Your Wuhdu is no longer counted?

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B-R-R

Purifying my soul!
Salam alaikum wa rahmatullah!

I get like thousands of questions about my deen, don't know where to start.

I heard a statement that our wuhdu is set to zero if we touch the opposite sex. Am I the only one that's highly surprised. So if a girl just touches me on the shoulder, or any other touch, really sets my wuhdu to Zero? I admit I haven't gone over the hand shaking thing yet, and in a few years I'll be a teacher. Inshallah will He make it easier for all of us.

Help me clear this, may Allah (subhana wa ta a'la) bless all brothers and sister. Amin
 

Yusuf1990

al-Inglezi
Wa'alaikum asalaam warahmatullah,

What you have heard is incorrect. Some people try taking the Deen to extremes (in matters of purity and in matters of worship) where as the Deen of al-Islam is so easy, literally. But of course, to touch a member of the opposite sex who is not your wife/husband or mahram such as close family, this is haraam. But still, it does not break your wudu.
May Allah help us and guide us, and may He protect us from the whispers of Shaitaan. Ameen.

"A man can hardly go through his day without giving and taking things from his wife. If he has wudoo’ and touches his wife, does this break his wudoo’?


Praise be to Allaah.

The scholars differ as to whether touching one’s wife directly breaks a man’s wudoo’. The most correct opinion is that it does not break his wudoo’, regardless of whether he touched her with desire or not, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Alaah be upon him) kissed some of his wives and did not do wudoo’ after that, and because it would impose a lot of hardship if wudoo’ was required in this case. If it broke a person’s wudoo’, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) would have said so.

With regard to the words of Allaah in the Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning): “… or you have been in contact with women…” [al-Nisa’ 4:43; al-Maa’idah 5:6], this refers to sexual intercourse according to the sounder scholarly opinion.



Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/266"
 

daywalker

Junior Member
Wa'alaikum asalaam warahmatullah,

What you have heard is incorrect. Some people try taking the Deen to extremes (in matters of purity and in matters of worship) where as the Deen of al-Islam is so easy, literally. But of course, to touch a member of the opposite sex who is not your wife/husband or mahram such as close family, this is haraam. But still, it does not break your wudu.
:salam2:
Akhi you should know the proper evidence and then claim that people take the deen to extreme position.there are differences of opinion among scholars cause of the evidences from quran and hadith.and in no way they had wish to make islam harder. Its the evidence which lead them to have decision and not their hawa.
 

Yusuf1990

al-Inglezi
Wa'alaikum asalaam,
I am not claiming that scholars wish to make the Deen harder, I said people as in common Muslims who come up with such ideas - they hear things and assume and are therefore lead astray.
As for the difference among the scholars, we respect them and their opinions as they are far more knowledgable than us, although when correct and authentic evidence according to the Qur'an and Sunnah is brought foreward then we accept that regardless of the other opinions.
The above fatwa contains an important hadith on this question which was asked, and it is quite clear what the answer is.

Can you imagine the hardship if it broke your wudu? And this is just one among many other things that people become over concerned with... But no, rather the Speech of Allah:

'Allah intends for you ease, and does not want to make things difficult for you'
(Qur'an 2:185)

and

'Allah does not want to place you in difficulty'
(Qur'an 5:6)


May Allah have Mercy on us all, ameen.
 

Hard Rock Moslem

I'm your brother
'Allah intends for you ease, and does not want to make things difficult for you'
(Qur'an 2:185)

and

'Allah does not want to place you in difficulty'
(Qur'an 5:6)

The above verses from the Qura'n explained well about the issue here. Allah does not want to make things difficult for us but we and the scholars are the one making it difficult.

Scholars have different opinion about this. Imam Abu Hanifah rahmatullah says it will not cancel your wudhu if you are in contact with opposite sex who are not your mehram so long no nafs involve. Imam Shafee rahmatullah gave his opinion it will cancel your wudhu if you are in contact with the opposite sex (if direct touch their skin only). Some scholars says if you touch with intention of nafs then it will cancel your wudhu. If it was accidental touching, then it will not. You will know what is your intention.

Say you are doing tawaaf at Kaaba, suddenly someone from opposite sex step on your feet accidentally, will your wudhu nullified? Many scholars says no. Otherwise can you imagine how many times you have to take your wudhu again before you can complete your tawaaf?

