When a muslim commits zina- Evidence

[Aroosak]

:salam2:
I pray you are all well
I wanted to know if someone here can help me clarify something....
Some time ago I was at a lecture and the Sheikh mentioned how
when a muslim is commiting zina he or she is not a muslim and if he or she
dies he or she would die as a non-believer. He gave the example of a person who is not praying by pure neglect or the person who is drinking alcohol. He said this person is in state of zina and if death comes to this person at this
time it will be as if this person died as a non-believer. He emphasized how we should always try to be in the state of muslims cause death could arrive at any time.

Could someone give me a daleel for this?
JazakhAllah kheir

 

[alf2]

So because the Muslim sins, that makes him a non-Muslim?
That makes little sense.

 

[Aroosak]

yeah that threw me off a bit as well...
I think what he meant is until he or she repents to Allah t'ala
but I wanted to know if someone has heard of this before and
has any evidence....

 

[kashif_nazeer]

Actually there is a hadith whose mahfoom is that when a muslim is drinking he is not a muslim at that moment and when a muslim commits thef he is not a muslim at that moment and when a muslim commits zina he is not a muslim at that moment.

800e Narrated 'Ikrima from Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostles said, "When a slave (of Allah) commits illegal sexual intercourse, he is not a believer at the time of committing it; and if he steals, he is not a believer at the time of stealing; and if he drinks an alcoholic drink, when he is not a believer at the time of drinking it; and he is not a believer when he commits a murder," 'Ikrima said: I asked Ibn Abbas, "How is faith taken away from him?" He said, Like this," by clasping his hands and then separating them, and added, "But if he repents, faith returns to him like this, by clasping his hands again.

801 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The one who commits an illegal sexual intercourse is not a believer at the time of committing illegal sexual intercourse and a thief is not a believer at the time of committing theft and a drinker of alcoholic drink is not a believer at the time of drinking. Yet, (the gate of) repentance is open thereafter." Sahih Bukhari 82

The prospect of dying as a disbeliever is pretty scary,We never know when death will come,so I think that was a really thought provoking thing the sheikh said.

 

[ShahnazZ]

I've also heard that before from a reputable Sheikh and I actually think it makes alot of sense.

It isn't that committing those sins causes the Muslim to become a non-Muslin. It means that committing those sins cause Muslims to become non-Muslims in THOSE SECONDS in which that sin is being committed and since we don't know when our souls will be taken from us, wouldn't it be horrible if we died during those moments of kufr?

I think it also sheds light on how many Muslims think that repentance is a given. How some think they can just purposely commit a sin that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala abhors and then ask Him for forgiveness later. People forget the fact that death comes on swift wings and that repentence may not be a given, and sometimes may never even happen as a result. A.K.A Try not to commit the sin at all.

Anyways, I don't think anything else could make more sense and I've tried imparting this bit of knowledge to anyone and everyone the second I heard it.

 

[gaza.islam]

:salam2:
I pray you are all well
I wanted to know if someone here can help me clarify something....
Some time ago I was at a lecture and the Sheikh mentioned how
when a muslim is commiting zina he or she is not a muslim and if he or she
dies he or she would die as a non-believer. He gave the example of a person who is not praying by pure neglect or the person who is drinking alcohol. He said this person is in state of zina and if death comes to this person at this
time it will be as if this person died as a non-believer. He emphasized how we should always try to be in the state of muslims cause death could arrive at any time.

Could someone give me a daleel for this?
JazakhAllah kheir

our prophet muhammed peace and prayers be upon him tells that if the muslim commit adultry " zina" , he has to be punished and he must ask forgivness from Allah. if he or she is not married , he or she will be punished with 100 lashes . if he or she is married , death is the punishment and this be by throwing the head of he or she by big rocks till death. but still the door of forgivness is opened. if the beilever commit zina , he , in hurry , has to ask forgivness from Allah and cry alot and regret saying i will never do this again. regret and regret with forgivness. Allah will forgive , inshaa Allah.

 

[ditta]

Wa-alaykum-us-Salaam wa'Rahmatullaah,

I have taken the portions below from the thread 'Belief in Allah (Subhaanahu wa ta'aala)'. Insha'Allaah I think it answers your question. (Please don't take it the wrong the way because the information was simply presented in this way. What I mean is I am not saying you are such and such a person... does that make sense? I hope so, Insha'Allaah.

