What to recite when praying in a group??

[lolokopp]

:salam2:

I want to know whether we have to recite something along the recitation of the Imam or not. If yes, what do we have to recite and what if the Imam is faster than us??

:salam2:

 

[lolokopp]

And what to recite in Zuhr / Asr Prayers when the Imam prays silently??

 

[Vedo]

:salam2:

You recite fatiha in all rakats, if imam recite loud you recite it after imam say amiin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrmV8rZZJm0&feature=related

When imam prays silent you recite subhaneke(or another starting dua) , euzu, Bismillah, fatiha, Bismillah and surah on first and second rakat.

On 3 and 4 rakat you recite just Bismillah and Fatiha. You recite all of this silent, but you must move your tongue.

 

[lolokopp]

:salam2:

What if the Imam is faster in reading the Fatiha than I am?
Sometimes the Imam bows to Ruku and I'm still busy reciting Al-Fatiha so I cant recite it until end.
(Mostly happens when the Imam recites silently)

What do I have to do then??

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

What if the Imam is faster in reading the Fatiha than I am?
Sometimes the Imam bows to Ruku and I'm still busy reciting Al-Fatiha so I cant recite it until end.
(Mostly happens when the Imam recites silently)

What do I have to do then??

We have a fatwa available for this question Alhamdulillah.

The person who is praying behind the imaam should do rukoo’ as soon as the imaam does rukoo’, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The imaam is appointed only to be followed, so when he prays standing, pray standing; when he bows (does rukoo’), bow; when he stands up again, stand up again; when he says ‘Sami’ Allaahu liman hamidah (Allaah hears the one who praises Him),’ say, ‘Rabbanaa wa laka’l-hamd (Our Lord, to You be praise).’ If he prays standing, then pray standing, and if he prays sitting, then pray sitting, all of you.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh, 648). The person who is praying behind an imaam is excused for not completing al-Faatihah in this case, because he is following the imaam. And Allaah knows best.

Link : http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/2833/

 

[Vedo]

:salam2:

What if the Imam is faster in reading the Fatiha than I am?
Sometimes the Imam bows to Ruku and I'm still busy reciting Al-Fatiha so I cant recite it until end.
(Mostly happens when the Imam recites silently)

What do I have to do then??

It is opinnion of 3 mazhabs (Hanafi, Maliki, Hanbeli) to NOT recite fatiha after imam say ameen.

Shafi and Imam Bukhari considered that is must to say fatiha in every rakat.

Opinnion of Sheihk Albani r.a. is also to not recite fatiha.

Here you have explanation:

http://www.abdurrahman.org/salah/prophetsPrayerAlbaani/index.htm

The Abrogation of Recitation behind the Imaam in the Loud Prayers

He had given permission for those being led by the Imaam to recite Soorah al-Faatihah in the loud prayers, when once:

"he was praying Fajr and the recitation became difficult for him. When he finished, he said: Perhaps you recite behind your imaam. We said: "Yes, quickly139, O Messenger of Allaah." He said: Do not do so, except for [each of you reciting] the opening chapter of the Book, for the prayer is not valid of the one who does not recite it.140

Later, he forbade them from reciting in the loud prayers at all, when:

"He finished a prayer in which he was reciting loudly (in one narration: it was the dawn prayer) and said: Were any of you reciting with me just now?! A man said: "Yes, I was, O Messenger of Allaah". He said: I say, why am I contended with? [Abu Hurairah said:] So the people stopped reciting with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) when he was reciting loudly after hearing that from him [but they recited to themselves quietly when the imaam was not reciting loudly]."141

He also made silence during the imaam's recitation part of the completeness of following the imaam, saying: The imaam is there to be followed, so when he says takbeer, say takbeer, and when he recites, be silent142, just as he made listening to the imaam's recitation enough to not have to recite behind him, saying: He who has an imaam, then the recitation of the imaam is recitation for him143 - this applying in the loud prayers.


Can someone paste evidence about reciting fatiha in all rakats?

 

[BrotherInIslam7]

:salam2:

As far as I know, reciting Surah fatihah after the imam in a congregation is the *stronger view*.

IslamQA says that it is an issue on which the scholars remain divided. We should be tolerant to both views.

Praise be to Allaah.

Reciting al-Faatihah is one of the essential parts of the prayer, and is to be recited in each rak’ah both by the imaam and by those who are being led by him, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book [i.e., al-Faatihah].” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 714). With regard to one who is following an imaam reciting al-Faatihah behind the imaam in a prayer where Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, there are two scholarly opinions.

The first opinion is that it is obligatory, the evidence for that being the general meaning of the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book [i.e., al-Faatihah].” And because when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught the one who had not prayed properly, he told him to recite al-Faatihah.

It was narrated in a saheeh report that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to recite it in every rak’ah. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Baari: “It was proven that permission was given to the one who is praying behind an imaam to recite al-Faatihah in prayers in which Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, without any exceptions. That is what was narrated by al-Bukhaari in Juz’ al-Qiraa’ah, and by al-Tirmidhi, Ibn Hibbaan and others, from Makhool from Mahmood ibn al-Rabee’ from ‘Ubaadah, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) stumbled in his recitation in Fajr, and when he finished he said, “Perhaps you recite behind your imaam?” They said, “Yes,” He said, “Do not do that, except for the Opening of the Book (al-Faaithah), for there is no prayer for the one who does not recite it.”