Maybe someone can give some daleel (sorry I'm lazy to find).
 

daywalker

Junior Member
Say you are doing tawaaf at Kaaba, suddenly someone from opposite sex step on your feet accidentally, will your wudhu nullified? Many scholars says no. Otherwise can you imagine how many times you have to take your wudhu again before you can complete your tawaaf?
:salam2:
shafii scholars compromise at this issue and do talfeeq with maliki scholars.
 

daywalker

Junior Member
Can you imagine the hardship if it broke your wudu?
:salam2: i do wudu almost before every salah, what is the hardship is there akhi? dont compair with hardship but with the evidence inshallah. there are people outside for whom 4 rakah is also hardship.
 

Yusuf1990

al-Inglezi
As-salaamu'alaikum.

I brought foreward evidence from Qur'an, Sunnah and consenus of the Scholars, so far everyone who opposes that view has brought nothing foreward except their own opinions - and Islam is built on evidence and proof, not on whims or desires.

And Allah knows best.
 

daywalker

Junior Member
That's an inaccurate translation.
:salam2: True , mostly the word has been translated as TOUCHED, and imam shafii(rh) has taken the Dhahiri meaning of the word.
As-salaamu'alaikum.

I brought foreward evidence from Qur'an, Sunnah and consenus of the Scholars, so far everyone who opposes that view has brought nothing foreward except their own opinions - and Islam is built on evidence and proof, not on whims or desires.
AKhi none has opposed the view which you present. one brother adviced not to say others proof as "extreme" allthough they have evidence on their side, and another brother said that the word accurate is TOUCHED and not getting CONTACT with wife. and here is your evidence of scholar making islam extreme, though i dont follow shafii school of fiqh.

“O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.” [5:7 Yusuf Ali translation]
The key words in this verse used by the Shafi’i school are:

أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء


“…or ye have been in contact with women…”

They maintain that the word “lamastum”, translated here as ‘contact’ is touching by the hand. Imām Ash-Shāfi’ī stated in Al-Umm, “Lams (touching/contact) is done by the hand.” Their opponents disagree and argue that it is reference to coitus. That however is not our discussion. What is their proof that “lamastum – contact” means with the hand? Firstly, the Shafi’is recite this without the elongation of the Alif after the lam. So it is recited as: لمستم (lamastum). The literal meaning alludes to the touch that is less than coitus. Both recitations are reported authentically.

Their supporting proof is the authentic statement of Ibn ‘Umar that is reported by Imām Ash-Shāfi’ī in his “Al-Umm” that states,

أَخْبَرَنَا مَالِكٌ عَنْ ابْنِ شِهَابٍ عَنْ سَالِمِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ قُبْلَةُ الرَّجُلِ امْرَأَتَهُ وَجَسُّهَا بِيَدِهِ مِنْ الْمُلَامَسَةِ فَمَنْ قَبَّلَ امْرَأَتَهُ أَوْ جَسَّهَا بِيَدِهِ فَعَلَيْهِ الْوُضُوءُ

Imām Ash-Shāfi’ī reports the following narration: Mālik reported from Ibn Shihāb from Sālim ibn Abdullah ibn Umar from his father (Abdullah ibn Umar) that he said,

“The man kissing his wife or touching her (note: the word is jass. ‘Aisha Bewley translates it as “fondles”. Indeed that is a probably meaning, but the Qāmūs also says “touch” is synonymous wallahu ‘alim) with his hand is from “the one who touches (lams), and so whoever kisses or touches his woman with his hand then upon him is wudhu’.”1
Imām Al-Bayhaqi states after this report, “In the report of Ibn Bukayr it states,

فَقَدْ وَجَبَ عَلَيْهِ الْوُضُوءُ
“…Then wudhu’ is obligatory upon him…”2

Imām Al-Bayhaqī reports in his Sunan Al-Kubrā the report from Ibn Mas’ūd that he said,

القبلة من اللمس وفيها الوضوء، واللمس ما دون الجماع

“Kissing is from touching (lams), and regarding it is wudhu’. And Lams (touching) is whatever is less than sexual intercourse.”3

In another narration:

أَخْبَرَنَا أَبُو عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْحَافِظُ وَأَبُو سَعِيدِ بْنُ أَبِى عَمْرٍو قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الْعَبَّاسِ : مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ يَعْقُوبَ حَدَّثَنَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ مَرْزُوقٍ حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ عُمَرَ عَنْ شُعْبَةَ عَنْ مُخَارِقٍ عَنْ طَارِقِ بْنِ شِهَابٍ أَنَّ عَبْدَ اللَّهِ يَعْنِى ابْنَ مَسْعُودٍ قَالَ فِى قَوْلِهِ تَعَالَى (أَوْ لاَمَسْتُمُ النِّسَاءَ) قَوْلاً مَعْنَاهُ مَا دُونَ الْجِمَاعِ.