(I have pasted the portions below that I felt applied. You can refer to start of the post below by clicking on the link reading the posts before or after if you like).

http://www.turntoislam.com/forum/showthread.php?p=361787#post361787

5) Neglecting Obligatory Duties and Committing Prohibited Actions

i) The attitude of the salaf towards those who commit major sins
​

Undoubtedly, if a person neglects the duties that Allah has enjoined upon him, such as paying zakah, fasting, performing Hajj and honouring one’s parents, or does haraam (forbidden) things such as committing adultery (zina), engaging in usury or interest (riba) or consuming orphans’ property, his faith is distorted and is lacking in proportion to the duties neglected or sins committed. But is he to be regarded as a kaafir – disbeliever – simply because he has neglected those duties or committed those haraam actions, so long as he does not deny the former or claim that the latter is halaal (legal)?

The texts that we have before us teach us that the Muslim does not become a kaafir by committing sins or by neglecting obligatory duties, but this does detract from his faith and his case rests with Allah – if He wills, He will forgive him, and if He wills, He will punish him. Among the texts which state that clearly is the aayah (verse):

Verily, Allah forgives not that partners should be set up with Him [in worship], but He forgives except that [anything else] to whom He wills;...

(Qur'aan 4: 48)

The only sin that He will not forgive is shirk. In the case of every lesser sin, it is up to Allah: if He wills, He will forgive, and if He wills, He will punish.

There are also ahaadeeth which clearly state the same thing that is indicated in this aayah. According to a hadith qudsi:

“O son of Adam, if you were to come to me with an earthful of sin, then you were to meet Me not associating anything in worship with Me, I would come to you with an earth-full of forgiveness.”

[Hadith qudsi – the inspired words of Allah conveyed by the Prophet in his words]

[Tirmidhi in his Sunan 4/49, hadith no. 3540. He said: this is a ghareeb hadith which we know only with this isnad. See Saheeh Sunan at-Tirmidhi by al-Albaani, 3/175, hadith no. 2805]

According to another hadith qudsi:

“Whoever meets Me with an earth-full of sin, but does not associate anyone in worship with Me, I will meet him with forgiveness equal to it.”

[Muslim, 4/2068, hadith no. 2687]

It is reported that Utbaan ibn Maalik stated: “The Messenger of Allah said:

‘Allah has forbidden for the Fire all those who say Laa ilaaha illa-Allah seeking thereby the Face of Allah.’

[Bukhari, 1/519, hadith no. 425]

It is reported from Jaabir that the Messenger of Allah said:

“Whoever dies not associating anything with Allah will enter Paradise.”

[Muslim, 1/94, hadith no. 94]

In the hadith about intercession, it is reported that Allah said:

“By My Glory, My Majesty, My Pride and My Might, I will bring forth from it (Hell) those who say Laa Ilaaha illa-Allah”

[Bukhari, 13/474]

It is reported from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allah said:

“The people of Paradise will enter Paradise, and the People of Hell will enter Hell, then Allah, will say: ‘Bring forth everyone in whose heart was faith the weight of a grain of mustard seed.”

[Bukhari, 1/72, hadith no. 22]

Abu Sufyaan said: “I lived near Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah in Makkah for six months. A man asked him, ‘Do you call any of the people of Qiblah (i.e. Muslims) a kaafir?’ He said, ‘Allah forbid!’ He asked, ‘Do you call anybody a mushrik?’ He said, ‘No.’

[Abu Ubayd al-Qaasim ibn Salaam in his book Al-Eemaan, edited by Shaykh Naasiruddin al-Albaani, Pp. 98. The editor said, its isnad is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim. Abu Sufyaan, the narrator of the hadith was a Taabi’ee]

These texts lead prominent scholars among the salaf of this ummah to say of the one who commits sins and neglects obligatory duties: “He is a believer because of his faith but a faasiq (sinner) because of his sin.” They attributed faith to him, but it was not the perfect faith that is the rightful attribute of those who do acts of obedience and refrain from committing sin. His faith is impaired because of his wrongs (fisq) and because of the sin that he has committed.

ii) The khawaarij who denounced people as kaafir because of their sins

In contrast to these (the salaf), there was another group who accused people of kufr if they feel short in any obligatory duty, or if they committed any haraam actions. We still see many people hastening to condemn people as kaafir in a similar manner. The first group to adopt this approach was the Khawaarij, a group who emerged (kharaja) from the army of ‘Ali bin Abi Taalib (radhiyAllaahu anh) after the appointed arbitrators, Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari and ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, had failed to end the dispute that was raging among the Muslims under the leadership of ‘Ali and Mu’aawiyah.