The second opinion is that the recitation of the imaam is also the recitation of the one who is praying behind him. The evidence for that is the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“So, when the Qur’aan is recited, listen to it, and be silent that you may receive mercy” [al-A’raaf 7:204]

Ibn Hajar said: “Those who say that (the one who is praying behind an imaam) does not have to recite it in prayers where Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, such as the Maalikis, quote as evidence the hadeeth, ‘When he recites then listen attentively.’ This is a saheeh hadeeth which was narrated by Muslim from Abu Moosa al-‘Ash’ari.”

Those who say that it is obligatory say that it should be recited after the imaam has finished reciting al-Faatihah and before he starts to recite another soorah, or that it should be recited when the imam pauses. Ibn Hajar said: “He should listen when the imam is reciting, and recite it when he is silent.”

Shaykh Ibn Baaz said, “What is meant by when the imam pauses is when he pauses during al-Faatihah or after reciting it, or in the soorah that he recites after it. If the imam does not pause, then the one who is praying behind him has to recite al-Faatihah even if the imam is reciting, according to the more correct of the two scholarly opinions.” (See Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, vol. 11, p. 221)

The Standing Committee was asked a similar question and replied as follows:

The correct scholarly opinion is that it is obligatory to recite al-Faatihah when praying alone and it is obligatory upon the imam and those whom he is leading both in prayers where Qur’aan is to be recited out loud and when it is to be recited silently, because of the soundness and specific nature of the texts which indicate that. The aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“So, when the Qur’aan is recited, listen to it, and be silent that you may receive mercy”

[al-A’raaf 7:204] is general in meaning. The hadeeth, “When the Qur’aan is recited then listen attentively” is general and applies both to al-Faatihah and other soorahs. These two texts are general in meaning, and the following hadeeth refer to an exception to that rule:

“There is no prayer for the one who does not recite the Opening of the Book.” Thus we may reconcile all the proven evidence. The hadeeth “The recitation of the imaam is the recitation of the one who is praying behind him” is da’eef (weak). It is not correct to say that the Ameen of the congregation to the imaam’s recitation of al-Faatihah takes the place of their own recitation. The differences of opinion among the scholars concerning this matter should not be taken as a means to hate one another, and to divide and turn our backs on one another. Rather you have to study the matter in more detail and find out more. If one of you is following a scholar who says that the one who is praying behind an imam has to recite al-Faatihah during prayers in which Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, and others are following a scholar who says that they must be silent and listen to the imam in prayers where Qur’aan is to be recited out loud, and that the imam’s recitation of al-Faatihah is sufficient, there is nothing wrong with that. There is no need for one group to denounce the other, or to hate one another because of that.

They have to be open-minded about differences of opinion among the scholars, and about the reasons for that, and ask Allaah to guide them in matters concerning which there are differences of opinion as to what is correct, for He is the All-Hearing, Ever-Responsive. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

 

[thariq2005]

Assalaamu `alaykkum

To brother Vedo, this is a matter of difference of opinion and the scholars have differed, especially about reciting behind the imaam in the Loud prayers. I am aware that Shaykh Al Albaanee rahimahullaah said that reciting behind the imaam is abrogated, but with all due respect to the shaykh rahimahullaahu ta`aalaa, could you please show the statement of some of the classical scholars (well grounded in Fiqh), who said that the recitation is abrogated??? I want to know out of curiousity...

 

[Vedo]

Assalaamu `alaykkum

To brother Vedo, this is a matter of difference of opinion and the scholars have differed, especially about reciting behind the imaam in the Loud prayers. I am aware that Shaykh Al Albaanee rahimahullaah said that reciting behind the imaam is abrogated, but with all due respect to the shaykh rahimahullaahu ta`aalaa, could you please show the statement of some of the classical scholars (well grounded in Fiqh), who said that the recitation is abrogated??? I want to know out of curiousity...

You have on one side 3 madhab, and big scholars like Sheikh Albani r.a. and Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah ( I think he has opinnion that is better to recite fatiha after imam), Zuhry, Ishak...

And I am not real sure whose opinnion is stronger (and who can be), so I will contionue to searching

Can somebody write scholars who says that is obligatorty, and who says that is prohibited

I found some interesting text about this:

Early in my days as a new Muslim, it had been impressed upon me that during those prayers that are recited aloud, that the one being led in the salat should remain silent and simply listen. I did just that until I began studying the fiqh of Imam ash-Shaafi'i(RA). Now, although I recognize not reciting behind the imam is a valid opinion, I assert that it is not the only opinion.

Not long ago, while discussing the general topic of following/not following a madhhab with a friend of mine - this issue of reciting/not reciting behind the imam came to surface. He mentioned a particular hadith that suggests that one should not recite behind the imam. This hadith, which has various transmissions, will be addressed later - for first I shall demonstrate why in the Shaafi'i madhhab, it is preferred that the one being led in salat should also recite the surah al-Faatihah.