“Ibn Mas’ūd said regarding the words of Allah “…Or coming into contact with women…” ‘It is what is less than sexual intercourse.’”4

Imām Al-Bayhaqī used as proof the hadīth of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa ‘alā Ālihi wa sallam) that is found in Sahīh Muslim,

اليد زناها اللمس

“The hands zinā (fornication) is touching.”

[The entire hadīth is: Abu Hurairah (radhiya allāhu ‘anhu) said: The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa ‘alā Ālihi wa sallam) said, "Allah has written the very portion of Zina which a man will indulge in. There will be no escape from it. The Zina of the eye is the (lustful) look, the Zina of the ears is the listening (to voluptuous songs or talk), the Zina of the tongue is (the licentious) speech, the Zina of the hand is the touch, the Zina of the feet is the walking (to the place where he intends to commit Zina), the heart yearns and desires and the private parts approve all that or disapprove it.” (Bukhārī and Muslim)]
The proof is that sexual intercourse is actually distinguished from the “lams / touching” of the hand. Therefore the Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa ‘alā Ālihi wa sallam) made a distinction between intercourse and ‘touching’ of the hands.

Another proof used by Imām Al-Bayhaqī in his Al-Kubrā is the story of the companion Mā’iz ibn Mālik that fornicated and came to the Nabi (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa ‘alā Ālihi wa sallam) and told him that he committed adultery. The Prophet turned away from several times, and finally asked him,

لَعَلَّكَ قَبَّلْتَ أَوْ لَمَسْتَ
“Maybe you kissed her or just touched her (lams).”5

This is proof that lams (touching) is what is less than sexual intercourse.

Imām Al-Bayhaqī also quotes the following narration from ‘Umar ibn Al Khattāb (radhiya allāhu ‘anhu wa ‘alayhis salām):

أَخْبَرَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْحَافِظُ أَخْبَرَنَا إِسْمَاعِيلُ بْنُ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ الْفَضْلِ بْنِ مُحَمَّدٍ الشَّعْرَانِىُّ حَدَّثَنَا جَدِّى حَدَّثَنَا إِبْرَاهِيمُ بْنُ حَمْزَةَ حَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ الْعَزِيزِ بْنُ مُحَمَّدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ يَعْنِى ابْنَ عَمْرِو بْنِ عُثْمَانَ عَنِ الزُّهْرِىِّ عَنْ سَالِمٍ عَنِ ابْنِ عُمَرَ أَنَّ عُمَرَ بْنَ الْخَطَّابِ رَضِىَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قَالَ : إِنَّ الْقُبْلَةَ مِنَ اللَّمْسِ فَتَوَضَّئُوا مِنْهَا.


‘Umar said, “Verily, kissing is from touching, so make wudhu’ from it.”6
 

Yusuf1990

al-Inglezi
As-salaamu'alaikum,

JazakAllahu khairan daywalker for the useful information regarding imam ash-Shafi'i's madhhaab.
Still, despite all of this I am convinced that it does not break wudu because of the hadith narrated from 'Aishah (radyiAllahu 'anha): 'The Prophet (sallAllahu 'alaihi wasalam) kissed one of his wives and then went out to pray and he did not perform wudu' - This is an authentic hadith, it was declared sahih by our Sheikh Al-Albani (rahimahullah).
And kissing is far more intimate than merely touching by the hand or the like.

I highly respect all the scholars of Islam, especially the great four imams, but we must always chose what is correct according to the Sunnah over what any imam, scholar, or student says. We follow Muhammad (sallAllahu 'alaihi wasalam) and no one else.
Just to bring to light what the great four imams said concerning their schools of thought:

Abu Hanifah - 'When a hadith is found to be sahih, then that is my madhhaab.'

Malik ibn Anas - 'Truely I am only a mortal; I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore look into my opinions; all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it. And all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.'

Shafi'i - 'In every issue where the people of narration find a report from the Messenger of Allah (sallAllahu 'alaihi wasalam) to be sahih which is contrary to what I have said, then I take my saying back, whether during my life or after my death.'

Ahmad ibn Hanbal - 'Do not follow my opinion, neither follow the opinion of Malik, nor Shafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took.'