The Khawaarij claimed that appointing men as arbitrators was a mistake according to shari’ah, and they regarded it as kufr. They viewed as kuffaar all the Muslims who had agreed to that, and testified that they themselves turned to be disbelievers. (Because they had initially agreed to the arbitration – Translator). They then entered the pale of Islam afresh. They demanded that ‘Ali should also accept that he committed kufr by agreeing to the arbitration (and pronounce shahadah afresh) as a precondition for their returning to the ranks of his army. ‘Ali (radhiyAllaahu anh) disputed with them, and sent to them the great scholar of this ummah, Ibn ‘Abbaas, who established proof against them and refuted their point of view. A few thousand of them came back (to the army and to Islam), but two thousand persisted in following their opinion and fought ‘Ali, who defeated them and finished them off. But their thinking spread, and was adopted by many people after them. This idea of denouncing others as kaafir still emerges from time to time, and it has resurfaced in our own times.

The evidence quoted by the khawaarij for denouncing as kaafir those who commit major sins

The Khawaarij –

(There is another group, the Mu’tazilah, who are the followers of Waasil ibn ‘Ataa’, who said that one who commits major sin is neither a believer nor a kaafir, but is in a position between kufr and eemaan, but in the Hereafter he will be doomed to eternity in Hell.)

- claim that one who commits a major sin is a kaafir and is no longer Muslim, and his blood and wealth are halaal (lawful (i.e. he may be killed and his wealth seized by the Muslims)). They say that he will abide in Hell forever. They quote in support of their view; evidence, which they thought, proved their case, such as the following:

a) They said, “You agree with us that deeds are part of faith, because eemaan is composed of belief, words and deeds. If one part of faith, such as actions, is missing, then the whole of eemaan is absent.”

b) They quoted as evidence the fact that Allah describes some sins as fisq, as in the aayah:

...If a Faasiq (liar – evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it...

(Qur’aan 49: 6)

The word faasiq here is applied to a liar, which quite obvious to anyone who looks at the context of the aayah.

The Prophet said:

“For a believer to trade insults with another is fusooq (evil).”

(Muslim, 1/80, hadeeth no. 64)

And they said that Allah called some sins, such as consuming orphans’
wealth, zulm:

Verily, those who unjustly (zulman) eat up their property of orphans, they eat up only fire into their bellies,...

(Qur’aan 4: 10)

And He (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), calls the one who evicts a widow from her marital home during the time of her ‘idda, a zaalim, because he transgresses the limits set by Allaah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala):

...And fear Allaah your Lord (O’ Muslims). And turn them not out of their (husband’s) homes nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open illegal sexual intercourse. And those are the set limits of Allah. And whosoever transgresses the set limits of Allah, then indeed he has wronged himself...

(Qur’aan 65: 1)

They said, these sins are fisq and zulm, and the faasiqoon and zaalimoon are kaafir as the Qur’aan says:

...And it is the disbelievers who are the Zaalimoon (wrongdoers).

(Qur’aan 2: 254)

...But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the Faasiqoon (rebellious,
disobedient to Allah).

(Qur’aan 24: 55)

And they said: the texts indicate that those who commit sins are not believers, for example, the report narrated by Muslim which says that the Prophet said:

“The one commits zina is not a believer at the time when he is committing zina, and the one who steals is not believer at the time when he is stealing, and the one who drinks wine is not a believer at the time when he is drinking.”

(Muslim, 1/76, hadeeth no. 57)

And he said:

“No one who believes in Allah and His Messenger can hate the Ansaar.”

(Ibid, 1/86)

And:

“By the One in Whose hand is my soul, you will not enter Paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another.”

(Ibid, 1/74, hadeeth no. 54)

c) They said: the Messenger disowned those who committed certain sins, such as when he said:

“Whoever bears arms against us is not one of us, and whoever deceives us is not one of us.”

(Muslim, 1/99, hadeeth no. 101)

And, according to another hadeeth:

“Whoever cheats is not one of us.”

(Ibid, 1/101, hadeeth no. 102)

According to a hadeeth narrated by Bukhari and Muslim from Abu Hurayrah (radhiyAllaahu anh), the Messenger of Allah said:

“By Allah, he does not believe; by Allah, he does not believe; by Allah, he does not believe.