My references are the books Saheeh Sifat is-Salat in-Nabee(SAWS) (Authentic Traits of the Prayer of the Prophet (SAWS)) by Shaykh Hasan as-Saqaaf who was the Shaafi'i mufti of Makkah until return to Allah(TA) in 1335H, and also the al-Majmu'a of Imam an-Nawawi whose name is no doubt known to all students of knowledge.

Verily, Allah(TA) has said what means, "And We have given you seven oft-repeated [saabi ul-mathaani] verses and a Supreme Qur'an." (Surah al-Hijr,87)

Imam al-Bukhari(RA) related a hadith on the authority of Abu Sa'id bin Mu'alla(RA) in which the Prophet(SAWS) said, "al-hamdu liLLahi Rabbi l-aa'lameen [al-Fatihah], it is the seven oft-repeated [saabi ul-mathaani] and the Supreme Qur'an"

From this hadith we see that Surah al-Fatihah is the seven oft-repeated verses about which our Lord(AWJ) has informed us in Surah al-Hijr.

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah(RA), Imam al-Bukhari relates a hadith in which the Prophet(SAWS) said, "The Mother of the Book (Umm ul-Kitaab), it is the seven oft-repeated [saabi ul-mathaani] and the Supreme Qur'an"

Now, here we have two hadith - one referring to al-Fatiha as the seven oft-repeated verses, and the other referring to Umm ul-Kitaab as the seven oft-repeated verses. Ibn Hajr al-'Asqalani in Fath ul-Bari (his classic commentary on the Sahih al-Bukhari) says that at-Tabarani related by two good chains on the authority of 'Umar ibn al-Khattab and 'Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allah be pleased with them both) a hadith in which the Prophet(SAWS) said, "The seven oft-repeated verses is the Fatihah."

Thus, Imam ash-Shaafi'i concluded that the Mother of the Book must in fact be a synonym for Surah al-Fatihah.

Although these hadith seem at the moment, unrelated to the issue at hand, they provide the foundation for the upcoming conclusions.

The evidence for the permissibility of reciting al-Fatihah behind the imam in salats that are silent AND aloud comes from the mutawatir hadith related by Imam al-Bukhari in which the Prophet(SAWS) said, "There is no salat for the one who does not recite the Fatihah." Even more relevant is the hadith on the authority of 'Ibaadah ibn as-Saamit(RA) in which he said that the Prophet(SAWS) prayed Salat al-FAJR (aloud salat) with him and some others.
After the prayer, the Prophet(SAWS) asked, "Did I see you reciting behind the imam?" They replied, "Yes." The Prophet(SAWS) responded, "Do not recite anything except for the Mother of the Book, for there is no salat for the one who does not recite it." This hadith has been narrarated by Bukhari, Ahmad, at-Tahaawi, Abu Dawud, at-Tirmidhi, al-Bayhaqi and others.

Here we have a hadith about the morning prayer, in which the recitation is aloud, and the Prophet(SAWS) telling the people behind the imam to ONLY recite the Mother of the Book, which is Surah al-Fatihah!

at-Tirmidhi said, "Acting upon this hadith concerning the recitation behind the imam is the position of most of the people of knowledge from among the companions(RA) and the taabi'een(RA)."

This is why the people who follow the conclusions of Imam ash-Shaafi'i(RA) recite the al-Fatihah behind the imam, even during the aloud prayers. The recitation of the follower, however, should be inaudible to those surrounding him. [at the most, the sound of the movement of lips]

As for the hadith, "the one who has an imam, then the recitation of the imam is counts as his own recitation" - some of the 'ulama(scholars) have said this hadith, although it is related in the Sahih of Imam Muslim(RA), is weak and not well authenticated. Ibn Hajr al-'Asqalani in Fath al-Bari said, "this hadith is considered weak among the memorizers(hufaz) of hadith."

Shaykh Hasan as-Saqaaf said, "and among those who declared it weak and rejected it was Imam al-Bukhari who said, 'this hadith is not well authenticated among the people of knowledge from the Hijaaz or Iraq."

Imam an-Nawawi wrote, "and one who claimed that this hadith is not directly traceable back to the Prophet(SAWS) was al-Bayhaqi. And Abu Dawud said in his Sunan, 'this wording (of the hadith) is not well-kept and preserved.'"

wAllahu A'lam if the hadith is weak or not, for I am sure that there are other scholars who have authenticated this hadith.

Point being is that both opinions have their sources. Even if we concede that the hadith "the one who has an imam, then the recitation of the imam is for him, the recitation" is authentic - does it negate the hadith "there is no salat for the one who does not recite Surah al-Fatihah"? Is this a case of naasikh and mansukh hadith (abrogating/abrogated)?

wAllahu A'lam. Let us non-scholars continue practicing our deen knowing that each of us have a valid opinion on this issue whether we recite quietly behind the imam or remain silent. Insha'Allah(TA), the next time we hear someone's lips moving during the recitation of al-Fatihah in Fajr, Maghrib, or 'Isha - we won't be so quick to become upset and our minds diverted from the rememberance of Allah(TA).