And these are literally just a few of their many sayings on this matter.
So regardless of what the different madhaahab say on this (touching a women breaking wudu), it is clear from the Book and the Sunnah that touching a women does not require wudu.

And Allah knows best...
 

daywalker

Junior Member
As-salaamu'alaikum,
JazakAllahu khairan daywalker for the useful information regarding imam ash-Shafi'i's madhhaab.Still, despite all of this I am convinced that it does not break wudu
:wasalam: akhi i didn´t post imam shafii(rh) post to convienced you, cause i am with your opinion in this matter. i posted his opinion to tell you that they hadn´t any wish to make Islam extreme, but its cause of evidences.
Just to bring to light what the great four imams said concerning their schools of thought:

Abu Hanifah - 'When a hadith is found to be sahih, then that is my madhhaab.'

Malik ibn Anas - 'Truely I am only a mortal; I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore look into my opinions; all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it. And all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.'

Shafi'i - 'In every issue where the people of narration find a report from the Messenger of Allah (sallAllahu 'alaihi wasalam) to be sahih which is contrary to what I have said, then I take my saying back, whether during my life or after my death.'

Ahmad ibn Hanbal - 'Do not follow my opinion, neither follow the opinion of Malik, nor Shafi'i, nor Awzaa'i, nor Thawri, but take from where they took.'

And these are literally just a few of their many sayings on this matter.
akhi the explaination of imam nawawi was bit clear for my understanding of this literally quotation.

Commenting on these statements, Imaam Nawawi (rahmatullah alayh) says:

"This which Imaam Shaafi has said does not mean that everyone who sees a Saheeh Hadith should say: 'This is the Math-hab of Shaafi, thus practising on the zaahir (text/external or apparent meaning) of the Hadith.

This most certainly applies to only such a person who has the rank of Ijtihaad in the Math-hab. It is a condition that he overwhelmingly believes that Imaam Shaafi was unaware of this Hadith or he was unaware of its authenticity. And this is possible only after having made a research of all the books of Shaafi and similar other books of the Ashaab of Shaafi, those who take (knowledge) from him, and others similar to these (books). This is indeed a difficult condition (to fulfil). Few are there who measure up to this (standard).

What we have explained has been made conditional because Imaam Shaafi had abandoned acting on the zaahir (text) of many Ahadith which he saw and knew. However by him was established proof for criticism in the Hadith or its abrogation or its specific circumstance or its interpretation, etc. (hence he was constrained to leave aside the hadith)."


Shaikh Abu Amr (rahmatullah alayh) said:

"It is not easy to act according to the apparent (zaahir) text of what Imaam Shaafi said. It is not lawful for (even) every Faqeeh (qualified Aalim who has deep insight) to act independently with that which he opines to be proof from the Hadith."

Discussing this statement in his treatise, Shaikh Yusuf Bin Ismaail Nibhaani says:

"Verily, the statement: 'When the Hadith has been authenticated, then it is my Math-hab' has been narrated from each one of these four Imaams who were free from personal opinion. The audience to whom this statement ('When the Hadith is Saheeh it is my Math-hab.') was directed, is only his (the Imaam's) Ashaab (the Fuqaha of his Math-hab) who were great and illustrious Aimmah fully qualified in the rational and narrational sciences (of the Deen). (And the statement is directed to) those who came after these illustrious Aimmah among the great Ulama of his Math-hab, those who were the Ahlut Tarjeeh (a high category of Ulama). All of them who were the Haafizeen of the Hadith of Rasulullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) were fully aware of the daleels (proofs) of all the Math-habs.........These are the ones whom the Imaam (of the Math-hab) had directed his statement: 'When the Hadith is Saheeh, it is my Math-hab.'....Verily, they (these great Fuqaha) are able to reconcile between the Hadith from which the Imaam had derived proof, and the (latest) Hadith which was established as authentic after the Imaam. They (these illustrious Fuqaha) can see which of the two Hadiths is more authentic, stronger and which of the two Hadiths is the later one so that the later one can be the Naasikh (abrogator) for the earlier one."
(Hujjatullah alal Aalameen)
 

daywalker

Junior Member
Then they are wrong because that recitation differs from the prevalent one. Once you open the door to varying the reading of a word from the Quran you open the door to changing it, God forbid.
:salam2:
akhi as you know there are 7 kind of style of reciting quran. for any furthar doubts, try to ask any shafii scholar inshallah about it.
 
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