They said,

“Who, O’ Messenger of Allah?”

He said,

“The one from whose annoyance his neighbour is not safe.”

(Mishkaat al-Masabeeh, 2/607, hadeeth no. 4962)

d) They said: some sins were described as kufr, as when Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala) said:

...And Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah) to the House (Ka’bah) is a duty that mankind owes to Allah, those who can afford the expenses (for one’s conveyance, provision and residence); and whoever disbelieves (i.e. denies Hajj (pilgrimage to Makkah), then he is a disbeliever of Allah), then Allah stands not in need of any of the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exist).

(Qur’aan 3: 97)

And the Messenger said:

“Do not go back to kufr after I am gone by killing one another.”

(Muslim, 1/82, hadeeth no. 65)

And:

“If a man denounces his brother as a kaafir, it will be the case that one of them is a kaafir.”

(Ibid, 1/79, hadeeth no. 79)

Refutation of the evidences quoted by the khawaarij

These are the evidences which they referred to, for their labelling as kaafir those who commit sins. We will strive to point out where they went wrong in using these texts as evidences:

a - With regard to their point that deeds are included in the components of eemaan, we do not deny this. But where they went wrong is when they counted deeds as a condition of faith. The correct view is that this is not so. If deeds are lacking, this impairs the required perfection of faith, i.e., if deeds are lacking then faith is also lacking in part, and it remains imperfect. This is like a man whose hand or foot has been cut off, or whose eye has been taken out, or his ear has been cut off. He is still a human being and is still alive. But if he is cut in two or his head is cut off, or his heart is torn out, then he is like a person whose faith is removed. If the hand, foot or eye is removed, this is like a person who neglects some obligatory duties or does some haraam (forbidden) actions. When the head or heart is removed, is like the ‘aqeedah is taken away.

b - Their explanation of fisq and zulm being kufr is a misunderstanding. The meaning of fisq is to disobey Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala), and all acts of disobedience towards Allah are not on the same level. They may entail kufr, or they may not. A person who denies the angels disobeys Allah in a manner that constitutes kufr, whilst a person who drinks wine disobeys Allah in a manner that is sinful, but does not constitute kufr.

Zulm also varies in a degree: it may taken a extreme form that reaches the level of kufr, or it may be of a lesser degree than that.

We may picture this if we draw a large circle in the middle of which is a smaller circle. The large circle represents zulm and fisq, and the smaller circle represents kufr, so kufr is included in zulm and fisq, because they are broader in meaning than kufr, but some kinds of zulm and fisq are not kufr.

What indicates that fisq may not be kufr is the hadeeth of the Prophet
, in which he said:

“Slandering a Muslim is fusooq, and killing him is kufr.”

(Muslim, 1/80, hadeeth no. 64)

The Messenger distinguished between the two, even though what is meant by kufr in this hadeeth is not the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam.

The texts which they quote to support their view that faith is cancelled out by sins, or that the Messenger disowned people who committed sins, or that the person who commits a certain is a kaafir, do not mean that faith is taken away by sins or that sin implies that a person if a kaafir. But sins do detract from the perfection and sincerity of a person’s faith, which Allah described and stated was a precondition in several places in His Book.

Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala) says:

Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties for (the price) that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah’s Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is binding on Him in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and the Qur’aan. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success.

(The believers whose lives Allah has purchased are) those who turn to Allah in repentance (from polytheism and hypocrisy), who worship (Him), who praise (Him), who fast (or go out in Allah’s Cause), who bow down (in prayer), who prostrate themselves (in prayer), who enjoin (on people) Al-Ma’roof and forbid (people) from Al-Munkar, and who observe the limits set by Allah. And give glad tidings to the believers.”

(Qur’aan 9: 111-112)

Successful indeed are the believers.

Those who offer their salaah (prayers) with all solemnity and full
submissiveness.

And those who turn away from Al-Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk, falsehood, and all that Allah has forbidden).

And those who pay the Zakaah.

And who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts).

(Qur’aan 23: 1-5)

The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a fear in
their hearts and when His aayaat (verses) (this Qur’aan) are recited unto them, they trust in their Lord (Alone);

Who perform As-Salaah (Iqaamat-as-Salaah) and spend out of that We
have provided them.

