in there somewhere. (if you find out - let me know as it is something on my list of 'to learn' but, it comes after I learn a few other things) See I think we have to understand them before changing them and you will never hit the right cord.

Paul, yeah many folks don't agree with him. A couple of days ago a Catholic woman called him a trouble maker. But, you have to realize Christians revere him - he created the new testament. It is considered a miracle that he was a murderer of Christians and then became one.

Christians today are living wrong and I ask why don't they change and that's because no one ever decided to do so. So, they still celebrate Christmas and eat pork. (I know you probably know this).

Long story made short...if your friend is having trouble walking by a shop with pork it sounds like a personal struggle that I can relate to. Even though it may sound gross to you - pork tastes good. My husband accidentally ate pork once because 'Papa John's' pizza had the pork under the cheese. His sisters asked how did it taste and he admitted it was good (of course he was upset at the situation) Pork is everywhere. It's bacon on our hamburgers, pepporoni on the pizza, can't get a breakfast sandwich without meat unless it's pork. A lot of cooking recipes have pork etc...So, that may be why someone will eat it even if they know it's wrong. The conviction to do right is missing. The will power etc... kind of like a person who is over weight learning healthy eating habits.

So, I hope this helps you with helping your friend with eating the way God requires. And, if I went to far off subject or anything like that...well, my bad.

Thanks

 

[sazk]

The book of Leviticus and book of isaiah explicitly state that pork is forbidden.

it tastes good? yuck! i think i'm about to throw up! yuck yuck yuck. any special reason why all of the East despises pig meat (from africa to far east asia)? and all of the west loves to eat pig meat. some of the habits of the west are truly disgusting (i dont need to go in details, use you brain and imagination)

 

[q8penpals]

Assalam aliekum

As a convert, I have no actual aversion to pork, other than that I am not supposed to eat it. I ate it most of my life and had no problems whatsoever with the taste or anything.

And with respect to the previous poster about pork not being in the East, pigs were first domesticated by the Chinese (who are still the largest consumers of pork) and if you include wild boars, Africa has a tradition of pork in history. Pigs (as a domesticated animal) were introduced to America from Europe, and to Europe from the East. Domesticated pigs came FROM the east TO the west.

Also, for whatever you may say, pork is the fastest growing meat product in developing countries, including Asian countries.

The only part of the world without a real history of eating pork seems to be the actual Middle east, the Africa-Arabic countries, and the -stan countries.

THAT SAID, I am not saying it is right to eat pork if God says NO. I just hate when people blame "the west" for everything when it is not true.

 

[sazk]

this is classic programming in action: former christians who grew up living like that have no aversion to pig meat. born muslims who were told that pig meat is haram, are disgusted at how a person can eat such a filthy animal that lives in its own filth, is willing to eat its own shat, has sex with a 1000 partners in its lifetime, offers the mother of its child to other pigs, and above all, contains parasitic tapeworms.

i live with african christians. none of them eat pork. they hate it. they have no history of pork consumption. wild boars are found all over the 4 continents but only the west loves to eat pigs.

chinese only became pork eaters after christian missionaries came to them and converted them. those missionaries came from the west.

a pig is despised all across the east. even in a non muslim country like india or nepal, they detest pigs. only the west wants to consume pig meat, for some odd reason only they have a great attraction to pigs. grossss!

the west have great love for alcohol that gives them liver scelerosis, pigs that give them tapeworms, and letting their daughters dress like sex objects.

 

[Ladybug3478]

Hello,

Sazk, LOL! You are too much!

 

[q8penpals]

Assalam aliekum sakz

I don't understand your hostility in your post in response to mine. You seem to get very defensive very quickly.

I only wish to present facts - it does not take much researching to find out that domestication of pigs happened in Asia (specifically China) 1000s of years before it was BROUGHT to Europe by the missionaries who went to China - domesticated even before Christianity existed. And, it was easy for me to find out that pork (due to its very cheap cost) is the fastest growing meat product in developing countries.

And, again, while I will posts FACTS, I am NOT disagreeing that God said DON'T EAT PIGS!

"The pig is one of the oldest forms of livestock, having been domesticated as early as 5000 BC.[4] It is believed to have been domesticated either in the Near East or in China from the wild boar. The adaptable nature and omnivorous diet of this creature allowed early humans to domesticate it much earlier than many other forms of livestock, such as cattle. Pigs were mostly used for food, but people also used their hide for shields and shoes, their bones for tools and weapons, and their bristles for brushes. Pigs have other roles within the human economy: their feeding behaviour in searching for roots churns up the ground and makes it easier to plough; their sensitive noses lead them to truffles, an underground fungus highly valued by humans; and their omnivorous nature enables them to eat human rubbish, keeping settlements cleaner."

"Pork is the most widely eaten meat in the world, providing about 38 percent of daily meat protein intake worldwide, although consumption varies widely from place to place.[7] This is despite religious restrictions on the consumption of pork and the prominence of beef production in the West. Pork consumption has been rising for thirty years, both in actual terms and in terms of meat-market share."