(Qur’aan 8: 2-3)

After quoting these aayaat, Abu ‘Ubayd al-Qaasim ibn Sallaam –

(These quotations are taken from the book Al-Eemaan by Abu ‘Ubayd, a collection of his four treatises edited by Shaykh Naasir-ud-deen Al-Albaanee, Pp. 90-96)

- said:

“These aayaat explain the obligations that Islam has enjoined upon its followers, and prohibited all kinds of sin.”

The ahaadeeth of the Sunnah describe the features of eemaan. When sins are mixed with faith, it may be said that this is not what Allah has enjoined upon the believers, and these are not the signs by which faith is known, i.e., this is not the reality of faith. But this does not mean that ther is no faith at all.”

He then examines the specious arguments of those who say, how can it be said that he is not a believer but that the title of faith is not taken away from him? He explains this by pointing out that this is the way the Arabs speak: they deny that a deed has been done if it had not been done properly. The Qur’aan was revealed in the language of the Arabs using the stylistic devices of their language. “In the language of the Arabs, about which we know a great deal, it is not uncommon to deny a deed if the person who did it failed to do it properly. Do you not see that if a worker does not do his job properly, they will say to him, ‘You haven’t done anything’? The intention here is to deny the quality, not to deny the work itself. In their view, the job is done nominally but not properly.”

He explained that the Arabs may speak in an even harsher tone, such as when a son disobeys his father and annoys him to the extent that the father may say, ‘He is not a son’ – although they know that he is his son, born from his loins. A similar thing may be said concerning a brother, wife or slave.

Then he explained that these texts which deny faith were narrated in a similar fashion. He said: “The same applies to these sins for which faith is denied, because what cancelled out the reality of faith is not complying with the rulings which are attributes of eemaan. But a person’s
classification remains as it was, and he is not described as being anything other than a believer, and the rulings which apply to believers remain intact in his case.”

He quoted the aayah from Soorah Aal ‘Imraan (the third chapter of the Qur’aan) which states that Allah took a covenant from those who had been given the Scripture, that they would make it (the news of the coming of Prophet Muhammad ) known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it, but they threw it away behind their backs, yet despite that they are still described as People of the Book in other aayaat, and it is permissible for us to eat their meat and marry their women. Then he said: “In the rulings and in name they are still described as People of the Book, although in reality they have departed from it.”

And he narrated the hadeeth of the man who prayed badly, which was narrated by the two Shaykhs (Bukhari and Muslim), in which the Messenger said:

“Go back and pray, for you have not prayed.”

(Bukhari, 2/277, hadeeth no. 793; Muslim, 1/298, hadeeth no. 397)

- more than once. Although the man had prayed each time, it was a nominal prayer only, and was a not a prayer as it should be.

What is meant by the texts in which the Messenger of Allah disowned those who commit

Abu ‘Ubayd stated:

“This disowning does not mean that they no longer have anything to do with the Messenger of Allah and his religion. But in our opinion he is not one of those who obey the Messenger or follow his example or adhere to his laws (as required).”

What is meant by the texts which state that some sins imply kufr and shirk

“With regard to the texts which state that some sins imply kufr and shirk, the way we understand them is not that those people become kaafir (disbelievers) and mushrikeen (polytheists) in such a way that they no longer have any eemaan at all. Rather, the way in which they are to be interpreted is that these sins are akin to the characteristics and ways of the kuffaar and mushrikeen. We find a similar amount of reports of these two types as we do of reports of the first two types.”

He explains that what is meant by the sins which are called kufr and shirk is “the characteristics of the mushrikeen and their names, ways, words and rulings, etc.”

In support of this view, he quoted the comment of Ibn ‘Abbaas (radhiyAllaahu anh) in his tafseer of the aayah,

...And whosoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed, such are the kaafiroon (i.e. disbelievers – of a lesser degree as they do not act on Allah’s Laws).

(Qur’aan 5: 44)

Ibn ‘Abbaas (radhiyAllaahu anh) said:

“This is not (the kind of) kufr that puts a person beyond the pale of Islam.”

Ataa’ said:

“It is a lesser form of kufr.”

Concerning the report narrated from Ibn ‘Abbaas, the editor of the book said:

“This is narrated by Al-Haakim in Al-Mustadrak via Taawoos, and he and Adh-Dhahabi classed it as saheeh.”

(Kitaab al-Eemaan by Abu ‘Ubayd al-Qaasim ibn Sallaam, Pp. 94. Published in the anthology of Four Desertations – Arba’ Rasaa’il.)

Although judging by other than that which Allah has revealed is called kufr, it does not put a person beyond the pale of Islam. Eemaan is still present in this case, even though it is mixed with this sin. What is meant is the judging by other than that which Allah has revealed is the way of the kuffaar (disbelievers). Have you not heard the words of Allah (subhaanahu wa ta’aala):

Do they then seek the judgement of (the days of) Ignorance?...

(Qur’aan 5: 50)

Then he says: the way in which this was interpreted by the scholars of Tafseer is that whoever judges by other than that which Allah has revealed – and he is a Muslim – becomes thereby like the people of the Jaahiliyah, for it is to be understood that this is how the people of Jaahiliyah used to judge. This is like the hadeeth:

“Three things belong to the Jaahiliyah: slandering people’s lineage, wailing over the dead, and astrology.”

(This is a saheeh (authentic) hadeeth)

(Saheeh al-Jaami’ as-Sagheer, 1/583, hadeeth no. 3039, where the wording is: “Three actions of the people of the Jaahiliyah which the people of Islam will not mange to avoid: seeking rain through the stars (astrology), slandering people’s lineage, and wailing over the dead.” He attributed it to Bukhari in At-Taareekh, and to At-Tabaraani in Al-Kabeer, and Ahmad in Al-Musnad, and Ibn Hibbaan in his saheeh.)

Similarly there is a hadeeth that reads:

“The signs of the hypocrites are three: when he speaks, he lies; when he makes a promise, he breaks it; when he is entrusted with something, he betrays that trust.”

(Bukhari, 1/89, hadeeth no. 33; Muslim, 1/78, hadeeth no. 59.)

Abu ‘Ubayd said:

“These reports are not to be interpreted as meaning that the one who commits sin is to be labelled as belonging to the people of Jaahiliyah, a kaafir (disbeliever) or a hypocrite, when he believes in Allah and the Message sent by Him, and he fulfils the obligatory duties. What these reports mean is that these sins are part of the actions of the kuffaar (disbelievers) which are forbidden in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, so that the Muslims can avoid these things and steer clear of them, and not imitate the kuffaar in any of their attitudes or ways.”

He quoted the hadeeth:

“If a women puts on perfume then passes by people who can detect her fragrance, she is a zaaniyah (adulteress)”

(The editor of Kitaab al-Eemaan (p. 96) said: (this is a) saheeh hadeeth, narrated by Ibn Khuzaymah, Ibn Hibbaan and Al-Haakim in their Saheehs, from Abu Moosa al-Ash’ari and attributed to the Prophet , where the wording is, “Any woman who puts on perfume and passes by people so that they can smell its fragrance, is a zaaniyah, and every eye is zaaniyah.” A similar report is narrated by Abu Dawood and Tirmidhi, who it as saheeh.)

Is this the kind of zina which incurs the prescribed punishment (hadd)?

Perhaps what Abu ‘Ubayd al-Qaasim ibn Sallaam meant when he said that “judging by other than that which Allah revealed is not kufr that puts a person beyond the pale of Islaam” and when a qaadi (Muslim judge) judges a particular case according to his own whims and desires, although he usually judges in accordance with the rulings of Allah.

With regard to ruling by the laws of the disbelievers, and applying them by force to the Islamic peoples, and opposing and fighting all those who call for the application of Islam – this nothing to do with Islam.

But no, by you Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make (O’ Muhammad) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.

(Qur’aan 4: 65)

 

[Precious Star]

There are good muslims, there are bad muslims.
All muslims commit sins. Some muslims commit minor sins, some commit major sins. Some do a little combination of both.

But that does not make them "non-muslims". It makes them "bad muslims" who will be asked to account on the day of Judgement.

I don't think it is up to any of us mere mortals to categorize someone as a non muslim because they sin. That is up to Allah SWT on the Day of Judgement.

 

[Aroosak]

JazakhAllah kheir to everyone for their replies

800e Narrated 'Ikrima from Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostles said, "When a slave (of Allah) commits illegal sexual intercourse, he is not a believer at the time of committing it; and if he steals, he is not a believer at the time of stealing; and if he drinks an alcoholic drink, when he is not a believer at the time of drinking it; and he is not a believer when he commits a murder," 'Ikrima said: I asked Ibn Abbas, "How is faith taken away from him?" He said, Like this," by clasping his hands and then separating them, and added, "But if he repents, faith returns to him like this, by clasping his hands again.