"Pork is popular throughout eastern Asia and the Pacific, where whole roast pig is a popular item in Pacific Island Cuisine. It may also be consumed in Hindu or Christian areas of Muslim countries where it is otherwise forbidden, such as Bali in Indonesia.[9] It is consumed in a great many ways and highly esteemed in Chinese cuisine.[9] There, pork is preferred over beef due to economic and aesthetic reasons; the pig is easy to feed and is not used for labour. The colour of the meat and the fat of pork are regarded as more appetizing, while the taste and smell are described as sweeter and cleaner. It is also considered easier to digest.[10]"


If you choose to blindly follow without looking at facts, that is your choice, but please don't be rude about it.

I forgive your rudeness and hostility toward me - You are young yet and I cannot hold a grudge against a fellow Muslim.


Masalama - I will not post to this thread again.

Lana

 

[sazk]

yes pig meat is growing in china and east asia, but only according to pro-pig lovers websites.. where is the research done to support the claims? where is the methodology used? yes china and the far east are rapidly eating pork now, after they have been converted to christianity due to lack of knowledge, and christian missionary tactics.

The adaptable nature and omnivorous diet of this creature allowed early humans to domesticate it much earlier than many other forms of livestock, such as cattle

the first domesticated animals were livestock, not pigs. if u ever see a wild boar, try to domesticate it, it will show you the sharp end of its tusks.

Pigs have other roles within the human economy: their feeding behaviour in searching for roots churns up the ground and makes it easier to plough;their sensitive noses lead them to truffles, an underground fungus highly valued by humans; and their omnivorous nature enables them to eat human rubbish, keeping settlements cleaner."

pure pig lovers lie. cows manure helps fertilize the ground. if pigs churned up grounds then why did early man invent the plough????

The colour of the meat... regarded as more appetizing, while the taste and smell are described as sweeter and cleaner. It is also considered easier to digest.[10]"

again... lies, lies, lies. color of a meat has nothing to do with appetitite. has any human being... ever!... felt like "oh gosh! this meat is so weird in color, i think i'll eat it coz its making me soooo hungry!". color makes it more appetizing LOL, this is funnier than laurel and hardy working with the three stooges.

and believe me, pig smell is NOT sweet NOR clean. it smells like a sick hospital ward.

how do they even know if its easier to digest? where are the subject groups? where is the control group who was given the placebo meat? what was the sample taken from the population? before mr.pig lover made up this stuff what were the medical health of the sample size?

http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/LDP/May05/LDPM13001/

http://reactor-core.org/pork-consumption.html

http://www.webmd.com/colorectal-cancer/news/20021115/colon-cancer-rise-linked-to-beef-pork

wasalam

 

[al-fajr]

the west have great love for alcohol that gives them liver scelerosis

liver cirrhosis

 

[ShyHijabi]

Salaam brother Sazk,

Sister Lana provided historically accurate information concerning pigs. Pigs didn't even exist in the West until imported so I don't see why you want to say it is a Western phenomenon. Pork is an easily raised animal and the Chinese have been eating it many, many thousands of years before Christianity was even introduced to the region.

This isn't about some conspiracy from people who consume pork, it's facts plain and simple. I've studied Asian history of the far east and many times pork is mentioned in their literature as food. China has some of the most ancient records of culture and dietary practices, and pork has always been a meat source to them. Given that you can raise a pig anywhere and feed them pretty much anything, they were an easy source of nutrition for even the poor.

Like sister Lana I am somewhat confused by your vehemence concerning what is factually correct information. You abhor pork becaue you have been raised to hate it. But if you had been raised being fed it your whole life I guarantee you wouldn't have this emotional reaction. Swine comes from the East and also the mentaility that it is an acceptable food source also comes from the East. The West simply adapted to it when it was imported. This isn't some conspiracy to hoodwink the East, it is fact based of anthropological records.

Wasalaam

 

[khangul]

Sister Lana provided historically accurate information concerning pigs. Pigs didn't even exist in the West until imported so I don't see why you want to say it is a Western phenomenon. Pork is an easily raised animal and the Chinese have been eating it many, many thousands of years before Christianity was even introduced to the region.
:salam2:
yes sister dr zakir naik also mensioned it in his lecture.he took some verses from Hindu scripture about pork where he was explaining that meat is allowed in Hindu religion.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

yes sister dr zakir naik also mensioned it in his lecture.he took some verses from Hindu scripture about pork where he was explaining that meat is allowed in Hindu religion.

I think we are sidetracking from the original question, vegetarian to pig stories. Anyway, it is interesting.

Sister Mirajmon thanks for your answer. You have cleared some doubts.

On the above statement, I need to verify this. As ex-hindu I never heard hindu can consumed pork. Most hindus learned from chinese how to cook and eat pork. But I know hindu in general can take meat including beef but no I idea about pork.

 

[Hard Rock Moslem]

Hello Hard Rock Moslem,

Sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Thanks

No issue sister. Thanks for contributing.

 

[Tabassum07]

I don't see how arguing about where the pigs came from, where they went or who domesticated them or ate them first really matters. We must never eat them, and that's the bottom line. Honestly, some people would eat anything, anything. (Seriously, have you guys seen Anthony Bourdain, No Reservations. I cannot watch that show without feeling queasy.) But does it make it permissible? No. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.