801 Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "The one who commits an illegal sexual intercourse is not a believer at the time of committing illegal sexual intercourse and a thief is not a believer at the time of committing theft and a drinker of alcoholic drink is not a believer at the time of drinking. Yet, (the gate of) repentance is open thereafter." Sahih Bukhari 82
The prospect of dying as a disbeliever is pretty scary,We never know when death will come,so I think that was a really thought provoking thing the sheikh said.

This was exactly what I was looking for jazakhAllah kheir. We really should strive every second of our lives to be in the straight path. May Allah keep guiding us.

I also remember the Sheikh talking about the person who consumes alcohol and the exact amount of hours before the alcohol leaves their body. He mentioned how during these hours this person cannot pray and therefore is not able to fulfill the duties to Allah (swt). Also are these sins mentioned in the above hadith the ones that make a believer a disbeliever for the time that they are committing them? or is it ANY sin?

 

[kashif_nazeer]

JazakhAllah kheir to everyone for their replies



This was exactly what I was looking for jazakhAllah kheir. We really should strive every second of our lives to be in the straight path. May Allah keep guiding us.

I also remember the Sheikh talking about the person who consumes alcohol and the exact amount of hours before the alcohol leaves their body. He mentioned how during these hours this person cannot pray and therefore is not able to fulfill the duties to Allah (swt). Also are these sins mentioned in the above hadith the ones that make a believer a disbeliever for the time that they are committing them? or is it ANY sin?

Wa iyyaki,
Sister,I am no scholar,but since this hadith speaks of the above mentioned 3 sins,at least these 3 sins must be avoided at all cost.I am not sure if it's same about other sins,a scholarly opinion is required.Wallahu 'alam.

 

[thariq2005]

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

The belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l Jamaa`ah is that these narrations refer to that Kufr which is known as Kufr al-Asghar (i.e Minor Kufr) and it is not a Kufr that puts a person out of the fold of Islaam. What it exactly means is that the person committing these major sins are lacking in Eemaan al-Kaamil (i.e complete Eemaan)- because Eemaan consists of the following:

Belief in the heart, Statements and Actions [Actions of the limbs and the heart (i.e love for the sake of Allaah etc)]

So, if the actions are lacking then the Eemaan is lacking but it doesn't mean that Eemaan is completely not there. The khawaarij (a deviant sect) misunderstand these narrations and label the major sinners as Kuffaar.

Ahl al-Sunnah on the other hand have agreed that the person who commits major sin/s is not a Kaafir- because if it was the case that a person was to drink alcohol and he has left the fold of Islaam, then he is to be executed as an Apostate (as that is the punishment for apostatacy by the agreement of scholars). But this is clearly not the case in the Sharee`ah, as the acoholic is to be flogged.

So, the major sinner is obviously eligible to be punished (if there is a punishment prescribed for that sin in the Sharee`ah, like flogging ec).

That is generally the explanations the scholars give, and Allaah knows best.

I hope that made sense.

Wassalaamu `alaykum

 

[Aroosak]

Wa `alaykum salaam wa rahmatullaah

The belief of Ahl al-Sunnah wa'l Jamaa`ah is that these narrations refer to that Kufr which is known as Kufr al-Asghar (i.e Minor Kufr) and it is not a Kufr that puts a person out of the fold of Islaam. What it exactly means is that the person committing these major sins are lacking in Eemaan al-Kaamil (i.e complete Eemaan)- because Eemaan consists of the following:

Belief in the heart, Statements and Actions [Actions of the limbs and the heart (i.e love for the sake of Allaah etc)]

So, if the actions are lacking then the Eemaan is lacking but it doesn't mean that Eemaan is completely not there. The khawaarij (a deviant sect) misunderstand these narrations and label the major sinners as Kuffaar.

Ahl al-Sunnah on the other hand have agreed that the person who commits major sin/s is not a Kaafir- because if it was the case that a person was to drink alcohol and he has left the fold of Islaam, then he is to be executed as an Apostate (as that is the punishment for an apostatacy by the agreement of scholars). But this is clearly not the case in the Sharee`ah, as the acoholic is to be flogged.

So, the major sinner is obviously eligible to be punished (if there is a punishment prescribed for that sin in the Sharee`ah, like flogging ec).

That is generally the explanations the scholars give, and Allaah knows best.

I hope that made sense.

Wassalaamu `alaykum

JazakAllah Kheir this made total sense alhamdulillah
May Allah reward you for taking time to reply in such detail.

 

[Just a Guy]

There are good muslims, there are bad muslims.
All muslims commit sins. Some muslims commit minor sins, some commit major sins. Some do a little combination of both.

But that does not make them "non-muslims". It makes them "bad muslims" who will be asked to account on the day of Judgement.

I don't think it is up to any of us mere mortals to categorize someone as a non muslim because they sin. That is up to Allah SWT on the Day of Judgement.

This.

Come on, we all sin. Nobody is perfect, and the idea that anyone who sins automatically becomes a non-Muslim does not sit well with me, I have to admit. I have my struggles, and sometimes I give into them. Does that make me a bad person? I like to think not. It just means that I make mistakes, the same as everyone else.

Will I have to give account for those sins? Absolutely. But committing those sins doesn't mean that I don't still believe in Allah and worship Allah. I still do, even when I stray from the right path. But I always ask for the forgiveness of Allah, and He is the Most Merciful.

 

[Precious Star]

This.

Come on, we all sin. Nobody is perfect, and the idea that anyone who sins automatically becomes a non-Muslim does not sit well with me, I have to admit. I have my struggles, and sometimes I give into them. Does that make me a bad person? I like to think not. It just means that I make mistakes, the same as everyone else.

Will I have to give account for those sins? Absolutely. But committing those sins doesn't mean that I don't still believe in Allah and worship Allah. I still do, even when I stray from the right path. But I always ask for the forgiveness of Allah, and He is the Most Merciful.

I think you and I are saying the same thing.

 

[Just a Guy]

I think you and I are saying the same thing.

:salam2:

Yes, we are. I was more long-winded though. Sorry.

 

[Aapa]

Assalaam walaikum,

If one sins and the sins are so many that they can be piled up to the sky and we ask for forgiveness what is the answer: He forgives.

Now..lets think for one minute.

As A Muslim we submit to Him. There are times when we make major major screw ups. I know, I am fully human and am very humble. Why do you think the wiser ones told us to be silent, not look, etc. etc.

In the midst of my sin..while I am in the act of sinning..lets say drinking. Play with me for a minute..

I'm on the job. We go out for one. I decide to have a drink that is filled with bits of fruit and the little Chinese umbrella. Alcohol by its nature changes my nature..it is called a spirit. I dance, move my body closer to co-workers, I play with the fruit, arms start rubbing my body....

One tiny little drink and I have allowed my self to change. And I have allowed myself to be subjected to being seductive etc.

As I am drinking I am committing a form of shirk. I am knowingly breaking the rules of my own belief system. I choose to believe. But at this moment I have stepped outside the belief system.

Remember, when we wake up we thank Allah and ask Him to help us be Muslims and when we go to sleep we ask Allah should we die..let us die Muslims.

Belief, is each second turning into each minute, turning into each hour..

How fortunate we are that He is the Most Merciful and Oft-Forgiving.

 

[ShahnazZ]

Aapa beat me to it. Thank you, that was exactly what I was about to say.

It seems like the actual hadith isn't even being read and it makes complete sense. It doesn't say a Muslim becomes a non-Muslim after sinning, just for THOSE SECONDS in which that person sins. I have no idea why that little bit is being overlooked. It's like the key words that are jumping out are:
1. Muslim
2. Becomes
3. Non-Muslim
and that's enough for an uproar without reading the rest of the Hadith. For the love of God people, no one is saying we remain as non-Muslims after sinning. Just that we're not Muslims while sinning.

Plain and simple:

Who are we? We're Believers.
Who do we Believe? Allah
What does it mean to Believe in Allah? To follow His Laws.
What happens when we purposely break those Laws? We choose not to Believe.
Is it possible for us to regret our actions and ask Allah for Forgiveness? Yes
What happens? Allah forgives us.

Fin

 

[Aroosak]

As I am drinking I am committing a form of shirk. I am knowingly breaking the rules of my own belief system. I choose to believe. But at this moment I have stepped outside the belief system.


How fortunate we are that He is the Most Merciful and Oft-Forgiving.

Excellent point Sister Aapa! We often think of shirk as worshipping idols or the trinity but we forget that we can commit shirk by falling into our own desires and putting them first. Arrogance, vanity all those nasty sins they all go back to shirk and affect every choice we make.
We indeed are fortunate for His forgiveness!